Patrick's 427 Build

[BadAsp427]

I'm Still Here

I'm still here. I haven't had much free time to work on the car recently, plus I went and got married followed by a honeymoon, so I've been out of the garage for the past couple of weeks. But, I'm back and ready to resume the build.

Not much to discuss today.

I did manage to bleed my brakes with the help of the new wife. I think they're working correctly. I had one leak from the rear T-joint which was a huge PITA because I ended up having to make a whole new length of brake line (flares and all) and re-install it. Once I did that, there was no more leak.

There is a little bit of rubbing of the rotors on the brake pads, but not too much. When I spin the front wheels, they'll spin for about 2-3 seconds before stopping on their own, but if I push the brake pedal, those bad boys stop on a dime.

Other than that, I decided to put the car on the ground today. It was a little nerve-racking to put the car down, but it went okay. I'm getting the car ready to drop the engine in. I found an engine lift, but I'm still working on getting it into my possession because my daily driver is a smallish SUV and the lift won't fit in the back.



I temporarily installed the roll bar just for fun.

Anyway, hopefully I can get that next step done soon.

Pat

Looks awesome Pat... And Congratulations on the wedding... I knew that was coming up soon. FWIW, I had the exact problem on my rear brake crossover line, except my leak was at the passenger side end. Keep up the great work and let me know how I can help, I'm only a quick drive away....

[edwardb]

There is a little bit of rubbing of the rotors on the brake pads, but not too much. When I spin the front wheels, they'll spin for about 2-3 seconds before stopping on their own...

What you're describing sounds normal. Disk brake pads are supposed to maintain slight contact with the rotor at all times. Hard to say whether 2-3 seconds is the right time. But definitely not as free-wheeling as before you added the brakes and bled them.

[Fixit]

I shot this awhile ago for another builder... https://youtu.be/Dgmg7WFKCwY

[Pat427]

I shot this awhile ago for another builder... https://youtu.be/Dgmg7WFKCwY

Fixit,

Thanks for posting this video. This is almost exactly what mine sounds/looks like. Makes me feel a little better about things.

Cheers,
Patrick

[miller7448]

Patrick, sorry I'm late on reading and commenting on your post. Just curious, did you drill out (enlarge) the holes on the in tank fuel pump?

[Pat427]

Patrick, sorry I'm late on reading and commenting on your post. Just curious, did you drill out (enlarge) the holes on the in tank fuel pump?

Miller,

Which holes in the fuel pump are you referring?

[PeteMeindl]

Congrats on getting married!

[BadAsp427]

Pat, take a look in your build manual about page 168 where it talks about the "Prep" of putting in your fuel pickup. It talks about drilling out the pickup tubes. It will make sense when you see it.

[Pat427]

Transmission Install....Stalled Out

Today I'm attempting to attach my TK0-600 transmission to my engine.

I have not had much luck, so I'm turning to the forum for a save.

Basically, I can't get the transmission to fully slide into the bell housing.

This is a picture of my transmission.




This is a picture looking into the bell housing.




When my monkey brain looks at these pictures I think to myself..."round peg goes into round hole" Well.....



This is as far as I can get the transmission to slide into the bell housing. Any thoughts? Should I hit the transmission with a hammer and force it in? Or am I missing something here?

Thanks,

Pat

[Pat427]

Miller,

Which holes in the fuel pump are you referring?

Miller,

I did attempt to drill those holes as described in the manual, however the holes were already bigger than the 1/4 and 9/32 drill bit, so I don't think it really did anything to expand the holes.

[edwardb]

This is as far as I can get the transmission to slide into the bell housing. Any thoughts? Should I hit the transmission with a hammer and force it in? Or am I missing something here?

Thanks,

Pat

Umm... NO. Please don't beat on it. My experience is the TKO is a tight fit into the Quicktime bell housing. But you're not that far yet. Looks to me like the end of the input shaft is not making it into the pilot bearing on the end of the crankshaft. You can check the fit by measuring the diameter of each before assembly, just to be sure all is proper. Then it's a matter of lining it up by moving the transmission around a bit until it goes in. That's assuming the input shaft length and bell housing are a proper match.

[Pat427]

Transmission!

Thanks edwardb for the tip.

I measured everything like you said and ensured the sizes all matched up.

I then tried again with a little more wiggle and bam! it went in smoothly.



Now I'm trying to figure out where to attach the engine hoist chains. Are there preferred spots?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Now I'm trying to figure out where to attach the engine hoist chains. Are there preferred spots?

I use a leveler and grab them from the 4 corners, either by using these pieces of box tubing bolted to exhaust ports or by bolting the chains to accessory holes at the front and rear of the heads:



Good luck!

Jeff

enginehoist.jpg

[miller7448]

Interesting, I needed to go up two drill sizes to get to the recommended diameter in one of the two for the 427. Don't remember if it was feed or return.

[Pat427]

Moving Day

I'm working overnight shifts recently, so time in the garage has been at a premium.

I managed to get a few hours work under my belt today and got a few things done.



I managed to get my engine off the palate on which it arrived. This was much more of a PITA than I had anticipated. I won't bore the forum with my whining details, but basically, I couldn't get the engine hoist close enough to the palate in order to lift the engine. I ended up having take the wheels off the hoist and cut the bottom of the palate in order for the leg of the hoist to be able to fit under the palate (you can see the hole in the palate next to my right hip).

I managed to get the engine off the palate and on the ground. I then moved the engine over to the front of the car.

I gotta be honest, I was a nervous wreck when I lifted that engine off the palate, but everything held. I had previously bought some Grade 8 bolts to attach to the engine block so I could hook the hoist.

Tomorrow I think I might try to get the engine into the car.

Stay tuned.


Thanks,

Patrick

[cv2065]

Good luck Patrick! Make sure you lube up that leveler as much as you can. It can be a bear to turn when the engine gets to a steep angle. Also, are you using chains in the rear of the crane or are those come alongs?

[Pat427]

cv2065,

I'm using two chains on the front and straps on the back. The straps are rated at 500lbs each and I've got two of them, so I feel like I've got enough security?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Patrick,
As you prepare to stab it in there if you raise the rear of the car high and keep the front low it will help with minimizing the angle you need to get it over the radiator tubing and into the tunnel.

Good luck,
Jeff

[Pat427]

More Updates


I had planned on trying to get the engine into the car today, but I weenied out.

I'm gonna hold off until I can get some guys to come over and help me. I just don't feel comfortable doing this on my own.

I did get some small stuff done today, so the day wasn't a total loss.

I've been reading a lot about how there's often some issues with the engine mounts not mating flush with the Dart block. So, I decided to test fit my engine mounts to see if I had the same problem. I've attached some pictures below. The mounts seem to fit just fine, but I thought I'd see what the forum had to say about the fitment.








Also, I got an unexpected delivery today. I had ordered a glovebox from Alex's Custom about three weeks ago. I didn't hear a peep out of Alex after I spoke with him on the phone, but today my glovebox showed up. First class work. It looks really good. I had sent him a piece of leather that I'll be using to cover my dash and he used that leather to cover the front and rear of the glovebox door. Really happy with it.



Ya'll take care,

Pat

[cv2065]

Glovebox looks good man! On the mounts, can’t really tell from the pics, but the block has some ribbing right behind the bolt holes on the mounts that prevent them from aligning with the block holes. You can try to run the mount bolts all the way down and see if they secure flush. Maybe the Engine Factory clearanced the block already?

[BadAsp427]

Let me know if you would like my hep with that engine install.

[edwardb]

The motor mounts should be 100% flat against the bosses on the block. Not completely positive from your pictures, but looks like there's a little bit of a gap there. If you check further, I suspect you'll find the added ribs on the DART block are keeping them from going all the flat. When this happened to me on #7750, my engine builder strongly suggested notching the motor mounts. It doesn't take much. Did not recommend cutting the block.

[Pat427]

Engine Mounts- Continued

So I took a closer look at the fitment of the engine mounts and as usual EdwardB was correct, there is a gap between the mount and the rib on the engine block.

When I looked closer at the block, it looks as though the ribs have already been grinded down? I guess this was done by the builder. Despite this, I still have a gap, so I forged ahead.



Anyway, I put the mounts back on the engine to see how I need to grind the mounts in order for them to fit flush against the block. This is where I hit a wall.

Warning: confusing description below.

The picture below is the Passenger Side front. Basically, its obvious there is a small wedge shaped gap between the rib on the block and the vertical portion of the engine mount.
The issue I'm running into is this: I need the whole mount to move closer to the block in order for that gap to get closed. I don't think grinding the mount is going to allow the gap to get closed.

Let me explain in a different way. I noticed the hole in the engine mount for the bolt is not perfectly round, instead it's oblong. This allows for the mount to be moved a little bit either closer or farther away from the block. However, in the picture below, the mount is moved as far forward toward the block as possible.

So, it seems like the only way for me to be able to close the gap between the mount and the block is to expand the bolt hole to allow the mount to get nudged closer to the block and thus closing the gap.




Maybe in this next picture you can tell what I'm talking about. In this picture, I've removed the bolt and nudged the mount closer to the block and the gap has been closed. The mount is flush on the block on both the vertical and horizontal contact points. However, with the mount in the position the bolt hole in the mount does not line up with the bolt hole in the block.



So what should I do here? Should I expand the hole in the mount that the bolt goes through? Or do I just have the wrong mounts?

Thanks,

Pat

[cv2065]

Just mark the area where the remaining ribbing is touching the mount and grind that area a little...test fit...then slowly repeat if needed. I did not grind on my block, only the mounts. It seemed like too much was being taken off the bend of the mount, so I contacted Mike Forte and he notched each mount then welded angle back into the mount behind the bolt holes to return the support. Many have notched/grinded without additional support and had no issues, but it’s up to you.

[Pat427]

Engine Install--Thanks to BadAsp427

Big day today! We got the engine in!

And by, "we", I mean BadAsp427 got the engine in.

BadAsp427 (Carl) was kind enough to drive up from Charleston to help me get the engine installed. I can definitively say that I would not have been able to get the engine installed without Carl's help. He came, he saw and he conquered.

We had a little trouble getting the engine leveler situated correctly, but were finally able to get everything in a good position and the engine went in without too much difficulty.
The pictures below speak for themselves.










I still have some minor adjustments to do, but for the most part, everything is looking pretty good.

Again, big thanks to BadAsp427.

Patrick

[BadAsp427]

Glad I Could Help!

[Desert Snake]

That's pretty sweet. Congrats.

[Boydster]

Very nice! Feels good to hit that point, doesn't it?

[Pat427]

Very nice! Feels good to hit that point, doesn't it?

Yes, but now I'm really in unfamiliar territory.

[cv2065]

Yes, but now I'm really in unfamiliar territory.

Just take it slow man. I found an Engine Factory video for you that might give you some insight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9C80Sy2a-o

[Boydster]

Yes, but now I'm really in unfamiliar territory.

Just one job at a time, man. Think about the things that need to be done, tackle em one bite at a time. Thats how we tackle the big jets that come in with a laundry list to fix, and only have the one day to do it all. One bite at a time and dont get overwhelmed by the big picture.

[BadAsp427]

Pat, don't forget that big book on your work bench...

[Pat427]

Updates and Questions

I haven't had a lot of time to work on the car recently. Life has been throwing me some curveballs which has kept me out of the garage. But, I've managed to make a little bit of progress.

First, I have a couple questions:

When BadAsp427 and I were installing my engine, a small piece on the engine got broken off. I'm not entirely sure what it was, but there was a tag on it from my engine builder (the builder labeled everything on the engine) that said, "vacuum only". Below is a couple pictures of it. I've emailed the builder, but haven't heard back yet, so I thought I'd see what the forum had to say about it.

In this first picture, I'm holding the piece that was broken off right next to where it was attached.



The second picture is just more of a birds-eye view.




Any input would be appreciated.


Next question:
Header gaskets...

My engine builder specifically said to us the Fel Pro 1487 gaskets, which I purchased. See pic.



I've been able to determine there is not a Left and Right for these particular gaskets and I'm assuming the side that's showing in the picture is supposed to be facing outward. However, my question has to do with sealant.

Do I use sealant on these gaskets?

If yes, then where on the gasket do I apply the sealant? Do I goop it on the whole thing?

Also, which side of the gasket do I apply the sealant? The side touching the block or the side touching the header? Or do I put sealant on BOTH sides of the gasket?




Last, I finished my dashboard. It's not perfect, but it'll work. There is some wrinkles in the leather, but I think they'll flatten out once I bend the ends of the dashboard during installation. Also, I didn't cut the opening in the dash big enough for the glovebox to swing open easily, so I think I'm gonna have to attach a handle to be able to pull the glovebox open. I'm thinking something simple like a short leather strap or something.



As always, any input would be much appreciated.

Pat

[Pat427]

Wiring

Are there any good posts that walk you through the wiring of the dash gauges? I know it supposed to be pretty simple, but I can't seem to make sense of it and was hoping there was post somewhere that could really walk a newbie like me through it.

[Boydster]

Your broken piece is the PCV line, going into an intake tract instead of under the carb like traditional would. Dont understand or know that piece that broke off, tho. Sorry.

I've always installed my Remflex gaskets dry. Fel Pro should have a shiny, metallic side to their gaskets... that metal side goes to the header. I would install them dry, but others will say to use a copper based, hi-heat sealant. Edit: I looked at a Fel Pro site, and they said they like the gasket to be able to move around a bit during expansion and contraction... that means no sealant.

Nice dash. Nice work.

Doesnt the Ron Francis handbook have pretty nice instructions for wiring the gauges? I see the book in your dash picture. In mine, its starts on about pg 45 or 46.

Dude, you aint dumb... you're building a freakin race car.

[Pat427]

Let the Wiring Begin

As everyone is probably aware, I really don't know what I'm doing when it comes to building a car. Despite my complete lack of knowledge and experience, I've managed to make some decent progress on this build (with the help of the forum and BadAsp427 of course).

Up to this point in the build, I've been dealing with tangible pieces of metal...body panels, suspension, engine..things that I can see and touch. I can see holes and bolts, washers and cables, which has allowed my monkey-brain to more easily troubleshoot problems when they have popped up. However, now I'm getting into the real unchartered territory.

On the subject of wiring and electrical...I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing. I know I've said that before, but wiring and electrical represents a new level of cluelessness in my head.

Therefore, I'm going to be relying even more heavily on this forum for guidance because I don't want to do anything to damage my car or cause the car to be unsafe. So please bear with me as I'm going to be festering on every little detail. Let the games begin...


So far I've been able to get the basic wiring connections on the back of the gauges. This step was pretty self explanatory. There is a step in the instructions that I want to run past the forum to make sure I'm doing this right.

It has to do with the instructions in the picture below:



According to this step, I'm supposed to connect the Dash Lighting wire to the Inverter White Wire. I believe the picture below is of the Inverter White Wire.



According to my monkey brain, the Inverter White Wire (pictured above) is supposed to get connected to the wire in the picture below...



If this is correct, I'm in a situation that looks like the picture below and I need to connect the two white wires.



I'm assuming I cut off the blue thing, strip the wires and connect them via a Butt connector. Is this correct?

Also, it appears the two white wires are different gauges. Does this matter?

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Patrick

[Pat427]

Wiring Continues

I think I figured out the above issue. I twisted together the White Wire from the red/white/black bundle with the white wire from the Inverter and then butt connected that bundle to the Dash Light wire.

Next, I started linking up the Dash Harness to the gauges and I ran into a discrepancy between the Factory Five Wiring Diagrams and the supplemental instructions that came with the Vintage Gauges.


It has to do with the Tachometer.

In the Factory Five Wiring Diagram, it shows the Tachometer being connected to a wire labeled, "Purple Coil". See pic



This is what it looks like:




The discrepancy is in the supplemental instructions for the Vintage Gauge set that I'm using. In these instructions, it says to connect a Yellow Wire to the Tachometer that will go directly to the (-) terminal on the ignition. See pic below of these instructions.



This is what it looks like:



I'm assuming I should use the Yellow wire as shown in the picture immediately above, since that is what is described in the instructions for the Vintage Gauges. Is this correct thinking? Should use the Yellow wire that goes directly to the ignition or do I use the Purple Wire that is in the Front Harness?

The other question I have is this: If I do use the Yellow wire option, then what do I do with the Purple Wire that says Coil Tach? Do I need to connect this wire to something or do I just cover it in tape and leave it alone?

Thanks,

Patrick

[edwardb]

I'm going to assume the yellow wire you've attached to the yellow-green wire from the tach is from the Speedhut (Vintage) gauge box? As opposed to a wire out of the Ron Francis dash harness. So if the yellow wire is the Speedhut wire, here you have a choice to make about the gauge wiring. And hopefully this isn't confusing. In your gauge box you received sending units and cables to connect them to the gauges for the tach, water temp, oil pressure, and oil temp if you're using it (optional). In addition, you have wires in the Ron Francis harness also for all those gauges, and another branch coming out of the main harness called "sending units" that's the other end of the wires in the dash harness. You have two choices:

Option 1: Don't use the Ron Francis sending unit wires, including the purple tach wire you asked about. Instead, route the cables provided with the Speedhut gauges directly from the engine sending unit side to the gauges. Bypassing the Ron Francis harness for those connections.

Option 2: Attach the gauges to the Ron Francis sending unit wires in the dash, including the purple tach wire you asked about. Then attach the Speedhut cables to the sending unit branch out of the main harness. Or don't use the Speedhut cables at all in some cases. For example, you wouldn't need the Speedhut yellow tach wire. Just use the Ron Francis purple wire. Some for the oil pressure. You really don't need the Speedhut cable since it's a only couple of ring terminals. The water temp (and oil temp, if using) do have connectors on the sending units, so there you could splice on the Speedhut cable wherever you want. Behind the dash, in the engine compartment, whatever.

I prefer Option 2 because it allows the dash to be separated from the car with only the three Ron Francis plugs on the dash harness. Even though (knock on wood) I haven't had to take a dash out yet. Option 1 would require the Ron Francis plugs and the Speedhut cables to be disconnected in case of dash removal.

Hopefully this didn't muddy the waters. But it is important for you to understand I think.

[Pat427]

Wiring Continues

Thank you EdwardB for your response. You knowledge is much appreciated.

I'm slowly making progress on the wiring. But of course, I've hit a few hiccups that have confused me, so I'm turning to the forum for clarification.

First, the instructions talk about a button that attaches to the back of the Tach and Speedo, which I guess is needed for programming purposes. Pic below.



Question: I only have one of these. Am I supposed to have two? (one for the Speedo AND one for the Tach? Or am I supposed to just use one for both?)



Next, according to the manual, I'm supposed to twist together three ground wires...the power distribution ground, gauge dial light ground and clock ground. Then I'm supposed to connect that three wire bundle to the black ground wire. See pic



Question: Which black ground wire am I supposed to connect this three wire bundle to? I have two black ground wires, which themselves are a two-wire bundle. See pic below.


Which one of these ground wires am I supposed to connect that three wire bundle to?

Thank you for any help that anyone can provide,

Patrick

[edwardb]

1. You only get one pushbutton with the gauges. It's needed to calibrate the tach and fuel gauge. But then not needed for them any more. You will want one permanently connected to the speedo to reset the trip odometer and access the options in the GPS speedo. Some pretty cool stuff in there. I mount it pointed in the lip along the bottom of the dash, pointed down, directly under the speedo. Out of site but convenient and makes sense there. You'll also need one for setting the clock, and that also needs to be a permanent installation. I put the button in the glovebox. But could be anywhere including also along the bottom of the dash. They're easy enough to make if you want, or can be ordered from Speedhut.

2. You can use any of the ground wires in the dash harness. The more recent versions of the harness provide a number of them. Use however it makes sense and works with your wiring.