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Thread: Vman's '33 Hot Rod Design Ideas

  1. #81
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    If you need to cool your cranium off a bit...............



    And a subtle difference.............an old Lead-Sled Kustom guys trick...........rounded the lower rear door corner.



    David......any little subtleties or ideas you want to use, feel free. I think I'm pretty good at interpreting other's thoughts when they're presented in such a clear way as your stuff above. That 'side-slash" feature is pure Zipper Motors inspired and I'm guessing that's where your head was at too? Good way of venting the engine bay without going full open sided.
    Last edited by MT-ED; 02-21-2014 at 12:28 PM.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT-ED View Post
    If you need to cool your cranium off a bit...............

    lol....now put a duvall windshield on that and add a hot girl and go cruisin' on friday night!

    Windrush.......I like that

    ok back to working on the woody I almost said working on my woody, but I think that might not been taken right........lol

    David
    Last edited by Vman7; 02-21-2014 at 01:17 PM.

  3. #83
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    Basically, that is a frameless Duval. Just the pillars with the glass slotted in. Rubber U channel to seal at the scuttle. Light and airy.

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT-ED View Post
    Basically, that is a frameless Duval. Just the pillars with the glass slotted in. Rubber U channel to seal at the scuttle. Light and airy.
    I had to go back and look at the orig. I see it now, you added the ctr pillar. I love Duvall winshields. I wonder if the one Speedway sells would work on a FFR 33.

  5. #85
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    Well the hideously expensive Speedway Duvall is made for a '34 cowl. Even if an original '34 is the same profile, the FF body is 3" wider than a stocker, so I think that's a no.

    If you Google "Duvall Windshield" you'll find some DIY articles on making your own. One guy built one for $15

    Windshield porn.



    Last edited by MT-ED; 02-21-2014 at 03:11 PM.

  6. #86
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    MT-ED, That's right, I forgot that the FFR 33 is 3" wider.....arrrhhh..

    Interesting that you posted those pics.....that bottom one I just saw today after I did another search on Duvall windshield. I noticed more on ppl building their own, then on ppl actually selling them. Boy do I need to learn how to weld.

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT-ED View Post
    If you need to cool your cranium off a bit...............



    And a subtle difference.............an old Lead-Sled Kustom guys trick...........rounded the lower rear door corner.



    David......any little subtleties or ideas you want to use, feel free. I think I'm pretty good at interpreting other's thoughts when they're presented in such a clear way as your stuff above. That 'side-slash" feature is pure Zipper Motors inspired and I'm guessing that's where your head was at too? Good way of venting the engine bay without going full open sided.
    I like the lead sled trick with the door, see that a lot on custom cars. Actually I didn't get the idea for the "side-slash" from Zipper Motors, but I do like their's a lot, especially the tilt front. I got the idea for the "Side Slash" from looking at scallop paint schemes and the '33 Famous Double Dozen car.

    David
    Last edited by Vman7; 02-21-2014 at 06:02 PM.

  8. #88
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    I had to go Google the '33 Famous Double Dozen car. OMG! That is gorgeous!



    This is another one built by Steve's Auto Restoration.

    Last edited by MT-ED; 02-21-2014 at 06:23 PM.

  9. #89
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    MT-ED, I think that one is called something else. I gather you saw pictures of the "Double Dozen" on google, it's the roadster that is Black and Red. Chris Ito did the design, he does designs for SAR. That's Dodge pickup, that thing is awesome, it ended up being black if I remember right. You sure we aren't related....lol, we sure think alike

    update: I had to go back to SAR. That pickup is a 33 Dodge called the "Dodge Ram Rod" and it's in a dark purple.

    another update: The picture on top in post #88 was based on the "double dozen", but the customer decided not to go through with it. It's now for sale, not sure if it has been sold or not.

    David
    Last edited by Vman7; 02-21-2014 at 07:18 PM.

  10. #90
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    My bad..........I missed the hood scoop which isn't on..............



    I realized the smooooooth look concept is very reminiscent of a Bobby Alloway Speedstar, but that still has most of the original style reveals at waist and bottom..

    Last edited by MT-ED; 02-22-2014 at 12:36 PM.

  11. #91
    Senior Member Tom Veale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vman7 View Post
    MT-ED, I forgot to address the woody. As far as doing it in fiberglass then making it look like wood.
    Over the years I've had some "wood grain" work done by Woodgrain by Estes. The company was still in Florida when I last used them, but it is now in Indiana.

    http://forums.aaca.org/f158/woodgrai...-a-241970.html

    This might be a possibility for a lookalike woody. Make it out of glass and then have it done by these guys. They can do dash panels, door panels, and essentially any kind of trim. You nearly need to get out a pen knife to find out if it's really wood.

    Thanks for keeping up the great ideas for the '33. I've also looked at the idea of attempting to fit on something like the Scarab or Devin bodies to the FFR 33 chassis.
    Devin SS
    https://www.google.com/search?q=devi...8%3B1024%3B680

    Scarab
    https://www.google.com/search?q=scar...F%3B1115%3B793

    TV
    Last edited by Tom Veale; 02-25-2014 at 06:13 PM.

  12. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT-ED View Post
    I read the Speedster part with interest and this is what my mind's eye made of it................
    That's your A2C roof design. Note raised doors for side-pipe clearance.
    A few more changes are needed to solve swatch watch type issues on the 33.
    1. The front of the door needs to move back more in line with the dash. This would make it much easier to install a remove-able front hoop and bring it down through the dash and land on the frame. Couple that with the new roof design by Dan Ruth that uses the same windshield with and without the top.

    2. We need a running board option to cover those lake pipes so the full fender crowd gets their body options as well.
    DB

  13. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by myjones View Post
    1. The front of the door needs to move back more in line with the dash. This would make it much easier to install a remove-able front hoop and bring it down through the dash and land on the frame. Couple that with the new roof design by Dan Ruth that uses the same windshield with and without the top.
    Only problem I see there is the fact that you would destroy the one design element that gives such wonderful flow to cars of the 33 and onward era in the A-pillar area. Look at the 33's, the double-dozen design and the Dodge pickup above. If you move the front of the door back you get a big wide side to the cowl and the fore-shortening of the door will make ingress and egress more difficult. The door shut won't line up with the windshield pillars and if you did modify the roof to align you'd end up with a disproportionately short roof too which is beyond ugly. I tried modding one of my renderings and believe me it looked hideous.

  14. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT-ED View Post
    Only problem I see there is the fact that you would destroy the one design element that gives such wonderful flow to cars of the 33 and onward era in the A-pillar area. Look at the 33's, the double-dozen design and the Dodge pickup above. If you move the front of the door back you get a big wide side to the cowl and the fore-shortening of the door will make ingress and egress more difficult. The door shut won't line up with the windshield pillars and if you did modify the roof to align you'd end up with a disproportionately short roof too which is beyond ugly. I tried modding one of my renderings and believe me it looked hideous.
    Thanks for trying that out. The ingress/egress issue would be a small price for the other gains. Sounds like they would just have to increase the overlap area so it still looked like the door opening was that long. While you were horsing around with that image did you happen to do a raised running board rendering ;>)
    DB

  15. #95
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    I've considered making these windshields at a reasonable price but with the soft top and the hard top not able to be used without modification, I decided there probably wouldn't be enough interest to make it worthwhile.

  16. #96
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    Wow! more reading I have to do......lol Let me read through the new posts and see what I can address

  17. #97
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    MT-ED In post #90, yeah see what I mean on that "Double Dozen" and as well with that next picture you posted. Also I love the rake on both, but with the FFR 33 there isn't and won't be much of a rake, which in turn give me a slight problem with slopping down the hood, but nothing I can't figure out.

    Tom Thanks for the website on the faux woodgrain. His prices aren't too bad either. The main thing I am concerned about, is if say a wood design is to be done with the so called faux woodgrain, like the old "tin woodies", would still have to do the prototype out of wood to make the fiberglass mold, which is great if that was the only design. What I kind of have in mind is being able to change the accents on the panels depending on what someone would like. It's kind of a toss up between wood or fiberglass with the faux woodgrain, both are good ways to go. I guess it would come down to expense and work involved in which way to go.

    As far as the other body styles you mentioned. I have thought about that as well, just with more of a Morgan body style. I would think the Devin and Scarab, both very cool btw, would work better on the 65 coupe chassis, unless of course the wheelbase is closer to the 33.

    myjones/MT-ED I agree with you MT-ED, about moving the door idea, I believe that it would change the looks way to much. I see what you are taking about Dale, about moving the inside, but leaving the outside of the door where it is. I think it would be better to just remake the bottom of the door up higher with a new doorjam for the sidepipes.

    myjones Dan Ruth did a excellent job on fabrication of his 2 tops. I remember when I was helping him design those tops. If you have see his build thread over at the other place you can see how the top progressed from Dan's idea to the finished product.

    The full fendered with the sidepipes inside the running boards is in the works.

    Tim That would be cool if you did the windshields, but like you said about if there isn't enough interest, would it be worthwhile.

    I am debating about taking a break from the woody for a bit or not. For some crazy reason I keep getting off track on that speedster....lol

    David

  18. #98
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    Moving the bottom of the door up is easy. Gave it some thought when I did my side pipes. I elected to do it in a different way but the shortening of the doors is easy and no work would be required in the door jam. Just a little filler panel. Much easier to do than what I did but I wanted the pipe recessed into the side of the car.

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Whittaker View Post
    Moving the bottom of the door up is easy. Gave it some thought when I did my side pipes. I elected to do it in a different way but the shortening of the doors is easy and no work would be required in the door jam. Just a little filler panel. Much easier to do than what I did but I wanted the pipe recessed into the side of the car.
    That's good to know, thanks Tim I had to go back and check out your thread, not here but at the other one. I now remember that you were the one who did the exhaust through the door and modified the door. I was trying to remember who was the one who did that a few weeks back.

    David

  20. #100
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    Speaking of exhaust. I would love to see if there is a way to do a 4" DIA exhaust coming out of the body just behind the door like in the orig. rendering that Dave S. liked, which was one of the things that inspired Dave S. to do the '33. Not sure if the chassis is in the way or not.


  21. #101
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    I looked at the logistics David, but without a car in front of me I can't give a definitive answer. Tried to find someone's photo that would give a better idea and came up with this one from Nick's build log. The orange arrow shows the route such a pipe would need to take.............tight.



    Now looking at chassis pics there's only one position that misses chassis tubes and that's indicated by the orange dot.



    Transpose that to the body and it comes out off-center in the panel which would look weird.



    You can't bring a big pipe any further forward because of the main door hinge support vertical member. Only way I can see of achieving a look like the original rendering would be to make the outlet tip much bigger than the actual exhaust tubing and offset where it joins the tip to effectively move the tip forward and center it within the panel.

    Like this................

    Ideally though, it still needs to be lower and I'm not sure that's possible with the convergence of chassis tubes near that point.
    Last edited by MT-ED; 02-26-2014 at 08:55 PM.

  22. #102
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    MT, That'd work. Same thing I did with the side pipes. As soon as they penetrate the door, they go down to 2.5" all the way forward to the headers.

    Note the sway bar in the rendering. I'm doing something similar.
    Last edited by Tim Whittaker; 02-26-2014 at 08:48 PM.

  23. #103
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    Just discovered these from the mind-bogglingly talented Bo Zolland................











    Gorgeous engine bay side-panel design.





    Martin.

  24. #104
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  25. #105
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    MT-ED I see what you mean about the exhaust, yeah the chassis is too much in the way. Now for the pickup or even the tudor could at least hide the exhaust tips in the body some, since the that part of the chassis would be gone.

    Bo Zolland does some great stuff, he is mostly noted for his woodenboat designs. The Black car with the modified '37 grille, is the inspiration for my Wedge Design. The pictures before that (the green one etc.) gave me a few ideas for another top and the rear.

    David

  26. #106
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    Custom 33 Woody Preview

    Well I have the Custom 33 Woody at least to a point of showing a preview.

    I removed the grooves that went all around the wood frame, to give it more of a smooth look. Moved the beltline out to be even with the body beltline. Reshaped the door to reflect more of the orig door, set it back some on the top section, the hinges are hiden like the orig FFR ones. Slanted the rear side window on the B pillar. Brought up the rear roll pan area and gave it a little more of a curve, this would allow more room for tail lights, exhaust, Lic Plate etc., plus the top edge of the roll pan area is more inline with where the floor would be. Also the rear wood frame that goes from top to bottom was rounded over.

    Not done yet I still have a lot of shading, color correction and little details I still have to do and go over everything with a fine tooth comb so to speak.

    The roof is just a mockup for right now, until I see how much the visor should hang over the front, I will probably do the roof near the end.

    I am thinking of this one being more of base for the woody, even over the more traditonal one I did for post #64.

    This version would be the base, then you could add the accent panels and accent trim of your liking. I am going to do a few accent panels and trim to give some ideas of what is possible. Could even do some etched and or frosted glass.


    33 Woody C SV Preview.JPG

    More to come....

    enjoy!
    David
    Last edited by Vman7; 03-19-2014 at 10:44 PM.

  27. #107
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    oh btw, some might think at first the the rear fender hangs down below the wood body, but it actually doesn't it is an illusion, if you look at the front of the rear fender you can see the angle from the outside to the inside of the fender, same goes for the rear of the rear fender, it lines up with the bottom of the wood body so when looking from behind it is straight across.

    I am debating once I am through with this version of doing a so called "stubby" version, which is shorter in length and has the orig FFR rear full fenders. I came across a so called "stubby" woody on the internet and it got me thinking.

    David

  28. #108
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    Very cool David. Couple of questions. Do you imagine the roof coming off leaving a roadster pickup look? And the fuel tank location over the rear axle?

  29. #109
    Senior Member esff32's Avatar
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    I'm in the same boat with the exhaust. I really like the look of the side exit exhaust but Erik Hansen has said he got a tremendous amount of exhaust in the cabin when the hard top was on. Anyone see an issue running the exhaust to an exit point located above the rear wheel. The exhaust would essentially run between the body and the side sheet metal in the trunk. I would like to use something like the photo, maybe as a trim plate. Thoughts?


  30. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by flynntuna View Post
    Very cool David. Couple of questions. Do you imagine the roof coming off leaving a roadster pickup look? And the fuel tank location over the rear axle?
    I haven't really thought about a roadster pickup version. I have thought of a pickup version though, also a so called military/utility version where the top section has a canvas top, also where just the sides rollup. Think of the Kooblekar and the VW thing.

    The fuel tank would be aft of the rear axle like on the tudor version.

    David

  31. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by esff32 View Post
    I'm in the same boat with the exhaust. I really like the look of the side exit exhaust but Erik Hansen has said he got a tremendous amount of exhaust in the cabin when the hard top was on. Anyone see an issue running the exhaust to an exit point located above the rear wheel. The exhaust would essentially run between the body and the side sheet metal in the trunk. I would like to use something like the photo, maybe as a trim plate. Thoughts?
    If I am reading this right, you are talking about the exhaust exit about the rear tire? hmm... not sure if there is enough room for that or not, and not so sure just how well it would look. I'll have to do a quick mockup or something.

  32. #112
    Senior Member esff32's Avatar
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    Yeah it wouldn't be centered on the axle however it might look decent. It essentially be between the radius of the inner fender and the body line. I'm not sure of the room either.

  33. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by esff32 View Post
    Yeah it wouldn't be centered on the axle however it might look decent. It essentially be between the radius of the inner fender and the body line. I'm not sure of the room either.
    I'll see what I can do, when I take a break from the woody.

  34. #114
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    I think I am going to take a break from the woody, just a little break. Today my eyes are going buggy on me from looking at all the detail work going into the woody.....

    I had an epiphany this weekend on the Speedster version also about a so called "boattail" version, only that the center rear section on the boattail really doesn't come to a point. So I am kinda of revved up about working on the speedster and this new idea about a so called "boattail" versions.

    I will get back to the Roadster/coupe pickup at some point

    I have so many ideas to share with everybody, I think my head is going to run of of storage room at some point....lol

    David
    Last edited by Vman7; 03-24-2014 at 09:46 PM.

  35. #115
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    Excellent digital chainsaw work David! I like that a lot. I took one look at the original and thought it needed a leaning B-pillar. That, plus the rear end lean gives an impression of movement.

    Etched glass............once again you have an idea I've been into before. I acid-etched the windows on my Custom Van back in the 70's and did the glass sunroof, (on the outside) with the name of the van in reverse, so it read the right way from inside. Easy to do using vinyl as a mask and cutting out with a pointy crafty knife. The acid I used was like a wet paste and would cling to a vertical surface, so doing the door windows in-situ was easy. Left it about 20 mins, then washed off with a sponge and lots of water.

    I can see some striping, Palm trees..........Tikki head gear knob

    Last edited by MT-ED; 03-25-2014 at 02:13 PM.

  36. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT-ED View Post
    Excellent digital chainsaw work David! I like that a lot. I took one look at the original and thought it needed a leaning B-pillar. That, plus the rear end lean gives an impression of movement.

    Etched glass............once again you have an idea I've been into before. I acid-etched the windows on my Custom Van back in the 70's and did the glass sunroof, (on the outside) with the name of the van in reverse, so it read the right way from inside. Easy to do using vinyl as a mask and cutting out with a pointy crafty knife. The acid I used was like a wet paste and would cling to a vertical surface, so doing the door windows in-situ was easy. Left it about 20 mins, then washed off with a sponge and lots of water.

    I can see some striping, Palm trees..........Tikki heads
    Thanks not quite done yet, but getting there.

    lol....I was thinking of the palm trees to. I have been trying to find some dolphins for the glass.

    Could do wood inlays or some marquetry as well, say like some flying ducks or dophins with a sunset etc. on the panels. I wa even thinking could even do scallops like in a paint scheme only in marquetry.

    David

  37. #117
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    I could see a mixed etched/sand-blasted (to give a two-tone texture) breaking wave that follows the rear edge of the side window and breaks forward........dolphins riding its bow.

    With your skills anythings possible in the wood department. Your overall design is very smooth though, so anything you did like that would need to be real subtle. I could see an inlaid belt-line pinstripe in some exotic hardwood with a subtle little Dolphin at the rear end, leaping forward. Made in the same wood.



    'Course, you realize that if you put dolphins on it then you have to keep it squeaky clean right?

  38. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT-ED View Post
    Excellent digital chainsaw work David!
    Martin
    Are you looking for a trip to the woodshed, picking on David's skills again
    Etched glass in a custom van, I'll bet you even had the mushroom windows and shag carpet in it.
    Dale

  39. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by myjones View Post
    Martin
    Are you looking for a trip to the woodshed, picking on David's skills again
    Etched glass in a custom van, I'll bet you even had the mushroom windows and shag carpet in it.
    Dale
    Actually, I built the entire interior of that van which entailed a lot of wood-working. I didn't have shag carpet, it was more a sculptured pile. A bay-window, but no mushroom bubble windows.

    Didn't need them............I worked for the Government so I was the mushroom. Kept in the dark, fed B.S.

  40. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by MT-ED View Post
    I could see a mixed etched/sand-blasted (to give a two-tone texture) breaking wave that follows the rear edge of the side window and breaks forward........dolphins riding its bow.

    With your skills anythings possible in the wood department. Your overall design is very smooth though, so anything you did like that would need to be real subtle. I could see an inlaid belt-line pinstripe in some exotic hardwood with a subtle little Dolphin at the rear end, leaping forward. Made in the same wood.



    'Course, you realize that if you put dolphins on it then you have to keep it squeaky clean right?
    I had to pull up the picture to see the detail you did...

    yeah down here in Florida, you have to keep it clean! (looking out door at pickup truck, thinking when I washed it last)....lol

    David
    Last edited by Vman7; 03-26-2014 at 03:43 PM.

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