Plavan's 818R Build Thread

[metros]

Cool pictures.

Hope this is enough for you. I'm assuming these are all ran in series? Any downsides to having that length of oil lines? (Other than weight of course) Will it affect oil pressures?

[Flamshackle]

I'm adding my third oil cooler into the car drivers side front. It's the same size as other oil cooler on passenger side, but I moved the splash guard and cooler forward more away from wheel. I just need to go grab some bigger hose clamps for the bumper to oil cooler ducting hose.

Next up is installing a racing thermostat (coolant) and some silicon hoses, then bleed and fill back up. I'm shooting for testing on Friday. I hope it works, then I have the NASA championships at Laguna Seca at the end of the month.

Fair to say we are all watching and waiting to hear some good news :-) go well man can't wait to hear how the car performs.

[C.Plavan]

Oil lines, oil lines everywhere!

[longislandwrx]

What thermostat are you planning on running now? Just a std 160 or something fancier?

[C.Plavan]

What thermostat are you planning on running now? Just a std 160 or something fancier?

Just a 154 degree Mishimoto Racing one. I'm not expecting miracles as no one should when replacing a thermostat, but it will help the engine oil heat exchanger for a bit :/ . Better than the 172 degree one. I would not put a lower T-stat in a street car, but a race car with constant revving, and higher temps wont hurt (not stop and go).

I also found out my primary fan #1 fuse was blown when I filled the coolant system (I hotwired the second fan to help with IC HE). That would explain the creeping coolant temps last practice, I thought it was the 105 degree ambient outside temp.... Thats fixed. I used the Airlift coolant filling vacuum tool. I'm very impressed with it. It worked awesome on a fully drained coolant system.

I also uncapped the passenger side radiator port (and took bolt out since I tapped it earlier) and ran a 5/16th hose back to the degas tank. It's pretty easy to do when you have an R with a cage, it's a straight shot. I tee'd it in with a 5/16th, 3 port adapter to Wayne's coolant mod hose, then to the degas tank. This is the first time I am confident there are no air pockets in the system. The Airlift, Wayne's mod, and the new hose run from radiator made the burping process much less of a chore without any surprises.

Both front oil coolers are ducted and working well. No leaks. We will find out Friday if this was a waste of time or not.

One thing else I'm going to need to do is drill some vent holes on the top of the passenger door. The oil lines that I have running through them need some ventilation, it gets hot in that enclosed door space.

[wleehendrick]

Oil lines, oil lines everywhere!

[longislandwrx]

Both front oil coolers are ducted and working well. No leaks. We will find out Friday if this was a waste of time or not.

Any loss of pressure with 40 feet of oil line?

[C.Plavan]

Any loss of pressure with 40 feet of oil line?

Nothing on the gauge. Everything looks good.

[bbjones121]

Looks great. I hope everything goes well this Friday. Good luck.

[Flamshackle]

I cant wait to hear the results. Stoked you found the blown fan fuse.

All the best!

[C.Plavan]

T-minus 20 min- a nice 80 degrees today.
http://imgur.com/G43YTRl

[matteo92065]

looks great.
May your lap and oil temps be low.

[longislandwrx]

just got a turboner from that picture.

be cool.

[flynntuna]

Ditto be cool.

Don't know if it's Comic-Con being in town or what but the first thing I thought of when I saw the umbrella in the car was what is Dark Helmet doing in the car? :rolleyes

[Flamshackle]

T-minus 20 min- a nice 80 degrees today.
http://imgur.com/G43YTRl

Duct tape rolls holding the umbrella down... Is there anything duct tape can't do?

[C.Plavan]

Alright fella's. I think I'm done with this car. I like racing better that wrenching. Same issues. I'll sell it complete, or as a roller. Make reasonable offers. Stress reasonable. The car handles like a dream- I was passing Porsche cup cars again.

The Good Ole' reliable Porsche is coming out of retirement.

[Flamshackle]

Alright fella's. I think I'm done with this car. I like racing better that wrenching. Same issues. I'll sell it complete, or as a roller. Make reasonable offers. Stress reasonable. The car handles like a dream- I was passing Porsche cup cars again.

The Good Ole' reliable Porsche is coming out of retirement.

Oh man that's bad news. Creeping water and oil temps?

[C.Plavan]

Oh man that's bad news. Creeping water and oil temps?

Ran 30min fine, then the same ole thing. Oil, not water.

[Frank818]

Oh crap. That really sucks like hell. So sorry about that. Hopefully she goes in other good hands.

Which Porsche is coming out of retirement? Would be nice seeing a GT3 RS 4.0.

[flynntuna]

Oh man, this doesn't seem real! You've done everything imaginable. (over kill some would say) From what you've put in the car you would think you'd have problems getting to temperature.

[metros]

Any new video?

30 minutes to reach the danger zone is much longer than before, right? Some have argued it's the location of the temp sensor. But changing the amount of time it took to reach the danger zone would prove that sensor location isn't dictating temp readings. I guess that's only with everything else being equal (ambient temp).

[Frank818]

After second thought, I think it's worth pursuing investigation. I would not let go, I would not accept being beaten by one car problem I can't find/fix.

Let's try thinking out of the box, I have a few ideas, some may be costly, but if they are winners, I personally would do it. But it's up to you of course, it's your car. It's just that I think it's worth it, you've put so much time on it, everything runs fine and it's a blast to drive, it's just that one thing to fix.

[Erik W. Treves]

Oh man, this doesn't seem real! You've done everything imaginable. (over kill some would say) From what you've put in the car you would think you'd have problems getting to temperature.

Yep I am saying there is something else going on...wrong place for the sensor or bad sensor. ..no possible way it's actually that hot if you engine is healthy..

[Mechie3]

I'm still baffled that you have these problems while quite a few tracked subarus don't. Sorry to bear of your troubles.

[Frank818]

Did he ever change the sensor?

[metalmaker12]

Ran 30min fine, then the same ole thing. Oil, not water.

No way temps are that high, something's reading wrong brother.

I beat the hell out of mine today and temps didn't get to hot

[C.Plavan]

Sensor is fine guys. Repeat: sensor is fine. It's something else.

[Flamshackle]

Oh man, this doesn't seem real! You've done everything imaginable. (over kill some would say) From what you've put in the car you would think you'd have problems getting to temperature.

This is what I was thinking.

The track Subarus here in Aotearoa don't have that much real estate in the oil cooling department. it has to be something else.

Please don't throw in the towel on this car. surely its worth getting it sorted after all that work.

Great to hear that it handles like a beast.

[JeromeS13]

IMHO, you need more data. Temp before and after each cooler. If the cooler efficiencies are within proper range, there's something wrong with the engine... Either clearances, or you need to play around with oil viscosity. Don't give up.

[Flamshackle]

Things I have learned in 20 years of racing.
#1 Racing isn't cheap
#2 Do it right the first time, otherwise it will cost you twice as much
#3 Read #1 again
#4 Prepare for the worst
#5 Have fun

Let your own learning guide you through this Chad. We are all wanting this thing to be rewarding but if you give up now you will just resent it forever. Fix it, have fun and then sell it. Its the best way forward trust me.

[Tamra]

Chad,
I'm sure i'm coming in late, and going over old news to you, and I haven't searched the thread for my answers.

What are your bearing clearances, is your motor AVCS, and what oil pump are you running, with what bypass pressure/shim count (and ideally, what RPM do you see it hit bypass pressure, and what RPM do you run most of the time on the track average?)

Other ideas- any chance you could log temps into & out of your oil cooler? Would show where the problem is coming from (heat generation or rejection)

Reasons I'm asking- the oil bypass generates heat. Too much pump for the oiling needs causes more bypass. Could be that the cooler isn't flowing enough oil (is all the pumped oil passing through the cooler?), or that it's not getting enough air.

IMHO, you need more data. Temp before and after each cooler. If the cooler efficiencies are within proper range, there's something wrong with the engine... Either clearances, or you need to play around with oil viscosity. Don't give up.

I agree with the above.

[C.Plavan]

The motor came from AJW. They never called me back when I asked about bearings ect. I'm guessing the bearings are stock for a 2013 sti block. Oil pump is stock. forged pistons, rods.

I think it is ECU related. It ran fine with the oil temp a 220 for 30 min, then if feels like there is a "timer" on the motor, after a certain amount of time, it starts to lose power and the oil temp starts climbing. This time it started loosing power, the oil temp was still fine for a bit unlike before, then I let off and started cruising to come in, and the oil temp started rising. Could be fuel getting warm too.

I'm just tired of throwing money at this car. I have other things I want to do/build. I'm still not sold on the safety of an open top car either (especially the R is stock form). I'm thinking $25k as a roller complete with everything without the engine. I'll include everything else- iWire harness for 2006 wrx, Legacy GT trans with LSD (Modena)) Element tuning Dry sump, fire system, Fuel Safe fuel cell, AWIC, 2 complete sets of Team Dynamic racing wheels (one with brand new never used Hoosier A7's) and all the other "new" stuff since my car was a non donor build. All you need to do is throw your engine in. If you want the complete car with motor $29K (Tial External Wastegate, Blouch DOM 1.5.). Comes with NASA ST2 logbook and 2015 Annual Tech sticker.

I also have an extra Legacy GT trans for a spare.

[metros]

FFR should pick this up and put their team behind it. It would be a great place for them to start from.

[Sgt.Gator]

I understand your frustration and need to move on. I'm sorry to see you in this pickle.
The only thing I can think of is to move the oil tank to the front of the car, away from the engine bay.

I cancelled my R order and year ago but your car is tempting and it's not that far away for me to drive down with my trailer. Unfortunately I bought a California 2008 Spec B that was someone else's 3 year headache, and now it's my headache. Once the Spec B is fixed and sold I will consider taking on this problem child if you still have it.

BTW, I used to race with Zack, the Corvette you match times with. He's a great guy. He co-drove my Legacy in an enduro with me last year. Please tell him Gator says hello!
Don't hate on Corvettes, the ones that race don't wear gold chains and pinkie rings!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hi Chad,
I know you are getting lot of advice, so I will make this short.
Is it possible the scavenge pump is not keeping up, allowing oil to build up in the block?
The crankshaft turning in a pool of oil would fell like a big power loss.
This would also take all that lost power and super heat the oil in the block. Like a water-brake dyno.
Bob

[C.Plavan]

Hi Chad,
I know you are getting lot of advice, so I will make this short.
Is it possible the scavenge pump is not keeping up, allowing oil to build up in the block?
The crankshaft turning in a pool of oil would fell like a big power loss.
This would also take all that lost power and super heat the oil in the block. Like a water-brake dyno.
Bob

Could be. I'm just at a loss. I had a engineer racer buddy send me this. He thinks I could be "Whipping" the oil. This makes more sense, but then again who knows?

[Sgt.Gator]

I think air mixed into a froth causes a loss of oil pressure which should be obvious before it gets too hot.

[dirty kurty]

Metalmaker, Bob, Tamra, what oil viscosity are you running in your engines?

Chad did you ever try a XX-30 oil?

If you oil temp is going up and you water temp is constant or going down (like when you backed off to go in the pits) the heat is coming from something in your oil's path, or the oil itself is causing the problem, plain and simple. Did you ever open the engine to inspect for premature wear in any bearings?

XX-50 oil has ~twice the viscosity of XX-30 at very high temps. This isn't always a good thing. In tight tolerance bearings you can get shearing with higher viscosity. Higher temps lead to tighter tolerances.

Shearing -> Loss of lubrication -> Heat -> Even tighter tolerances -> More shearing.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Metalmaker, Bob, Tamra, what oil viscosity are you running in your engines?

Chad did you ever try a XX-30 oil?

If you oil temp is going up and you water temp is constant or going down (like when you backed off to go in the pits) the heat is coming from something in your oil's path, or the oil itself is causing the problem, plain and simple. Did you ever open the engine to inspect for premature wear in any bearings?

XX-50 oil has ~twice the viscosity of XX-30 at very high temps. This isn't always a good thing. In tight tolerance bearings you can get shearing with higher viscosity. Higher temps lead to tighter tolerances.

Shearing -> Loss of lubrication -> Heat -> Even tighter tolerances -> More shearing.

I'm running Rotella T6 Full Synthetic 5w-40. Recommended by my Tuner ( https://turninconcepts.com/ )

I don't run nearly as hard as Chad. The hardest I have done so far is 12 autocross runs in a 1 hour period.
Bob

[D Clary]

Sorry things didn't work out Chad. I kind of had my doubts at the third oil cooler. I track and autocross my turbo Mustang and I can tell you there is a lot more abuse on the open track, If you have watched Chad's videos he is close to 7k all the time. Most of my time is at Sonoma where you are only at full throttle about half the time. Autcross is short bursts with a long wait. The point is that Chad is stressing everything to the max. (including Chad). I think on one hand you are right Chad, you may not need to sell it, but you need to step away from it. Race the Porsche and enjoy the rest of the Summer. Maybe some of us will catch up to you and solve some of these problems. Thanks for your effort. Is crowd funding still an option?