wheel bearing and seal questions

[jaw777]

I have a question about replacement of the wheel bearing seals. I took my hubs apart and had them powder coated and then replaced the bearings and seals. I should have probably taken pictures of the seals, but I thought I would be able to tell from the parts I ordered. I figured wrong.

I found out the hard way that I had the inner and outer seals swapped on my rear hubs. Basically, I destroyed an outer seal because I tried to press it in the incorrect location. I am pretty sure I have that straightened out.

Now I think I may have my front hub inner and outer seals reversed. Any chance someone can take a picture of the inner or outer seal or tell me which one has the rubber flare so I can tell if I have this backwards?

And can you tell me if I will destroy the new bearing when I take it back apart?

Thank you.

[Frank818]

Well, I don't know the year but I think the seals are the same for most models between 02 and 07.
Here are pix of the outer front. https://www.google.ca/search?q=28015...=1519&bih=1111

#28015AA070 Outer
#28015AA080 Inner

[nuisance]

Here is a picture of the front hub of a 2002 WRX wagon freshly disassembled. The seal leaning up against the hub is the inner seal, and still on the hub, under the bearing, is the outer.

front wheel bearing.jpg

Also for reference (mine too) is the rear. Again, the outer seal is still on the hub under the bearing. Next to it are the two inner seals. The one on top is the one closest to the bearing.

rear wheel bearing.jpg

John

[jaw777]

Thank you both. I have it right!

Usually when my odds are 50/50 I get it wrong. I guess I was overdue!

[Frank818]

Usually when my odds are 50/50 I get it wrong. I guess I was overdue!

Well that's bad, it means the next few 50/50s you'll be facing will end up being wrong. lolll
But now that you know, you can prepare yourself.

[CptTripps]

I was planning on replacing all the wheel bearings and seals. Is there a kit that has them all? I found this, but wasn't sure if it'd be cheaper/better to buy the parts individually.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000YE59EO/...TOtb0R8W649CZ6

I was a little surprised to see that the hub assembly is only $25. I'm assuming that doesn't include the bearing, but seemed too cheap. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0026MAU46/...TOtb0B9Y6XBG32

Sorry to hijack.

[Frank818]

I have seen some kits on ebay, say 2 front bearings with 4 seals, 2 rear bearings with 4 seals, but not 4 bearings with 8 seals, though I did not search for that specifically.

[jaw777]

I bought all of mine individually through RockAuto. Those look like a good deal. However, my rear bearings required 3 seals on each side. 2002 donor

[Frank818]

3 seals? Interesting, I have a 2003 (using 2000 Forester spindles) and I used 2 seals.
So there are differences between 2002 and 2003 models, I thought all was the same.

[Jaime]

My 2005 had 3.

[67 Car Guy]

I see this is an old thread, but....

I'm going with 2006 STI spindles all around to get the 27 spline axles and 5x114 lug pattern.

The front STI spindles take the cartridge bearings, got those no problem. I have to rebuild my donor rears, so I'm collecting all the parts. I made the mistake of bringing the original hubs to a local machine shop to disassemble them. Big mistake; they butchered one of the hubs getting it apart, so I had to order a new hub. I also realized they only gave me one set of the old seals back. At first I didn't think anything of it, but now I have a question on the seals. It seems the regular WRX rear knuckles use 3 seals. 1 outer, and 2 different inner seals stacked on one another. However, it's looking like the STI knuckle may only have 2 seals: an inner and an outer. I've spent hours on the Subaru parts website trying to cross reference the various part numbers with the part numbers on Rock Auto. I also found a video online showing the bearing replacement process for STI hubs. In the video, his kit comes with 3 seals, but he casually tosses away 1 as not needed. Looking at my knuckles now, it looks like there was only 1 inner seal. There is a slightly larger diameter after that, but it's thoroughly rusted and does not look like it ever had a seal in it. However, if I go on the Rock Auto site, Beck Arnley lists two parts, an outer and an inner (0523570 & 0523586). BUT SKF lists 3 (22032,22026 and 19624) as inner outer and "center" for the STI. FWIW the diameter of 19624 seems too small to fit anywhere on the knuckle. And National also lists 3 seals for the STI knuckles (710463, 710464, and 225005) with similar reference to inner, outer and center. The Subaru parts website lists 2 different seals for the STI rear, but, just to create doubt, they refer to both as "inner". I haven't found any good assembly drawings which would show the right parts and their locations. BTW my local Subaru dealer literally will not talk to me without an actual vehicle and VIN number. Would not entertain rebuilding my knuckles under any (cash) conditions.

My present plan is to order a few of each (they're not expensive) and then see what seems to fit. I hate that approach, I'd really like to get it right, for sure.

Any advice from STI hub users?

[67 Car Guy]

UPDATE: I found the Subaru shop manual online and found a diagram showing 3 seals on a diagram which I think is for the STI. However, today when I went back to the dealer to pick up some other parts, I asked the counter guy about the correct seals. I showed him the assembly drawing out of the shop manual. He was really good about it, and started digging. He said using a 2006 STI sedan as a reference (no VIN number), he came up with a different diagram. It does show 3 seals, BUT it also has a note that he explained means you use THIS seal for a regular WRX and THAT seal for the STI. According to him, I need only 2 seals on the STI hubs, the inner and the outer. the 28015AA070 and 28015AA080. So right now I have a bunch of different seals coming in, and pages of cross referencing numbers. Once I get it sorted out, and seals are in place, I'll report back-

[Santiago]

67 this is perfect timing. Many thanks! I'm also using 2006 STI hubs and have gone through the same head scratching.

I also just disassembled my rear hubs. I can see how you could mangle them in a press if you miss that inner cast ring - doesn't show up on the WRX how to videos. Anyway, they definitely have only two seals.

I ordered my bearings and seals before I did the disassembly, so I'm in the same boat, just waiting for parts to arrive and see what fits. Looking forward to any update you can offer. I'll report with what I find when I can.

Yours (bobbing up and down in the raft),

-john

[67 Car Guy]

Yes, I must admit this is perfect timing!

Glad to see there is someone out there who's in the same boat.

So what I have found is this: The WRX hubs do, in fact have 3 seals. 1 outer seal, under the wheel hub flange, and then -2- on the inside, facing the axle. The reason I know this is because I bought a pair of hubs on Ebay, hoping I could "convert" them to STI hubs. Nope, different hub and bearing diameters. But they were in nice shape with intact parking brake cables and what -appear- to be original seals. I did not try to pull the hubs out, but I did pull the first inner seal out (closest to the axle). And yes, there is a second seal under it!!! But these are a different diameter than the STI seals. Different hubs. So after getting my hubs ruined by the local "professionals" I rigged up a hydraulic Greenlee punch I happen to have to use it to press in the bearings. Following the spirit of the online video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANnGTILEpXw) I pressed the bearing into the hub. Tonight I managed to cook up a bunch of extensions and spacers to "pull in" the hub assembly. I did this AFTER I installed the outer snap ring and seal. I am firmly convinced the correct OUTER STI seal is the 28015AA070 (AKA 22032, 710464, etc). So I pulled my hub into place, and then installed the INNER seal (28015AA080, AKA 22026, 710463). BTW I ordered one of the cheapest wheel bearings I could get ($19) and I dissassembled it to make my bearing and seal installation tools. I used SKF bearings for my hubs, for what it's worth. Everything SEEMS correct. I'd be very curious to know what you find when you disassemble your hubs. I have to do my second hub now, so I'll take pictures and post them so you can see what I did. I'm attaching photos of the WRX hubs showing the 2 stacked inner seals. Remember, these are NOT the STI hubs.

IMG_1539.jpgIMG_1537.jpgIMG_1538.jpg

[67 Car Guy]

OK. more good news: I got my Brembo Brake calipers today and they actually fit. So I have closure to that extent. I put my second hub together today, and here are the pictures of my second STI Hub going together:

1) the bare hub with backing plate installed
2) the hub with the bearing ready to be "pulled" in
3) the hub with new bearing seated, "pusher" bearing case sticking out
4) seated bearing with snap ring installed
5) seated bearing with 28015AA070 outer seal installed
6) wheel hub in place ready to be pulled in
7) wheel hub seated with inner seal installed (28015AA080)

Now that I've done it, I think all I really needed was the threaded rod and a few plates and washers. I would have had plenty of force to pull them in.

IMG_1540.jpgIMG_1542.jpgIMG_1543.jpgIMG_1544.jpgIMG_1545.jpgIMG_1546.jpgIMG_1547.jpg

[Santiago]

Thanks 67!

Got my bearings in the mail yesterday and I was pleased that everything matches what I took out of the spindles. This is the NTN bearing part number:



I've read that the NTN part number 4T-CRI-08A02 is actually Part number 4T-CR1-08A02, as NTN avoids using "I" in their part numbers. Anywho...

One small difference I noticed is that the inner seal on yours looks different than mine. Could be the angle/lighting of the photo, but my inner seal has a flange of sorts that sits rather proud of the body of the seal. My replacement seal is identical to what I pulled from the spindle. Here it is before disassembly:



Bit hard to tell in the photo, but that flange is kind of conical shaped. I assume its job is to mate up against the face of the CV housing to fully seal that junction. In your photo it looks flat. Again, could be the photo angle/lighting, but thought I would mention it.

If yours really is flat, then I wonder if you used the inner part of the 2-part seal system. And if that's the case, I wonder if it will seal properly at the point the CV axle sits in there. Just throwing it out there.

Best,
-j

[67 Car Guy]

Interesting. I think the seal is just how you view it. I have a pretty tall lip, with a lower less pronounced lip inside it. I'm attaching a picture with me holding it away a bit for a better view.

As far as the bearings go: The picture you show seems to be the inner race with the rollers on the outside. You should have a pair of these with the outer shell, no? I read somewhere that they are a super-matched set. There is a plastic sleeve down the middle which holds them together. It gets pushed out when you install the spindle. Have you checked out the video? It shows how the plastic sleeve gets pushed out when you press in the spindle.

IMG_1549.jpg

[Santiago]

Cool. I think you're right, it was just in the angle/pic/lighting, etc. Looks like the same rear seal I'm installing.

The pictures I showed were of the disassembled old bearings. The new ones are still in their bags with the plastic sleeve holding the two halves together inside the outer race. I'm swamped at work, so I haven't had a chance to get to the other garage with the press. That, and I've been cleaning stuff up and repainting so they can begin life anew. =)

BTW, did you repack your bearings with new grease or did you just go with the grease they came with? Seems like one of those "taste great / less filling" debates. Just curious what you did. I'm leaning towards installing them as delivered (apparently NTN uses a pretty high quality high-temp grease). Still on the fence.

Best,
-j

[67 Car Guy]

Yeah, I've seen comments that they are a bit frugal with the grease on new bearings. I was torn: I'm thinking the manufacturer knows what he's doing, and the right type and amount is in there. But there's that nagging feeling of "more is better". So I compromised. I left the original grease packing alone, but I did add some around the edges to fill it out. I used a high quality synthetic grease, figuring it can't hurt.

I'm at the same stage now: dissassembling it all for cleaning and painting.