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Current Massachusetts Registration Requirements for New Mk4 Build
Hello All,
I have been reading every thread I can find as I am planning a MK4 build and was getting ready to order a new kit. About 10 years ago I helped a friend with a donor build and the registration process went fairly smooth. Now that I am preparing to build my own, I have heard it is either a nightmare of no longer possible to build in Massachusetts. Here are the notes I have on the only ways to currently build in mass. If anyone has any information or has been through the process lately, can you please let me know if I am right with these assumptions or if there are other things that need to be considered.
- donor builds are still ok but you are required to have all of the same emission equipment.
- crate motors (Coyote, 427, any of FF's Blueprint motors) can only be used if you have a pre 1973 donor vehicle (any make/model?) that you have scrapped
I was planning a crate motor build with either a 427 or Coyote depending on various factors.
It is now sounding like the only way to build in Massachusetts is with a donor vehicle. Is this correct?
Thank you for any help you can provide.
Jay
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Here is what I found on another forum. Sounds like for a Coyote, there are two routes but both are donor routes (full emission or exempt) and for other crate motors, you need a 1974 or older registered and titled car to salvage. Does this mirror everyone's experiences lately?
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Basically, you have to buy a 1974 (not a '71) or older, pre-emissions, vehicle with an engine that falls into one of the below three categories relative to your engine size:
3 or 4 cylinder: Up to 3.0 liters
5 or 6 cylinder: 3.0- 5.0 liters (up to 302 cu in)
Small V8: 4.0-5.4 liters (up to 327)
Medium V8: 5.5-6.7 liters (up to 409)
Large V8: 6.8 liters or more (over 409)
This vehicle you buy has to have an engine that meets the minimum displacement requirements relative to the engine you're trying to exempt. It can be an engine that is in one of the larger categories...but must at least meet the minimum displacement requirements per the above, again relative to your engine displacement. So if you have a 302, you can use a vehicle that has an engine in the small, medium or large categories...but has to at least meet the "small" displacement category requirement.
This vehicle has to have been on the road (titled/registered) within the past 5 years in MA (can obviously be currently registered).
You don't have to register the scrap vehicle, that's not necessary...you just have to title it in your name so that there is a clear record of ownership when you scrap it.
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I just went through this and used a crusher car. Really wasn't that difficult to find one. Check craigslist everyday and jump on one right away if you find one in your price range. I don't think you can do a donor Coyote because they want you to use the complete drivetrain as removed from the Mustang. Could be a grey area here. The trans wont fit, but the rear IRS will. Also as far as I know FFR does not make cats for the Coyote. That could be a problem.
Mike
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Originally Posted by
michael everson
I just went through this and used a crusher car. Really wasn't that difficult to find one. Check craigslist everyday and jump on one right away if you find one in your price range. I don't think you can do a donor Coyote because they want you to use the complete drivetrain as removed from the Mustang. Could be a grey area here. The trans wont fit, but the rear IRS will. Also as far as I know FFR does not make cats for the Coyote. That could be a problem.
Mike
Mike,
Did you just use the full drivetrain from a mustang you crushed or did you use a crate motor, etc? I agree the Mustangs are easy to find but I really wanted to avoid a build using a 20-30 year old engine and would like to use a fresh motor which seems to be the problem in mass. I thought a Coyote could be used as FFR was promoting that heavily when I visited them but maybe not.
Jay
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I think you misunderstand the crusher rule. If you crush a 73 or older v8 car that was registered in MA for 1 year in the last 5 years, you get an emissions exemption no matter what drivetrain you use.
Mike
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Originally Posted by
michael everson
I think you misunderstand the crusher rule. If you crush a 73 or older v8 car that was registered in MA for 1 year in the last 5 years, you get an emissions exemption no matter what drivetrain you use.
Mike
You are absolutely correct Mike, I completely misunderstood the crusher rule. I talked to someone local that has done several cars over the last few years and he cleared everything up for me.
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Originally Posted by
Soulstice
You are absolutely correct Mike, I completely misunderstood the crusher rule. I talked to someone local that has done several cars over the last few years and he cleared everything up for me.
Jay - good talking to you today. Mike is very knowledgeable as well as I mentioned. You should be good to go, but let us know if you have any additional questions.
Good luck!
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There might be one other option, which I am going to try when I finish my 33. If you can register your build as a "custom vehicle" or a "street rod", those are exempt from emissions testing. Don't know if those terms will be accepted or not.
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Originally Posted by
duff33
There might be one other option, which I am going to try when I finish my 33. If you can register your build as a "custom vehicle" or a "street rod", those are exempt from emissions testing. Don't know if those terms will be accepted or not.
The way I understand the Massachusetts definitions (below) neither of these will work for the MK4 Roadster as it is a replica of 65' Shelby Cobra
Specially-Constructed Vehicle. A motor vehicle reconstructed or assembled by a non-manufacturer from new or used parts, the exterior of which does not replicate or resemble any other manufactured vehicle.
Street Rod. A motor vehicle for which the year of manufacture is prior to 1949, and which has been altered from the manufacturer's original design or has a body constructed from non-original materials.
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Originally Posted by
FFinisher
Jay - good talking to you today. Mike is very knowledgeable as well as I mentioned. You should be good to go, but let us know if you have any additional questions.
Good luck!
Ron - Thank You for all of your help with this. I definitely feel a lot more confident about my build after talking with you.
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Originally Posted by
michael everson
I think you misunderstand the crusher rule. If you crush a 73 or older v8 car that was registered in MA for 1 year in the last 5 years, you get an emissions exemption no matter what drivetrain you use.
Mike
Can someone help clarify for me something. I have found a vehicle that the person is willing to give me with the VIN. They car is very rusted. In reality do I really need the whole car or can I just have the cowl the VIN is off and go through the process that way? I'm asking b3ecauwse if I don;t have to take possession of the whole hunk of junk and then crush it I could literally register the VIN and then crush the cowl that the vin is attached to
Thoughts?
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No you can’t. The idea behind the crusher rule is that a 73’ or older vehicle is going to be “dirty” and the kit car will be cleaner emissions wise. My crusher was a Mercedes 280 SE 4.5and the scrap yard that picked up gave $200 for the scrap value. The scrap yard must give you an affidavit certifying it was scrapped and not broken up for parts. In reference to another post on this thread, FFR cars must be titled as replicas. Mine, registered in June, is titled as a type:replica, make:cobra, model:1965.both the registry and the mass state police insisted this was how kit cars must be titled. The whole process was actually not that difficult.
“Privateer”
289 USRRC Chassis #9188 p/u 9/11/2017 Go kart 3/18/2018, road legal 6/16/2018
Ford full roller 306 built by my son and me Holley Sniper EFI
TKO600 2015 IRS 3:55. 17” FFR Hallibrand replicas, Power steering
FFR Vintage instruments, Wipers and Heat/defrost
Lots of parts and advice from Mike Forte & Mark Reynolds (Breeze Automotive)
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 0 Likes
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I spoke to the MA State Salve yard and the state trooper told me he has done this a bunch of times and that I DO NOT need to go through all this. The whole reason they want you to do this is if you are going for emissions exemption and he said a modern COyote engine will pass with or without cats, so just build the car, get them to look it over with receipts and a work order, and they will give you the paper work to get the title. I was shocked, but not the first time I heard this working that way. I have had a lot of people telling me the other story, but I really think that is for carburated engines at this point.
Originally Posted by
chuckster
No you can’t. The idea behind the crusher rule is that a 73’ or older vehicle is going to be “dirty” and the kit car will be cleaner emissions wise. My crusher was a Mercedes 280 SE 4.5and the scrap yard that picked
up gave $200 for the scrap value. The scrap yard must give you an affidavit certifying it was scrapped and not broken up for parts. In reference to another post on this thread, FFR cars must be titled as replicas. Mine, registered in June, is titled as a type:replica, make:cobra, model:1965.both the registry and the mass state police insisted this was how kit cars must be titled. The whole process was actually not that difficult.
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The short answer is the trooper is wrong. MA passed a law saying no Crate engines. This includes a new Coyote. Its stupid but it is what it is. From a registration standpoint he is correct. Not for a sticker though.
Mike
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Senior Member
The best person to speak with on this topic is Paul Davis at Mass DEP. They run the emissions program. Paul and crew were very helpful with getting mine through the emissions process.
FFR #8833 289 FIA 3-link
1965 289, TKO600 from Forte's Parts Connection
Body and Paint by Mike's Auto Restoration
Picked up 3/5/2016, First start 4/22/2017, MA legal 7/11/2018
Build Thread
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...FIA-build-8833
"Insanity is contagious" - Joseph Heller
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Post Thanks / Like - 0 Thanks, 1 Likes
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Very detailed discussion. Thank you! Can you clarify a couple of "crusher" questions:
1) When purchasing a pre-74 car, is there a way to make sure that it was registered in MA in the last 5 years?
2) When buying a crusher car, do I need to wait for the new title to be mailed to me before I crush it or do I just need the original title with the transfer signatures from the previous owner?
3) This one a little silly. Having never tried to send a car to be crushed, where do I go for that? I'm assuming regular local junk yard is not it. Can you recommend one?
4) Does the crush yard come to pick up the car? Can I schedule it, like, for the day I come to get the title from the owner and pay? Do they charge for the pickup? Is it normal to ask to get crush value money from the crush yard people?
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You can call the DEP with the vin and they will tell you if it qualifies.
You do not need to retitle it.
Any junk yard will take the car and sign the paper work. Some might give you scrap value.
The last one I crushed was picked up by the junk yard after I paid for it. They picked it up for free.
One final note, don't tell the person your buying the car from that you are going to crush it. I lost out on
a couple of crushers because the owner didn't want it crushed. (your selling the car, what do you care what happens to it)
Mike
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Post Thanks / Like - 1 Thanks, 1 Likes
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Thank you for super helpful answers. The fog is starting to lift. As a complete newbie, I am trying to navigate this purchasing and registration process and keep coming up with questions. Originally, I wanted to go to BassPro @ Legacy Thursday drive in and pester people in person but the even keeps getting postponed. The next one is "tenatively" in early July..
1) Is it possible to register a car with an engine built entirely from scratch with aftermarket parts, including the block? Would this type of engine be treated any different than, say, a crate engine?
2) Can any of MA registration/emission steps be done before kit is delivered(or built)?
3) If one wanted to use cats instead of jpipes, will this impact emissions process? Will I be able to get emissions exception?
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[QUOTE=steven yampolsky;416327]Thank you for super helpful answers. The fog is starting to lift. As a complete newbie, I am trying to navigate this purchasing and registration process and keep coming up with questions. Originally, I wanted to go to BassPro @ Legacy Thursday drive in and pester people in person but the even keeps getting postponed. The next one is "tenatively" in early July..
1) Is it possible to register a car with an engine built entirely from scratch with aftermarket parts, including the block? Would this type of engine be treated any different than, say, a crate engine?
Steven, I bought a pre-1974 block, got approval build from DEP, MAC, and SP. It's 1969 351w. You cannot buy a new bare block unless you crush a car.
'33 Hot Rod Gen 2 Roadster #1209, 33 Grill, 3-Link Rear Suspension, Leather Roadster Seats, Electric Assist Steering, Rear Exhaust, 2 Piece FFR Bonneville Wheels (18x9/20x11) Mickey Thompson Street Comp Tires (255/45/R18 and 305/35/R20), '69 Ford 351w (Stroked to 393. All Forged), AOD, 8.8 31 Spline Rear with Trac-Lok, QA1 PromaStars (Front 9" 220lb/Rear 12" 200lb Springs).
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Originally Posted by
shmelty
Steven, I bought a pre-1974 block, got approval build from DEP, MAC, and SP. It's 1969 351w. You cannot buy a new bare block unless you crush a car.
Wow! I didn't know this was possible. How do I go about finding/bying a block such that it would pass?
P.S. Thank you for not making fun of the utter newbie. I've never done anything beyond brake bads/disks, radiator swaps and obligatory oil changes.
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Senior Member
I bought my 1965 289 block from Mike Forte. While he was doing machining and assembly, I got the casting number pre-cleared by Paul Davis. Make sure you keep good documentation if you go this route, since MSP will be making sure there are no stolen parts as part of the VIN assignment.
I strongly recommend reading up on all the process documentation from the RMV so that you understand everything required.
FFR #8833 289 FIA 3-link
1965 289, TKO600 from Forte's Parts Connection
Body and Paint by Mike's Auto Restoration
Picked up 3/5/2016, First start 4/22/2017, MA legal 7/11/2018
Build Thread
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...FIA-build-8833
"Insanity is contagious" - Joseph Heller