iWire, VCP Ms3, diet factory, OR???

[SoCalK61000]

So as im waiting for my 818c to arrive I have been debating what do to about the wire harness.

Has anyone used a Painless 18 circuit harness and a stand alone of any sort?

whats everyones thoughts on what harness to run?

The plan with my Car is to be a weekend car and a track car so reliability is key, will stay on stock turbo and fuel for the time being but future plans include a bigger turbo and E85 (looking for about 350whp) and would like to do a flex fuel setup


any input is appreciated

[Wayne Presley]

The VCP harness is a stand alone (Electromotive TEC's, MS3pro, or Haltech) mated to a 12 circuit harness with Subaru connectors. Gives you a tuneable system with software open to you, and comes with a base tune to get you started. Takes about 2 hours at most to install. $2150 with MS3pro, $2950 for drive by wire Haltech. Both will support a flex fuel sensor.

iWire is a dieted stock harness with the stock ECU. Will need either a Cobb Accessport ($695) or a shop with the tuning software for any non stock combination. $2200 The Cobb Accessport does not support the flex fuel sensor on the 2002-2007 WRX.



Diet your own , figure a minimum of 40 hours to trim it down and make it look good and work. Still stuck with the stock ECU needing the Accessport or a shop to tune.

[ben1272]

You may or may not want to factor in quality and appearance of the choices you mention. I am buying an iWire harness and so am biased, but I think it is the nicest looking and said to be of very high quality (I don't have mine yet). I have not seen what you receive with a VCP harness and diet job takes LOTS of work to make look good and be decent quality. You might want to get some good photos of the 3 options.

Also, Brian at iWire will do almost anything you ask to make your harness work for your needs. Not sure what VCP is willing to do, probably the same but worth asking.

Lastly, iWire maintains stock ECU which you may need if street driving is in your future too. Varies state to state I think.

Good luck! Nice problems to have, no?

-Ben

[Wayne Presley]

Yes I do custom options per customer request.

[redfogo]

I had great luck with my DIY wire system it's just as light if not lighter then the iwire system. I have no relays since I have an infinity box. I have a thread on what to do if your up to the task.http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...wiring-harness

Stick to OEM ECU it's far better and has lots of after market support since it's a Subaru.

[iWire]

Calling our harness "dieted" is like calling an 818 a dieted WRX.

We have redesigned the harness from the ground up starting with 2 or 3 brand new weather sealed fuse boxes and fresh wire to run across the entire harness. From there we use a few of the factory ends to connect up to the stock mechanical parts (IE steering column); no different than the VCP harness in this regard. When we build the harness we don't consider weight because weight is a direct correlation to how many options the customer wants. We can build a simple lightweight race harness or build a slightly heavier harness (we're talking under 28lbs with all pieces attached including 3 fuse boxes and ECU w/mounting box). With 30 fuses and 15 relay slots available on a 3 box system, you can do everything from power windows, DRLs, traction control, ABS, HVAC, and pretty much anything you can think of.

The ECU to engine section is the only part that remains semi-intact because to rebuild it would not be worth the added cost to the end consumer. We've been putting this section into cars for over 10 years and can vouch for its robust nature. We do however shorten the 2 main plugs to 818 spec using brand new pins in the original housings and connect it to the rest of the harness using Deutsch connectors to make it completely modular.

As for ECU choice, it is our experience that 95% of people will get everything they need with the factory Subaru ECU given it can be re-calibrated both with the Cobb AP, but also with free software available to anyone with a Tactrix cable some knowledge. In addition many people live in states that require some sort of smog test in order to get the car road legal, so it goes from a choice to a requirement.

[brian b 36]

I have 3 harness from brian they are very user friendly, plug and play and brian is the best to work with

[Hindsight]

I did my own. Turned out great. Took me probably 2 months of working on it most weekends and a handful of week nights. The only reason to DIY is to save money or if you want to put a number of things in non typical areas like i did. The vendirs could prob work with you on the latter though. Check my build thread for pics

[redfogo]

I did my own. Turned out great. Took me probably 2 months of working on it most weekends and a handful of week nights. The only reason to DIY is to save money or if you want to put a number of things in non typical areas like i did. The vendirs could prob work with you on the latter though. Check my build thread for pics

I second this I loved making my harness because I could go the extra mile and make it with fire proof sleeving, put everything the way I wanted it, and put things in places I felt would be most serviceable. If your not a fan of wiring step away and let someone else do it. It's a good amount of hard work and lots of time if you want to spend it. The plus side and why I recommend everyone build a harness is you will have no fear when something goes wrong. You will know exactly where to look and have no doubt on what could have gone wrong. Money saved was also a nice bonus. Iwire would be my second choice if I had not made my own with an Infinitybox. However Iwire wins hand down for easy no question asked install!

[jcpresto]

I'll add I did my own and had multiple issues resulting in a dozen phone calls 500+ wasted money at the dyno shop. I now have a working running harness and car, however I will be sending it out this fall as my frustration has ended and I have no desire to slim it down and look at wiring again. Wiring was on my budget as I'll do it my self and spend other money else where. Unless you love wiring I'd suggest either Iwire or Wayne VCP and put effort into the rest of the build which be can greatly improved.

[UnhipPopano]

I agree that if you have never worked with electrical circuits that to modify a Subaru harness is a very challenging project. In addition, doing the electrical system on the car may come at a time when motivation is low. On the other hand, doing this work is an opportunity to learn how the electrical systems work. Some people look forward to working on there own cars, while others expect to pay others to do the work and they are happy to show the car off and take credit for what they did on the car.

Also, I agree that the description of the iWire product is not accurate. They use new wire, connectors and other parts, as well as do an above average job of fit and finish.

[ben1272]

I was following Mechie3 (Craig) as he began dieting his own harness and then, after contacting him, learned that he was not getting his harness to look as good as he wanted and so turned to iWire. I admire Craig's skill's and capabilities greatly and know that if he was being challenged by the harness dieting, I was very likely going to be unhappy with my result! He was the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I just could not imagine spending 80-100 hours (or more) trying to make a nice harness out of the rat's nest of an OEM harness that comes with the WRX - especially with how much time I am spending trying to get everything else looking good. I STRONGLY suggest to anyone building this car that if they can budget the money, pay for an excellent harness. I bet resale is better on the finished vehicle and you WILL save time and nerves! I am an electrical engineer and the harness was daunting to me. If you cant spare the funds, you will get there but I would resist the temptation to rush it so you can turn the car on for the first time and I would try to make it as neat as possible. It will be much easier to troubleshoot problems later if you have a neat and tidy harness. It is great that there are a few options and a lot of forum assistance available!

[Samiam1017]

i have the VCP harness and haltech 1500 stand alone. i looked at the iwire harness but decided to go the stand alone route because i eventually will be running an ez30 and it would be an easier transition. waynes system also has traction control. it fits in the chassis very nicely and is extremely light weight. very high quality.

[Pearldrummer7]

Still stuck with the stock ECU needing the Accessport or a shop to tune.

I don't usually like arguing, especially with someone as knowledgeable as Wayne, but I use a Tactrix cable and Romraider software and can log/modify my tune anytime. No Accessport needed. My tuner is cool and has an unlocked tune that I can modify. I bring my laptop to the track and do this, no different a result than having a standalone ECU. You could even do the tune yourself if you had the skills.

I personally dieted mine for cost reasons (and I'm an electrical engineer and worked as an electrician...gotta tap into those skills whenever I can), but that depends on your confidence level. It started first try and I haven't modified the wiring since. That said- the iWire and VCP harnesses look really nice, and will save you significant time.

[Wayne Presley]

I don't usually like arguing, especially with someone as knowledgeable as Wayne, but I use a Tactrix cable and Romraider software and can log/modify my tune anytime. No Accessport needed. My tuner is cool and has an unlocked tune that I can modify. I bring my laptop to the track and do this, no different a result than having a standalone ECU. You could even do the tune yourself if you had the skills.

I personally dieted mine for cost reasons (and I'm an electrical engineer and worked as an electrician...gotta tap into those skills whenever I can), but that depends on your confidence level. It started first try and I haven't modified the wiring since. That said- the iWire and VCP harnesses look really nice, and will save you significant time.

I didn't list the Tactrix cable and ROMRaider software ( I have both) as it takes more knowledge and skill to tune than picking a MAF, injectors and other options like you can do in the Accessport. Frank with your tuner unlocking a tune that fits your parameters, tweaking the tune is relatively easy. But if you had to change all of the injector data (flow rate, battery offsets, min inj turn on time, etc.) and MAF transfer function or switch to speed density tune, that is way over most peoples skill level.

[redfogo]

I didn't list the Tactrix cable and ROMRaider software ( I have both) as it takes more knowledge and skill to tune than picking a MAF, injectors and other options like you can do in the Accessport. Frank with your tuner unlocking a tune that fits your parameters, tweaking the tune is relatively easy. But if you had to change all of the injector data (flow rate, battery offsets, min inj turn on time, etc.) and MAF transfer function or switch to speed density tune, that is way over most peoples skill level.

There is a large helpful community with romraider. Lots of free tunes/ base maps available with romraider. There is far more tuner support for romraider compared to stand alone within the subaru community. Also regardless if you use OEM or standalone upgrading core EFI parts will require tuning and setup and if you have no knowledge of how to do that you will be relying on a tuner to help you with configuration regardless.

In most cases standalone base maps are far from good enough to run the car at any high speed. So regardless of what standalone you buy you also have to add in the cost of tuning time which often costs $1500+.

[Mechie3]

I would strongly suggest that no matter what route you take that you essentially build it from scratch and make it purpose built (which is what iWire/VCP do). I didn't have the time or desire to do that but several others have and some documented it too.

IMO, the problem with dieting (if you really want it to look good) is that you're taking something intended to run from A to B to C and now it's running from A to C to B. Everything is going the wrong way. By the time you trim what needs to be trimmed and extend what needs to be extended you still have wires running back to front to back because of the OEM arrangement of the twin fuse boxes. It ends up being a mess with extra wires you don't need and excessive solder joints just waiting to fail.

iWire is a "dieted" harness. They reuse the engine to ECU portion of the harness (trimmed shorter) because it is going in the right direction. Everything else is built from new wire and loom.

[phil1734]

I probably had ~50 hours and $250 in connectors into my dieted one before sending it to iWire and it wasn't even done yet.

Haven't received it back yet but I have 100% confidence in Brian and crew from talking to him and researching some reviews. One thing he does that he should really do a better job of advertising is that there is a laundry list of options he gives you to make the harness into not just something that works but that you're glad to be using. Want a push button start? It's a no cost option. 3rd brake light, usb charger, etc.? Again, no charge options. Leads and switches for fog lights are $20 and you can pick your color switch and led indicator. I don't think you could buy the parts for that. Plus it's fully modular, which I'm not sure will be necessary but is certainly better have that capability built in from the start.

Wayne - do you still have to switch to a cable throttle for your harness? That's not to be overlooked, especially for anyone looking to capitalize on the huge gains a turbo/ETC combo can provide.

[Canadian818]

Has anyone beside aloha used a painless chassis harness and a stand alone? I don't recall seeing much of a write up on this setup. I'll be ordering my bits in a few weeks, perhaps I'll have to document it in detail.

[Pearldrummer7]

I didn't list the Tactrix cable and ROMRaider software ( I have both) as it takes more knowledge and skill to tune than picking a MAF, injectors and other options like you can do in the Accessport. Frank with your tuner unlocking a tune that fits your parameters, tweaking the tune is relatively easy. But if you had to change all of the injector data (flow rate, battery offsets, min inj turn on time, etc.) and MAF transfer function or switch to speed density tune, that is way over most peoples skill level.

Fair enough, but as redfogo says below, there is a lot of documentation out there on it. Honestly, I don't think it's as big an endeavor as say- building a kit car is. I think if any community is going to have DIY'ers doing tuning/wiring, it's gonna be the ones building their own cars. It might "take more knowledge and skill", but that hasn't scared me -or many others I know- away.

There is a large helpful community with romraider. Lots of free tunes/ base maps available with romraider. There is far more tuner support for romraider compared to stand alone within the subaru community. Also regardless if you use OEM or standalone upgrading core EFI parts will require tuning and setup and if you have no knowledge of how to do that you will be relying on a tuner to help you with configuration regardless.

In most cases standalone base maps are far from good enough to run the car at any high speed. So regardless of what standalone you buy you also have to add in the cost of tuning time which often costs $1500+.

This^^

I would strongly suggest that no matter what route you take that you essentially build it from scratch and make it purpose built (which is what iWire/VCP do). I didn't have the time or desire to do that but several others have and some documented it too.

IMO, the problem with dieting (if you really want it to look good) is that you're taking something intended to run from A to B to C and now it's running from A to C to B. Everything is going the wrong way. By the time you trim what needs to be trimmed and extend what needs to be extended you still have wires running back to front to back because of the OEM arrangement of the twin fuse boxes. It ends up being a mess with extra wires you don't need and excessive solder joints just waiting to fail.

iWire is a "dieted" harness. They reuse the engine to ECU portion of the harness (trimmed shorter) because it is going in the right direction. Everything else is built from new wire and loom.

I agree. I say it every time: Brian does a great job and the iWire harness is beautiful. So is Wayne's, of course. If I had the money, I'd have bought one of their harnesses for sure. But doing it myself taught me a LOT about the car. I don't regret it one bit (says the guy who ran into no issues after trimming half the harness away)

[Wayne Presley]

I probably had ~50 hours and $250 in connectors into my dieted one before sending it to iWire and it wasn't even done yet.

Wayne - do you still have to switch to a cable throttle for your harness? That's not to be overlooked, especially for anyone looking to capitalize on the huge gains a turbo/ETC combo can provide.

I can do the Drive By Wire with the Haltech so that it is a drop in for the 06-07 WRX

Has anyone beside aloha used a painless chassis harness and a stand alone? I don't recall seeing much of a write up on this setup. I'll be ordering my bits in a few weeks, perhaps I'll have to document it in detail.

That is basically what I do with my set up.

Fair enough, but as redfogo says below, there is a lot of documentation out there on it. Honestly, I don't think it's as big an endeavor as say- building a kit car is. I think if any community is going to have DIY'ers doing tuning/wiring, it's gonna be the ones building their own cars. It might "take more knowledge and skill", but that hasn't scared me -or many others I know- away.

It is a risk vs reward. Could you enter an errant value or two and hurt the motor, absolutely. I've spent the last 12 years tuning EFI systems and it takes me a while to figure out how to get each software to get it to do what I want.



On a side note, I just did a cable throttle 818 with a Microsquirt. It worked great and I can do a harness with this ECU for $1400. Works for cable throttle and non AVCS motors.

[Canadian818]

That is basically what I do with my set up.

I realize that and no one expects you to do a write up on the process, as its part of your livelihood. However would you be able to recommend a painless harness for the 818? I believe Aloha used a 26 circuit off-road harness, but I believe that was overkill.

[Wayne Presley]

26 circuits is way overkill, choose how many circuits you are going to need and then pick the Painless harness you want.

[jaw777]

I tried dieting mine myself and it turned into a disaster. I can't speak to the other systems, but iWire did a great job fixing my mess (spent months on it) and provided follow up support.

[ben1272]

Fair enough, but as redfogo says below, there is a lot of documentation out there on it. Honestly, I don't think it's as big an endeavor as say- building a kit car is. I think if any community is going to have DIY'ers doing tuning/wiring, it's gonna be the ones building their own cars. It might "take more knowledge and skill", but that hasn't scared me -or many others I know- away.



This^^


I agree. I say it every time: Brian does a great job and the iWire harness is beautiful. So is Wayne's, of course. If I had the money, I'd have bought one of their harnesses for sure. But doing it myself taught me a LOT about the car. I don't regret it one bit (says the guy who ran into no issues after trimming half the harness away)

To all the guys who diet their harnesses and/or roll their own, I say more power to them! It is quite an accomplishment in my eyes and any bragging rights are well earned.

[SoCalK61000]

Thanks for all the input guys, Been In contact with iWire on and off over the last few days and there customer service is pretty dam good to say the least..............

Still undecided about the route im gonna take Id really like to have the ability to go flex fuel but looking like thats not gonna happen on the subi ecu so basically im still in the same undecided boat lol.