2015 f150 coyote engine harness

[Lx5.4]

Hello, I'm new to the forum. I'm trying the swap in a fox body mustang, I know I'm in the wrong place, but you folks I seen and done more of these engine installs than on any other forum. I just got my hands on a 2015 coyote out of a f150 which included the engine harness, dirt cheap! Everything I have heard and read I will need to ditch it and run one for a mustang. Is this true or do I have to modify it to work? If I can make it work does anyone know what I need to do to it?

And! Can anyone tell me where the I need to hook the engine wire harness ground need to be grounded to? Second, there seems to be a round plug that might have hooked up to the tranny wire harness, is my thought process correct?

Thanks for any help any one can give me!

[edwardb]

Most of us here are running the Ford Racing Coyote crate motor controls pack. Even when using an F150 or Mustang engine take-out. Not sure how much experience there will be with what you're doing.

[Lx5.4]

Thanks, I have the control pack, but what is everyone running on the engine part? Did you keep the f150 takeout engine harness or did you get the ford motorsports replacement harness?

Have another question, which accessory kits are most of you running? I'm thinking the simplest way is the best, just install krc power steering kit, but it looks as if they have two different kits for this engine, which has people ran in your car? Roush just looks like they are coming out with their own kit but can't find any info, has anyone seen it or ran it's?

By the way to everyone, even though it's not a ff car. What everyone has posted has helped me in my swap, so please don't worry about the difference between the cars.

[johngeorge]

For my 2013 f150 takeout, I used the engine harness that came with it, and simply plugged in the big connector, and the smaller connector in the coyote control pack harness. Whatever ground are on the f150 harness must be grounded appropriately.

[q4stix]

I also have a F150 Coyote takeout and I can confirm that there are differences between it and the 2014 and earlier models. Here's something I spotted and posted in my build thread:


It looks like the new plug (and by proxy the controls pack), has wiring added for the CMCV hardware and sensors in the new intake setup. As far as I can tell, that's the main difference in the main plug.

When you say "did you get the ford motorsports replacement harness?", which part number are you referring to?

Since I'm using an AEM Infinity standalone, I swapped the harness for the earlier model year crate engine harness to save myself tons of rewiring. Comparing the location of things, there is a single wire sensor and plug attached the DS intake cam position sensor which looks to be located on the PS intake cam position sensor in earlier years based on the harness. This should be in the same location for the Mustang harness.

You will find that the oil pressure and oil temp sensors are different between the Mustang GT and the F150 as well as the oil cooler, front timing cover, alternator, and the round plug on the harness you mentioned. I'm pretty sure the controls pack can still work with the F150 alternator (which is different than the GT both in location and pulley alignment). The oil cooler has two separate sensors on the F150 and a combined one Mustang. It possible to swap out the oil cooler and it may be possible to splice the wiring harness with the correct plug for the Mustang sensor there.

When I get home, I'll take a look at the circular plug and where it leads. It may be that you can simply remove it if they are solely dedicated to the transmission. Still, I'll try to trace the routing.

Oh, and as for internal differences, I believe it comes down to the intake cam and the half point lower compression pistons. Both can be accounted for with a tune. You can either swap out the intake cams with the stock Mustang ones and leave the stock tune since the slightly lower compression will decrease power, but shouldn't be likely to cause damage.

[mikepward]

I saw a company on ebay (wont say it here since I don't know if they are a vendor) that is selling coyote mustang motors, and he offers to flash the factory computer to remove the PATS, he offers either the Ford Motorsports harness for like $1600 or offers his own harness for $800 for stand alone coyote.

Has anybody done business with this guy, or heard of anyone successfully flashing out the PATS and modifying the factory harness instead of buying the controls pack?

I have build several oother vehicles using LS1 junk yard swaps and had a guy that would flash computer and modify the harness for about $300 1 week turn around. I have been looking all over the internet and cannot find anyone else claiming to do that for the coyote.

Seems such a waste to buy an whole new computer and new wiring harness when there is one from a donor if you go the junkyard route.

[Lx5.4]

I saw a company on ebay (wont say it here since I don't know if they are a vendor) that is selling coyote mustang motors, and he offers to flash the factory computer to remove the PATS, he offers either the Ford Motorsports harness for like $1600 or offers his own harness for $800 for stand alone coyote.

Has anybody done business with this guy, or heard of anyone successfully flashing out the PATS and modifying the factory harness instead of buying the controls pack?

I have build several oother vehicles using LS1 junk yard swaps and had a guy that would flash computer and modify the harness for about $300 1 week turn around. I have been looking all over the internet and cannot find anyone else claiming to do that for the coyote.

Seems such a waste to buy an whole new computer and new wiring harness when there is one from a donor if you go the junkyard route.

I too have seen that company, don't know how he past the pats, since non off the other program companies are having a difficult time at it.

[Lx5.4]

I also have a F150 Coyote takeout and I can confirm that there are differences between it and the 2014 and earlier models. Here's something I spotted and posted in my build thread:


It looks like the new plug (and by proxy the controls pack), has wiring added for the CMCV hardware and sensors in the new intake setup. As far as I can tell, that's the main difference in the main plug.

When you say "did you get the ford motorsports replacement harness?", which part number are you referring to?

Since I'm using an AEM Infinity standalone, I swapped the harness for the earlier model year crate engine harness to save myself tons of rewiring. Comparing the location of things, there is a single wire sensor and plug attached the DS intake cam position sensor which looks to be located on the PS intake cam position sensor in earlier years based on the harness. This should be in the same location for the Mustang harness.

You will find that the oil pressure and oil temp sensors are different between the Mustang GT and the F150 as well as the oil cooler, front timing cover, alternator, and the round plug on the harness you mentioned. I'm pretty sure the controls pack can still work with the F150 alternator (which is different than the GT both in location and pulley alignment). The oil cooler has two separate sensors on the F150 and a combined one Mustang. It possible to swap out the oil cooler and it may be possible to splice the wiring harness with the correct plug for the Mustang sensor there.

When I get home, I'll take a look at the circular plug and where it leads. It may be that you can simply remove it if they are solely dedicated to the transmission. Still, I'll try to trace the routing.

Oh, and as for internal differences, I believe it comes down to the intake cam and the half point lower compression pistons. Both can be accounted for with a tune. You can either swap out the intake cams with the stock Mustang ones and leave the stock tune since the slightly lower compression will decrease power, but shouldn't be likely to cause damage.

This is not what I really wanted to hear. I thought I was ahead of the game by getting the engine harness, and the cooler. The timing cover I knew I was going to have to change because the f150 places the alternator right in line with expectations my sway bar. Not good for a street car.

As for the mentioned ford replacement harness, the part # is fu5z-12a581-e

Well I wonder if I could do some trading of cover and harness for some other parts that I will need.

Has anyone one ever got an email address for ford tech line to ask questions with there control pack?

[Lx5.4]

Has anyone ever heard that the f150 has a different firing order than the mustang?

[Misterfubar]

Has anyone ever heard that the f150 has a different firing order than the mustang?

All the 5.0 motors should be the same 1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2, which is a change from the older Modular motors which are 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8

[Lx5.4]

That's what I thought, some dick weed on a different forum clams that the truck firing order is different than the mustang version. This is why I have come to you folks for help and REAL answers. I know my build is different from you folks, but when you get down to it they both have four wheels and a frame. Yes the body might be different but that's about it in my eyes.

Thanks everyone!

[turbomacncheese]

Don't hold back, tell us how you REALLY feel!!!

[q4stix]

^haha! I feel his pain since I've been trying to track down a lot of information on every forum I can find

The new Mustang GT and F150 have the same block, the same crank, and even the same exhaust cam. As confirmed above, the firing order is the same for your block. Ford even says in their literature that a F150 takeout will work with a tune to adjust for the compression (and cam) change. The GT350 motor is a different beast with a different firing order.

Oh, and I forgot to mention above. You may need to be prepared to switch the alternator when you switch the timing cover. I can't say definitively, but I seem to remember another user finding out the Boss 302 alternator did not work with the F150 timing cover so that implies that the F150 alternator will not work with the Mustang GT timing cover. I'll be finding this out for myself shortly too but you may beat me to the install.

[Lx5.4]

I'm at a stopping point at the moment from buying anything, don't know if I need to buy the engine harness for the mustang or not. As for the accessories I didn't get any of them so I trying to figure that one out too. Has anyone used the KRC power steering bracket kit on a f150 timing cover? Tried emailing KRC to ask them but no one has gotten back to me. I was planning on using their kit, so it all depends on if I have to go with the mustang one or if I can use the f150 timing cover for the accessories.

[mikepward]

I know the T45 bell housing will bolt up to the F150 coyote, any chance the 4.6 donor flywheel and clutch will all work on the F150 motor?

[Lx5.4]

From what I have read, the clutch will, but the flywheel needs a spacer due to the crank sensor being on the backside of the motor. I'm just wondering if my clutch from my push rod motor would work, since it's new. I will let others help us out, though.

[johngeorge]

I'm at a stopping point at the moment from buying anything, don't know if I need to buy the engine harness for the mustang or not. As for the accessories I didn't get any of them so I trying to figure that one out too. Has anyone used the KRC power steering bracket kit on a f150 timing cover? Tried emailing KRC to ask them but no one has gotten back to me. I was planning on using their kit, so it all depends on if I have to go with the mustang one or if I can use the f150 timing cover for the accessories.

My f150 is using krc coyote kit! no issues.

[q4stix]

Regarding the F150 vs Mustang harness with the control pack, even Ford's own website is slightly confusing.

Designed to run 2015-16 5.0L 4V Coyote engines, M-6007-M50A and M-6007-A50NAA 5.0L 4V Ti-VCT crate engines with manual transmission. M-6007-A50SCA and truck engines require modifications, call Ford Performance Techline @ 800-FORD788 for more information.
Includes PCM with Ford Performance calibration, Supercharged, M-6007-A50SCA and truck engines require custom calibration
.....
NOTE: Not for use with a 2015-2016 F150 Engine.

So two lines that say it should be fine, then the last line says no. Calling the number above seems like the way to go.

I'll be purchasing a Mustang timing cover for my build after a while, but I thought it was mainly different to re-position the alternator further out on the F150.

[Lx5.4]

^^^^ now you know my delima. I think I will be getting the mustang harness just to be on the safe side, found a couple place selling them dirt cheap. And the mustang cover so I don't have any interference issues.

[Lx5.4]

So, I finally got some true answers to my situation. So I need to get mustang cams, all 4. The wire harness I have will work just fine, but to simplify things I was told to use the mustang harness. The reason for the cams, ford engineers decided to change fire order of two cylinders. Go figure can't leave things alone.

[q4stix]

I'd take the comment about a revised firing order with a grain of salt. I never heard of a firing order change and it seems strange that Ford would change firing order within an engine family (that's not to say it can't be done). It does look like the cams have unique part numbers between the Mustang and the F150 now, but that could also be due to a revised cam grind.

On the bright side, if you do switch out the cams, you'll get GT performance and not have to worry at all about the firing order difference.

[johngeorge]

All,

The differences between F150 and mustang block I have been told is timing cover, intake cams, cast exhaust manifolds, and lower compression. Exhaust cams are the same, and the same firing order for sure.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_M....C2.A0L_Coyote

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/28/d...-v8/#continued

[q4stix]

The differences between F150 and mustang block I have been told is timing cover, intake cams, cast exhaust manifolds, and lower compression. Exhaust cams are the same, and the same firing order for sure.

I know that's true of the 2011-2014 engine, but they changed to unique camshafts for both the intake and exhaust for the GT and the F150 for the 2015+ model years. This is confirmed with Ford's part website (up to 2014 shows the same part number, 2015+ shows different). I was unaware of the part number difference until last night too. I still doubt the firing order changed unless someone in Ford had a really, really good reason

[Lx5.4]

I asked why they would have done it, the tech said in preparation of the gt350. I told him that was a dumb reason. He agreed and said that engineers and tech don't get along so the tech where moved to the other side of town. I have emailed a couple engine builders, but no one has got back with me yet.

[q4stix]

Since there's been a lot of bits and pieces of information, I decided to go and compile what I can find. *It does look like Ford changed the firing order on the F-150 Coyote only for the 2015+ model year back to the old modular V8 firing order*

To help anyone in the future, I may create a separate thread in the Coyote forum or guide of what parts are common or what changed between models and years since this has been an issue to track down.
Pulled from Ford's owner manuals:


Here are the camshaft part numbers for the Mustang GT and F-150 for the various model years:

	Mustang		F-150
2011-2014
Firing Order	1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2		1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2
Compression Ratio	11:1		10.5:1
Intake Cam L	BR3Z6250F		BL3Z6250G
Intake Cam R	BR3Z6250E		BL3Z6250H
Exhaust Cam L	BR3Z6250H		BR3Z6250H
Exhaust Cam R	BR3Z6250G		BR3Z6250G
2015-2016
Firing Order	1-5-4-8-6-3-7-2		1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8
Compression Ratio	11:1		10.5:1
Intake Cam L	FR3Z6250B		FL3Z6250B
Intake Cam R	FR3Z6250A		FL3Z6250A
Exhaust Cam L	FR3Z6250C		FL3Z6250D
Exhaust Cam R	FR3Z6250D		FL3Z6250C

[Lx5.4]

Thank you so much. That just solves everything. I need mustang cams. If anyone has or knows of anyone that is willing to sell theirs I'm interested.

[johngeorge]

q4stix, thanks for putting together all that great info!

[q4stix]

You're both welcome! I've got a 2015 F-150 take-out so it impacts me too. I can only imagine how often this question will come up in the future too.

I would have sworn, and would have put money on the line, that they did the same as the 2011-2014 range just like you thought. This thread will end up saving me a lot of time and frustration trying to get my AEM Infinity running too (I'll update the firing order in the Infinity software instead of replacing the cams right away).

[Lx5.4]

Well a guy hooked me up with a quad set of brand new set for $275 straight from ford. I'm happy once more. Just wish I didn't have to buy all four. Just waiting on parts now. Still trying to figure out if I want to keep the f150 timing cover or go with the mustang one, and if I want to use the PBH setup or go with the KRC kit. Who has which one and how did/ how have you liked it? Let me know.

[frd2]

I had been planning on using the F150 version of the coyote for the obvious $$ reasons, and had planned on the 2015 version to get the few extra HP for not much more money.

Am I reading this info correctly that even using the ford racing ECU, I will be forced to swap out the 4 cams to correct the different firing order?

Starts adding more $$ to the extra HP I was hoping to get for almost free........

[Lx5.4]

You read all that correct. I had the same thought, new motor brings more hp, right? Well it does but it also come with bigger issues.

I did talk to the guys at powerbyhour, now this is what they told me. If I ditch the cmcv on the intake on run the 11'- 14' engine harness I can use their wire/computer harness. Here's the deal breaker though, their setup starts at just $1k, BUT you have to start adding things and you end up at around $2k. At that price you can go with an AEM, Holley, etc. aftermarket computer.

Now if you shop around you can still do it for pretty cheap. I picked up my engine for $2750, shipped; ford computer pack for a steal, $1375; gt cams for $300 new from ford. 15' gt engine harness (must use no matter what) for $125 new from ford. So it can be done but you have got to be willing to shop around and and haggle with them. The biggest thing be patient!

[boBQuincy]

So if the firing order is different and it is only because of the cams, could the connectors to the injectors and the coils be swapped around and all would be happy again?
One reason for the firing order change may be to improve exhaust flow with the F-150 manifolds?

[q4stix]

So if the firing order is different and it is only because of the cams, could the connectors to the injectors and the coils be swapped around and all would be happy again?
One reason for the firing order change may be to improve exhaust flow with the F-150 manifolds?

Changing the coils and injectors would only work if the degrees of rotation matched up with the new firing order sequence.

*edit for 2/21 - This will work with a 90 degree bank V8 which is identical to the Coyote V8. I made the comments below incorrectly thinking it was a 60 degree bank. My apologies!*
In this case, I believe what I worked out below shows it will not work.

2011-2014 Firing Order and Degree of Crank Rotation for TDC
1 - 5 - 4 - 8 - 6 - 3 - 7 - 2
0 60 180 240 330 450 510 630 (720 for Cyl 1 again)

2015+ Firing Order and Degree of Crank Rotation for TDC
1 - 3 - 7 - 2 - 6 - 5 - 4 - 8
0 90 150 270 330 420 540 600 (720 for Cyl 1 again)

[frd2]

Careful on the firing order swap math -

If the crank shaft is the same they are swapping the compression stroke for the exhaust stroke. (And intake with firing)

in other words - subtract (or add) 360 deg to your firing order table above and it works

i.e. - Cylinder #3 is at 450 deg

subtract 360 deg and it is at 90 deg

the math works

no clue if swapping coils / injectors (wiring) works...........

[q4stix]

Hmm, I was pretty sure I checked that. Do you see an error or was that a general statement? I'll readily admit I make mistakes and I'm open to getting corrected

What I listed above (assuming correct) would show that it would no work.

[frd2]

ahhhh - after re-reading -

they cylinders swap 360 deg with themselves, but since the degrees rotation between each cylinder firing is not always the same, some would fire way off mark vs intended timing.......

oh well - math is hard!

[q4stix]

Just to circle back on the above. My math was correct but I got the bank angle incorrect (that was a typical V6 bank angle). The Coyote is a 90 degree V8 which does put a cylinder firing at 90 degree intervals. I greyed out the info above to help avoid confusion from my mistake.

[Lx5.4]

Sorry everyone been a little busy at work, everyone is talking about changing the injectors and coil plugs, to correct the the fire order problem? Well when I talked to the for tech some time back, I asked the same question about flopping the wire harness around. He told me that it wouldn't work and the only way to fix the issue is by swapping out the cams. I found a ford dealership that sells them dirt cheap. All told I spent $375 for four gt cams and a 15-17 gt engine harness. No sweat all already have everything installed in the engine, just hope it fixed everything. now just waiting on some other parts that I need to really start my project.

[Kerry & Kathy]

I found a ford dealership that sells them dirt cheap. All told I spent $375 for four gt cams and a 15-17 gt engine harness.

Can you share the GT intake cam part number and the dealer who has them?

[q4stix]

Can you share the GT intake cam part number and the dealer who has them?

For a 2011-2014, it's just the intake cams (left and right), but for 2015 all the cams need replaced.
I put all the part numbers above in post #25 of this thread.


@Lx5.4: I agree the wiring modification isn't the way to go. Functionally it would work if all the feedback loops (knock, O2 sensors, etc) were disabled, but that completely defeats the best aspects of these engines and electronic control. I think you took the best path forward and have nearly a GT setup and performance for half the cost.