Do you really need an emergency brake if....

[schukar]

I've been thinking about emergency brakes and how seldom they are used. I've driven about a million miles and never used one. If you were to use a dual master cylinder so that front and rear brakes are on separate circuits, then both circuits would have to fail simultaneously for there to be a real problem. That seems like a very remote possibility, indeed!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I've been thinking about emergency brakes and how seldom they are used. I've driven about a million miles and never used one. If you were to use a dual master cylinder so that front and rear brakes are on separate circuits, then both circuits would have to fail simultaneously for there to be a real problem. That seems like a very remote possibility, indeed!

They are absolutely necessary if you have a manual transmission and park on a hill.

[NAZ]

You don't NEED an "emergency" brake in a stick to park but you will want some sort of "parking" brake. If you're dealing with a build that makes running a mechanical parking brake a challenge you can always use a hydraulic block valve in your front or rear line like this one I used: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...Lock,1970.html

Lot's of fixed wing aircraft use a similar device for a parking brake. Simply push on the brake pedal and hold, push in the spring loaded knob on the block valve and hold while releasing the brake pedal. The block valve prevents the brake fluid from returning to the M/C and maintains pressure on the brakes to hold the car (or airplane) from rolling. Simply push the brake pedal a bit harder than when you set it and the spring loaded handle will return to the open position allow brake fluid to return to the M/C when the pedal is released. Simple, safe, and inexpensive. I have one on my race car for those times you park in a pit area that's on a slope. You can also use it to hold the car when trailering.

[GoDadGo]

Many states require having a Parking or Emergency Brake and are included in the inspection requirements.
Other states require a white reverse light but mine does not since the original Cobras didn't have them back in 1965.
On the same note, I'd imagine an 818 or GTM would require a reverse light where I live since those cars are NOT replicas.
Check the regulations of your state to make sure you aren't painting yourself into an Emergency Brake Corner.

Good Luck & Happy Wrenching!

[Ajzride]

I changed out my rear brakes for 2006 VW Passat calipers because they have an integrated electric parking brake. Now I have emergency / parking brake and no cables running around and no handle in the compartment. You can also get a stand-alone electric brake caliper from a Tesla (more expensive than Passat calipers)

[schukar]

You don't NEED an "emergency" brake in a stick to park but you will want some sort of "parking" brake. If you're dealing with a build that makes running a mechanical parking brake a challenge you can always use a hydraulic block valve in your front or rear line like this one I used: https://www.speedwaymotors.com/Speed...Lock,1970.html

Lot's of fixed wing aircraft use a similar device for a parking brake. Simply push on the brake pedal and hold, push in the spring loaded knob on the block valve and hold while releasing the brake pedal. The block valve prevents the brake fluid from returning to the M/C and maintains pressure on the brakes to hold the car (or airplane) from rolling. Simply push the brake pedal a bit harder than when you set it and the spring loaded handle will return to the open position allow brake fluid to return to the M/C when the pedal is released. Simple, safe, and inexpensive. I have one on my race car for those times you park in a pit area that's on a slope. You can also use it to hold the car when trailering.

That sounds like a great idea! I didn't know such a thing existed.

Is it still a good idea to have dual master cylinders?

[JohnK]

If you're installing a parking brake because your state requires it, look into what the exact requirements are in your state. I've no doubt that NAZ's proposed solution works perfectly well, but it would not be considered a "legal" parking brake in CA, for example.

http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/fa...ctionNum=26451

ARTICLE 2. Operation of Brakes [26450 - 26458.5]

( Article 2 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

26451.

The parking brake system of every motor vehicle shall comply with the following requirements:
(a) The parking brake shall be adequate to hold the vehicle or combination of vehicles stationary on any grade on which it is operated under all conditions of loading on a surface free from snow, ice or loose material. In any event the parking brake shall be capable of locking the braked wheels to the limit of traction.
(b) The parking brake shall be applied either by the driver’s muscular efforts, by spring action, or by other energy which is isolated and used exclusively for the operation of the parking brake or the combination parking brake and emergency stopping system.
(c) The parking brake shall be held in the applied position solely by mechanical means.

[RBachman]

I changed out my rear brakes for 2006 VW Passat calipers because they have an integrated electric parking brake. Now I have emergency / parking brake and no cables running around and no handle in the compartment. You can also get a stand-alone electric brake caliper from a Tesla (more expensive than Passat calipers)

Wilwood also has electric parking brakes/E-brake calipers now. I used an E-Stopp rather than dealing with the provided brake handle and cable routing because the Wilwood wasn't available when I built it.

[RBachman]

That sounds like a great idea! I didn't know such a thing existed.

Is it still a good idea to have dual master cylinders?

Yes. The reason there are two "circuits" is redundancy. Putting both, front and rear, on the same reservoir meets the legal requirements. However, this configuration also allows a significant weak-link that can affect the entire system. With the small reservoirs provided by FFR, there really isn't that much brake fluid available should one or the other circuit begin to leak. With dual reservoirs you have complete redundancy and two non-dependent brake systems.

I got a 3-cell reservoir from Forte's Parts. This allows both brake circuits and the hydraulic clutch to be in one tight location, with all 3 using the same fluid. It also allows more fluid than the FFR single reservoir approach.

[67 Car Guy]

I plan to use the Wilwood Dual Master Cylinder Brake Pedal Assemblies. I happen to have one from a previous car project, but Summit still seems to stock a number of variations of it (such as Part Number: WIL-340-13832; $126 from Summit). I think this is perfect for the 818 because:

a) it uses two completely separate single piston master cylinders, so that you could take a hammer to one, and the other has it's own linkage and reservoir
b) you can use two different piston sizes in the two master cylinders to balance pressure from and rear without the hokey "pressure regulating valve" in one of the lines
c) You can also "fine tune" pressure front/rear by simply turning a screw which moves the pivot point a little to the left or right which puts more of the pedal force on the right or left master cylinder.

I love it because it's a super flexible system and the parts are not too expensive. I think the master cylinders were like $60 brand new. I recall I bought a few and experimented.
Anyone else use this setup on an 8187?

[NAZ]

That sounds like a great idea! I didn't know such a thing existed.

Is it still a good idea to have dual master cylinders?

Yes, it most definitely is a good idea to use a dual braking system and depending on your state's requirements, may be mandatory. Dual braking systems have been mandate by the Feds since 1968 (FMVS Standard 105-68). I'm old enough to have owed plenty of cars that had a single master cylinder to operate all four brakes. They worked good until they don't and then you will have several seconds of sheer terror as you push the pedal to the floor and nothing happens. I've experienced a catastrophic failure in one of these older cars and survived blowing through a T intersection to a highway and nearly T-boned by two 18-wheelers crossing in opposite directions. I came to a stop in the ditch on the other side of the road. The "emergency" brake had little effect. So believe me, you really should have a dual brake system no matter what your state's requirement.

[Ajzride]

Back to the question of "do you need an emergency/parking brake?"

The answer is yes if you are going to register your car for street use in any state that does an inspection. It's a DOT requirement, and it must be a mechanically separate system from your primary brake system, so the hydraulic lock will not qualify. I'm sure some people have gotten lucky with a really lax inspector, but you can't bank on that.

[NAZ]

Back to the question of "do you need an emergency/parking brake?"

The answer is yes if you are going to register your car for street use in any state that does an inspection. It's a DOT requirement, and it must be a mechanically separate system from your primary brake system, so the hydraulic lock will not qualify. I'm sure some people have gotten lucky with a really lax inspector, but you can't bank on that.

That may be true for "most" states, perhaps all states except AZ. It's not a matter of being lucky, here in the free state of AZ you can even license ATVs and side by sides and legally run them on the street. My ATVs say right on them not for highway use and the tires on these vehicles are not DOT approved. It's best to know your state's requirements rather than assume. Assuming that Fed DOT applies in every state may not be accurate. Complying with Fed DOT won't hurt, and perhaps it's even a good idea but don't assume it's always required.

[AZPete]

I know about hydraulic locks and electric parking brakes, but in my roadster and in my 818 I installed the regular mechanical parking brake with a lever handle, with reason: I stop at an uphill traffic light, in neutral, my foot on the brake keeps my car from rolling back. Another car stops close behind me. Light turns green. Clutch in, shift into 1st gear, off brake . . . I roll back and bump the car behind me before I can accelerate. OUCH. With a hand brake this can be avoided. I think all stick shift cars should have a convenient hand brake - my Porsche 911 does.

[flynntuna]

Probably the only good thing about having sasquatch feet is that on a hill I can put my big toe on the brake and my little toe on the gas . So when on a hill I can hold the brake with the big toe and press the gas by rotating my foot. Heal and toeing with the side of my foot instead of my heal.