Electric Fan turn-on temp

[xavier296]

Started my coyote engine this weekend and got the engine up to temp. I remember reading that the electric fan, when controlled by the stock computer, turns on based on inferred coolant temperature based on cylinder head temperature. My fan comes on at 165 on my guage, which is wayyy too early in my opinion. It should be more like 190 degrees. I have some ideas to raise the temp via another temperature probe, but wanted to get an idea of when others are seeing the fan come on.

Thanks, Aaron

[ClemsonS197]

Mine comes on at 190.

[Slider]

Interesting discussion... Had my car in being tuned today... The fan NEVER came on (We shut down the engine before it ran too long at about 210). All the wiring for the fan appears to be as it is supposed to be. As I think back on how I did the wiring, and after reviewing the instructions, it appears that essentially the orange wire runs from the fan motor, to the post in the black control box, effectively eliminating the FF harness and fuse block (thus why the fuse and relay were removed). Does this sound correct? Just trying to figure out if I can run a new "orange" wire from the fan to the post in the coyote black box rather than open every harness again. Does my line of thinking make sense?

(And yes, we did verify that the fan motor is properly grounded)

[bansheekev]

Depends on where your gauge sensor is in the cooling path. Where did you mount your gauge sensor? The Coyote has a seperate sensor used by the controls pack to trigger the fan on and off based on the temperature at that sensor.

Clemson, if I recall correct you put your gauge sensor in the hot side of the heater hose run, correct? I have mine mounted into the block next to the oil filter as per the FFR instructions. I'm not at first start yet so can't comment but seems like it could be a consideration. If you have an OBD tool that can read parameters, you could see what temperature the computer is sensing when the fan comes on.

Kevin

Started my coyote engine this weekend and got the engine up to temp. I remember reading that the electric fan, when controlled by the stock computer, turns on based on inferred coolant temperature based on cylinder head temperature. My fan comes on at 165 on my guage, which is wayyy too early in my opinion. It should be more like 190 degrees. I have some ideas to raise the temp via another temperature probe, but wanted to get an idea of when others are seeing the fan come on.

Thanks, Aaron

[bansheekev]

Slider,

Did you run the Orange and Black wires from the Controls Pack directly to the fan + and -? Or, did you splice into the FF harness? If you ran the Orange and Black directly it should be fine. If you didn't, and you spliced into the FF harness, let me know... I went through some trial and error to get it to work using the Controls Pack Orange wire as a 12V trigger to the FF harness relay to allow me to use the FF harness wiring for the fan.

Was your 210 degree measurement from the dash gauge? If so, where is your gauge sensor located?

Kevin

Interesting discussion... Had my car in being tuned today... The fan NEVER came on (We shut down the engine before it ran too long at about 210). All the wiring for the fan appears to be as it is supposed to be. As I think back on how I did the wiring, and after reviewing the instructions, it appears that essentially the orange wire runs from the fan motor, to the post in the black control box, effectively eliminating the FF harness and fuse block (thus why the fuse and relay were removed). Does this sound correct? Just trying to figure out if I can run a new "orange" wire from the fan to the post in the coyote black box rather than open every harness again. Does my line of thinking make sense?

(And yes, we did verify that the fan motor is properly grounded)

[ClemsonS197]

Clemson, if I recall correct you put your gauge sensor in the hot side of the heater hose run, correct? I have mine mounted into the block next to the oil filter as per the FFR instructions. I'm not at first start yet so can't comment but seems like it could be a consideration. If you have an OBD tool that can read parameters, you could see what temperature the computer is sensing when the fan comes on.

Kevin

Kevin,

I used the Ford Racing harness for fan control. The Ron Francis harness has nothing to do with the fan on my car. Also, the gauge pulls temp on the inlet to the heater, which always has flow. How the Ford Racing computer turns on the fan is voodoo to me. Must be a sensor on the engine harness as nothing I did allows communication.

[Slider]

Hi. So I followed the instructions from the FF Coyote Installation guide. So I spliced into the FF Harness, but when I think this all the way through, while I used the Ron Francis wires in reality I cut the FF fuse block and relay out of the equation. So what I'm thinking now is that I remove the orange wire that is currently hooked up at the fan and the Control box, and run a new "orange" wire straight from the fan to the control box. That way I would eliminate any confusion along the way. I've got the fan grounded so that should be fine. Does that make sense? Second, is there any way I can test the fan without running it up to temp to make sure I've got it wired correctly?

As for where the temp measurement for the dash gauge is, that is exactly where FF suggests in their Coyote Instruction guide.

Did you run the Orange and Black wires from the Controls Pack directly to the fan + and -? Or, did you splice into the FF harness? If you ran the Orange and Black directly it should be fine. If you didn't, and you spliced into the FF harness, let me know... I went through some trial and error to get it to work using the Controls Pack Orange wire as a 12V trigger to the FF harness relay to allow me to use the FF harness wiring for the fan.

Was your 210 degree measurement from the dash gauge? If so, where is your gauge sensor located?

Kevin[/QUOTE]

[Slider]

Clemson... I read somewhere that the Coyote uses a built in Infrared sensor that feeds the data back to the computer. I can't recall where the Coyote sensor is located, but A quick google search would probably solve that question.

Kevin,

I used the Ford Racing harness for fan control. The Ron Francis harness has nothing to do with the fan on my car. Also, the gauge pulls temp on the inlet to the heater, which always has flow. How the Ford Racing computer turns on the fan is voodoo to me. Must be a sensor on the engine harness as nothing I did allows communication.

[bansheekev]

If I understand you correctly, you used the FF harness wires to the fan but cut them before the fuse box to take the FF relay out if the circuit and connected them to the post in the power distribution box for the controls pack. If that's the case, just using the orange wire in the coyote harness marked cooling fan to wire the fan and connecting the orange wire/ring terminal called out in the controls pack instructions at the power distribution block would probably be your best bet.

I used the orange cooling fan wire in the controls pack harness as a 12v trigger wire to control the relay in the FF harness. The coyote controls pack basically became an automatic version of the optional manual dash fan switch called out in the FF wiring harness instructions. You wind up with two relays in series (the one in the controls pack power distribution box triggering the one in the FF fuse box).

You can obviously test the fan by itself but bringing it up to temp is the only way to test the automatic on-off.

Kevin

Kevin

[Slider]

Thanks Kevin. Is there a particular reason you went with the two relays? I understand electricity to a certain degree, so am probably missing something here. It would seem pretty simple to do either way that you describe. I'd tried the FF instructions, which either didn't work, or i messed up (Probably my fault). I'm just looking for the cleanest way to fix it now, and hoping to NOT have to unwind all the wires to figure out where I messed up. I basically want to eliminate what I had tried (cut both ends of the wire) and then run a new wire from the controls box to the fan, leaving the old wire in place, but not connected to anything. Make sense?

If I understand you correctly, you used the FF harness wires to the fan but cut them before the fuse box to take the FF relay out if the circuit and connected them to the post in the power distribution box for the controls pack. If that's the case, just using the orange wire in the coyote harness marked cooling fan to wire the fan and connecting the orange wire/ring terminal called out in the controls pack instructions at the power distribution block would probably be your best bet.

I used the orange cooling fan wire in the controls pack harness as a 12v trigger wire to control the relay in the FF harness. The coyote controls pack basically became an automatic version of the optional manual dash fan switch called out in the FF wiring harness instructions. You wind up with two relays in series (the one in the controls pack power distribution box triggering the one in the FF fuse box).

You can obviously test the fan by itself but bringing it up to temp is the only way to test the automatic on-off.

Kevin

Kevin

[bansheekev]

Yes makes total sense. Your setup would then be identical to Clemson's which is proven.

For me my over analyzing engineer brain probably got the best of me. I went the double relay route so that if a fuse blew it would be the one in the FF fuse panel which is easy to get to under the steering wheel. Getting to the fuse in the power distribution box for the controls pack is going to be difficult for my car with a under dash filler panel in the way and a heater/glovebox behind the dash. I also wanted a clean clutter free engine bay and the FF wiring is right there so why not use it... This was my thought pattern in deciding.

I should have the computer mounted and the rest of the controls pack wiring finished by the weekend. The chassis wiring has been done for a whole and was already tested. Only about 6 more wires!

Now if I could just find a money tree to come up with the money to buy the transmission I would be good. Taxes hurt and I've been putting my wife and kids off on a vacation... But I'm so close! Frustrating...

Kevin

Thanks Kevin. Is there a particular reason you went with the two relays? I understand electricity to a certain degree, so am probably missing something here. It would seem pretty simple to do either way that you describe. I'd tried the FF instructions, which either didn't work, or i messed up (Probably my fault). I'm just looking for the cleanest way to fix it now, and hoping to NOT have to unwind all the wires to figure out where I messed up. I basically want to eliminate what I had tried (cut both ends of the wire) and then run a new wire from the controls box to the fan, leaving the old wire in place, but not connected to anything. Make sense?

[bansheekev]

BTW, what took me a little while to figure out with the FF harness in regard to the cooling fan circuit is that it is wired to use an automatic thermal switch and / or or a manual dash switch. To remove the thermal switch from the equation I had to wire it directly to ground. That way the FF cooling fan circuit worked only of 12v being put on the FF orange cooling fan wire in the dash harness designed for a dash override switch which is fed by the orange controls pack cooling fan wire.

I am so ready to be done with wiring and get back to mechanical stuff!

Kevin

Thanks Kevin. Is there a particular reason you went with the two relays? I understand electricity to a certain degree, so am probably missing something here. It would seem pretty simple to do either way that you describe. I'd tried the FF instructions, which either didn't work, or i messed up (Probably my fault). I'm just looking for the cleanest way to fix it now, and hoping to NOT have to unwind all the wires to figure out where I messed up. I basically want to eliminate what I had tried (cut both ends of the wire) and then run a new wire from the controls box to the fan, leaving the old wire in place, but not connected to anything. Make sense?

[bansheekev]

Oh, yeah i want dyno numbers!

[xavier296]

I installed the temperature guage sensor in the FF recommended location, at the block drain, and it seems to track with the 180 degree thermostat that comes stock in the coyote. I haven't driven yet, I'm waiting on other parts, but the engine reaches and then sits at 180-181. If others are seeing a 190 degree fan turn on, I need to figure out my problem. There is a small chance there is a big air bubble somewhere that is being read by the stock temperature guage and giving a high reading, causing the fan to turn on at 165.

Maybe I should ask this also: My cooling system took alittle more than 3 gallons of water, and I did remove the heater connection to ensure water filed up the engine. Did anyone use significantly more than that?

[Slider]

It's been a few months since I filled the system so I don't recall the exact amount, but 3 Gallons, with a heater, seems a little light. Again, take this info for what its worth as this was one of the measurements I did not write down, so I don't recall the exact amount used.

[stevemcwilliams]

4.3 gallons will fill a DOHC with a standard cobra radiator, heater and a Canton aluminum tank.

[32J]

Just had my Coyote Gen 3 dyno-tuned with a local mechanic. Engine is running great. However, I noticed that the radiator fan now comes on right away, even when the engine is cold. And it no longer turns off. It's controlled by the PCM. Before the tune, it came on at about 195°F and turned off at about 190F°, just like the Coyote fitment manual stated.

I attached an OBDII reader and no trouble-codes came up. Somehow, the 'inferred' engine coolant temperature is reading high enough to tell the PCM to keep the fan running. This morning I sent an email to the tuner and I hope to hear back from him within the week.

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this problem?
Just had my Coyote Gen 3 dyno-tuned with a local mechanic. Engine is running great. However, I noticed that the radiator fan now comes on right away, even when the engine is cold. And it no longer turns off. It's controlled by the PCM. Before the tune, it came on at about 195°F and turned off at about 190F°, just like the Coyote fitment manual stated.

I attached an OBDII reader and no trouble-codes came up. Somehow, the 'inferred' engine coolant temperature is reading high enough to tell the PCM to keep the fan running. This morning I sent an email to the tuner and I hope to hear back from him within the week.

Just wondering if anyone else has come across this problem?

[Fbird]

I am seeing my fan come on around 175 gauge temp. It stays on thereafter. It will hold at 180, 183 degrees sitting in the garage on an 80 degree day and not even heat up the lower radiator hose. I am hoping this is normal. Great cooling system. I have run it around the block and let it sit running and it will not go beyond 183 after 15 minutes idling sitting still.

I am used to my big Pontiac that increases in temperature much faster than this.

[AC Bill]

Just had my Coyote Gen 3 dyno-tuned with a local mechanic. Engine is running great. However, I noticed that the radiator fan now comes on right away, even when the engine is cold. And it no longer turns off. It's controlled by the PCM. Before the tune, it came on at about 195°F and turned off at about 190F°, just like the Coyote fitment manual stated.

Perhaps some wiring was "adjusted" by the mechanic. So the on/off of the cooling fan is controlled by the ignition switch?
Somehow the fan power is connected to an ignition switched power source, that's no longer controlled by the PCM. That, or the fan switch or relay is defective, (shorted), and stuck on?

[randrall]

Hi everybody! I have similar problem with my gen2 Coyote. The engine cooling fan turns on too early, at low temperature, and the controller displays error P0166, which indicates a temperature sensor error. Supposedly, updating the control software can help?

[Bob Brandle]

I too am having a problem with my Gen 2 Coyote's cooling fan operation.
My issue is that it never comes on.
It had been working a few months ago (only 5 months total running since late October 2023 Graduation and registration).
At normal driving here in "mid-Winter into Spring" Arizona, including stop lights, the engine temp stays in-band 180-190. However, if I get into a traffic jam and it's stop and go for more than say 5 minutes or upon entry into a car show que with similar stop and go crawl, the indicated coolant temp. starts to rise alarmingly, to over 212 even just over 220. Luckily, the traffic flows have started and very soon the coolant temp comes right back down to the 180-190 area.
I then realized that I don't believe that the fan is running at all. I haven't driven the car since, just a week now, as I'm trying to diagnose and fix the issue.
My Coyote/car is wired to use the Coyote Controls system to control the fan operation. I've checked the Coyote fuse box and the JC2 Cooling Fan Relay feed looks OK (visually the fuse-link is intact). I can't really check if the R2 Power Cooling Fan relay is functional, but physically on the outside it looks nominal.

Any thoughts?

[Lidodrip]

I too am having a problem with my Gen 2 Coyote's cooling fan operation.
My issue is that it never comes on.
It had been working a few months ago (only 5 months total running since late October 2023 Graduation and registration).
At normal driving here in "mid-Winter into Spring" Arizona, including stop lights, the engine temp stays in-band 180-190. However, if I get into a traffic jam and it's stop and go for more than say 5 minutes or upon entry into a car show que with similar stop and go crawl, the indicated coolant temp. starts to rise alarmingly, to over 212 even just over 220. Luckily, the traffic flows have started and very soon the coolant temp comes right back down to the 180-190 area.
I then realized that I don't believe that the fan is running at all. I haven't driven the car since, just a week now, as I'm trying to diagnose and fix the issue.
My Coyote/car is wired to use the Coyote Controls system to control the fan operation. I've checked the Coyote fuse box and the JC2 Cooling Fan Relay feed looks OK (visually the fuse-link is intact). I can't really check if the R2 Power Cooling Fan relay is functional, but physically on the outside it looks nominal.

Any thoughts?

As a first step, I would make sure the fan still works by powering it directly. Also, are you using any type of fan speed modulator (Maradyne, etc)? I had one of those go bad on me.

James

[Bob Brandle]

Thanks James.
I'll do a direct power wiring test of the fan.

FYI, I'm not using the FFR supplied electric fan, but a Flex-A-Lite Flex-Wave Electric Fan 128, with the idea or hope that it's quieter than the standard fan.

No Maradyne Controller yet, but actually I've got it 90% installed, just not the wires connected. I may connect it up once the normal fan controlling is verified and also see how loud it is.

Bob

[Bob Brandle]

FIXED !!!

After verifying that just the fan itself works, I next checked and noticed something just a bit odd looking about the interconnect connector that was close to the fan. It looked an uneven partially off-color white.
This connector was an ad-hoc addition of mine since the two fan wires and wire from the Coyote Computer and wire from the FFR chassis fuse box were cut leads, so one has to add the connector(s).

I disconnected this connector of mine, carefully took it apart and YEs, there had been a bad connection with one of the leads, a bit of arching/charring and thus likely broken continuity some time ago.

I replaced the old connector and all of the lead-end connectors to known compatible-paired ones and assembled it all together.

Note that I had actually NOT previously attached the dark-blue fan power wire from the FFR Fuse box, thinking that only the orange fan power lead from the Coyote computer was needed.
But, researching this issue I realized that when i charged my AC system and made it operational, that Dark-blue wire would need to be connected (also) to the fan power lead. So, I also accomplished that today.
Here in Arizona AC isn't needed from about November into April, after that YES.

I then went on a nice hours long drive, cruising thru Cave Creek, where, along with Scottsdale (& other places), Arizona Bike Week starts this week, lasting thru the weekend. Lots of looks obtained, but then the rumble and rolling thunder of a Harley or group do sound a bit like a V8 Cobra.

The fan ran like it should.

Bob