#1104 (Gen1) Steve's 33 Rod Build - door panels

[Chris C]

Best of luck to you! Sounds like fun.

[peterh226]

Good luck and may the wind gods blow in you favor!

[FF33rod]

About to start posting some updates again, thankfully.
This is just a quick note that I've gone back to my delivery post on page 1 of the thread and added a cautionary note about the floor location as delivered by FFR. This of course applies to Gen1.

I read somewhere that before removing the aluminum floors, etc from the frame (as delivered by FFR) you should use a marker and outline where all the frame pieces are and this will save time later when you go to drill the rivet holes. My recommendation - DO NOT DO THIS. I did do that and drilled the holes accordingly. Unfortunately, when FFR puts the floor pieces in for delivery none of the firewall pieces are in place and so the floor is not accurately positioned at that time. I found the eventual floor position was about 0.5" different when I went to install it and I had to change the rivet locations. Now I have some unwanted holes in the floor I need to seal.

[FF33rod]

It finally happened, out of the blue the last POL item (power window glass) has shown up. It amazes me how FFR packages this stuff though. The glass is in a tight cardboard sleeve and that is just thrown into a much larger box with a bit of crumpled paper. The internal package flops around like crazy. A single small orange sticker is on the outside of the box declaring there is glass inside. Somehow it survived. A lot of stuff comes that way but thankfully the only problems/damage I've had has been minor - bent brake lines and a broken rear view mirror.

[Chris C]

You didn't want to use that crappy mirror anyway...

[FF33rod]

Will put a few posts in here over the next few days to get the thread caught up on where I am here in July.

Back at the end of April I put together the radiator, fan, fan shroud, AC condenser and the grill. The stackup of grill, condenser and radiator is a bit of a nightmare to get put together. You have to fiddle with rivnuts, try to drill through a number of pieces in a straight/vertical manner. I remember now why I didn't post much at the time, it wasn't pretty - some oval holes were had that's for sure. The result is fine in the end but a challenge to get there.

The manual suggests that the grill needs to be notched out for the AC condenser but I found that was already done.
IMG_2784a.jpg

The fan shroud from Replica parts is great, very easy to put in place and by all accounts works very well.
http://www.replicaparts.com/Hot%20Ro...oud%20page.htm

When putting the fan shroud on its recommended to seal up the edges were it meets the radiator to eliminate vibration and possible air noises... I used a metallic gray RTV, worked well.

IMG_2779a.jpg IMG_2781a.jpg IMG_2782a.jpg

[FF33rod]

With both the AC Condenser and the fan shroud in the stackup, the whole assembly is pushed back towards the front suspension and clearance with the top of the shocks can be a challenge. I created a separate thread that covers the subject and shows a couple of different solutions that have been used.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...earance-on-fan

For me, changing around the orientation of the bolts that mount the top of the shocks, notching the plastic fan guard a little, and adding a washer in behind where the radiator assembly mounts to push the assembly forward was enough to resolve the problem.

IMG_2786a.jpg IMG_2792a.jpg IMG_2793a.jpg

I also used Replica Parts' upper and lower radiator hoses instead of the corregated steel stuff that comes in the kit.

http://www.replicaparts.com/hot%20ro...ose%20page.htm

Super easy to install and looks so much better than the FFR solution

[FF33rod]

Exhaust install went fairly smoothly. I tried the approach the manual suggested for attaching the hangars to the frame but trying to bend those tiny stubs of steel is next to impossible. I took a different approach, I bent the pins that are attached to the pipe instead of the hangar parts.

IMG_2816a.jpg IMG_2817a.jpg

I double wrapped the mufflers to try to reduce the heat coming up through the floors. DEI exhaust wrap around them first then wrapped in the DEI muffler shield

IMG_2940a.jpg

I purchased the rear exhaust option and the instructions suggest that the pipe should be routed inward and over top of the IRS center section as shown here...

IMG_2845a.jpg

However, fit wasn't good at all. The passenger side might have worked out the driver's side was a problem. I couldn't get the angles to line up properly so that the pipes wouldn't hit the frame.

IMG_2848a.jpg

Apparently this is a common problem and others suggested installing them straight back instead of coming inward. So this will now be the routing, as you can see I have to change my brake line routing accordingly but clearance with the frame is great.

IMG_2851a.jpg IMG_2852a.jpg

[FF33rod]

Fitting the emergency brake was pretty straightforward. The instructions said that if you have the Wilwood brake option (which I do) then you have to put in some extra links to extend the cables to the brake lever... It fit fine the way it was so I'm not sure what has changed but I'm not complaining

Note that there was some interference between the cable attachment brackets and the chassis mounting tab for the emerg brake. Had to grind away a section of the mounting tab.

IMG_2983a.jpg IMG_2985a.jpg

[FF33rod]

This weekend I got into fitting the floor panels, rear of the cockpit, transmission tunnel... Went fairly smoothly.

There was a lot of fiddling to get the transmission tunnel in place but in the end I'm really pleased how it is sitting. There's lots of space between it and the transmission (TKO600) and also lots of room for the gas pedal which is a surprise as everyone seems to complain about that.

IMG_2982a.jpg

My strategy for the panels is as follows
- Underside will be undercoated with 3M rubberized undercoating. This will protect the aluminum a bit, will also help deaden the sound and give some weight to the panels.
- inside will be Lizard skin sound and heat treatment with the FFR insulation on top of that

Scuffed up the panel with some 100 grit and masked off where the frame attaches.

IMG_2988a.jpg IMG_2989a.jpg IMG_2990a.jpg

[TDSapp]

Everything looks great. The only thought I have is where you turned the bolt around for the front shocks. With having the bolt head in the direction it is in if you ever decided to replace or change any part of the shocks (like changing springs) you will have to remove the grill\radiator to get the bolts out.



Tim

[FF33rod]

Everything looks great. The only thought I have is where you turned the bolt around for the front shocks. With having the bolt head in the direction it is in if you ever decided to replace or change any part of the shocks (like changing springs) you will have to remove the grill\radiator to get the bolts out.



Tim

Thanks, now that I think about it, that was pointed out in one of the original posts. I'm pretty sure I've turned that around now... Thanks for asking, I'll double check.

>>update: the first pic is before I did any mods and as you pointed out the bolt direction is not optimal. The second pic is after the mods - I've turned the bolt around and shortened it, it's really hard to tell which end is the head and which is the nut...

[FF33rod]

Decided to upgrade the A/C lines and use DIY end fittings, avoids having to crimp the stuff you get in the kit and looks a lot better. Aeroquip has a great line of the appropriate parts.

I started by finding a location for the dryer and put in the -6AN lines first, big mistake, had to redo them later. The -8AN and -10AN lines are much bigger and less flexible so put those in first and then the -6AN can install at the end.
To mount the dryer, I bought a 1" pipe clamp used to mount lights on a light bar, worked great. Here's a couple of pics, haven't secured the lines in place yet but happy with the routing...

IMG_3012a.jpg IMG_3013a.jpg IMG_3014a.jpg

[JOP33]

Decided to upgrade the A/C lines and use DIY end fittings, avoids having to crimp the stuff you get in the kit and looks a lot better. Aeroquip has a great line of the appropriate parts.

I started by finding a location for the dryer and put in the -6AN lines first, big mistake, had to redo them later. The -8AN and -10AN lines are much bigger and less flexible so put those in first and then the -6AN can install at the end.
To mount the dryer, I bought a 1" pipe clamp used to mount lights on a light bar, worked great. Here's a couple of pics, haven't secured the lines in place yet but happy with the routing...

IMG_3012a.jpg IMG_3013a.jpg IMG_3014a.jpg

I like the accumulator bracket you used. Do mind sharing where you got that or did you make it?

Thanks

[FF33rod]

I like the accumulator bracket you used. Do mind sharing where you got that or did you make it?

Thanks

http://www.vintageair.com/hose-kits-...ing%20Brackets
Part #65980

[FF33rod]

Wow, no posts through August. Well I have been working on the '33 albeit, mostly just an hour or two some week nights.

Fitting the transmission tunnel and the top cover.
I've found the fitment on the tunnel in general is not great but not terrible either. After some grinding and cutting out bits to go around gas pedal mount, emergency brake mount, etc it doesn't look too bad.

IMG_3024a.jpg

I placed some tape around the perimeter of where the top cover goes, laid the top cover onto the tunnel and traced the outline. In this way I could measure how oversized the cover was. I took these measurements and marked them out on some tape on the cover and then cut it down to size. A bit of fine tuning and voila.....

IMG_3025a.jpg IMG_3027a.jpg

Now that all that is done, I can pull out the tunnel, the floor boards and then pull off the firewall pieces to "finish" them before installing all that back again permanently.

[FF33rod]

How to finish the firewall was about as contentious as what the heck colour to paint this beast when it's finished. I had been thinking satin black but for some reason at the last moment I decided on brushed aluminum.
Technique: clamp the pieces to the bench, use sandpaper and emery cloth on any deep scratches that might be in the metal, clamp a sanding guide parallel to the metal piece to ensure my direction of sanding is not random, use 150 grit sandpaper running in a single direction to create the effect I want. My sanding occured in strips a few inches wide so I had to move the guide a few times to cover the whole piece. I spent a few minutes of sanding each strip. Once that was done, I did the same thing again but with WD40 sprayed onto the surface of the metal. This created an effect different from the sandpaper alone and also different from going with a finer grit like 220. For whatever reason, the final finish appealed to me. Once done, a cleaning with acetone and lacquer thinner and then a few coats of Rustoleum satin clear.... Overall I'm happy. Not nearly perfect but hopefully good enough. The satin clear finish is a bit delicate (I didn't bake it) so we will see how well it stands up.

IMG_3030a.jpg IMG_3051a.jpg

It also occurred to me that end of August is the 1 year anniversary for ordering my kit. Thought I'd be a little further along but I'm not unhappy.

TIP: if you want to make quick progress on a build, stop modifying things from the standard kit and upgrading things like hoses, clamps, etc. Just use what ya got... (ok, I'm stating the obvious)

[sethmark]

I think it looks great. The nice thing about these cars it’s all just bits and pieces. If you hate something you can, always throw it away and start again.

The time requirement is an interesting thing. I have been convinced since I started that I could have this car running in two months. Today is August 30 — 57 days since I started. If I spent all day finishing the wiring on the car, i could start it today. But I don’t want to. Finishing the car too fast is starting to make me sad. I enjoy the process and even though motivating my kid to participate has gotten more difficult, I still like working on it with her. I guess that’s why am dragging my feet because I really don’t want to be done.

[TxMike64]

TIP: if you want to make quick progress on a build, stop modifying things from the standard kit and upgrading things like hoses, clamps, etc. Just use what ya got... (ok, I'm stating the obvious)

My idea has been, build the car as is for the most part - just get it built. Then you can always change or upgrade something later. Iterative builds are something I've become accustomed to as an R&D Engineer. "Get it built, use it. Then make worthwhile incremental improvements." This is one reason why the bodywork and interior finish-out are of no concern to me - as far as I'm concerned the body can stay as it's delivered. Build it, drive it, tear it down, rebuild it, drive it, and on and on. But I'm kind of blowing smoke here, as I still haven't cut the check and ordered it yet....

[sethmark]

I share that mentality. I’m not Roy Brizio. I don’t have $175,000 or more to spend on this car. So having the best of everything is also not in the cards.

[NAZ]

FF33Rod, wish I'd have checked your build earlier -- could have given you some feedback on Rustoleum in general and the satin clear specifically. In my experience the satin clear lasts maybe a year exposed to the elements and starts to get cloudy and eventually peel. These panels are a PITA to remove IF you can even get them out once the engine and other items are in place. I've had better luck with Sharkhide on aluminum and it's a lot easier to apply and touch-up years down the road. But I ended up powder coating my firewall and foot well panels -- much more durable for an open engine compartment. Hope your choice of coating works out for you.

BTW, Mike & Seth -- told my wife it would take a few months to build my "kit car". The "kit" didn't survive long before it could no longer be considered a "kit". This build went so far off the reservation it took 2-years to complete. Now somewhere around the three-year mark and one racing season and I'm getting to the pre-planned upgrades. My wife tells me all my projects take twice as long and cost twice as much as I planned. Between scope creep and my very optimistic planned estimated time to complete she's usually right.

[FF33rod]

In my experience the satin clear lasts maybe a year exposed to the elements and starts to get cloudy and eventually peel

Hmmm, well it will be interesting to see what happens. This was actually a recommendation of Kleiner's in a thread specifically on brushed aluminum... They will be a PITA to pull out later if need be but I've made it easier by not adding RTV between them and the frame. I've done the RTV on all the other panels (floors etc) though

[FF33rod]

Okay, so seems like I've been fiddling with them for ever but with the firewall stuff all done in brushed aluminum it was time to finish up the engine compartment plumbing - namely the AC system with drier and the heater hoses and control valve. I did not want ugly black hose so for the AC I ordered Aeroquip steel braided AC hose and fittings (that was not a cheap proposition, see note above about continuously modifying things). Then for the heater hose I ordered Russell Performance nylon braided hose - unfortunately, that was in AN sizing and was not compatible with 5/8 heater hose fittings so I ended up going with Spectre Performance steel braided heater hose and some magna clamps. That thankfully was a more modest investment than the AC section.

Speaking of clamps, the tube clamps that I used to mount the drier and the heater valve to the frame were off Amazon https://www.amazon.ca/House-Tuning-B...gateway&sr=8-8

Build Tip: If you work with a steel braided hose where the braid isn't tightly coupled to the hose (like that of the Spectre Performance), some have complained how it loosens up and is tough to look good. I found that if you used electrical tape wrapped where you are going to cut it and leave that tape on when you add the clamp it is much less likely to "unbraid" on you. The magna clamp covers the end anyway including the tape.

So here are a few pics, pretty pleased with the result. The observant ones in the audience will note that there is still a black rubber hose laying on the ground - this is the radiator overflow which I hadn't connected to the firewall mounted reservoir when I took the pics. As it stands all hoses are inside and above the frame. The only hose that will be below the frame will be the lower radiator hose and that is still above the bottom of the grill. Although it's difficult to see from the pics, there is a fair bit of space between the hoses and the exhaust.

IMG_3137a.jpg IMG_3138a.jpg IMG_3139a.jpg

IMG_3142a.jpg IMG_3143a.jpg

Note that the blue spark plug wires are temporary. Those are an off the shelf set that I used to do the first start. I have black ford racing set that I made up but a couple of the wires have bad connections so need to fix that before putting it back on.

[Michael101]

Hose install looks really clean, nice work!

[MBB Larry]

Where did you get the Frame Bracket for your Dryer Mount?
Thanks

[MBB Larry]

Sorry, I saw the Vendor. Was Canadian, but I found it on Ebay.

[FF33rod]

Here we go, finally go carted. Such a darn fine feeling to have it move under it's own power... can't stop smiling....

https://youtu.be/hD6xSMCt22M

[sethmark]

You built a car!

[Bgardner]

Great job Steve

get a few daily down the road trips in before the rain starts.

[FF33rod]

Great job Steve

get a few daily down the road trips in before the rain starts.

Thanks Bob, there's one neighbour a few houses away that's an arse so I don't want to press my luck unfortunately...

[sethmark]

Steve, definitely drive the car as much as you can. Little things start to show up when you heat cycle a little bit. I’m at 10 or 12 miles now and I’m starting to find things.

[FF33rod]

So had the car out for spins around the block twice. If that doesn't put a smile on your face, you're dead
So, time to get some energy and focus on the dreaded body phase....

Got the chassis back up on jack stands, made sure it was level side to side, and disconnected the gauge panel and tucked it away in a box.
Wifey joined me in the garage and with one of us on each side we went for it.
After a lot of tugging, wiggling, angling, it eventually dropped down quite a ways but stopped short of sitting all the way down. A quick look around and found that the dash had caught the hydraulic clutch hard line and bent it over. It was stopping the body from going all the way down. What a bummer. Bent it out of the way which of course broke it, I "expressed" my disappointment in the situation, made sure wifey understood it was my dumb mistake and moved on
With that over, it sat down quite nicely on the top of the firewall and the sides of the chassis.

IMG_3208a.jpg

As I went around the car looking at what was resting on what, I noticed that the body actually needed to move forward another 1/8" or more. However, the tabs on the door hinge mounts were stopping that from happening. I eventually pulled them off but here is what I'm doing to fix the situation....

IMG_3207a.jpg IMG_3209a.jpg

With that obstruction out of the way, the body moved farther forward and I started to level things out including getting the 45.5" from dash to back deck as described in the manual.

IMG_3211a.jpg

In the end, to get both the front cowl and back deck level, I:
- front cowl was fairly level when it was pushed full down onto the top of the firewall, so I clamped it there
- driver side back deck was high and the distance dash to rear was about 3/4" too much. So as I raised the rear, I did so more on the passenger side than the driver's to even things out and get the right measurement. In the end, I ended up with about 3/8" or so of the passenger side door sill above the frame (a space that doesn't exist on the driver's side). This seems consistent with other experiences I've read.

[FF33rod]

So my good forum friends have said the real fun begins when adding the engine side covers and the hood. They're right.

Long story short.... I placed both side covers on top of the body extension that comes forward (gen 1 body) and low and behold we have 2 situations
- they come to different heights on the grill
- the bottoms stop short of the grill by about an inch or so

IMG_3212a.jpg

The first one isn't too surprising, there are a "few"things that are assymetrical but this can be finessed. The second problem, panels too short, is absolutely ridiculous given this is chassis number 1104. This type of stuff should have been fixed long ago before FFR should be playing with Rat's Glass bodies, a new super car and such.... They do a great job in so many areas and say the practice "continuous improvement"... Okay, rant over...

If I did not have the A/C option, this may not have been a problem. The A/C condenser pushes the radiator closer to the chassis which significantly restricts the adjustment range/angle of the grill assembly. If that range were not restricted, I could probably changes angles and such to get rid of the gap. However, I do have the A/C option and it is sold by FFR so this really shouldn't be occuring. I guess I'm learning how to fiberglass now, hello youtube....

Steve

[sethmark]

Your post made me laugh. I too killed my hydraulic line. Exactly the same reason exactly the same place. I’d love to tell you it gets better, but the bodywork is the challenge. At least for me.

[FF33rod]

So here is Steve's attempt at fiberglassing. So far, I think it's turning out okay. Pretty easy really. I'm posting this as support for newbies that may be apprehensive about it, I was a bit. However, there are many seasoned builders on here that could give us all lessons and point out areas I should have done different.

Steps: cleaned the gel coat, marked the point where I wanted to start the extension, tapered the edge where I was going to add the extension, taped a piece of cardboard and wax paper onto the panel (cardboard took the existing shape of the panel so I'd have close to the same curve), cut a piece of cloth and a few pieces of matt, mixed up some resin and went to town.... Now that is dry, I'll properly add 1 or 2 more pieces of matt to thicken it up and make it stronger...

IMG_3232a.jpg IMG_3233a.jpg IMG_3235a.jpg IMG_3237a.jpg IMG_3240a.jpg

[tony]

So had the car out for spins around the block twice. If that doesn't put a smile on your face, you're dead
So, time to get some energy and focus on the dreaded body phase....

Got the chassis back up on jack stands, made sure it was level side to side, and disconnected the gauge panel and tucked it away in a box.
Wifey joined me in the garage and with one of us on each side we went for it.
After a lot of tugging, wiggling, angling, it eventually dropped down quite a ways but stopped short of sitting all the way down. A quick look around and found that the dash had caught the hydraulic clutch hard line and bent it over. It was stopping the body from going all the way down. What a bummer. Bent it out of the way which of course broke it, I "expressed" my disappointment in the situation, made sure wifey understood it was my dumb mistake and moved on
With that over, it sat down quite nicely on the top of the firewall and the sides of the chassis.

IMG_3208a.jpg

As I went around the car looking at what was resting on what, I noticed that the body actually needed to move forward another 1/8" or more. However, the tabs on the door hinge mounts were stopping that from happening. I eventually pulled them off but here is what I'm doing to fix the situation....



IMG_3207a.jpg IMG_3209a.jpg

With that obstruction out of the way, the body moved farther forward and I started to level things out including getting the 45.5" from dash to back deck as described in the manual.

IMG_3211a.jpg

In the end, to get both the front cowl and back deck level, I:
- front cowl was fairly level when it was pushed full down onto the top of the firewall, so I clamped it there
- driver side back deck was high and the distance dash to rear was about 3/4" too much. So as I raised the rear, I did so more on the passenger side than the driver's to even things out and get the right measurement. In the end, I ended up with about 3/8" or so of the passenger side door sill above the frame (a space that doesn't exist on the driver's side). This seems consistent with other experiences I've read.

I just got my body on too. My passenger side is up 3/16" like yours. Did you use the original screw holes in the sill to pull it in tight? Or just leave it relaxed and shim. I worry pulling it in would make the door not fit properly and the door would stick out at the bottom

[peterh226]

The body work is really a case of just get in there and do it... For the door support, you can move it fore and aft enough to not have to grind off anything. I ended up doing a lot more fiberglass work then I expected on the Gen 2 lowers. I agree that these are off far enough that the should have resolved in the re-design.

The Gen 2 main body seems really goo and improved. The passenger door seems to be great. The drivers door is a pain in the *** and I may well request a new one once I get to the body work. The Fuel system interference with the body is pretty annoying as well.

This is a kit and you have to make a lot of adjustments to make some of these things work, however, some of these are manufacturing quality issues and a few are design, it would be nice if they were cleaned up.

[FF33rod]

I just got my body on too. My passenger side is up 3/16" like yours. Did you use the original screw holes in the sill to pull it in tight? Or just leave it relaxed and shim. I worry pulling it in would make the door not fit properly and the door would stick out at the bottom

Tony, so far I"ve only drilled holes for the rear wheel well attach points, not the door sills or the firewall. In those areas I'm just using clamps at the moment. However, I do not plan on screwing the side sills all the way to the frame if there is space (and when I clamped them it seems there is some space) as, like you, I'd be concerned of warping the area and causing door fitment issues.

[FF33rod]

So been quite awhile since the last update. I had the body on the chassis for some time and was looking at the fitment and adjustment of most of the other parts to that. After finding that I needed to extend the engine side covers, I added the fiberglass as shown a couple of posts earlier and set that aside. I've been spending hoards of time with the doors. When lining up the outside half moon trim bit on the door with the rest of the body, the drivers side door was about 1/4" too low. Now I know that the top of the door is supposed to be a little bit lower than the rest of the body so that it won't rub on the hard top but we are talking about 5/16 below. I should have taken a pic of this but didn't. I ended up added 1/4" of fiberglass and grinding away some of the original fiberglass so the door could slide far enough back and fit properly with the front cowl and dashboard area. Here's a couple of pics showing the rough work that I had to do....

IMG_3301a.jpg IMG_3300a.jpg

Lots of filling and sanding to be done.

Additionally, I found that the chassis I was sent had the striker mount in the location needed for Gen2 - it seems to be a hybrid chassis for some reason with some of the Gen 2 mods made, this being one of them. Unfortunately, the gen 2 location of the striker is a couple of inches higher than Gen 1 so my gen 1 door frame assembly doesn't line up properly with the stiker. After some back and forth with Tony @ FFR, they are making some custom brackets to get things to line up properly

Steve

[FF33rod]

So the gen 1 body quality is not great in some areas. This has been noted numerous times by other builders. If you read the newer gen2 build threads, you see that some improvements have been made but significant problems still exist. It would be nice to see FFR continue to make revisions to get this close to the quality of the roadster. Doors are warped, as noted in previous post door alignment can be way off, the "chin" fitment is hugely challenging, and where different sections of the mold are put together the alignment is off in some areas.

Here is a pic of the area where the main body part of the mold mates with the front firewall area. I've knocked down the flashing and large voids were present, in some cases these "voids" were actually full of clay that I had to dig out.

IMG_3304a.jpg

Here's a pic of the area with the first round of filler.

IMG_3309a.jpg

Not shown, but in the dashboard/cowl area this parting line actually has about a 1/8 different in height between the 2 sections - going to be a lot of filler in that area.

Steve