818 Project Updates From Dave

[jimgood]

White is easy to make look pretty but hard to make without air voids using our existing procedures.

Bummer. Well, I guess I'll just have to make do. At least plain white paint is cheap. In fact, I have some leftover cans of Behr Ultra Pure White from when we painted our ceilings.

[jimgood]

FYI...in the not to distant future you may see a clear coat product that will eliminate the need to wash your car. NASA is working on a biomimicking project that acts like the naturally repellent characteristics of certain water plants; basically self-cleaning.

That's interesting but I don't want to have to feed my car plant food on top of everything else.

[16g-95gsx]

Dave, could you give us some insight into what your current concept of a "track" model is? I am just curious what you feel stands a track model apart from the standard roadster model? I know at this point it's early in the game but I am trying to gauge where your thought process is heading.

[mn_vette]

Dave,

So when I think Swatch Watch I think interchangeable. So would I be able to get a roadster kit and then later "upgrade" to the coupe body? It would be really nice if they were quickly interchangeable, but pannel and door alignment would not allow for that. It would still be cool to swtich back and forth, maybe a summer and winter body.

[slopoke]

just get one of each ...

[Texan_GTM]

Dave, could you give us some insight into what your current concept of a "track" model is? I am just curious what you feel stands a track model apart from the standard roadster model? I know at this point it's early in the game but I am trying to gauge where your thought process is heading.

+1, I would love to know which design will be which. Like, for example, which will be road, which will be track, and which will be economy.

[Seagondollar]

I'm partial to red, but my wife complains that folks don't seem to see my red 88 MR2, so an alternate might be a dayglow yellow or orange.

[BipDBo]

Bummer. Well, I guess I'll just have to make do. At least plain white paint is cheap. In fact, I have some leftover cans of Behr Ultra Pure White from when we painted our ceilings.

I think that comment should earn you a restraining order to not come within 500 ft of any Factory Five product.

[kach22i]

I think he was joking, and should have put the font in a green color to indicate sarcasm.

In my opinion, white is a fine color for an appliance. However there are a few exceptions.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x...cpZZ2QQtppZZ20




Spaceship11226768912.jpg

[olpro]

Cars with crisp forms often look good in white. Cars with rounded forms sometimes look like a bar of soap. I suppose every car design has its good and bad colors.

[thebeerbaron]

This does not look like a bar of soap.



Never thought of it in terms of crisp vs round, but I think I can see that. Elise is round in places, but has "sharp" edges. The black accents help.

I think pearl white looks dingy. I don't think it works on that Vector (which I can't believe is actually moving under its own power!). If I think of it in terms of photography, white pearl paint reduces the contrast of the car as a whole, so lines and curves need to be sharper to increase shadow depth to make up for it. Seeing that I don't think this works on the angular Vector, maybe I don't think white pearl works on any car.

Anyhow, I still suggest radioactive green, though I wouldn't be unhappy with the World Rally Blue from the donor...

[kach22i]

Cars with crisp forms often look good in white. Cars with rounded forms sometimes look like a bar of soap. I suppose every car design has its good and bad colors.

Great observation Olpro.

A white Lotus Exige in Ann Arbor only looks as good as it does because of all the black accents/grilles on it.

The Storm-Trooper Elise is rather non form revealing in my opinion.

[Flamshackle]

I would have mine in pearl white in a second! throw some black around and it looks flamin sharp!
PB200114.jpg


Colours wise the most popular colour by VAST majority in the world is blue :~) so if its admirers you want then paint it a lovely Blue and your done..
However if its what YOU want then paint it however YOU want :~)

Pearl white with black bits and bobs looks ace IMHO just like black with chrome touches (rim edges ect) looks the buisiness...

[D2W]

I love the white with black accent look. It has that James Bond white tux "I'm bad@$$" look.

[ScottKoschwitz]

I can't say that I'm the biggest fan of white. However, if a car can look good in white, it can look good in any color. I've been on a big blue kick lately. Lotus had a beautiful Nightfall Blue Metallic on the Elise for the first couple of years, and the Le Mans Blue on the Corvette is really nice. Of course, British Racing Green is always a favorite.

[Texan_GTM]

What about laguna seca blue on the E46 M3?

[2KWIK4U]

So I guess you can pick a color that is "acceptable" to you and later paint it whatever you like. Sounds like a win situation, especially for a person as color blind as me!!

[Steve91T]

Exactly. But the kit, build it, drive it until you save up enough money for a paint job. Leguna Seca blue really is a pretty color. That would look pretty sweet.

Also Stacy David's Copperhead color would be pretty cool! Sure would be different.


http://staceydavid.com/projects/copperhead

[TRex]

According to DuPont, the most popular car color is (drum roll plz)... Silver!!

http://www2.dupont.com/Media_Center/...e20101208.html

The top 10 global vehicle colors are as follows:

1. Silver – 26%
2. Black/Black Effect – 24%
3. White/White Pearl and Gray – 16% each (tie)
5. Red – 6%
6. Blue – 5%
7. Brown/Beige – 3%
8. Green – 2%
9. Yellow/Gold – 1%
10. Others – <1%

So... which one guys?? Personally I like White better!

[Oppenheimer]

FYI...in the not to distant future you may see a clear coat product that will eliminate the need to wash your car. NASA is working on a biomimicking project that acts like the naturally repellent characteristics of certain water plants; basically self-cleaning.

I recall hearing about that idea many, many years ago. Its still not here. So I'm not holding my breath for it.

[Oppenheimer]

I can see my comments are either not being understood or not being welcomed or both. When I hear that FFR is building a kit like the roadster (I've been referring to it as Version 1.0) but with a roof, then I will get excited. Sorry To get everyone upset. If one of Dave's repeat customers telling him what he would like to buy causes him to lose enthusiasm as some of you have said (Don't worry Dave, I know that won't happen) that is OK by me.

I apologize if my comments sounded like I was attacking your position, that was not my intent. Perhaps we all have a little 'oldpro' in us from time to time

Perhaps I did misunderstand you. But from what I think I did understand, the basic concern has to do with lack of a top (not sure if there was also a '3 design winners are not what we want' aspect to your post - Dave has said, both before and after contest, winning designs and what they decide to build are in no way dependant on each other). Dave has said the car will have a top. Does that mean all 3 designs will have a top? I don't think even Dave is sure on that yet. On day 1, when the first design is initially offered for sale, will it have a top? I think Dave is hinting maybe not, that would be offered later.

But I think Dave is going to wait and see on that. My thinking is if they can possibly get it done in time, it will be an available option day 1. But Dave is being wise not to commit himself to that right now.

[Nativo]

Hello Guys;
Are there any Headroom/Legroom number yet for the 818. As a 260LBS 6'3" driver my concern is space. Also being from the Caribbean where we get our share of rain and heat perhaps the Coupe might be the ideal body as long as it has a good A/C and allows me to fit with the helmet on.


Thanks,

[thebeerbaron]

As a 260LBS 6'3" driver my concern is space.

I believe "wookie compatible" is a stated design parameter. As far as HVAC, that's several items down on the "things we don't know about yet" list.

[olpro]

>>>Perhaps we all have a little 'oldpro' in us from time to time<<<

Only if you are lucky

[riptide motorsport]

Ha ha ha !!!

[ehansen007]

[BipDBo]

My white bar of soap


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I don't see a bar of soap. I see a suppository. Maybe I should go talk to my shrink.

[Nativo]

I believe "wookie compatible" is a stated design parameter. As far as HVAC, that's several items down on the "things we don't know about yet" list.

Thanks thebeerbaron:
My concern comes from the fact that I do not fit comfortably in a GTM much less with a helmet on. Now that I'm so exited about this 818 I just hope I can be one of the lucky ones to have one and fit in it dry and comfortable in it.

[Flamshackle]

Mate if you have fitment issues then I will have worse! im 6f4 so hoping for a workable solution other than mounting the seats directly to the tarmac! "wookie compatible" covers us I hope

[2KWIK4U]

Mate if you have fitment issues then I will have worse! im 6f4 so hoping for a workable solution other than mounting the seats directly to the tarmac! "wookie compatible" covers us I hope

Yes, lets hear it for being "wookie compatible" for I am a wookie too!

[305mouse]

Hi Dave, I'm sure you're swamped and everybody wants to talk to you. Have a couple questions/concerns. For the track version, why can't all three chassis' be the same? That'll save time in production and possibly costs overall. Then you'll just have to add the cage (unless that's the change you had in mind to the chassis) and upgrade the brakes, coilovers and body. If we purchase a "base" model, would you offer a cage option that could be welded in? Also, you mentioned the base model would be with the Impreza. Would we be able to use a WRX or STI engine with the base model? Only change would be need for cooling of the intercooler and plumbing for the exhaust with the turbo. Not sure if the base bodywork would have vents or a scoop or anything do direct air to the intercooler. Also, some people have mentioned the STI 6mt. This would be nice for some people. Have you looked into this at all to see what it would take to make this work? The 6mt can take a lot more abuse than a 5mt with ppg's. If someone does autox events, the 5 mt will be fine, but track people will probably find the 6mt to be beneficial. Thanks

[Niburu]

305mouse, take some time and read through the forum, ALL of your points have been and are currently discussed.
Some of them even have their own threads.
Also you may be confusing bodies with chassis, they are seperate entities in this case.

[305mouse]

I have read all the threads for the 818, I know the Subies quite well. A lot of people have chimed in about questions I brought up, but Dave hasn't. I'm not confusing bodies with chassis. He stated a thrid option would have, to paraphrase it, a beefier chassis/cage. So in my opinion that means more than just a 6/8/10/infinity point cage. Also, the "Impreza" would be the base for the budget goals. I know more details will have to follow and waiting for the models to be done up. Who knows how this swatch-watch concept will look or pan out. They are busier than hell right now with all the shows and events they go to over the Summer. So there's so much speculation and they're trying to fit this in a crazy time crunch. Just cause I just joined this forum doesn't mean I'm a "noob". Until a detailed list/model is done, all bets are off. I would like a "Base" model, drop in a built EJ255 with a small VF turbo and get a weld in cage down the road if it's an option. We'll just have to see how they are going to build it. Since Dave said he likes the feedback from us, I wanted to ask a few questions. I'm not even gonna bring up the tranny, cause there is a thread for that, and again, Dave hasn't chimed in, he's busy.

[Steve91T]

Mouse, I understand that just because you don't have many posts doesn't mean you are a noob and haven't been doing reading. But these questions honestly have been talked about. Dave answers what he can, and as many have pointed out, he can't spill too much of what's going on. It's business.

You questions about intake vents for cooling has absolutely been beaten to death. I know, I was a part of it. Everyone is aware that a lot of air is required in the rear of the car for the IC. Radiator will most likely be up front, which is preferred.

A lot of people thought the STI wouldn't work because it's too difficult to convert to RWD. But this has been proven to be false. I have no doubts that there will be STI 818's running around. But being that this car is going to be very tight on budget, I have a feeling some modification will be required, which isn't a problem for a lot of people.

As far as the strength of the tranny....if someone has enough money to build an engine powerful enough to break the tranny, they have enough money to rebuild it with stronger gears.

Also, as far as the difference between the street version and the track version, check out the roadster (I'm sure you have already). It'll probably have similar differences.

[kach22i]

a lot of air is required in the rear of the car for the IC.

A nice summation of facts Steve91T, the quote above makes me feel better about liking the designs featuring large side intakes, over cleaner designs relying on drawing air in the top rear deck. It takes power to draw air through a negative air pressure area. For an example just look at the fan on an old air-cooled 911, I'll admit a rather extreme example.

[Steve91T]

Here's an example to compare to. This is a pic of an MR2 that I had about 4 years ago. These side vents were not large enough to pull enough air to keep the IC cool. Some people actually made scoops, which worked a lot better, but just didn't look right on the car. The other problem was that the intercooler sat right next to the turbo down pipe. You just can't have too much air feeding the intercooler.

It's hard to see, but the IC is on the right side of the engine bay, and the intake is on the left.







My MR2 was making 270 rwhp and had an aftermarket intercooler. I still had problems keeping it cool on the race track, or in stop and go traffic. Some of the designs submitted had very large side vents that were designed in a way that they really didn't look that large. I just really hope that I'm not going to be sitting there, building my 818, trying to figure out how to get more air to the IC.

[jimgood]

I'm not even gonna bring up the tranny, cause there is a thread for that, and again, Dave hasn't chimed in, he's busy.

As far as the strength of the tranny....if someone has enough money to build an engine powerful enough to break the tranny, they have enough money to rebuild it with stronger gears.

I really don't get the concern about the tranny. Guys that are breaking trannies are most likely doing it in high horsepower, WRXs or STis doing AWD drag launches. There will be a huge difference in the amount of driveline shock one can develop in one of those 3100 lb cars with AWD vs the 1800 lb RWD 818.

[Oppenheimer]

I really don't get the concern about the tranny. Guys that are breaking trannies are most likely doing it in high horsepower, WRXs or STis doing AWD drag launches. There will be a huge difference in the amount of driveline shock one can develop in one of those 3100 lb cars with AWD vs the 1800 lb RWD 818.

I agree. For the typical, rational guy building an 818, a WRX motor with a few sensible mods will have all the thrust one would want in a street car, yet no where near enough to be detrimental to the tranny in this application (without driving stoopit).

Will there be guys with mega hp that need to worry about their tranny? Probably, but once you are into that territory, finding ways to get the 6 sp to work or getting hardened gears for the 5 sp or whatever would not be much additional burden. Asking FFR to design things so the 6 sp is a drop-in option just for the few that will be exploring the outer bounderies doesn't seem like a good use of resources.

This all reminds me of guys at a car show that will never build their own car chastising someones Roadster with a built 351 saying 'if I ever build a Cobr* it will have to have a big block'. The gut reaction of many (especially those from the Subie crowd) is going to be 'must have 6 sp' (and STi motor and Brembos, etc), even though these will be overkill.

Its understandable since we're talking about building a dream car. It takes rational thought to realize how much is enough. We're going to have to get used to people showing up and initially being critical that the standard options don't include all STi pieces.

[kach22i]

I just really hope that I'm NOT going to be sitting there, building my 818, trying to figure out how to get more air to the IC.

Fixed it for you.

[Steve91T]

Thanks! Fixed mine as well. Details....