Two (2) EZ30R engines that need management.

[JB91710]

I never seemed to have enough money to buy a FFR kit so I had to build my own car. It is a replica of a Porsche 917/10 Can Am Car using two Subaru Tribeca EZ30R engines and the Sport Shift Transaxle. The engines are bolted together at the crank shaft with a custom adapter and two flex plates rim to rim for shock absorption. I have the front engine set at top dead center on cylinder 1 and the rear on 6, the next cylinder in the firing order. My plan was to have the computer listen to the front engine and then firing and injection commands would be split to one cylinder in each engine at the same time but on opposite sides for balance and to keep a strain off of the connector. I have mechanical throttle bodies on them now but can switch back to electrical.

I have spent the last 6 years contacting aftermarket computer companies and have gone through 7 electricians but haven't gotten any further than the splicing I did myself. I have now tapped into this site and low and behold, you guys are starting a EZ30 revolution. At the present time the plan is to have the OEM ECU reprogrammed to run either both engines as I have described or I'll need to make a system for each engine but they will need to be controlled by the mechanical throttle or the electrical ones will have to be spliced or another sender tied into the pedal.

I have read that Open Source and RomRaider can reprogram the computer to work outside the Tribeca. I would like to get the car registered for the street in Connecticut and I believe it will need to go through emissions. I do have a very talented tuner here that will do the work when he has the time as I have trouble changing flashlight batteries.

So, what do you guys think of the management direction I'm going? You can see the car in a number of videos I have on YouTube. The first one is below.

Jack

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1HyKLC-p1A

[Wayne Presley]

It's going to sound like a 6 cylinder bolted together like that. You have to offset the rear engine 60° offset from the front to get the 12 cylinder sound. You could easily run the twin engines off one ECU.

[DodgyTim]

Hi

I've an EZ30 r as a possible replacement to my EJ255 build

If you changed the mechanical link between the motors to put them in the same timing (same TDC), could you not simplify everything to run 1 computer?
Timing for ignition goes to #1 for each motor etc ? Same for fuel? Then just connect the two throttlebodies and balance the vacuum like old school multi carb setups?


Or 1 rotation different on rear engine?

[DodgyTim]

Wayne is correct, it needs 60 degree offset for 12 exhaust pulses

[Wayne Presley]

I could run all 12 off a single computer without issue.

[JB91710]

Hi Wayne, I'm thinking the exhaust system is very long and the exhaust pulses will have very different paths to take and should exit at different times so during a complete cycle there should be 12 separate exhaust notes. Sound is the least of my worries. Getting these engines to run together will take lot of planning. I've been told the OEM ECU will not handle the signal split for the coils or injectors. Something about Drivers in the computer burning out?

Unfortunately I could not attach photos. Is there a trick to it? The photos are JPG 2.65MB

[JB91710]

Hi Tim, No matter what cylinders are firing, if I use one computer I still have to splice. And I want one cylinder to fire in each engine on opposite sides at the same time for balance so one engine is not sending torque through the connector to drive the other engine.

I've been told that I can't splice the throttle sender signals to run two ECU's. I can't imagine why but that's what I heard. I thought at the least, that the ignition, injection and throttle senders could have signal boosters added if the low voltage "Signal" was weakened by the split. From what I understand, the coils and injectors both have 12v just waiting for the signal to fire. maybe not with the injectors. Maybe the signal is what fires them and that's why the drivers in the computer would burn out.

[JB91710]

Wayne, Off the OEM computer? The signals would still have to be spliced, right?

[Wayne Presley]

You could use the OEM computer, only put one TPS (slave the second throttle body to the first) wire your injectors in series (higher resistance = less load on ECU), the Subaru coils are smart coils with the ignition drivers built in so there is virtually no load on the ECU from them. You already have have a shared cooling system so only one coolant sensor is needed and use only one MAF sensor.

[JB91710]

Wayne, Slaving the second throttle body is a good idea. The rest of your ideas I'll run past the tuner here as that stuff is over my head. I would like to come up with a well thought out plan before work begins.

How do you think the two engines will affect the emission test?

[JB91710]

021B.jpg022B.jpg I cut the size of the photos by half and they downloaded. I think!

[JB91710]

100_0285B.jpg100_0294B.jpg100_0296B.jpg100_0297B.jpg

This is the connector.

[JB91710]

021B.jpg

These are the mechanical throttle bodies and the connection between them.

[UnhipPopano]

The build is interesting, but what is being done to prevent the combined torque from sheering either the axle shafts or something else?

[JB91710]

I'm going to drive it very carefully. It will Never be driven anywhere close to racing speed. No 0-60 or Burn Outs or wide open Track Days. I would only get on it after it was up to speed and for just a few shifts. It's for show and sound.

[redfogo]

I dont have anything to add but what your doing is crazy! Keep it up!

[myjones]

Why not pipe the two intakes together and use one larger throttle body?
The intake MAP would always be balanced between the two thus helping the engines be at the exact same output.
I'll ask my custom TB guru and let you know what he suggests.
HTH
DB 7.0L Hemi 33 6pack

[JB91710]

Myjones, That sounds like a good idea. What I'm planning to do is just get this car to run and drive. The perfection of the car will be in the hands of the next owner down the road. I have had to design and build this car by myself along with a modern Formula One car and an aluminum chassis and fiberglass body for a Lemans Porsche 917. I'm Pooped! I'm 65 and retired and yet here I am giving this car one more shot. I have been lucky this past week to find a local tuner who helped his father build a 818 and you guys. I have spent six years trying to find a way to run these engines in an industry that wasn't dealing with the EZ30 until recently. Now I see a light at the end of the tunnel.001 (2)B.jpgBody framework tail 246.jpg

[JB91710]

I just found out the electronics to run my engines with Motec is going to cost OVER $10,000. Anybody want to buy a cool project or two EZ30 engines?

[Frank818]

10k, wow. Have you checked with DTA at www.dtafast.co.uk?

Sad, really sad to hear that...

Here's a guy who I guess had a lot of money to make it possible, at 4m47s.

[JB91710]

Maybe Wayne can help me. This is what I was hoping to hear this winter after 6 long years of waiting.

https://youtu.be/FIoNRrI9hKA

[Frank818]

This sound is hard to match.

[JB91710]

Why not pipe the two intakes together and use one larger throttle body?
The intake MAP would always be balanced between the two thus helping the engines be at the exact same output.
I'll ask my custom TB guru and let you know what he suggests.
HTH
DB 7.0L Hemi 33 6pack

Jenvy cksu01.jpg

I found this from a company in England. They would cost $5200 for my two engines but that doesn't include the electrics to run them. That will be for a future owner. I just want to get them to run.

[myjones]

Jenvy cksu01.jpgI found this from a company in England. They would cost $5200 for my two engines but that doesn't include the electrics to run them. That will be for a future owner. I just want to get them to run.

JB
My EFI guru looked at the picture of your combo and said in that configuration, going with one properly sized TB would be the way to go for sure.
HTH
DB 6pack 7litre EFI/SMPI Hemi

[JB91710]

JB
My EFI guru looked at the picture of your combo and said in that configuration, going with one properly sized TB would be the way to go for sure.
HTH
DB 6pack 7litre EFI/SMPI Hemi

I had to design and build Everything on this car by myself with a financial gun to my head called The 2008 Recession and I can neither pay for Jenvey intakes or have the emotional energy to do custom work. I just have to get this car done and sold so I can breath again. After I have the car driving around the parking lot, I may think about having a friend of the tuner build a system to run both engines. He can make the flanges and the tubes are a no brainer. I could put one big throttle body pointing up with a Porsche fan laying flat just like on the 917. Kind of like this picture times two. eg33tt2.jpg