Need some help with door lock actuators

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Well, I though this should be pretty straight-forward, but apparently not. I ended up buying these:

https://www.ebay.com/p/2pcs-Universa...d=323635719483

....with the thinking that when you energize the wires wires one way, the plunger extends and then flip the polarity and the plunger retracts. Well, that's not what happens. Basically, the plunger starts out in a "neutral" position, and when you energize the wires one way, the plunger extends and as soon as you disconnect power, it returns to the neutral position. Flip the polarity and the plunger retracts and as soon as you disconnect power, returns to neutral. Obviously this is not what I want. I want to apply power in one direction that will extend the plunger and the plunger remains extended when power is removed.....then flip polarity and the plunger would retract and remain retracted when power is removed. Anyone know of a source for something like this besides going with a "linear actuator" that costs $40 each and has 150 pounds of force?

[FF33rod]

Wondering why you can't make these work. I'm thinking something along the lines of attaching a piece of metal with a slot in it to the locking mechanism. The length of the slot is the travel of the actuator (from neutral to the end point) plus the amount of travel of the lock mechanism rod. Crude diagram....

Untitled.jpg

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I can't do that because the lock mechanism on the latch has no way to hold it's position.....there is no detent or anything like that to hold it an any position. I need the actuator to hold the position. In other words, if I did what you drew there, I could hit the actuator to lock the doors, and as soon as the actuator falls back to the neutral position, the latch could easily follow along and go back to being unlocked. Same thing with the unlock position. I could unlock the doors and they could easily vibrate back or just follow the actuator back to the locked position.

[FF33rod]

Gotcha, was thinking of the way the locks worked back "in the day" before there were electric door locks...

[Jake From State Farm]

Hi Shane, this is what the guts of the door module controlling the C5 actuator looks like. I had to replace a relay to restore key fob functionality for my dad. They use, as you discovered, separate relays for open and close. I understand this doesn’t specifically answer your question but maybe seeing the board itself may give you hints as to how to work it out.


And yes, I realize that my dad having a C5 means I have no choice but to build a GTM one day

7B278E52-9968-46AB-A613-85DCB4516D11.jpeg6612C30C-0AF0-49D8-9045-04E4B2ABF33A.jpg

[beeman]

Shane, what locking mechanism are you using? Aftermarket or an oem unit? Is there an oem lock solenoid you can incorporate?
I'm guessing you are looking for a push-pull solenoid
Like this, but maybe need a longer stroke?
https://www.ebay.com/p/Zye1-0530-DC-...-AD/1653086481

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Beeman...I'm using the integrated lock mechanism of the older Gen I FFR door latches. Basically, it's nothing more than a hunk of steel on a pivot screw that pivots in and out of position to prevent the latch from being released. No springs...no detents....nothing but a wave-washer to keep the lever in any specific position.....whether it be fully in the lock position, fully unlocked or floating somewhere in between. Those push-pull solenoids....I am not familiar with those. Looks to me like those would work fine for this application if they do what I need them to do.....extend out and stay extended out (with no way to "float" back to any position but fully extended) with a short pulse of 12v power....then retract and remain retracted with a short pulse of power of reverse polarity. There's no real description in that ebay ad of what they do......from the photos, I would assume that it pulls when you provide power and then springs back to extended when you remove power?

[beeman]

I have not personally used them, Amazon has a wide selection https://www.amazon.com/s?k=12v+push+...f=nb_sb_noss_2
How much stroke and force do you need?
I just watched a youtube video on push-pull solenoid, looks like it does spring back...Probably the same as the internals you have tried.
Have you considered ditching the FFR latch and going to an oem?

[beeman]

Look at this youtube video of a GM door lock actuator, look at the actuator function starting at 37:40, looks like what you need.
https://youtu.be/Vov6KDngvXs

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

I have not personally used them, Amazon has a wide selection https://www.amazon.com/s?k=12v+push+...f=nb_sb_noss_2
How much stroke and force do you need?
I just watched a youtube video on push-pull solenoid, looks like it does spring back...Probably the same as the internals you have tried.
Have you considered ditching the FFR latch and going to an oem?

I don't need much stroke....half an inch would be plenty. And force.....honestly one pound would be more than plenty. I already have the latches installed in the doors and custom strikers fabricated to work with these latches and both doors completely installed and adjusted....so not really willing to ditch several days of work to start completely over from scratch......

[beeman]

Do you think that older GM unit in the youtube video will work?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Not sure......it has about 20x more stroke than I need and I don't like how the plunger can just be easily pushed in and out like that. It's a definite improvement over being spring-loaded to return to a central position, but I'm hoping there's something a bit closer to what I really need out there. I never imagined that it would be so difficult to find something that should be so simple.

[beeman]

I feel like when I have bought a kit like your actuator, it doesn't return to middle after activating. I think I still have a set in my shop, I'll look at them when I get home. Maybe you got some weird actuators.
I'm used to the ones like here at 3:30 in this video:
https://youtu.be/4VxvlB-lqY0

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

That actuator looks identical to what I bought. I would say that it works there because of the detents built into the latch/locks on the car....when you manually activate the door lock lever inside the car, you can feel the detents as it locks and unlocks....the manual lever doesn't just flop back and forth freely like what I have here on this latch.

[beeman]

My Gen 1 kit door latch did not have any form of lock mechanism. So I went with Honda units instead. Do you have a picture of your setup?

[72442conv]

My car has some that look like these:
https://www.amazon.com/d/Power-Door-...olt/B00CZBQCR2
But that seems to be about the same thing you have there.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Try to post pics:

Screenshot_20190307-170357_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20190307-170435_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20190307-170506_Gallery.jpg
Screenshot_20190307-170759_Gallery.jpg

[BobbyB]

Old style ford lock actuators might work good. Something like off of a fox body mustang.actuator.jpg

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Well, I just ordered some other actuators that are supposed to do what I need......skeptical until I verify....we shall see....I'll keep everyone posted once I receive them.

[beeman]

Mine are extend /retract and don't return to middle, but don't hold in place, would need some kind of detent.
If you are actuating through a push rod, I'm wondering if you could create some friction along the rod, ie by running it through a grommet or something. Or put a small U bend in the rod that bumps over something to act like a detent.

[Tmzand]

RC Servo and a timing circuit?

[LCD Gauges]

Shane,

If i understand the function of the locking mechanism after a quick read, you can try a latching relay:

https://www.digikey.ca/products/en?k...-5-ND%E2%80%8E


It holds the position until a pulse is presented on the opposite coil input.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Shane,

If i understand the function of the locking mechanism after a quick read, you can try a latching relay:

https://www.digikey.ca/products/en?k...-5-ND%E2%80%8E


It holds the position until a pulse is presented on the opposite coil input.

But I don't want to keep the actuator energized all the time as it will quickly drain the battery....and I doubt that any of these actuators are rated for continuous current without frying......

[BobbyB]

The mustang door lock actuators on the fox body cars where either up or down no middle to them. They screwed up and down and stayed in that position until you went the other way.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Thanks BobbyB....I will definitely keep that in mind if these others don't do what I need them to do. Looks like they're shipping from China....so might be a while before I know.

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Ok....here's an update. These are the second set of actuators that I ordered:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Car-Auto-Tr...72.m2749.l2649

Guess what?....they worked just like the first set I bought! That's the bad part. The good part is that instead of like the first set I bought that are "sealed"....no screws or anything holding the 2 halves of the plastic housing together....these are screwed together, so I was able to take them apart and see what was going on. In short, there is a worm gear attached to a sprocket that drives the actuator in and out. The sprocket engaged a sprocket on the electric motor shaft....but that sprocket on the shaft is not solid-mounted to the motor shaft....it just free-spins on the shaft and there is a set of little fly-weight plungers held by tiny little springs that engage the sprocket on the shaft. So.....when the motor spins, the plungers extend and engage the sprocket and drive the worm gear. As soon as the motor stops spinning, the plungers retract under spring pressure and the sprocket on the motor shaft goes back to free-spinning....which allows the actuator to "float" back to the center position (which is just the natural "neutral" position of the rubber boot that covers the actuator.

So....as luck should have it, it was pretty easy to pop the plungers out of the plastic hub and take the tiny springs and place them under the plunger instead of on top of the plunger. So now, instead of the springs holding the plungers in until the motor spins, now they are held out all of the time and the sprocket on the motor is always engaged to the motor shaft and always engaged to the worm gear.....and now the actuator works exactly like I need it to work!

[beeman]

Nice work modifying them to meet your purpose.
I'm guessing that the design as-delivered is so that the vehicle occupants can manually unlock the door from the inside without resistance to exit the car. Will that be an issue for your setup?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

Nice work modifying them to meet your purpose.
I'm guessing that the design as-delivered is so that the vehicle occupants can manually unlock the door from the inside without resistance to exit the car. Will that be an issue for your setup?

No.....there will be no manual way to lock/unlock the doors. There is never room at the driver's door handle for the lock cylinder to remain in the handle due to interference with the window.....and with the location of the locking mech of the latch, making a linkage to hook up to the inner door handles would also prove to be all but impossible without a ton of work......so the door locks will be electrically actuated only.