Cliff's 33 Hot Rod Build in Virginia

[House Money]

If there is one thing I've learned from reading these threads is don't buy an accessory drive system until you install the engine. Looks real tight. I'm waiting to order a 33 in a few months with an LS3 TKO600. Looking good so far. Keep up the good work.

Mastertech5: I'm also using an LS3 in my truck build and I was surprised at how little room there was for an accessory drive, and I consider the LS as a rather compact engine. What I ended up using was the Holley LS accessory drive system, I ordered P/N 20-185BK as the black fit my theme better. What I like about this system: no extra brackets, everything mounts to their water pump housing, and that housing has a provision for the LS steam line. Another plus for me since I not running a hood or side covers is the water pump has two options for routing the heater hoses, straight out like any other LS water pump, or down as I used. It helped to kind of hide the heater hoses IMO. One thing to be aware of: While this system comes with a power steering pump and related parts, there is no way the P/S would fit in the '33/'35 chassis - other FFR models I can't speak too. I wish it was offered without the P/S, but even with it it was a little cheaper than some other systems I looked at, now if I could only sell those P/S parts I didn't use!
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[e36m3]

Hi Cliff,

A while back I was doing some searching on body work on the Factory Five forums and I cut and pasted some body work info into a Word doc. Here is what I saved. I wish I could find the thread this info came from. I also watched a bunch of car painting videos on Eastwood too. No guarantees on the info below. Hopefully it helps a little. I still putting my car together so body work and painting is a ways in the future for me.

VERY IMPORTANT! Any leftover wax can contaminate fillers, primer or paint and lead to failure. This needs to be done before any sanding or grinding otherwise the wax is just getting embedded into the gelcoat or fiberglass. I washed it twice using PPG MX190 Cleaner & Degreaser, first with a soaked rag then with a green Scotchbrite. I wiped it down after the washes to pick up the dissolved wax and solvent using heavy paper shop towels like you can get in a box from Lowes or Home Depot. After the solvent wash it got cleaned again using Comet cleanser, Scotchbrite and hot water.

These cars are full of areas where the gel coat is mixed in with the glass and resin and other areas full of air bubbles. Don't worry about them all because they are not ALL a problem. Focus on the seam... Examine the seam and lay tape along the area that you suspect needs to be ground out and DO NOT grind past the tape line. The tape will act as a guide.

Use Dremel bit to grind out gelcoat filled pin holes, be careful not to go too far into panel.
Use bondo with short strand fiberglass to fill in deep areas, Napa body pro mini fibre or Evercoat everglass. Something else that I've been meaning to add as useful info for those that will be tackling their own bodywork. Make sure to do a very thorough investigation of every body seam. You'll notice opaque areas along the seams after you've sanded the area flat. I first started with a small wire brush and pic but could see right away that this area needed a far more aggressive approach. So I ended up going at the seams with my Dremel and a small carbide tip. It was shocking to see how many of those areas that I thought were solid from using the pic and brush simply popped right off with a touch of the Dremel. I found some nasty craters, especially on the lower post of my hard top. Better to find this stuff now and fix it than have one pop after paint.

Following the cleaning I started knocking down the flash at parting lines using a DA with 80 grit.

Next I blocked the body with 150 using a combination of flexible boards I got from Eastwood a few years ago. You can adjust their rigidity by adding or removing the steel rods.
The idea is to use as long a block as the panel will allow and work following the contours. Use a smaller and/or more flexible block on the more complex curves. Oh, and don’t forget the foam pool noodle! They work great for working on a tight inside radius. Here it is all blocked and scuffed.
From here it goes outside and gets blown off (the dust just seems to never end!) then gets washed down with degreaser again. I followed that up with another wash using lacquer thinner. Time for evercoat Rage Gold!

A couple of tips I'll pass on that I learned when I did my car. Most of the inexpensive primer guns come with a 1.8mm tip which is a bit small for Featherfill and Slick Sand 9high build primers). Fluid tips for these inexpensive guns are either unavailable or cost nearly as much as the guns themselves. I simply opened mine up to about 2.1mm (.0826") by drilling it with a #45 bit (.0820"). The 1.8 needle still seats just fine and it works well to deliver additional material smoothly.

Speaking of delivering material smoothly, we all know that the smoother the surface the less sanding is required. What I do is make the first couple of passes with Featherfill or Slick Sand mixed per specs to get the high build then for the final coat add 5-10% fast reducer or acetone. It really helps it flow and lay down slick greatly reducing the amount of sanding to make it flat. First coat goes down light, let it flash over, then wetter coats, that should eliminate the runs.

To close the pinholes, I used a Q-tip soaked in the remaining FFG2 (in the gun) and forced some into each hole. Then went back with another dab to bring it just above the surface.
The body now has a good 4-5 coats on the seams and 4 coats total on the main panels. This is the second round of primer application after spraying a 1/2 gallon a few weeks ago and then block sanding that out to 180. Blocked with 180, then will hit this with a black guide coat...then it is time to block sand it out to 320.

I noticed you are hanging all your panels. When mine was sprayed, we painted the underside of the hood and trunk the night before then masked them off. This allowed the painter to lay them flat on sawhorses(way less chance of a run). Also we could mask of the hood scoop and latch openings, etc. to stop overspray from side to side.

Heavy metallics like silvers will be more prone to show a difference in the "grain" if they are not done in the same orientation as the adjacent body panel.

Thanks,

Andy

[HVACMAN]

If there is one thing I've learned from reading these threads is don't buy an accessory drive system until you install the engine. Looks real tight. I'm waiting to order a 33 in a few months with an LS3 TKO600. Looking good so far. Keep up the good work.

I ordered my front drive system from CVF Racing. Good quality and less expensive than Holley and others. It uses an eight ribbed belt system for less slippage. Just another option.
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[Chris C]

If you didn't use the power steering pump, what belt did you use? Was it as simple as just not installing the pump? I'm planning a LS3 in a gen1 and have been looking at these.

[sethmark]

Can’t speak for the fancy brackets, but I took a truck alternator bracket, cut it in half, polish the edges and powder coated it. It’s the only accessory I’m currently running. If it’s some point I add air conditioning, and the evaporator is already under dash and the condenser in front of the grill, I will use an electric pump.

[HVACMAN]

If you didn't use the power steering pump, what belt did you use? Was it as simple as just not installing the pump? I'm planning a LS3 in a gen1 and have been looking at these.

You can buy with p/s pump or without. The kit includes an eight rib belt.

[House Money]

If you didn't use the power steering pump, what belt did you use? Was it as simple as just not installing the pump? I'm planning a LS3 in a gen1 and have been looking at these.

Not sure which accessory drive system you are asking about, I installed the Holley and yes I just left the P/S components off, the belt I found that fit was a Gates # K060651.

Gary

[Chris C]

Not sure which accessory drive system you are asking about, I installed the Holley and yes I just left the P/S components off, the belt I found that fit was a Gates # K060651.

Gary

Hi Gary,
It was yours I was asking about. So no bolt or spacer changes? I'm down the road in Kirkland btw. Work for Boeing too.

[House Money]

Hi Gary,
It was yours I was asking about. So no bolt or spacer changes? I'm down the road in Kirkland btw. Work for Boeing too.

Chris, I'm going to send you a PM - I've sort of hi-lacked this thread - sorry about that Cliff!!

[colsen23153]

Well it didn't take long before this would happen. Tow home.jpg I went to get a haircut and after parking I notices something wasn't right when I walked around the car. Trans leak 1.jpg What would anybody think after seeing that?

I called for a tow and while waiting checked all my levels and they were ok. It looked like trans fluid and it only leaked with the engine running. Because it's so low I couldn't see much. I was thinking one of my cooling lines came loose.

After getting it back in the gurage and jacked up. It became obvious where the leak was coming from. It's a 700R and I am using a speedometer that uses GPS. So I got what I thought was a good plug for where the cable would come from. It must have let go a short distance before I turned into the parking lot. Another mile or two and it would have been dry. Easy fix, ordered the correct plug and I'll have it in a few days. All I can do is count my blessings that it turned out this way rather then the other.

This was my second shake down ride. Check everything, even if you don't think anything strange will happen.

I used ICT part # 551961 from eBay (no shipping) to replace the part I had in it. It was a rubber disk sandwiched between metal plates that you screw together to expand the rubber.

[j33ptj]

Wow,... close call!!

[ej95Cobra]

Great watching your build, it's often these little things that surprise us. You should come out to Cars & Coffee at Regency Square Mall. I get out there 4 - 5 times a year, great to see the mix of cars. I've seen 2 other F5 Hot Rods there.

[sethmark]

Good job with the heads up ball. Glad you notice before something bad. Break in miles are so important.

[colsen23153]

Great watching your build, it's often these little things that surprise us. You should come out to Cars & Coffee at Regency Square Mall. I get out there 4 - 5 times a year, great to see the mix of cars. I've seen 2 other F5 Hot Rods there.

I'll have to check them out. Do you have a schedule? When is the next one?

[ej95Cobra]

Here's a link to the Cars and Coffee Richmond site. Happens every other Saturday morning 8 - 10 am. Next one is Sept 5.

http://carsandcoffeerichmond.com/

Great spot to see several hundred cars of all types and talk to other car minded people.

[colsen23153]

Well it looks like it's almost been 2 years since my last post. Do I still have the '33? Am I working on it? Yes and yes. A lot of things happened along the way until now. My health for one. I had back problems and I decided I needed to get that fixed if I wanted to complete the build on the car. I can't believe what I had to do to get that fixed. I received about 6 to 8 shots in my back that did absolutely nothing for my pain. Had a operation by a neurosurgeon that complicated the situation. Then fell backwards on my right hip and fixed the problem. Would you believe a bone chip pressing on the nerve that broke off in the fall. I should have fallen sooner .

Like some of you I wasn't satisfied with the way the car was driving. I was having problems with the shifter and getting about 8 mpg on the road. The motor that came from BluePrint was more for the drags then to cruse the road. Very touchy on the throttle. So I started replacing some parts to get it the way I wanted. First I replaced the shifter for a B&M ratchet shifter. That was a big difference. Next I got a MSD HyperSpark distributer and turned on the timing from the Sniper. I wasn't happy at first because of the built in timing graph. I had to change that and built my own from scratch. That took a long time because I was afraid of messing up the timing and rune the engine. So I took it slow and added a little timing at a time. I'm still not done with that but it now drives much better. Last check I'm getting about 13mpg.

Well, a lot of other thing have happened with the build that you can't see from the outside. I will describe those changes when I have a chance. Until then ... Cliff

[Tampa33Build]

I had the same issue with the Blueprint 400, was getting only 7-8 miles to a gallon. Changed the distributor to a Holley HyperSpark distributor to allow the Sniper controlled timing. Last check was 12.8 MPG, big improvement. Do not understand why an engine ordered with EFI comes with a distributor that cannot be set to have timing controlled by the EFI.
My current issue is at the lower RPM there is some hesitation, acts like the timing is not being set correct. Most likely same issue needs timing graph changed.
Only wish I had went with a Boyd tank, filling the FFR supplied tank takes way to long.

[colsen23153]

I brought my car into a repair shop to be inspected and the mechanic said I had a brake fluid leak which appears to be coming from the bottom edge of the reservoir. I had noticed this about a year ago and asked FFR to send me another one. Now I have the same problem so there must be more to this. I was thinking that the reservoir had a weld on the bottom of it that was leaking. I took out the "old" one and looked it over closely. What I discovered was that the reservoir is actually made up of two cylinder cups. Look into the reservoir and you can see the top of the smaller cup at the bottom of the outside larger cup. They must be pressed together to form the reservoir. So how was the brake fluid getting past the top of the inner cup between the two cups. Only thing that could cause that is pressure.

Well the cap of the reservoir has a hole in it so any pressure in the cup should escape through the hole in the cap. That's the way it should have worked. As the fluid heated up in the lines and brake cylinder it would expand causing the the pressure buildup. Also if the fluid level was too much it wouldn't give it enough space to expand. Well I took a vacuum pump and connected it to the bottom of the old reservoir and pumped it up. I expected it to not hold any vacuum. It reached 10 inches and held it there for over a few minutes. That should have not happened according to my thinking. I tried to blow through the hole in the cap and nothing. I drilled a very small hole into it and still couldn't get any air through it. It wasn't until I got the black gasket out of the cap that it worked. I couldn't find any hole in the gasket so I put one in it. So that should take care of the leaking reservoir. Just don't overfill it and don't over tighten the cap.

I have been chasing my tail trying to solve a random problem with my steering where it will slightly pull to one side or the other. The "crowned road" effect. I had the alignment double checked and it was still good. Now, with what I just explained above, I was wondering if that might be causing the problem. With enough pressure I had in the reservoir to cause the fluid to pass between the two cups, was it possible that it was causing excessive pressure in the brake system causing the calipers to not release completely, causing the pulling on the rotor on a wheel?

I will test drive it after I return from the 4th of July week end.

[colsen23153]

Months ago I was under my car installing a shifter and I was having a problem with the linkage passing on the left side of the transmission. There was a plug there with a vacuum switch in the way. I ordered from BluePrint the engine and transmission combo so I didn't know all that I had. A call to TCI and I found out it was for the converter lockup. Wow, something extra that I didn't know that I had. I asked how to hook it up and it was as simple as adding a switch and a vacuum line. I did all that and it worked nicely. It reduced the rpm in 4th gear by about 500 to 700 rpm. Better fuel economy, GREAT! There was one drawback. I had to turn the switch on and off to use it and prevent the lugging when I reduced the speed.

I found out there are controllers available that would control the turning on and off of the lockup. Problem was that most of them used the speedometer cable that comes out the side of the transmission. As you know there isn't room for that in our cars. So I thought about using the GPS that goes to the speedometer. The AutoMeter speedometer controller uses pulses from the GPS unit to tell how fast you were going. And with the way you had to "calibrate" it was not a way I wanted to go. I fly Quad copters that use GPS to know where it's going. I had a few GPS units hanging around. So I decided to use them and a computer module and a relay to determine the speed and to turn on and off the converter lockup with the relay in series with the switch. I have a background in electronics, computer repair and 20 years of computer programming before I retried. I programmed my control unit to turn on the lockup at 45 mph and turn it off when the speed dropped below 40 mph. Works like a charm. Now I don't have to worry about when to turn the lockup on and off. It feels like another gear in the transmission. I liked the way it worked out and giving me a little bit better fuel millage.

I was thinking that other people would be in the same boat as I was in and had a need for one of these controllers. I might build a few and sell them on Ebay. Well I checked in Summitracing.com and JEGS.com and they sell something that is similar, using a pressure gauge to determine it's in 4th gear and all that. I don't know if I would sell them. I might make a couple and see if anyone here would like to try it out and give me feed back on what they thought about it. Sort of a test group. I'll see.

[FF33rod]

I brought my car into a repair shop to be inspected and the mechanic said I had a brake fluid leak which appears to be coming from the bottom edge of the reservoir. I had noticed this about a year ago and asked FFR to send me another one. Now I have the same problem so there must be more to this. I was thinking that the reservoir had a weld on the bottom of it that was leaking. I took out the "old" one and looked it over closely. What I discovered was that the reservoir is actually made up of two cylinder cups. Look into the reservoir and you can see the top of the smaller cup at the bottom of the outside larger cup. They must be pressed together to form the reservoir. So how was the brake fluid getting past the top of the inner cup between the two cups. Only thing that could cause that is pressure.

Well the cap of the reservoir has a hole in it so any pressure in the cup should escape through the hole in the cap. That's the way it should have worked. As the fluid heated up in the lines and brake cylinder it would expand causing the the pressure buildup. Also if the fluid level was too much it wouldn't give it enough space to expand. Well I took a vacuum pump and connected it to the bottom of the old reservoir and pumped it up. I expected it to not hold any vacuum. It reached 10 inches and held it there for over a few minutes. That should have not happened according to my thinking. I tried to blow through the hole in the cap and nothing. I drilled a very small hole into it and still couldn't get any air through it. It wasn't until I got the black gasket out of the cap that it worked. I couldn't find any hole in the gasket so I put one in it. So that should take care of the leaking reservoir. Just don't overfill it and don't over tighten the cap.

I have been chasing my tail trying to solve a random problem with my steering where it will slightly pull to one side or the other. The "crowned road" effect. I had the alignment double checked and it was still good. Now, with what I just explained above, I was wondering if that might be causing the problem. With enough pressure I had in the reservoir to cause the fluid to pass between the two cups, was it possible that it was causing excessive pressure in the brake system causing the calipers to not release completely, causing the pulling on the rotor on a wheel?

I will test drive it after I return from the 4th of July week end.

Hmmm. I came to a different conclusion about the reservoir but am by no means claiming to be right. My reservoir was not leaking but as you noted, I noted that the cap of the reservoir had a hole while the black "gasket" underneath did not. I also noted that the gasket has some folds in it making it quite flexible. I believe this is all as intended and have noted the following. First, most brake fluid is hygroscopic meaning it absorbs moisture from the air. If it does the properties are altered which is a problem. So, I assume this is why the black gasket has no hole. However, the folds in the gasket make it flexible allowing the space in the reservoir to change according to needs. In fact, I had a leak in one of the rear lines and when checking the reservoir noted that the gasket was sucked in a little so I had to pry it off (with a pop) and top up the fluid. The hole in the very top, of course, is what allows the gasket to do its "thing".

Steve

[colsen23153]

Hmmm. I came to a different conclusion about the reservoir but am by no means claiming to be right. My reservoir was not leaking but as you noted, I noted that the cap of the reservoir had a hole while the black "gasket" underneath did not. I also noted that the gasket has some folds in it making it quite flexible. I believe this is all as intended and have noted the following. First, most brake fluid is hygroscopic meaning it absorbs moisture from the air. If it does the properties are altered which is a problem. So, I assume this is why the black gasket has no hole. However, the folds in the gasket make it flexible allowing the space in the reservoir to change according to needs. In fact, I had a leak in one of the rear lines and when checking the reservoir noted that the gasket was sucked in a little so I had to pry it off (with a pop) and top up the fluid. The hole in the very top, of course, is what allows the gasket to do its "thing".

Steve

Thank you Steve for that information. I was looking for a fast fix to the problem and overlooked the fact about the brake fluid being hygroscopic. With that I agree the black gasket should not have a hole in it letting air in or out. I switched my gasket with the radiator overflow container.

So it must be caused from me overfilling the reservoir. It is now down to 1/2 full so that should not be the problem. I am still going to check the front brake pads and rotors for excessive wear. Time will tell.

[colsen23153]

In the new instructions for the electric windows they have added a new piece. See below. This piece is to guide the right side of the window so it exits the slot in the door for it. I am having trouble mounting that new piece. I had to cut away on the inside of the door and I'm thinking, before I do any further cutting, I should see how other people are dealing with this new piece. Post pictures if you can. Thanks ...Cliff

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[FF33rod]

Copying my answer on the Facebook group....

This piece is not new and your problem is not new, had the same issue on the driver's side. There are so many things that come into play - position of the hard top front to back, door trimming, symmetry of the body side to side, even the internal door structure.... Passenger side was no problem but the driver's side took forever.

To make a long story short - check the position of the roof, if you can move it back a little. You can grind away some of the thickness of the door on the inside where that piece is hitting. I also ground the corner of the piece itself off at the top ( the window needs support left/right not back/forward really. AND, lastly, I actually had to push the door forward by trimming more off the front and glassing back some material at the rear... good luck, not one of the more fun things to sort. Reference post 180 of my build thread on the forum (SN 1104)

Steve

[colsen23153]

I have been putting some miles on the '33 and I have come up with a situation that I don't like. When I'm out on the interstate or driving on the back roads when a truck passes in the other direction, the front of my hood comes up a bit and some times just flutters. I have stopped a few times to make sure I didn't loose some hardware. I think the problem is the hinge is not adjusted correctly.
Hood Hinge.JPG
How do I adjust these so I don't have this situation any more? I have an idea but would appreciate some input as to the propper way to adjust it.

Thanks,
Cliff

[colsen23153]

How has my transmission converter lock up been going.
As I said it works great. I had it on a bread board for a while then put all the components on a PC board and even printed a 3D case for it. Everything was working great until it wasn't working any more. I found out the CPU had burned up causing the power regulator to burn up also. I built another on a bread board again. This time I changed a few things. It's been working ever since. I redesigned the circuit to just be the bare minimum required to work. Now I'm putting that circuit on a PC board and see how long this one lasts. I'll let you know how that worked out.

Cliff