That’s awesome Paul!
Chris
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That’s awesome Paul!
Chris
Generation 3 Type 65 Daytona Coupe Complete Kit #151885 received May 6, 2022. Gen 3 Coyote, IRS, Tremec TKX, American Powertrain hydraulic throwout bearing & Wilwood brakes.
MK4 Basic Kit #7404, 347 EFI - Pro M Racing ECM, 30# injectors, 70 mm throttle body, 80 mm MAF, Edelbrock Performer aluminum heads & RPM II intake, all new G-Force T5, 3:55 gears, Pro 5.0 shifter, 3-link, carbon fiber dash/custom Speedhut gauges and paint by Da Bat.
Awesome job Paul, well deserved. I tried making it down there Friday, but the traffic and congestion got the better of me, turned around and went back home to work on the roadster.
MkIV Complete Kit #9423, Gen 3 Coyote, TKO-600, IRS Torsen 3.73, Wilwoods, DA Konis - Delivered 9/14/18
Congrats Paul. They are just confirming with that award what we all already knew!
Ok great thread and all that but clearly the question on all of our minds....
WHAT ARE YOU BUILDING NEXT AND WHEN DOES IT START??? hahaha
MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-build-thread
PHIL 4:13 INSTAGRAM - @scottsrides
Congrats Paul! I would have only been surprised if you DIDN'T bring home the trophy
Jeff
Paul, I would have to 2nd what Jeff said. Congratulations!
Rick
Mk4 with Mr. Bruce FIA body, 331 w/ Speedmaster Stack Injection, Full Width Roll Bar with high brake lights by i.e.427, IRS, ABS, PS, PB, FAST FI, First start 3/30/20, First go-kart 7/5/20, paint by Ken Pike
Thanks for all the congrats and comments. Much appreciated. What's next? At least for the short term seems to have things I've been promising the last couple years... basement, half bath vanity, something about shades, our storage shed, you get the drift. Not planning any build threads on any of those projects if that's OK.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Congratulations Paul!!!!! So well deserved!!!
Congratulations Paul. Well deserved. Now in a few weeks will come some more fun - - - driving it.
CTHiker (Gary).
Fantastic Paul! You earned it!
Congratulations on another awesome build and a well deserved award! Also thanks for sharing all your knowledge and build threads. I reference them all the time.
Mk IV Roadster #9749, Kit received Jan 2, 2020, Blueprint SBF 347 TKO600 Holley Sniper EFI, Dual roll bars, IRS, 17" Halibrand, Nitto 555 G2 245, 315 Road legal Oct 20, 2020
Congrats Paul on another 1st place showing and the completion of another amazing build! You have quite a trend going there, two back to back 1st place showings... what's next????
MK4 20th Anniversary Roadster #8692 - #9 of 20
Purchased Aug 2015 - Street Legal July 2019
Graduation Thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ry-MK4-9-of-20
Thanks! No plans for another build at this moment. Aside from not knowing what would be next, would mean getting rid of one of the two I have now. And I don't see that happening. We'll see. Actually though three Autorama firsts in a row. Not that I'm counting. Both Mk4 Roadsters and now the Coupe. My first build, the Mk3, took a second. First that year was a Superformance. Figure that out for a handbuilt class. But another judge pointed out to me I didn't have the battery disconnected, which is required by the rules. Probably was penalized for that. I had the master disconnect off and thought that was enough. But turns out they want the cable physically off the post. Rookie mistake and hasn't happened again.
I don't know much about the subject. I do know RCR is one source and was the GT40 replica used in the Ford vs. Ferrari movie. I understand they provided 30 of them. Just saw one at Autorama. Still had dirt on it. RCR is local to me here in SE Michigan. A buddy that lives just down the street is building one. I'm surprised how small it is. Nice looking kit with high quality parts. But not without issues either. Cool car but not something I'm particularly interested in doing myself.
Last edited by edwardb; 03-04-2020 at 07:06 AM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Well done, congratulations on another win. Just back from a ski trip to Jasper and i had to check how you did.
David W
Mkll 4874 built in 2004
Gen 3 coupe #16 registered 2018 painted 2019
Nothing but the highest admiration, Paul! Your passion, dedication, and willingness to share your skills are unparalleled.
MKIV #8740, Canadian base kit, Picked up Dec. 2015, ‘98 Cobra 4.6 l DOHC, T45 transmission, old style IRS, Art Cuesta dieted harness/Ron Francis chassis harness, go-cart July 2018.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Big progress today. Local sheriff department dispatched an officer to my house and he signed off the inspection report. Was a super nice guy and very helpful. He loved the car which didn't hurt. With that in hand, went to the SOS office (Michigan's version of the DMV) and waited for 2-1/2 hours. But I have my VIN number and the title application is complete and on its way to Lansing. They said it looked like I'd done this before. Hmm... In a few weeks (hopefully) I'll get the call for the VIN tag and title. Then the easy part. One more visit for registration and plates and I'm good to go. Only downside to the day was I'm now a little lighter in the pocketbook. The tax man finally had to be dealt with.
Won't be long now.
Last edited by edwardb; 03-05-2020 at 06:43 AM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Another stunning bold Paul. I really like the colour on the coupe and I’m typically not a red guy. Are you taking to her to the open house this year? I may come down roadster’less but regardless enjoy being there.
Kyle
Complete Kit pickup 09/05/2015, 351w, QF680, 3.55, 3-Link, 15" Halibrands with MT's, Painted Viking blue with Wimbledon white stripes on 03/15/2017. Sold in 08/2018 and totally regret it.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
MKIV complete kit w/powder coating and cut outs, serial #9189 delivered 10/10/17, first start - 10/5/18, legal - 10/08/20. Blueprint 306 w/Holley Sniper EFI, TKO 600, power steering, Breeze fan shroud, trunk cubby, & engine compartment battery kit, CNC brake reservoirs, RT turn signal & gas pedal, mechanical throttle linkage, METCO safety loop, GASN side pipes, drop trunk, dual chrome roll bars, vintage gauges, glove box, custom center console, cup holders, and speakers.
Are the taxes based on the finished car value if so would it make sense to get it plated before the car is finished.
I can't speak definitively for states other than Michigan. For a new title based on the Certificate of Origin, the value is based on the purchase price. I had to produce original receipts for the kit, engine, and trans. Simple math after that. Way less than the finished car value. At least it better be! I suspect most/all states are similar.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Ok. That makes sense. Thanks. Awesome work.
Paul, from the first time I contacted you about my possible purchase of my 20th kit I've followed your build threads. I've had many conversations with others from this forum about your attention to detail, your eye for what looks great. Your builds have been great from the start, but you knocked it out of the park on this one. Fantastic job!!!
Mk4 20th Anniversary #8690 (#8 of 20) Purchased 8/18/18----Build Started 8/19/18
Build Thread Click Here / Registry Entry Click Here / BluePrint Engines 347ci / TKO600
Carb/Heater/Heated Seats/Cruise Control/Drop Trunk & Battery/Custom Cubby
After passing the inspection and completing the title application early last week, I expected it would be some weeks as it's been in the past before the next step for the VIN tag and title. Imagine my surprise when the agent called yesterday and said he had the VIN tag ready to put on my car. Everything was approved. He said he'd looked over my application including a picture I had included with my application. Said he was anxious to see my car so could he come in the next hour or two? Of course I said yes and he was here not long after. We ended up talking cars for an hour or so after the tag was affixed under the dash near the FF engraved serial number. He said the title was in the mail, but I could go to the SOS office and get my registration and plate any time since the VIN was on file. That's an easy step, but will wait for the weather to officially warm up a bit. Could be another month or so, but I'll be watching. I have to have proof of insurance for the plate, so no point in getting in too much of a hurry if I can't drive it. But I'm ready and not much stopping me now.
I'm working on the A/C system. Getting it finalized and charged. Doing it myself as I had tentatively planned. I'll do an update when that's done. All new to me, so it's been a learning experience.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
One of the very last items on my final punch list was charging the A/C. As shown previously, my build has the Factory Five optional Coyote Gen3 Coupe heat and A/C package. Mechanically installed pretty much like the instructions. The two main changes I made were the vents and the control panel. I changed the end vents from the underneath side of the dash to the front plus added two more vents in the center. For the control panel, integrated the controls into the custom switch panel between the dash and the transmission tunnel cover. The temperature and fan controls are the ones from the kit. The A/C on/off switch is a custom rocker matching my other switches. All of this was covered in more detail in previous posts.
Once the engine was installed and running, easy enough to test the heater and it works. Nothing more to say there. But getting the A/C charged and tested has been waiting for time, warmer weather, and me deciding whether I would do it myself or take it somewhere. I decided to give it a try myself. I have zero experience and little knowledge about this subject, so decided to use it as a learning experience which I enjoy. Some tools are required. Which I didn’t have. But functional tools, e.g. not the most expensive but also not the cheapest, were roughly the same cost has having a shop do the work. If there were any issues, leaks, whatever, that would only increase the cost. Plus, to be honest, I don’t like other people working on my car when it’s something I can do myself. Kind of the same rationale I used to tool up for alignments a couple builds ago. Plus who among us doesn't like an excuse for more tools? So this post will describe tools I bought, the process, and how it turned out. Spoiler alert – the A/C blows cold. Isn’t that the most important thing?
There are only a few tools required to do an A/C charge the right way. A manifold gauge set and vacuum pump are the biggest ticket items, plus a couple smaller items. I spent a lot of time looking at options for the manifold gauge set. There are units out there from $30 to multiple hundreds or more for pro quality. I only looked at analog gauges. There are digital options too, but the cost goes up and not really needed for the occasional DIY'er. I read dozens of reviews and watched a bunch of review videos. There were almost none, in any price range, that didn’t have both good and bad reviews. So obviously a lot of variation in quality. Probably also a lot of variation in users. But that’s always the case, right? I settled on a middle of the road DIY quality set from Mastercool. Their 89660-PRO5. $88 at Amazon. It’s made only for R134a, so additional adapters or connectors aren’t necessary. Also came with a case which is important since it will spend a lot of time there. Everything about it worked perfectly during my work yesterday and today. For the vacuum pump, also looked at a lot of options and also possible to spend very little up to a lot. Decided to go Harbor Freight with this. Their 61245 2.5CFM unit. $76 with the usual 20% off coupon and tax. Good reviews and worked well. Also has an R134a connection, so no adapter required. I also bought a Mastercool 85510 R134a Can Tap and Valve (more about that later) and a Robinair 10596 Dial Thermometer. Total tools right at $165. Add supplies and I was just under $200. Already had safety goggles and gloves, which are highly recommended. Not bad and can now service my own system for only the cost of supplies.
One caveat though. With this setup it’s only possible to do a complete charge on a new system like this one, and then monitor and service in the future. However, if a complete system purge is required, that needs to be taken to a professional. The equipment required is cost prohibitive for DIY. Purging to the atmosphere is dangerous, illegal, and irresponsible. If that’s required at some point in the future, I’ll pay someone to do it and move on. Still would be able to do the system charge myself afterwards.
You will not a find a shortage of articles and YouTube videos about charging your A/C system. I read and watched a bunch of them. Some well done. Many not. But after a while, the process became pretty clear and worked for me. There were several I found especially helpful, but this was probably one of the more informative and well-constructed videos I used: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pdq8JAlct6s&t=5s.
First thing up was how much charge to put in the system. Related to that was how much oil. DD’s have an underhood sticker showing the proper amounts, with R134a by weight. No such luck here obviously. It’s possible to get reasonably close on the R134a by the gauges and measuring the output temperature. At least that’s what I’m counting on. But oil is another issue and here I have a short story. When I received my Gen 3 Coyote, I installed the alternator and A/C compressor finishing up the front accessory drive. Also installed the hose adapter blocks onto the compressor. This meant I removed the sealed caps on the compressor and replaced with the blocks and their loose-fitting caps. During that same timeframe discovered the oil pickup tube issue with the Gen 3 Coyote, discussed at length previously. The engine was on the engine stand for a number of weeks, often upside down as I was dealing with the oil pickup and oil pan. I noticed oil dripping on the catch pan I had underneath. Most of it was engine oil. But some of it was clear and I determined it was coming from the compressor. In hindsight, should have done something then. But I didn’t. Proceeded to install the engine and move to this point in the build. In doing research for the A/C, found that most new compressors come pre-charged with a certain amount of oil. Uh-Oh. The label on the back of the compressor says 4 ounces. So how much dripped out? Just a few drops? Or some significant amount? After thinking about it for several days, decided the right choice was to take the compressor off, drain the oil, and fill with the right amount. Too big a risk otherwise. No way to drain it while installed on the engine. Fortunately, it’s pretty open from the bottom to remove. Didn’t like taking the hoses off, but actually was a good thing. Found I had cut an O-ring when installing one of the hoses previously. Worst was getting that silly elastic serpentine belt off and back on. But what I found was about 2-1/2 ounces of oil in the compressor. So it had leaked enough that it was good I checked. The system uses PAG 46 oil (pretty common) but of course Ford has a very specific one. Double end-capped (DEC). Look it up if you want an explanation. I’m not going to try. I had to take Chemistry 101 twice so that it didn't kill my GPA. Only that I’m pretty much a slave to using specified fluids, and unfortunately this one isn’t too common. Not in local parts stores. But of course Amazon had it. Motorcraft YN-12-D.
With the oil in the compressor filled to the right amount, the only thing left was how much to have in the overall system. Found that Ford lists a current Mustang GT as 7 ounces total. But that’s with an accumulator and this system doesn’t use one. Asked Factory Five. They said use what was in the compressor and charge with one of the “1st Charge” cans that contains oil, as shown in the instructions. That product says it adds 1 ounce of oil. Being uncertain, I posted a thread and got some good advice from forum member mike223. Settled on adding one additional ounce, which I put in a line before re-attaching to the compressor. So total oil in my system is 6 ounces.
OK, so finally with everything put back together, tools on hand, and oil in the system, time to vacuum out the system and add the R134a charge. Here I won’t be so long winded because the process is documented in the video I referenced (plus dozens more) and is pretty straightforward. Although a couple bumps that I’ll mention. Hooked up the gauges and drew a vacuum on the system. Turned off the pump and noted the readings. Came back an hour later and they hadn’t changed. Good! No obvious leaks. Turned the pump back on and let it run for an hour to evacuate and dry the system. With that done, hooked up the first can (the 1st Charge) and was able to get some in but then stopped as the pressure equalized. So started the engine and the A/C intending to get the rest of the can in. But unfortunately, there still wasn’t enough pressure in the system for the compressor to start. This can happen as many instructions note. I had to jump start the compressor by applying +12v to the positive lead on the clutch. Took more of the can and then there was enough pressure for the system to control the compressor as its supposed to. Bump #1 resolved. I had to work with the valve on the can for it to keep coming out, but eventually was empty. Hooked up the second can and nothing came out. Tried the third with the same result. Dug deeper and found bump #2. Found that in 2018 these kinds of cans were required to have a self-sealing valve. The piercing style can tap I bought won’t work on them. Says right there on the can, I just didn’t know enough to realize what it meant. Somehow through shear dumb luck the first can was still able to pierce and eventually discharge. But it shouldn’t have. Found there’s an adapter. Interdynamics DVA-1 and my local Advance Auto had one. Worked like a charm and was able to complete the rest of the fill. At least according to the rough pressure numbers I’m seeing. Based on the temperature and humidity and 45 or so degrees F at the outlets in the car (there are charts) my system seems to be working as it should. Feels nice and cold now. We’ll see how it feels out driving on a hot summer day. Total fill was roughly 34-35 ounces.
That’s my story. Hopefully some takeaways for others there. Was an interesting experience. Next post has some pictures.
Last edited by edwardb; 03-13-2020 at 12:39 PM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Products used:
Evacuating the system:
Filling the system (first can without the adapter):
Can tap with the adapter added (much better):
The result we’re looking for:
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Good on ya' Paul! I haven't worked on an auto AC system for 30 years so everything I knew then is long gone. Thanks for the refresher!
Jeff
*** Coupons have been claimed. Went to new builds. ***
For those following this thread (which is nearing the end BTW) for putting up with it I have a couple Summit Racing 10% off coupons. One was in the goody bag I received as an exhibitor at the Detroit Autorama two weeks ago. The other on a flyer that Summit was passing out to show attendees. These are good for 10% off any Summit order. Only conditions listed are can't be combined with other discounts and crate engines and transmission excluded. However, they do expire in just a couple weeks. 03/27/20. If you have an order coming up with Summit, and hopefully enough that this would give a significant savings, PM me and I'll get you the code. I've done this before and they were successfully used. I'll update this post if/when they're gone.
Last edited by edwardb; 03-17-2020 at 11:44 AM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
My wife and I were fortunate to see Paul's build this last Saturday, in person. As many have said, the end result is stunning. The pictures do not do it justice. With both the coupe and roadster sitting side by side, my wife and I were shocked at the level or perfection Paul achieved. Twice, no less. I too, asked Paul "What's next?". His response was perfect. Drive them. After I drooled for a while, he started the coupe. It sounded like someone pissed off the devil. I can't wait to hear it when he applies excessive pressure on the loud pedal. Woodward 2020??? Paul and his wife are THE nicest people you can and will ever meet. To the comment about some wife time, with a build like this, he's going to be doing whatever she wants for a long time. Congrats again on the recent awards and all those headed your way in the future.
Scott & Kelly
Built FFR9457. 351 Windsor, TKO600, 3.73. Fitech EFI. Russ Thompson throttle pedal, turn signal, and trunk pan. Carbon Fiber dash with Speedhut Revolution gauges. Paint by Jeff Kleiner.
Awesome award, Paul. Hope to see this beauty at Open House!
Garry
I sure miss my coupe!
F5R1004503SP 2004 Challenge Car, 331 Stroker
Coupe # 031, 422" Windsor stroker by Southern Automotive (Dash autographed by Peter Brock)***SOLD***
Unique 427 Roadster, 482" Aluminum FE by Southern Automotive***SOLD***
Big day today. I had my title and VIN about a week ago. But had to wait for an appointment at the Michigan SOS (DMV) since that's how they're handling the current situation. No walk-ins. That's OK. It was quick and painless and went without a hitch. I have a temporary tag until my vanity plate shows up in a couple weeks. Everything else is done and I'm good to go. So what to do when I got home? First real drive. Didn't go crazy since it's the first time plus threatening to start raining, which it did not long after I was back in the garage. A few times around my neighborhood just to feel things out. Then out for several miles and and back on the main street in front of my house. Total of about 8 miles. Through all the gears. Max speed about 55 mph.
Good news: All the gauge readings look fine, car handles great, chassis feels stiff, clutch and T-56 work well, steering is centered and feels good, brakes OK but clearly need to be bedded in, and heater and heated seats work great. I didn't wear my ear plugs but noise level wasn't bad. Can definitely hear/feel that Torsen diff doing its thing. Something new to get used to. Back home and checked for any leaks or anything that didn't look right. Nothing. So can't complain about any of that. It's going to be a great driver.
Not so good news: My Gen 3 Coyote is clearly not too happy yet. It kind of cuts out occasionally which if you have the gas down gives a pretty good jerk. Oddly at even RPM numbers. Like 2,000, 3,000 etc. Once back home scanned the ODB2 port, and had P0172 and P0175 codes, which is system too rich on both banks (both O2 sensors). Also had a P061B code - Internal Control Module Torque Calculation Performance, which I've seen before. Not sure if they're related. Did another short run with the nGauge and ran a log file. I'm far from an expert on such things. But looking at the data clearly shows it running too rich at certain times. I couldn't detect any correlation between the RPM drops and the data. But hard to tell (at least for me) looking at 1000 lines and 33 columns of data. What I have heard is the MAF sensor tuning in the Gen 3 is very critical. Without the stock airbox likely that's a big issue. The other thing I've heard about the Gen 3 is that the stock tune runs rich. Perhaps those two things are related. Bottom line it's driveable but not optimal and running too rich for long can't be good for it. I've already sent a message to Lund Tuning who I've used for a couple Gen 2 custom tunes. Hopefully they have experience with the Gen 3 crate motor. Seems by now they should have.
Curious if others here have their Gen 3 running and driving and what your experience has been with the stock tune.
Last edited by edwardb; 03-19-2020 at 10:15 PM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Curious if others here have their Gen 3 running and driving and what your experience has been with the stock tune.[/QUOTE]
Similar story for my Gen 2.....Dyno tune made a huge difference.
Hey Paul what about the learning capabilities as you drive it. I remember we previously knew the computer could adjust the fuel +/- 25% I think. Do you feel with some more miles the rich condition may improve itself?
I know we both have been real pleased with the Lund tune so you probably wont be waiting to find out anyways. Just curious as to your thoughts on this.
MK4 #8900 - complete kit - Coyote, TKO600, IRS - Delivered 6/28/16 First Start 10/6/16 Go cart - 10/16/16 Build completed - 4/26/17 - 302 days to build my 302 CI Coyote Cobra - Registered and street legal 5/17/17
Build Thread http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-build-thread
PHIL 4:13 INSTAGRAM - @scottsrides
Hey Scott. Yeah, of course I remember those conversations. Those were related to the warnings Ford Performance was giving us that we'd burn up our engines running lean without a custom tune. Which turned out not to be the case. They were the ones who told us the PCM could learn and trim up to +/- 25%. Then they agreed it would throw codes if more than it could adjust for. Since mine is throwing rich codes, I can only assume it's richer than it can compensate for. Will learning change that? I don't know. My guess is it's too far out. But all academic as you said, because Lund is going to work on it. They have the order. We're going to use my same nGauge as used on the Roadster so hoping it can happen quickly. Hope to see some progress next week if the weather cooperates.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
I started a separate thread about experience with the Gen 3 Coyote, how it runs for other builders, tuning experience, etc. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...lease-weigh-in. As I guess I suspected, there are a number of projects underway but not many on the road yet. At least based on the response from that thread. I did hear from a couple builders, not detailed in the thread, who were having a very similar experience as mine. Another that wasn't that's in the thread. The CliffsNotes answer? A custom tune is likely mandatory for the Gen 3 Coyote. It's all good IMO because the previous generations also benefited from a custom tune and I was planning on it for this build too. Just didn't think it was going to be quite this necessary. Engine is running great now. Here's what I posted:
As of an hour or so ago, completed logging the third version of the custom calibration from Lund Racing. Word back from John Lund, Jr. who's doing my tune: "I'm happy with that data! Log looks great. Fueling is good. Wide open throttle is happy. Knock sensor is happy." Not only is he happy, so am I. Engine runs great. All the bad stuff I reported before is gone. Only about 20 total miles on the car, and Michigan is now totally on lockdown. So it's going to be a few weeks before I can drive it any more. But I'm pleased and excited how it's running and everything I hoped the Gen 3 Coyote would be. For my last data run, he requested a wide open throttle (WOT) hit as best I could. I have a secret place I go when that's necessary (I'm not telling...) but it's a few miles away and didn't want to venture out that far. We live out in the country a bit and there was basically no traffic on the 2-lane highway that goes by our neighborhood. So did find the bottom of the accelerator (gently...) while in second. The goal was 7,000 RPM. I saw the tach starting to swing by 7,000 and the speedo by 80, so let go. Lets just say it really got in a hurry. And LOUD. Amazing. Car was rock solid. That's not usually my thing and won't repeat (much) but gave me a healthy respect for what's there. That kind of action belongs on a strip or track. And BTW, zero DTC's with the two last rounds of calibration and logs. So bottom line all good and as far as I'm concerned, solved. The tune comes with a three month warranty. So I can log more data and have them review if I think it needs it or if I just want to do a followup after I've driven it more extensively. I'm planning to do that when we can start driving again.
I asked about the 3.5-inch tube and the MAF sensor. Both zero issues. Said the 3.5-inch tube isn't an issue since I have an open element air filter. Also said the MAF sensor has plenty of range for this mostly stock setup, and actually can be safely used for much more.
I wanted to make a video of my last logging run just to record what the car was like while driving, what the engine sounds like, etc. Didn't work out for several reasons. But did this gauge sweep while it was running in the driveway just before taking off. Not great but gives a little bit of an idea. https://youtu.be/mDcixNQ5rJM. Note the sliding windows are closed and I have the filler panels in the quarter window scoops. It's not real loud. But while driving and with higher RPM's is plenty loud. I expect we'll be using the same ear plugs as when in the Roadster.
So here's my conclusion on this subject FWIW: The Gen 1 and Gen 2 Coyotes could be successfully run with the stock tune from Ford Performance. Many did and still do. I ran the stock tune on my Gen 2 for about 1,000 miles and thought it ran OK. After several others found a custom tune made it even better, I had Lund Racing do a remote tune on it (similar process as this time around with the Gen 3) and it was markedly improved. But bottom line not mandatory. I now believe that story is probably different for the Gen 3. Clearly when the same 3.5-inch intake pieces as used on the Gen 1 and 2 (either Spectre or Treadstone Performance) are used on the Gen 3 the MAF calibration is off and must be adjusted. Otherwise it will run rich, throw codes, and all around not be happy. Like mine was. If you duplicate the 4-inch MAF tube, like Ford is now using for the Gen 3, meaning different parts than the previously used Spectre or Treadstone, or maybe the same Spectre part without the insert in the MAF adapter, you may be better and and may get by without a custom tune. But IMO, builders using the Gen 3 Coyote should expect it to need a custom tune and if you don't already have a tuner that knows these engines (specifically the crate version) then I highly recommend Lund Racing. It's around $500 if you already have the input and logging device (e.g. nGauge like in my video) or around $700 if you don't. But my suspicion, and I have it on good authority from Ford Performance engineering, is if you use anything other than the stock airbox, you should get a custom tune for optimal running and performance. I would plan on it.
Last edited by edwardb; 03-24-2020 at 05:14 PM.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
OK. This is it. Planning to end the build thread here. It's been quite a journey. Graduation thread posted here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...015#post404015.
Build 1: Mk3 Roadster #5125. Sold 11/08/2014. Build 2: Mk4 Roadster #7750. Sold 04/10/2017. Build Thread
Build 3: Mk4 Roadster 20th Anniversary #8674. Sold 09/07/2020. Build Thread and Video. Build 4: Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe #59. Gen 3 Coyote. Legal 03/04/2020. Build Thread and Video
Build 5: 35 Hot Rod Truck #138. LS3 and 4L65E auto. Rcvd 01/05/2021. Legal 04/20/2023. Build Thread. Sold 11/9/2023.
Another awesome build thread Paul. Glad the tune resolved all your problems. The first time I did a WOT on 2nd to get to 7200 I was a little apprehensive, but did it and sent the logs to Lund and they said "the throttle wasn't at 100%". Had to do it again and I stood on it the 2nd time. Let's just say I was glad I did it in 2nd gear and not 3rd. I agree, not the best thing to do on public streets but is quite a rush!
Congratulations! What a great thread you made, what an inspiration, but also an extended thank you for the support you've given to all of us when issues arise. Enjoy your car!
P100DHG’s Gen 3 65 Coupe #138 Build Thread - Order Date: Aug 2018 - Delivered: Feb 2019 -
First Start: May 2020 - First Drive: January 2021 - Instagram @SixtyFive_Daytona