Optima battery? A request

[aspbite]

Buy an Odyssey. I have a PC545, weighs 14#, 7x4x5.25". Never had an issue, and it's made right here in Missouri. Jeff didn't jump it.

Optima's are made in Mexico I think

That Odyssey number is a motorcycle battery. Only 150 CCA. [Stock Harley is over 300 CCA] It will never turn over a V8.
I bought one for my 100 inch Harley and it wouldn't turn it over, even with compression releases.
Bought a Duracell and it spins it like nobody's business.

[rich grsc]

That Odyssey number is a motorcycle battery. Only 150 CCA. [Stock Harley is over 300 CCA] It will never turn over a V8.
I bought one for my 100 inch Harley and it wouldn't turn it over, even with compression releases.
Bought a Duracell and it spins it like nobody's business.

Well it must be magic then, because it starts my 10 to 1, 331 every time. It's been doing so for over 2 years. If you can see, in post #37, it's mounted right on the foot box.

[Just puttering]

https://www.optimabatteries.com/en-u...pecial-charger

Info from the source

[RBachman]

...I have some legitimate question for you guys with the AGM batteries: Why? Seriously what drove your decision? What does the AGM battery do/not do vs a wet lead acid battery? Paul or others; do you keep them on the charger when parked for an extended period? Those of you who do this have you experienced any failures?

Jeff

Jeff, we've had them in our motor coach(s) and boat for years. I upgraded to these because of their deep cycle capabilities and they don't leak like others do...or shouldn't. Our first RV had cheap batteries and we upgraded to Lifeline AGM's. We did the same when we traded up to a new coach. The "house" batteries are six large 6-volt deep cycle AGM's and then two more 12-volt for starting batteries. The batteries are made in the USA by Lifeline Batteries and have a good reputation. This is our second coach with Lifeline Batteries. I also have three of the 12-volts in my boat for 3 years without issue and it starts every time. (Though I also had a disconnect switch so there was no drain.) In all I've purchased 20 deep cycle batteries over the last 7 or 8 years. Only one has given me problems and that's the Optima and it's not a year old. The Lifelines have never disappointed. So with 19 of the things over a period of 7 years I never had a failure. (Three years for the first coach, and almost 4 for the second.) Then came Optima.

However, they are HEAVY. The boat/RV batteries run around 80 to 90 pounds a copy. I'll go with a non-lead acid battery, but will not use Optima ever again.

I'm actually researching the Lithium-Ion starting batteries now. Here's what I've discovered thus far from that research:
LI batteries add 100 horse power to any car
They cut drag in half
They are so light weight your car will weigh 150 pounds less.
Prevents engine over heating
You'll never have to change oil again
They even reduce the stopping distance by half
Your 1/4 mile times are at least 1.9 seconds faster with 0-60 in under 2.4.
These batteries automatically balance the corners, correct alignment problems and restore rusted parts to new condition
Your MPG will increase by 75%
You will never need to wash your car again
They take 20 years off your age and you'll live past 125
Bikini models will follow you home and your wife will great them with open arms

Oops...maybe that's the Optima?
LOL!

[rich grsc]

Jeff, we've had them in our motor coach(s) and boat for years. I upgraded to these because of their deep cycle capabilities and they don't leak like others do...or shouldn't. Our first RV had cheap batteries and we upgraded to Lifeline AGM's. We did the same when we traded up to a new coach. The "house" batteries are six large 6-volt deep cycle AGM's and then two more 12-volt for starting batteries. The batteries are made in the USA by Lifeline Batteries and have a good reputation. This is our second coach with Lifeline Batteries. I also have three of the 12-volts in my boat for 3 years without issue and it starts every time. (Though I also had a disconnect switch so there was no drain.) In all I've purchased 20 deep cycle batteries over the last 7 or 8 years. Only one has given me problems and that's the Optima and it's not a year old. The Lifelines have never disappointed. So with 19 of the things over a period of 7 years I never had a failure. (Three years for the first coach, and almost 4 for the second.) Then came Optima.

However, they are HEAVY. The boat/RV batteries run around 80 to 90 pounds a copy. I'll go with a non-lead acid battery, but will not use Optima ever again.

I'm actually researching the Lithium-Ion starting batteries now. Here's what I've discovered thus far from that research:
LI batteries add 100 horse power to any car
They cut drag in half
They are so light weight your car will weigh 150 pounds less.
Prevents engine over heating
You'll never have to change oil again
They even reduce the stopping distance by half
Your 1/4 mile times are at least 1.9 seconds faster with 0-60 in under 2.4.
These batteries automatically balance the corners, correct alignment problems and restore rusted parts to new condition
Your MPG will increase by 75%
You will never need to wash your car again
They take 20 years off your age and you'll live past 125
Bikini models will follow you home and your wife will great them with open arms

Oops...maybe that's the Optima?
LOL!

What ever your taking, can I get some!!!

[aspbite]

Well it must be magic then, because it starts my 10 to 1, 331 every time. It's been doing so for over 2 years. If you can see, in post #37, it's mounted right on the foot box.

That's interesting. Maybe I got a bad one. Never worked from day 1
Or, maybe it is magic
I definetly would never buy another one based on my experience.

[Gizmosrcool]

I have been using battery tender brand chargers on all my toys for many years. Two harleys and a 68 Plymouth sport fury. The Plymouth has a red top. Keeps it fresh as I’m not running it a lot. Mostly the bikes. They handle AGM and GEL. The Harley’s have security system and the tender is needed in the winter months. I also have one on a big generator. Just to be sure it starts. I am a fan of the tenders. They work.

[tbl100]

Agree. Was my feeble attempt at putting humor into the discussion. I personally never had trouble with MSD boxes. But my sample size was a grand total of two. Lots of other people did though, and they certainly got beat up whenever mentioned on the forum. Same now it seems for Optima.



Can't say it was a terribly scientific or widely researched decision on my part. I put a red top Optima in my first Mk3 build in 2010. In the stock trunk location. Selected it based on what I thought was a good reputation plus at that time Costco carried them and price and carry-in warranty was attractive. That battery is still going today. For the two Mk4's I've built, both have the Breeze front mount battery. Didn't find a lot of choices for the recommended Group 51 size battery (even though I know there are several) and decided to go with the deep cycle yellow top Optimas that could be ordered with the posts in the best orientation. Again, based on reputation that I was under the impression was good. Plus hoping to get long life since they're not particularly easy to change in that location. Especially #8674 with the Coyote. I use a CTEK 3300 charger which has an AGM selection for testing and charging. During the driving season, don't use it. For winter storage, I don't leave it permanently connected. Several times during the storage time, I put the charger on to check and top it off. So far all good. The one in #8674 is coming up to four years old. Don't know about #7750. Haven't heard from the current owner in NY for awhile. That one would be 6-1/2 years old now. The Odessey AGM I chose for the Coupe build uses the same CTEK charger, and I'm planning on treating it the same. Too early to report any long term experience. OK so far. Agree with Derald on how clean they stay. I've never had a trace of corrosion on the posts or clamps.

What do you mean by "they're not particularly easy to change in that location"? I am planning on using the Breeze battery box on my Mk4 w/Coyote. Are there some issues I should be aware of? I thought it was supposed to be easier in this location. I am also wondering if a Group 51 battery is big enough for the Coyote?

The specs for a Group 51 seems to be about ~3/4 what a Group 35 is. Is it enough?

Thanks,
Tim

[rich grsc]

What do you mean by "they're not particularly easy to change in that location"? I am planning on using the Breeze battery box on my Mk4 w/Coyote. Are there some issues I should be aware of? I thought it was supposed to be easier in this location. I am also wondering if a Group 51 battery is big enough for the Coyote?

The specs for a Group 51 seems to be about ~3/4 what a Group 35 is. Is it enough?

Thanks,
Tim

Way big enough.

[edwardb]

What do you mean by "they're not particularly easy to change in that location"? I am planning on using the Breeze battery box on my Mk4 w/Coyote. Are there some issues I should be aware of? I thought it was supposed to be easier in this location. I am also wondering if a Group 51 battery is big enough for the Coyote?

The specs for a Group 51 seems to be about ~3/4 what a Group 35 is. Is it enough?

Thanks,
Tim

Not a big deal. Pretty minor actually. Just that there are some obstructions over top of the front battery area. Easy to reach the terminals and mounting. In my case, like others I used a Mustang expansion tank for my Coyote installation. So that, along with the cold air intake, upper radiator hose, hoses for the expansion tank, etc. mean that some disassembly will be required to lift the battery out completely. Again, not a big deal and I wouldn't use it as a reason not to use the front mounting. A group 51 battery easily handles the Coyote, as it would any of the other commonly used engines. Nothing special about the Coyote in that regard.

[tbl100]

Not a big deal. Pretty minor actually. Just that there are some obstructions over top of the front battery area. Easy to reach the terminals and mounting. In my case, like others I used a Mustang expansion tank for my Coyote installation. So that, along with the cold air intake, upper radiator hose, hoses for the expansion tank, etc. mean that some disassembly will be required to lift the battery out completely. Again, not a big deal and I wouldn't use it as a reason not to use the front mounting. A group 51 battery easily handles the Coyote, as it would any of the other commonly used engines. Nothing special about the Coyote in that regard.

Oh, wow, yeah I didn't even think about all the stuff you mentioned that goes in above that area. Thanks for the reality check.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I agree with what edwardb said RE: access which is what prompted my initial post---even in front they can wind up somewhat buried. That initial post by the way was intended to carry a good bit of sarcasm but apparently that didn't come through and the topic grew legs!

Jeff

[GTBradley]

It’s a good discussion and helps people understand their options.

Still not convinced there is an advantage to leaving my old-fashioned lead acid battery. And the first thing I thought of when reading the very technical “what to do if you deeply discharge your AGM battery” was, what if I leave the lights on and kill the the battery at an overnight stop? Can you jump start the AGM when it’s that dead?

[Big Blocker]

Rather than "jump start" the battery, why not "push start" the car. Don't we all have stick-shift cars (Roadsters)?? IF you have enough power to turn on your dash lights, or even get the starter to click, you should be able to push start the car. Once running, it should take a charge enough to get you going again.

Just a thought . . .

Doc

[edwardb]

It’s a good discussion and helps people understand their options.

Still not convinced there is an advantage to leaving my old-fashioned lead acid battery. And the first thing I thought of when reading the very technical “what to do if you deeply discharge your AGM battery” was, what if I leave the lights on and kill the the battery at an overnight stop? Can you jump start the AGM when it’s that dead?

Traditional lead acid batteries don't like to be deeply discharged either. Will shorten their life significantly. So don't think that's a real difference. AGM's do have a specific process for bringing them back if/when it happens, and chargers which have an AGM function typically provide. There are of course deep cycle lead acid batteries, as well as deep cycle AGM (e.g. Optima yellow top) which are made to tolerate it better. If you want an Optima in the Group 51 size, they only come in the deep cycle yellow top variety. Which is one of the reasons they're more expensive.

[Railroad]

Rather than "jump start" the battery, why not "push start" the car. Don't we all have stick-shift cars (Roadsters)?? IF you have enough power to turn on your dash lights, or even get the starter to click, you should be able to push start the car. Once running, it should take a charge enough to get you going again.

Just a thought . . .

Doc

That is one solution, if you did not add all the safety stuff, ie clutch in, to start, trans in neutral, to start, key off, then on to start, etc.

[rich grsc]

That is one solution, if you did not add all the safety stuff, ie clutch in, to start, trans in neutral, to start, key off, then on to start, etc.

That won't have anything to do with bump starting, that just prevents the starter form working.

[Railroad]

That won't have anything to do with bump starting, that just prevents the starter form working.

Oops, thanks, as you were.

[GTBradley]

Traditional lead acid batteries don't like to be deeply discharged either. Will shorten their life significantly. So don't think that's a real difference. AGM's do have a specific process for bringing them back if/when it happens, and chargers which have an AGM function typically provide. There are of course deep cycle lead acid batteries, as well as deep cycle AGM (e.g. Optima yellow top) which are made to tolerate it better. If you want an Optima in the Group 51 size, they only come in the deep cycle yellow top variety. Which is one of the reasons they're more expensive.

So you can jump start an AGM, that's good. I have though had too much experience with running lead acid batteries dead and they do tolerate it to a degree. I've done it to my 7-year-old original Tacoma battery probably three or four times. But still, at $150 more than the lead acid it's just not for me.

[JimLev]

Optima’s used to be the best out there. Then they got sold off-shore! I use NAPA batteries and have had good luck with them. They have great warranties. Those that know me will be surprised!!!

Henry

Another plug for the NAPA battery. I replaced the BMW battery in 2008 with a NAPA Legend battery. It is still in the car and working just fine. If I don't drive it for a week or so I connect a smart charger to it....when I remember.

For my Hotrod I bought an Oddssey PC925 AGM.

Good videos Scotty.

[Randy's]

I'm using a AGM type battery from Bosch. Only had it six months but no issues yet. Anyone else use this brand?

[Randy's]

I'm using an AGM battery from Bosch. Only six months old but no issues yet. Anyone else using this brand?

[jlw]

Great! I just broke down and bought two red tops for my plow truck and now I read this.
This truck sits sometimes for two or three weeks at a time and was killing lead acid batteries left and right. I was lucky to get two years out of them. So I thought I'd "upgrade" to the Optimas. Was hoping they would not go dead so fast and I would be fine leaving it for three weeks at a time. Everything was fine for the first six months but then they died on me as well. Now I have one that I don't think is charging. Ugh!
What brand of trickle charger do you guys use/recommend?

I had the same issue with a SEA DOO years ago. Was lucky to get two years out of a battery. I put an Odyssey battery in it and never had another issue for the last five years that I had it.
Was hoping to get the same results with this truck.

[Papa]

Not to incite a riot, but Optima AGM batteries can be charged with a typical battery charger. The following is from the Optima website:

Both the OPTIMA Chargers Digital 400 and Digital 1200 12V Performance Battery Charger and Maintainer enhance the performance of OPTIMA and other AGM batteries, recover deeply discharged batteries and extend battery life. However, under normal vehicle-starting applications, most regular automatic lead-acid battery chargers will properly charge an OPTIMA battery. However, since OPTIMA batteries are frequently used in high-performance applications or nonstandard vehicle-starting applications, there are certain instances that must be given special considerations.

An OPTIMA battery is an AGM battery, not a gel battery or regular flooded battery. A deeply discharged OPTIMA battery (less than 10.5 volts) will not test or recharge properly if treated as a gel battery or regular flooded battery. A handheld electronic battery tester will most likely provide inaccurate results.

An OPTIMA battery has the benefit of very low internal resistance, which allows high-amperage output as well as efficient charge acceptance. This benefit also allows an OPTIMA battery to run longer than its specified ratings and run at a lower voltage than typical flooded batteries. All of this can lead to confusion when it comes to recharging a deeply discharged OPTIMA. Most basic battery chargers have a built-in function to prevent charging a battery with less than 10.5 volts. If your OPTIMA battery is discharged below that, the battery charger may not start up.

Most high-quality, modern battery chargers now have built-in features to charge AGM batteries like OPTIMA batteries. Some have specific AGM settings, which should be used to charge an OPTIMA battery. Do not use gel or gel/AGM settings, as they will not fully charge an OPTIMA battery and could damage it over time. However, even some AGM-compatible chargers will not recharge deeply discharged (less than 10.5 volts) OPTIMA batteries. In those instances, it may be necessary to follow the parallel charging instructions.

For regular charging, we recommend a maximum of 10 amps, 13.8 to 15.0 volts. For float charging, we recommend one amp maximum, 13.2 to 13.8 volts.

Under normal (engine-starting) conditions, an OPTIMA battery should never experience “at-rest” voltages below 10.5 volts. In these applications, most 12-volt chargers (old or new) or alternators will sufficiently recharge an OPTIMA battery with at least 10.5 volts. Typically, we only see issues with charging when it relates to stand-alone deep-cycling applications or severely discharged OPTIMA batteries.

These guidelines are intended for typical consumer applications. For military, commercial applications or new equipment design, please contact OPTIMA for additional technical information and assistance.

[Steven K]

The best battery I ever had was a Panasonic battery that came with my 2003 4Runner. It lasted 14 years and about 225,000 miles.

[beetlespin]

I use four blue tops in my boat that are made for starting and deep cycle. I fish mainly electric only lakes which uses a lot of battery power. Got about four years out of the first four.

It is important that once they are discharged to get them on a charger as soon as possible. I like these because there's no water to check or spill. Once you spilled battery water/acid on aluminum you'll know what I mean.

[Avalanche325]

There are hundreds of "brands". But there are only three or four companies that manufacture them all in the US. There may be a couple, under Johnson Controls for example, that manufacture separately to their own specs. But there truly isn't as much choice as you think.

For instance - NAPA of course does not actually make batteries. They used to be made by Exide, then they apparently switched to Deka which is East Penn. You can see how your favorite brand may be completely different the next time you buy it.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

There are hundreds of "brands". But there are only three or four companies that manufacture them all in the US. There may be a couple, under Johnson Controls for example, that manufacture separately to their own specs. But there truly isn't as much choice as you think.

For instance - NAPA of course does not actually make batteries. They used to be made by Exide, then they apparently switched to Deka which is East Penn. You can see how your favorite brand may be completely different the next time you buy it.

+1 Johnson Controls, the world's largest manufacturer of automotive batteries makes Optima in Mexico.

[edwardb]

+1 Johnson Controls, the world's largest manufacturer of automotive batteries makes Optima in Mexico.

Have seen this mentioned in automotive related news sources for the past year or so. Now official. Johnson Controls is out of the battery business. Summarized in Wikipedia:

"The Johnson Controls Power Solutions unit was sold to Brookfield Business Partners and re-made into a new company, Clarios, as of May 1, 2019.

The Power Solutions business unit designs and manufactures automotive batteries for passenger cars, heavy and light duty trucks, utility vehicles, motorcycles, golf carts and boats. It supplies more than one third of the world's lead-acid batteries to automakers and aftermarket retailers including Wal-Mart, Sears, Toyota, and BMW. Lead acid battery brands produced under this business unit include Continental, OPTIMA, Heliar, LTH, Delkor and VARTA automotive batteries. This part of the company also manufactures Lithium-ion cells and complete battery systems to power hybrid and electric vehicles such as the Ford Fusion and Daimler's S-Class 400. Additionally, it manufactures Absorbent Glass Matt (AGM) and Enhanced Flooded Batteries (EFB) batteries to power Start-Stop vehicles such as the Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion. On November 13, 2018 Johnson Controls agrees to sell its Power Solutions Division to Brookfield Business Partners."

[Grande]

I totally agree with Jeff about having jumper posts, no matter which type of battery installed. (Just as a note and info,) ,and in defense to these batteries, most of the damage or failures are caused by ourselves without knowing, (excluding a natural dead battery from a drain) These batteries are AGM batteries which must and should be charged with an intelligent charger. What that means is a constant 14,4 voltage charge with a PWM (pulse width modulation) technology. So if we charge these batteries with our regular shop charger, or slow charger, we are actually damaging these batteries and shorten there life span drastically. Most chargers today use this technology (called smart charging). I just wanted to post info, hopefully doesn't come out as a smart *** remark. And God bless Jeff. I actually am soooo jealous of his talents (along with some others I am secretly following in my build- without posts, isn't that mean?

[RBachman]

Jeff,

I thought about you and this post today when jump starting my Jeep...and when trying to charge the battery...and when buying a replacement battery...and when yanking that yellow hunk of $$$$$ junk out of my car. But then again, it's over a year old now, and I've discovered that's about the life expectancy of the darn things. Mine had swelled up and distorted itself a little also. LOL.

[cv2065]

Jeff's right. I have a yellow top (new), and after about 4 weeks of non use, it needed to be charged before I could start. After 2 weeks, it was capable but not 100%. And I do have a smart charger for AGM batteries. So I guess I'll be sending my charger with the car when it goes to Jeff!

[edwardb]

I must be doing something wrong. I've used the Optima Group 51 yellow top on three builds. All have been rock solid. Current one in #8674 is 4 years old. Don't touch it during driving season. During winter storage, I throw my CTEK charger on it every month or two. Does a diagnostic and tops it off. Last time was a couple weeks ago and it was fine.

Some kind of charge issue if a battery is swelling up. Drain after two weeks I'd be looking for parasitic draw. In either case, if the battery is really defective, they do have a 36 month replacement warranty. Not saying the Optima AGM's are the best and they certainly aren't the cheapest. But IMO there has to be more to the story for some of what's being reported.

[Avalanche325]

I chose a RedTop for a few reasons:
I wanted it under the trunk floor for:
A. weight distribution.
B. Don't have to look at it in my engine bay
C. Heat is terrible for batteries.

and they don't have a corrosion problem. Which is great for under the trunk.

Zero maintenance.
They had, at the time, a very good reputation.

Almost forgot. Red is faster!

Accessibility is not even a concern for me. I haven't seen my battery in 5 years and 24k+ miles. There is nothing that says that jumper cables, battery tenders, jump packs have to physically hook to the battery posts. I can hook to my positive junction block on the firewall and anything bare for negative. If it is a PITA to replace once every 7-10 years, so what? Now that I said that, I'm sure my battery will die within a week.