Darren and Thomas UK RHD 818S Build

[DJWalker]

I have been wondering whether to start a build thread and have decided today that it would be a good idea because this forum seems such an amazing source of help and information.

As a bit of an overview of our project, as the thread title would suggest, we are building an 818S in the UK. We are based near York, in the north of England. This will be a right hand drive car and will need to pass the UK’s pretty stringent IVA (Individual Vehicle Assessment) in order to be street legal. As far as I can tell a reasonable US comparison looks like the Californian requirements.

This is intended to be a father and son project, me Darren being the father and Thomas being my 12 year old son. I’ve always wanted to build a kit car and finally have the opportunity to achieve that dream. Being able to do that with my son over the next couple of years would be awesome.

This is possibly the first home build of an 818 in the UK, but the UK agent for Factory Five (Tech Autos) is about to start building an 818C early in 2022. This means we have never seen an 818 in the flesh and don’t have any fellow builders we can meet up with and compare notes.

We don’t have much experience so this is going to be a steep learning curve for us. Actually, we don’t have any experience at all, so it’s going to be the steepest of learning curves!

Our story is being documented bimonthly in the “Running Reports” section in the magazine Complete Kit Car and also on my Instagram account @dj_walker_818

[DJWalker]

A little bit about our donor.

We bought a 2005 Impreza WRX wagon that had the factory option Pro Performance Pack. Not sure if this a UK specific thing, but it’s a few tweaks and tuning by ProDrive that increases power to 261BHP. It had done 110k miles.

The car was unmodified, which is pretty unusual for an Impreza in the UK and was used as my daily driver for a couple of months before a part of the lower control arm snapped through corrosion.

Being a UK car, this car has seen plenty of wet weather and salty roads so was pretty rusty underneath. Bodywork was pretty perfect though, but that’s not much good to a kit car builder! 😄

The breakdown started Christmas 2020 and was pretty hard going with all the rusty fasteners. We learned an awful lot though. Now, almost 12 months later, the suspension arms, struts, spindles etc. are removed from the car but not fully separated, so there is still a bit of work to do there. I feel new parts are going to be needed for a lot of these bits.

[roadrashrob]

Welcome to the father son crew! I'll be interested how the UK process / build differs from the US. We received our Kit from FFR January 2021, and we're hoping to start fitting the body over the Christmas break. My 15 year old son loved the tear down of the donor, and the initial buildup of the frame. He loses patience during the engineering & problem solving steps when it is more thinking about what to do, and less doing. He seems eager to get on to mounting the body!

Good luck!

[Frank818]

OMG that is great! I never heard of 818's in the UK so I thought they weren't "registerable". Will you be plating it?

[DJWalker]

OMG that is great! I never heard of 818's in the UK so I thought they weren't "registerable". Will you be plating it?

Yes, this will be a street legal, registered car. It will have to be individually inspected before it can be registered and a plate issued. I think there are a few things that will need addressing, but it should be OK.

Things I can think of are:

Needs rear fog light(s)
Needs side repeaters
Proportioning valve needs to be non adjustable
Silencer (muffler) and cat restrictions

I think there will be other things that crop up through the build too, like edges in the cockpit that are not suitably “radiused”. Fortunately, the UK agent is going to be building a demo car soon and so he’ll be the real pioneer.

[DJWalker]

Managed to finish riveting the under cockpit aluminium this weekend. Pleased with how that has gone, though maybe the spacings are a bit close.

I noticed previously, when the chassis was initially delivered, that the driver's side footwell had a problem where pushing on the panel caused it to flex, go from convex to concave and cause an awful banging noise. A bit of research on this forum suggested that this is known as "oil canning" and can be fixed by heating and cooling the panel. There seems to be varying levels of success with that technique and some builders have had to weld beads on the underside, or rivet stiffening bars. I watched a few You Tube videos of how to solve this with the heat/cool method and decided to try that. I used a MAPP torch to heat a spot at the high point of the "bubble", hit it once with a hammer and punch and then cooled it with a wet rag. This worked really and the panel is now solid. The powdercoat is damaged on both sides of the heated spot, but that was expected. I'll probably paint over that at some point for rust protection.

I've attached a video demonstrating the noise:



Some pictures of the resulting powder coat after the fix:

Underside powdercoat.jpg Interior powdercoat.jpg Close up interior.jpg

[DJWalker]

After sorting the oil canning out, I rotated the car so that it is now the right way up and moved on to the next task in the manual, which is fitting the pedalbox mount bracket.

I can't see how the one I have will fit the space and mounting points that I have on my RHD chassis. There is a chance of course that I am being dim and trying to fit it the wrong way, but it looks like the mount points won't align with the corresponding holes in the bracket and the "sticky out bit" for the accelerator collides with the chassis rails.

Can anyone here tell me whether I need a right-hand drive mount? Or as another possibility, has my chassis had the mount points welded incorrectly? Or... what am I doing wrong?


Mounting points.jpg From front.jpg From Cockpit.jpg Collides with chassis.jpg

[Bob_n_Cincy]

After sorting the oil canning out, I rotated the car so that it is now the right way up and moved on to the next task in the manual, which is fitting the pedalbox mount bracket.

I can't see how the one I have will fit the space and mounting points that I have on my RHD chassis. There is a chance of course that I am being dim and trying to fit it the wrong way, but it looks like the mount points won't align with the corresponding holes in the bracket and the "sticky out bit" for the accelerator collides with the chassis rails.

Can anyone here tell me whether I need a right-hand drive mount? Or as another possibility, has my chassis had the mount points welded incorrectly? Or... what am I doing wrong?

Below is a picture of a RHD car built by ffr. It clearly showss the clutch master cylinder nearer to the middle of the car.
It looks like your mounting bracket is for a left hand drive car. Talk to Tony Zulo at FFR. He built the First RHD car.
Bob

FFR_RHD.jpg

[DJWalker]

Thanks @bob_n_cincy that picture is really useful. Looks like it confirms my thinking that the bracket I have won’t work. Thanks for pointing out that the clutch master cylinder is nearer the middle of the car. That made me realise that in the photo it is on the opposite side of the middle chassis tube, which would open up enough space for the accelerator part of the mount to be free of the tubes on the outside.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Thanks @bob_n_cincy that picture is really useful. Looks like it confirms my thinking that the bracket I have won’t work. Thanks for pointing out that the clutch master cylinder is nearer the middle of the car. That made me realise that in the photo it is on the opposite side of the middle chassis tube, which would open up enough space for the accelerator part of the mount to be free of the tubes on the outside.

Her is another angle

IMG-20130916-02760.jpg

[J R Jones]

Given the history of FFR fails at routine details, like R & L door/window mechanisms, I would not trust a non-typical part like you are seeking. I would prototype a right-side mount using the left one you have and Bob's comment for guidance. Then make a permanent part.
FFR is obviously struggling with day to day business and your extra ordinary requirement may take a long time. Just do it and enjoy the accomplishment.
jim

[STiPWRD]

FFR does make mistakes with packing parts (or forgetting to pack parts) but every time I've called them about a missing part they've always come through and sent me the right part. I see no reason why they wouldn't send you the correct bracket. It could take a while to get there depending on availability and shipping but it'll get there.

[DJWalker]

I’ve had a reply today from Factory Five after I emailed with questions about this. They said that right hand drive cars use the Wilwood pedal box and that should have come with my kit.

[J R Jones]

DJW I composed this earlier today, and then my internet access went down. I see your comment on the Wilwood pedal box. This may be an alternative.
The "sticky out bit" is not throttle, it is the clutch master cylinder mount; the US mount. The throttle mount is an additional angled plate that bolts to the upper lateral frame tube and the forward aluminum bulkhead.
So the vertical frame tube forward of the US mount interferes with the US clutch master.
I assume your UK Subaru donor pedal assembly mount the clutch master on the left?
Option 1
If your donor clutch master location is to the left perhaps you can cut off the clutch master mount and weld it on the left side of the pedal plate.
Option 2
You could consider the Wilwood pedal assembly.
If FFR has it on hand, the wait may not be prolonged.
jim

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Darren,
Here is a picture for the Wilwood pedal box plate.

ww_pedal.jpg

The plate looks to be flat. So it could bee flipped over to fit a RHD car.
I am surprised that the wilwood pedal box comes with the RHD car. It is a pretty expensive option.
Bob

[DJWalker]

Jim/Bob, thanks for your posts.

I too was surprised that the Wilwood pedal box comes with the RHD car, given how expensive it is. The RHD option is an expensive option too ($1000), it's not like the donor year/induction options that come for free. Perhaps the reason it is so much is because it covers the $800 pedal box.

I need to get a firm answer to the Wilwood pedal box and if it does come with the kit, get it on back order. My email came from Jim Schenck, so it feels like it is from a good source. So, if I should have received it and it can go on back order, I will have to be patient and wait for it. I wouldn't want to forego a $800 option that I had already paid for.

I don't know how to weld (yet?) so would prefer to have the need for welding further down the list of possibilities at the moment.

Darren

[DJWalker]

Hard to believe, but 12 months on from my last post, we still haven’t received the full and correct Wilwood PedalBox. We received a few bits and pieces of it (the pedals, one reservoir) but it was a left hand drive kit so the mount bracket needed spacers to be removed and re-welded on the opposite side. Also, the aluminium for the firewall doesn’t work because the RHD version is not a mirror image of the left hand drive version. I’ve asked for specs/design of the RHD aluminium so that I can get some made but I haven’t received that either.

The car has been sitting for the last year as almost a bare chassis (just underbody aluminium attached). Time has been filled with refurbishing/preparing parts and disassembling the engine.

[lance corsi]

Despite the lower price point of the 818, it may be one of the most difficult builds sold by FFR. not enough engineering work leaves quite a bit for the builder to deal with. Good luck!

[DJWalker]

Going to have a try to bring this build thread up to date. I've been putting a lot of time in to the build, but things are progressing only slowly.

Funny that my last post started with "Hard to believe, but 12 months on from my last post, we still haven’t received the full and correct Wilwood PedalBox." because a further 8 months on from that post we're still in exactly the same position waiting for those parts. It's hard to put into words just how ridiculous that is.

However, we decided that we would try to work around that issue. First thing was to get the mounting bracket adjusted by getting the welded spacers transferred to the other face so that the left hand drive bracket could be flipped over and used as a right hand drive bracket.

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We thought that meant that we could progress, so we went ahead and drilled the firewall piece that goes in front of the mounting bracket. We assumed that this could just be flipped over, but then we realised that there would be a gap between that piece and the corner piece. Obviously things weren't quite mirrored - we have chassis rails in a different configuration.

20221106_085312036_iOS.jpg

So the next thing was to fabricate a new panel, that would be a little wider and would cover the gap. The panel on the other side would also need to be trimmed shorter by the same amount because the two panels taken together were the correct width. The corner piece needed trimming to remove the flange that would align with the "bump" in a standard firewall. The end result was really pleasing - a flat firewall seems a lot nicer than the standard one.

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Today, it appears that this work was pretty much wasted because the hole for the steering column is offset too far towards the middle of the car. The steering column isn't anywhere near straight so it isn't going to work as it is. Possibly, the correct Wilwood Pedalbox parts will resolve the issue (if they ever arrive). Either way, the firewall rivets are going to have to be drilled out, and a new mounting bracket and firewall panel fitted. I'm very frustrated about this and feel almost ready to throw in the towel.

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[DJWalker]

Early on in the year, we built the rear suspension. I don't think there was anything particularly notable about that. We've used new knuckle assemblies because the ones from the donor were extremely rusty. We refurbished the arms a long time ago and replaced the bushes with Powerflex polyurethane bushes. We bought new calipers and managed to sell the old ones. Originally, I planned to refurbish and powder coat them myself but it was only a little bit more expensive to buy new ones for the rear, once the sale of the donor ones was taken into account. We ended up buying new ones for the front too, but the financial equation didn't work out quite so well!

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One thing that we did notice during assembly of the rear suspension is that we've got some fasteners where there is not enough bolt thread protruding beyond the nut. We'll need to make sure that all those are replaced with longer bolts are shorter nuts because this is a requirement for IVA (Individual Vehicle Assessment). This is the inspection that is carried out in the UK before a car can be registered and used legally on the road.

20230205_114108473_iOS.jpg

[DJWalker]

Once we'd got our firewall sorted out, we could get on with building the front suspension. Like the rear, we had new knuckles and calipers. We'd bought aluminium control arms to replace our rusty steel ones. They were so rusty that when we were using the donor as a daily driver back in 2020, the mounting lobe on the driver-side arm snapped off and rendered the car undrivable. That was the cue to start stripping it!

We refurbished and reused the sway bar and steering rack but everything else was new.

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For the sway bar mounts we got some Whiteline brackets and bushes that are very similar to the ones that other people have recommended on the forum. Being in the UK, we couldn't get exactly the same ones but the Whiteline versions should be good. They actually came from Australia and took about 6 months from order to delivery.

20230624_162749628_iOS.jpg

One issue we had with the front suspension was with the driver side lower control arm. In the instruction manual, it advises denting the aluminium firewall to make room for the lower control arm bushing bolt. For a right-hand-drive car (or at least for our right-hand-drive car that is using a wagon donor), there is a chassis rail behind the firewall at the point where the dent would be made. We cut a hole in the firewall to create the space, but that actually isn't in quite the right position. We also used a grinder to grind down the bolt, which created a gap. We had to be careful here to make sure that enough threads were still showing so we were a bit limited in how far we could go.

20230729_112412891_iOS.jpg

[FFRWRX]

These cars are hard enough to build. To build a right hand drive version only adds to the difficulty.

The other day my wife asked me if many people buy Factory Five cars. I asked why she was asking that. She said that most of the time I work on it I'm complaining about how poorly something was designed, how much effort it needed to be put right, and does everyone who builds one have to know how to weld, fabricate, do body work, etc? This car is certainly not a great advertisement for F5. I honestly think it is an embarrassment. The finished project is very nice, but getting there....no excuse for the shoddy design of many areas.

[lance corsi]

These cars are hard enough to build. To build a right hand drive version only adds to the difficulty.

The other day my wife asked me if many people buy Factory Five cars. I asked why she was asking that. She said that most of the time I work on it I'm complaining about how poorly something was designed, how much effort it needed to be put right, and does everyone who builds one have to know how to weld, fabricate, do body work, etc? This car is certainly not a great advertisement for F5. I honestly think it is an embarrassment. The finished project is very nice, but getting there....no excuse for the shoddy design of many areas.

Agreed. I think that too many kits are sold based upon what a few talented people have ultimately built. It would be false advertisement for a second rate product imo. In my case, almost everything on the car has been altered in order to come up to an acceptable level.

[Mark Eaton]

Going to have a try to bring this build thread up to date. I've been putting a lot of time in to the build, but things are progressing only slowly.


Today, it appears that this work was pretty much wasted because the hole for the steering column is offset too far towards the middle of the car. The steering column isn't anywhere near straight so it isn't going to work as it is. Possibly, the correct Wilwood Pedalbox parts will resolve the issue (if they ever arrive). Either way, the firewall rivets are going to have to be drilled out, and a new mounting bracket and firewall panel fitted. I'm very frustrated about this and feel almost ready to throw in the towel.

Definitely frustrating waiting on parts. Don't give up over that steering column misalignment issue. Drill a hole through the firewall in the correct location and keep building the car with parts that you have in inventory. I have had to modify multiple things on my 818C build so far. Not unusual, I had to modify a lot on my MK4 build as well.

Good luck!

Mark

[DJWalker]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I agree with the comments that lots of alterations need to be made and the fact that this is a right hand drive version certainly adds to the complexity. I feel a lot better about things today, which is partly because of getting some stuff down in this build thread, partly because of the supportive comments and partly because I spent my time in the garage today cracking on with the interior aluminium.

I had a cold hard look at what needs to be done to sort the steering column out and in addition to the hole in the firewall I think it will need a new pedalbox bracket fabricating that is slightly larger than the one I have. That will need to have a hole in it that will support the steering column in the same way that the column is supported in a left hand drive car by the normal Wilwood bracket or the standard bracket. Looks like that hole needs to be directly under the middle master cylinder position.

20230730_124719681_iOS.jpg

[Nigel Allen]

From my recollection, the 818 was originally proto-typed as a RHD car. This was to ensure world wide appeal. A very early 818 did come to Australia

Could have been my imagination, or marketing fluff at launch.

Cheers,

Nigel

[DJWalker]

From my recollection, the 818 was originally proto-typed as a RHD car. This was to ensure world wide appeal. A very early 818 did come to Australia

Could have been my imagination, or marketing fluff at launch.

Yes, I have heard before that it was prototyped as a RHD.

The Wilwood car was also RHD
https://www.factoryfive.com/whats-ne...s-top-10-sema/


There is a builder in Australia at the moment who is in the early stages of his build. He is struggling with pedalbox issues too, but has different problems to solve because he is trying to use the OEM pedals.

[DJWalker]

Probably about time I added an update to this thread.

I've fabricated and fitted the rear-rear firewall and had that powdercoated. Pleased with the end result, but it took quite a while to do.

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Working on the fabrication of the Pedalbox bracket, which is pretty much done and then will need to remake the firewall panel for the front of the pedalbox.

[Shawn818c]

One of the biggest omissions was rear firewall.