Transmission options for those with health problems: Flappy Paddle Gearbox

[StatGSR]

^ as BA as that transmission is, i also have a decent idea of how much that one cost to build, as the owner and the builder are part of the local suby forum, not cheap

[Inthenameofweez]

Just giving examples.

[PhyrraM]

I think that the 5 speed auto is more bragging rights than a real need or advantage.

As light as the 818 is supposed to be, plus the fact that we are talking about a (usually) turbocharged motor that needs load and time to build full power, I think a full manual valvebody converted 4EAT is the better choice between the two. Add the cost and availability factor and, to me, it's a no brainer.

[Doc_FFR]

I think that the 5 speed auto is more bragging rights than a real need or advantage.

As light as the 818 is supposed to be, plus the fact that we are talking about a (usually) turbocharged motor that needs load and time to build full power, I think a full manual valvebody converted 4EAT is the better choice between the two. Add the cost and availability factor and, to me, it's a no brainer.

What about freeway driving? Is missing the extra gear going to make the rpm's so high it's going to be loud at 70 mph? What would the effects be on top speed?

[thebeerbaron]

What about freeway driving? Is missing the extra gear going to make the rpm's so high it's going to be loud at 70 mph? What would the effects be on top speed?

An 1800lb car is going to be loud at any speed. Doubly so with the engine right behind your ears. I know you're not expecting a grand tourer, but I don't think there will be too many conversations going on at 70mph, extra gears or not.

[PhyrraM]

Wikipedia lists the final gear at 0.697:1 for the 4 speed and 0.834:1 for the 5 speed. *Generally* it's only the domestics that use the extra gear for super high overdrive ratios.

The 4 speed will give lower RPMs for the same final drive.

The 5th gear is usually used to give the auto a "close ratio" feel, smother shifts, and better use of available engine torque. All of those are partially addressed by the much lighter weight of the 818.

[305mouse]

My 92X is a 4EAT and it was quiet before the exhaust and EWG

[Evan78]

My 92X is a 4EAT and it was quiet before the exhaust and EWG

Wow, cant' be too many Saabarus out there with an EWG.

[305mouse]

only a couple out of about 11K made between 2005 and 2006

[D2W]

forgive my ignorance, what's EWG?

[PhyrraM]

External waste gate.

[Evan78]

Don't you love it when everyone speaks in acronyms? It's awesome when I go to a forum for a vehicle I'm new to and everything is shorthand and they use completely different names for parts I'm already familiar with.

[305mouse]

Sorry. It was all new to me at first too with that being my first turbocharged vehicle. Now I toss out ewg, fmic and others without ever thinking about it.

[thebeerbaron]

Don't you love it when everyone speaks in acronyms? It's awesome when I go to a forum for a vehicle I'm new to and everything is shorthand and they use completely different names for parts I'm already familiar with.

It could be worse. Early on we agreed that no one would speak of "Stages" here. Ever try to wrap your head around those? Worst forum idiom ever...

[Evan78]

It could be worse. Early on we agreed that no one would speak of "Stages" here. Ever try to wrap your head around those? Worst forum idiom ever...

Yeah, I remember that conversation, very good suggestion.

[BrandonDrums]

I'm late to this thread but wanted to chime in. I believe the previous gen Legacy GT automatic had gear selectors on the steering wheel. I remember talking about it with my local Subaru shop who the head mechanic also worked at the main Subie dealer, he was sayingit was one of the better and quicker shifting automatics out, "not bad for a fake paddle shifter" he said. I can't remember if it was the GT or the H6 but there's a Subie auto with a pretty quick "manual mode" that could work.

The other thing to consider is Dave is talking with ford about employing their Ecoboost engine for a high mileage model. Those make good power and I believe they have an honest to goodness 6 speed dual clutch "powershift" transmission for it.

Last I remember, the dual clutch auto is in the premium focus but the main complaint is that it didn't have a "manual" option. That could change here soon with the focus ST so it's possible you could built an 818 with a true 6 speed dual clutch tranny without sourcing any crazy aftermarket devices.

[Doc_FFR]

The other thing to consider is Dave is talking with ford about employing their Ecoboost engine for a high mileage model. Those make good power and I believe they have an honest to goodness 6 speed dual clutch "powershift" transmission for it.

Sounds like a good idea. I guess we'll just have to wait and see on the ford engine though...

[2KWIK4U]

I would like to build an flappy paddle automatic. I must be getting older that I don't want to shift that much. Besides my wife has told me she want's it to have a automatic, so I guess she has given me my opinion!!

[armstrom]

I know this is going off the reservation a bit, but one option would be to go with a motorcycle engine/trans and an air shifter kit. If a 1300cc hayabusa engine can fit in (nearly) the same space as the 3cyl 1000cc Smart Car engine, I imagine it would fit nicely in the back of the 818. There are chain driven differentials that have support for reverse also.. They're not cheap, but they're out there ($3000-$4000 or so for the differential). Just another option.
-Matt

[SccrMan13]

Or just put the new ford st drivetrain in it with the dual clutch transmission. 250hp and split second shifts= awesome.

[sub322]

We have a 2006 Legacy AWD with Sport Shift, I have a great time driving it in sport mode. This could suit your friend really well.

A question for everyone, could paddle shift be made for the sport shift trans?

[BrandonDrums]

We have a 2006 Legacy AWD with Sport Shift, I have a great time driving it in sport mode. This could suit your friend really well.

A question for everyone, could paddle shift be made for the sport shift trans?

Looks like you can put in paddle shifters for just about any automatic transmission. I found a company that makes such kits online for 03-06 auto legacies but I haven't come across any how-to info yet.

**Edit, I was lazy and didn't realize someone already posted something similar

http://strafeautomotive.com/product.php?productid=17621

Also, I found that in 2007, Subaru launched coulmn mounted paddle shifters for all Legact GT and H6 models so all Legacy GT's and H6 models since have the paddle shifter buttons standard. Those models also came with the SI drive which is a cool throttle-mapping feature.
http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/...back-here.html

So, perhaps you could source a wrecked 07' Legacy GT automatic for the ECU, wire harness, steering wheel and the other interior bits since all of those will swap directly into the 818. Just put in or pull out the center diff fuse to make the tranny FWD and the rest should bolt right up (assuming the 5AT isn't too long). Depending on the interchangeability, you could then use the legacy hubs+ brakes with FFR sourced suspension bits or just source salvaged Impreza parts for the required suspension components to get a full donor set.

I think all in all, using the 07+ leggy parts would make for the easiest build vs. custom rigging the electricals to accomodate aftermarket paddle shifters. Not to mention the Transmission control unit was specifically programmed for the Legacy to have particularly quick manual shifting vs. other sport shifting autos.

BUT If I wanted the paddle shifters, I'd probably spring for a crate ford ecoboost and transmission if FFR ends up making it an optional factory drivetrain for the 818 since it's a true dual clutch. But you can make way more power with the Subaru bits and for less than with the Ecoboost stuff.

[StatGSR]

^5EATs dont have a fwd fuse. The transmission doesnt use a clutch pack like the old ones to send power to the rear. Atleast that is what i thought i learned about them.

[BrandonDrums]

^5EATs dont have a fwd fuse. The transmission doesnt use a clutch pack like the old ones to send power to the rear. Atleast that is what i thought i learned about them.

you're probably right, someone earlier in the thread said the same thing but then posted an edit saying there was a fuse for the 5EAT. I just read a thread on the leggy forums where there was some back and fourth. Looks like there is a fuse but instead of being fully FWD, it goes to something like 75% fwd and 25% rear which would burn the clutch pack in the center diff.

http://legacygt.com/forums/showthrea...at-153077.html

The guy in there has a poorly written explanation but seems to know what he's talking about. He says the 5EAT has a planetary center diff vs. the 6mt and 5mt's traditional spider gear differential. Regardless, since it's a geared diff and not an electronically controlled wet clutch torque converter system, I bet you can weld the diff up to full lock or even replace it with a closed gearset to make it 100% FWD.

I'll look around more for pictures of the planetary diff from the 5EAT, perhaps we can see if that mod is plausible.

[Doc_FFR]

Or just put the new ford st drivetrain in it with the dual clutch transmission. 250hp and split second shifts= awesome.

Do you think that the handling might suffer with a non-boxer type engine?

[thebeerbaron]

Do you think that the handling might suffer with a non-boxer type engine?

Oh, why don't we dig up this corpse again?

Kidding. But the debate has gone around in a complete circle a few times on this one. I think the best answer was along the lines of "maybe, but probably not unless you're an alien behind the wheel"... But I'm probably wrong

[Doc_FFR]

...just in time for the walking dead to come back on TV!

Sorry, I missed the previous debate.

[SccrMan13]

It could put more weight over the rear tires for traction. Should be just like a cheaper lotus elise. I really want to see a drivetrain with a dct

[StatGSR]

Or just put the new ford st drivetrain in it with the dual clutch transmission. 250hp and split second shifts= awesome.

where are you getting this information from? everything i read about the new ST is that it comes with a 6spd manual and the DCT is used in all the lower models as a replacement for a traditional automatic, on top of that i hear the DCT is actual pretty lousy, not good as an automatic, and not sharp enough to be like a good DCT...

[SccrMan13]

I saw it listed on a probably unreliable auto blog. The transmission that they should use is the getrag powershift 6DCT451. I have no clue if it would fit. As far as the shifting is concerned that is more than likely the ecu settings which can be altered. Look what hpa motorsports tune has done for the vw dsg box.

[riptide motorsport]

heres a great option!;

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...r-clutch-pedal