65 coupe Gen 3 "Phoenix" build

[nkw8181]

Ladies and gents, it is time for another build!! Not only am I building a Gen 3 but have the honor and privilege of giving the prototype new life. Hence the cars name "Phoenix" since the car will be reborn a street car. Below is one of the pictures from Hot Rod Magazine.

IMG_20170130_1718085-B-300x225.jpg

http://www.hotrod.com/articles/insid...type-65-coupe/

So a few things that are different from the pics and the article.

- The wheels are different, they are 18x11" vintage Halibrand replica wheels on all four corners
- The engine (with supercharger) and transmission stay unchanged
- I am not touching the body! It is perfect the way it is. other then adding windshield wipers and a licence plate light ( and possibly a rear view camera that
integrates into the mirror).
I also want to look more into the protective clear wraps in order to protect the paint job
- The new frame will be white rather then black and have IRS
- Wilwood brakes all around but if they will fit ( waiting on conformation) I want to upgrade to the 14" rotors.
- I am debating power steering using a Toyota 2000-2005 MR2 spider electro-hydraulic power steering pump.
- A/C is also up in the air. need to do more research on if it fits with the supercharger though I may just determine to leave P/S and A/C off.
- interior carpet.
- current plan is powder coating the aluminum a gray and painting the suspension components with G2 caliper paint ( haven't picked a color)
- Interior will get lizard skin applied before carpet is put down.
- Ceramic coat the long tube heads and exhaust
- upgrade oil pump gears ( if my research points me this way)

Ok I think that is all that I can think of for now. Oh and the build finish date is 11/18!! so I will have the Prototype car, New frame and who knows how may boxes around thanksgiving!

[CraigS]

This will be fun to watch. On the PS, have you seen this?
http://www.fastfreddiesfabrications....?id_category=4
Re: AC. Since you live in Dallas I think AC is mandatory. Personally I rather lose the supercharger than PS and AC.

[nkw8181]

No I hadn't, I'll look into it deeper.

See I'm the opposite, the supercharger will stay regardless. Ps and a/c are the optional bit. If I go without a/c then I might look into the scoops over the feet wells and make them functional. I drove the 818 in the summer and I think the scoops behind the door will bring in a lot of air. We shall see we shall see.

[nkw8181]

I can't find how many amps it pulls. any idea?

This will be fun to watch. On the PS, have you seen this?
http://www.fastfreddiesfabrications....?id_category=4
Re: AC. Since you live in Dallas I think AC is mandatory. Personally I rather lose the supercharger than PS and AC.

[edwardb]

I can't find how many amps it pulls. any idea?

I installed the Fast Freddie EHPS setup in my #7750 Roadster build for power steering and hydroboost brakes. Worked great. I can't answer your question directly regarding current draw. But it comes with a 100 amp breaker and 75 amp relay. Plus directions are to power it directly from the battery. Which I did. So it's meaty. I would make sure you have an alternator that's up to the task. Normal batteries we use should be fine. This is a picture of the parts it came with:

[John Dol]

For those not in the know... why does it need a new frame?
Good luck with the build sounds like you have a good plan together.
For what its worth I vote yes on PS and AC

John

[nkw8181]

The prototype frame was just that a prototype and so it was cut/welded, cut/welded exec. It is a safety and liability reason the the frame must be destroyed. If someone had an accident the frame may or may not act as predicted. I think that gives a good idea.

From what I can tell I may be able to use the stock a.c. (or at least mounting location) with the EHPS. Asking a question that appears to be obvious to others is hard to find a definitive answer on Google lol.

For those not in the know... why does it need a new frame?
Good luck with the build sounds like you have a good plan together.
For what its worth I vote yes on PS and AC

John

[Gordon Levy]

I have the 14" wilwood stuff if you need it.

[nkw8181]

Thanks!

So ok I'm looking for thoughts and ideas of ways to protect the beautiful paint job while the car is being built. I have a 3 car garage so the body can sit next to the old and new frame but that leaves a small amount of room to work. I've thought of using moving blankets, car cover, painters tape. You get the idea. Thoughts??

[Garry Bopp]

I would buy an inexpensive car over. A Corvette size cover will fit your coupe body.

Garry

[John Dol]

Raise the body on a wood buck to the ceiling so its out of the way. More floor space, and less likely to get dings.

John

[nkw8181]

I've seen some pics of a cobra wood buck but the coupe is taller with the roof. I haven't seen pics done with the coupe. I'm going to figure out if i can hang the body with the frame under it tomorrow. anyone got a rough body weight with windshield installed?

Thought this might work or two of them. I've had them before and they are great. I wouldn't use the steel mesh. Rather just hook into eyes on a wood carriage.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

[John Dol]

Yeah that will probably do.
I think Cobrakai inverted the body so the roof faced down. Depending on how long the body is going to be off the car you need to worry about the body settling in a different shape then it was on the car. Think FFR recommends supporting under the roof by the windshield to keep the pontoons un loaded
HTH

John

[nkw8181]

What year vette?

I would buy an inexpensive car over. A Corvette size cover will fit your coupe body.

Garry

[forcefed1]

Your comment on changing the frame to white has me thinking.
I'm getting a black street frame. But for the exposed portions of the interior Id like to have the frame White.
Several of my race cars we painted the inside white and it made such a difference. The car just felt much cleaner and finished.
But i like the black powdercoat option for the outside of the car.

[nkw8181]

Counting down! the car should arrive next week!!!! WOOO HOOO!!

[Garry Bopp]

Nolan ... it's been a long time since I purchased the cover but I think a '90's Vette.

Garry

[nkw8181]

Well a few updates. I will have wilwood 14" rotors on the front and 12.88 on the rear. I've also gone through the aerobics of getting a sample of the paint and sending it to g2 coating. They said they can match it (I'm sure it will be without all the metallics). This is for the brake calipers. Before going this route I did check with Sherman Williams to see if they had anything high temp for the brakes with no luck. I think it will look sick with the brakes matching the car.

Also I ordered the custom indoor car cover that factory five has for the car. Wayne suggested it after seeing it at SEMA. His words where "it fits like a glove". I still may get an outdoor cover that I can put over this one. I'd just like to be prepared if a random thunderstorm shows up since the weatherman(woman) have a hard time in Texas.

Next the car delivery has been delayed. Stewart had an issue with the trailer so the car will arrive next week. Thinking about it this is probably for the better. I doubt the semi could fit down my street during thanksgiving!

[turbonut48]

Call Ken at epowersteering.com. He ll help you round up the parts. My control kit came with a potentiometer to vary the amount of assist. Get the original splinned connectors with whichever unit you go with.
You ll still need to make your own mount.
Tell him Tom sent you.

The Nut

[nkw8181]

Call Ken at epowersteering.com. He ll help you round up the parts. My control kit came with a potentiometer to vary the amount of assist. Get the original splinned connectors with whichever unit you go with.
You ll still need to make your own mount.
Tell him Tom sent you.

The Nut

Thanks! I'll given them a shout. It will come down to fast Freddie or epowersteering now that I know of another option to explore.

[nkw8181]

Car update: the prototype car will be here thur and the rest of the kit arrives sat!!

[John Dol]

Nolan,

Bet you can't sleep!!

John

[nkw8181]

It is going to be really hard to sleep tonight!

I don't see that I mentioned it but I will have A/C


I got a few things on black Friday and cyber Monday (and this week) for both the car and garage

-I decided to go with Fast Freddies EHPS and ordered it.
-I ordered 2 gallons of LIZARDSKIN CERAMIC WHITE and SOUND CONTROL BLACK. I am only doing the interior so I hope this is enough.
-2 ton engine hoist. I had a one ton but need to upgrade for this motor and tran.
-Air Riveter. After the last build i decided it is worth getting
-retractable air and electric reel to mount on the ceiling
-Drill press
-Fender cover
-6 ton jack stands
-shop vac
-And lots of small things!

Alright I have pics of the car from tomorrow and video followed by pics of the rest of the kit on Sat

[nkw8181]

Man oh man this is going to be fun!! So here are some pics and videos of the Prototype being delivered. Tomorrow morning everything else comes.



https://imgur.com/eMhL1VO

https://youtu.be/Ex-3b0ucZRk

https://youtu.be/T3DQkpSHTOw



https://youtu.be/PZpVOiHev-g

[Vette1972]

Wow! That thing sounds totally awesome!! Can't wait to see the reconstruction of this gem. Thanks for the update. Will be watching closely.

[John Dol]

Very nice!!

John

[nkw8181]

This was an amazing weekend. The frame came in Sat morning with all the aluminum and boxes. I spent the rest of Sat going through the inventory boxes. Sunday the real work began. I located and placed all the panels and then videoed it for myself for when they come back from powder coating and anyone else it might help. the link is below.

https://youtu.be/xsBIdQnmEYk

I had two panels that I couldn't find so I just took them from the prototype and will make them work. We (two friends of mine) got the prototype up in the air, exhaust off, tabs welded on the exhaust (prototype didn't have it), headers off, all aluminum with at least one hole in it and some of the interior panels taken out. man those header bolts are a pain to get too! We took off the alternator to allow room for the headers to come out plus it looks like we would need to do that anyway to pull the motor. The plan is to leave the body on the car as long as we can and try to do the same with the motor but the motor may end up coming out and staying out of both cars for a bit to make things easier to get to.

One step at a time and we will see where it gets us.

Here are the pics from the last 2 days.

https://imgur.com/a/qVbSr

[nkw8181]

Got the aluminum back from powder coating and temp installed then with the self tap screws.

Aluminum temp installed https://imgur.com/a/Td2Xh

[John Dol]

Looks nice! So are those the original panels that were on the demo car? If so how close does the fit seem to be now that they are on a different chassis?

John

[Vette1972]

Man those are great photos! It looks like a cad drawing it's so pristine. Anxious to see you get really started. Tks!

[nkw8181]

John, those are new aluminum. I didn't try to fit the old. I'm trying my best not to make any marks or scratches on the white frame as it will show everything.

Thanks Vette. Should make some headway this weekend!

[nkw8181]

Update. We got the IRS installed. I made a mistake and ordered wheel studs with a knurl size of .618. DON'T DO THIS! The proper knurl size for the studs is .625. So on the first set almost all the studs spun. Then I heard you could tac weld it. I tried this and had one break the weld. I then decided that I didn't trust this setup. I ordered new hubs from rock auto and some Mosser studs. The first brand was Dorman. The Mosser hand better defined knurl.

Rear IRS installed https://imgur.com/a/N4VEX

[nkw8181]

So I thought that the front Wilwood brakes that factory five offered where the same as what goes on the F body mustang. This is not the case. Factory five has a custom set of Wilwoods made for there cars. They are narrower and it makes it easier for wheel fitment. All this to say that I ordered the rotor and miss parts to convert the "mustang" front brakes to 14" rotors which ofcourse do not work on my car. It was easy to find the factory five brakes on Wilwoods site once I knew to look for it. Another lesson learned. So the car will have the factory five 12.88s on all 4 corners.

Speaking of brakes, I safety wired all the rotors. We now have the front and rear suspension installed including front and rear swaybars. I have a power steering rack coming but it is on backorder so we will switch that out when it gets here.

20171222_184415.jpg

20171222_233536.jpg20171222_233524.jpg

As far as the rear wheel studs go, I have gotten really good at removing and installing new studs. The second set was the right knurling but when I installed them they weren't long enough with or without the spacer. the studs where 1.5 in long which should have worked but one of my measurements was off. So after reaching out to Wayne and Eric I found out that I could run 1.25 or maybe even 1.5 in spacers with the wheels and tires I have. (335/30/18R) Also to note that I would recommend atleast the 1” to keep the wheel from rubbing the frame. So what i decided was that I would knock the studs out of the spacers (the spacers had studs built into them) and run longer studs from the hub through the spacers. Then if I find they are too long I will just trim them down. Here are the studs I used and a pic with the wheels on with the 1" spacer.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/arp-100-7703

20171230_201147.jpg

The brake lines are also run. We ran some different lengths then those supplied. For the front we ran a 51" up to the tee and reused the one from the prototype ~41" to go to the right front. for the rear we used one of the supplied 60" to go through the tunnel then teed off with a 30" for the left and a 40" for the right. I think it turned out well. The prototype had a long stainless steel fuel lines so we reused it.
<brakeline and fuel line pics

The rear harness as well as the license plate backup camera cables are run through the trans tunnel next to the brake and fuel lines. With where we mounted the engine management module we plan on having the wires come in through the side of the pedal box. The top of the pedal box is installed with rivet nuts so I am making a fuse panel that faces up.

A majority of the panels have now all been drilled. There is alot of work in that one sentence. I still have the passenger foot box to drill and I think that is it.

20171230_201130.jpg20171230_201127.jpg

So I mentioned the backup camera. this is what I went with and here is the mirror I also chose. I will be putting a 5th wheel in the back so I will have little visibility. This mirror and camera will allow me a better field of vison without making the car look "modern". Plus if I need navigation I can just look at the mirror 😊 .


https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.crutchfield.com/p_707VTW...mnews=14673008

[nkw8181]

here are a few more pics20171230_214833.jpg20171230_214829.jpg20171230_214749.jpg20171230_214743.jpg20171230_214712.jpg20171230_214702.jpg20171230_214647.jpg20171230_214637.jpg20171230_201141.jpg20171230_201136.jpg

[nkw8181]

and a few more20171230_201130.jpg20171230_201127.jpg20171230_201103.jpg20171230_201059.jpg20171230_201051.jpg20171230_201046.jpg20171230_201036.jpg20171230_201030.jpg20171230_201023.jpg20171230_201002.jpg

[nkw8181]

ok last one for the night.20171230_200957.jpg20171230_200951.jpg20171230_200947.jpg20171230_200923.jpg20171230_200916.jpg20171230_200911.jpg20171230_200856.jpg20171230_200845.jpg

[Sigurd]

Great build.
Are you sure you want the same brake fluid reservoir for both brake circuits? One leak can leave you without brakes.

[edwardb]

Great progress! Thanks for posting all the detailed pictures showing the various fuel, brake, and electrical wiring runs. Keep them coming. The Gen 3 build manual doesn't have much detail for any of this, so very helpful seeing what you did. Which based on your descriptions, sounds like you're mirroring some of what FF did on the prototype.

One question though on your sway bars. Is there a reason you didn't cut the rod ends as FF describes in their sway bar instructions? "Cut the rod ends and female rod ends so the threads are 1/2” long." https://www.factoryfive.com/wp-conte...R-2015-IRS.pdf

[Erik W. Treves]

I didn't cut mine either...was gonna wait until after my first track event and see if I need any adjustments... If you wanted to go full loose... not sure it will reach the last hole if you cut it.

[Jkviper]

Awesome build thread, following along and enjoying watching your progress.