40 Watt Garage & #9365

[Fixit]

Re-assembly is complete.
Got a message from Jeff, all the hinged things are back on, side-pipes installed, and it's ready for delivery! He rolled it out for a few quick pics...

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[PeteMeindl]

wow! That looks fantastic! Congrats, John.

[GoDadGo]

Nice, Very Nice!

[Fixit]

Picked up #9365 from the House of Kleiner on Tuesday morning.
Jeff had it "staged" in front of the house so when I crested the hill leading to his place there was this gorgeous thing sittin' in front of the house.

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Took care of some business, did some bench racing, visited his neighbor (with a beautiful '65 Chevelle), got the car loaded up and headed back to Aurora IL for the night.
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The trip back to Mpls was uneventful, other than the Wisconsin State Patrol having a fund-raiser about every 15 miles on I-90/94 the whole way... Got it home, unloaded, and am now just chillin' with a chilled one!

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[HotrodMike]

That is some stellar work, love the body and color. How long did it take to do this one?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Nice to see it back home John; you have built a great car and it was a pleasure to work with you! As I told ya', since I get to see them "without their clothes" the truth gets revealed and yours is outstanding...well thought out and well executed.

...How long did it take to do this one?

Hard to say Mike. This was kind of an on again, off again one. Because of trailer availability and his work travel schedule John brought it early even though he understood that I wasn't going to get to work on it right away (something that others have tended to forget when I've allowed them to bring cars at their convenience) so I didn't really begin in earnest until after New Years. After it was prepped, primed and ready for paint we got a cold snap with single digit temps so it went on hold for about 2 weeks---I can put plenty of heat into my paint room but with the 12,000CFM exhaust fan taking it out along with the paint overspray the 2 furnaces can't keep up once the outside temperature drops below about 20 degrees. I think it actually got paint mid February and then it just sat around looking pretty for a month or so since John planned to pick it up during a family trip that brought him 2/3 of the way here last week.

Hopefully the weather in Frostbite Falls will let you start rolling up some more miles soon---but maybe you can try to keep it out of the Minnesota mud, at least for a week or two

Jeff

[Fixit]

but maybe you can try to keep it out of the Minnesota mud

Hey... you got a free lesson in MN geology, and something other than Mary Kay dust to sweep up!
(A little back-story here)
Shortly after go-kart and body on/legal/drive it stage, my street came due for sewer replacement. Literally one day I had blacktop, the next it was dirt. Then 6 months of excavating, backfill, excavating, backfill, repeat... as they made their way down the street. Each evening they'd berm up dirt & rock at the driveways so we could get in/out. Then Ma Nature decides to go off her meds through most of the project and decides to rain an inch every other day. We lived in a bog for months.
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And, the last 1.5 miles to my cabin is on a dirt/gravel road... with multiple trips each day when there, the crud adds up.
Well, a little goo isn't going to stop me, and we racked up 4500 miles until I delivered the car to Jeff. (I probably coulda hosed it off better...)

I'd like to publicly thank Jeff for an incredible job.
He was more than accommodating with my delivery & pickup needs, and a pleasure to work with. The job came in only slightly over agreed price - due to minor hardware expenses. (Slightly was less than $50).

[jiriza84641]

Color looks, great, JK did a stellar job once again. Till the end of summer I wait.

[Fixit]

Since it's been rainy & crappy up here in "Frostbite Falls"... I got to it and mounted the rear bumper and finished the rear splashguard/wheelhouse pieces today.

The rear bumper was a non-event. Just drilled out the supplied holes to 7/16", cut new all-thread a bit longer, and bolted it on.

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[Fixit]

Now that the body is in it's final & locked down position, I could finish the rear wheelhouse splashguards I made.

Some cardstock templates were cut/fitted, then transferred to some 1/8" ABS sheetstock. Once mounted the gaps were filled with black silicone sealant. This should keep the water/crud/muck from being flung up into the underdoor/rocker area.

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[RJD]

Beautiful. Congratulations!

[Fixit]

I was never too pleased with the FFR supplied screens for the brake ducts. One look at my house gutters and hmm.... not going on the car.

I bought a 36x36 sheet of stainless screen, cut some forms and fabricated my own. A piece of cardboard was held up against the inside of the opening and the opening was traced. The template was cut out about 3/16" outside the trace line, then transferred to a hunk of 3/8" aluminum plate I had laying around.
A few minutes on the bandsaw & sanding station and I had a forming plug.

A section of screen was cut about 3/4" oversize, it and the plug clamped in the vise (soft jaws). Lots of love-taps with a rubber mallet, working around the edge yielded some presentable pieces. (The driver's and passenger side cardboard was so similar, that only one plug was needed. Just flip for whatever side you're making)

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The raw edges were trimmed with a sharp, new snips, a few test fits, then the pieces held in place with a paint stick & ty-raps.
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A generous blob of black silicone on a finger, pressed through the mesh around the rim, then smoothed holds them in.

(a similar procedure was used to make a screen for the oil cooler opening)
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[Fixit]

04/26
Reasonably productive weekend on #9365. The last pieces of carpet went down.
Yup, those goofy octopus lookin' things that cover the doorsills (that don't fit fer crap!).

I anticipated some gaps and mis-alignment, so I masked off & sprayed the sills with rattle-can satin black. Several test dry-fittings, a trim here, a trim there and then glued them down. All in all it didn't turn out too badly... but having a seam on the "doorsill to sidewall" bugs me. It's a scuff/wear area. Many builders have the carpet edged to blend this raw seam, I went a different tack.

Got a length of 1x1x1/16 aluminum angle. Measured it a bit long, cut it off, and then started to experiment with how to bend it (I don't have a stretcher/shrinker rig).
V1.0 - Cold bending just results in the piece cracking & tearing. (Kinda expected this but had to try).
V2.0 - Heat. Well, a propane torch just won't cut it. Not enough heat concentrated in the bend area... piece cracked again.
V3.0 - Hotter Heat. Broke out the Oxy/Acetylene rig. Plenty of heat... yup, don't pay attention for 20ms and you have a puddle.
V3.1 - Payed closer attention to the torch, nearly made a presentable piece... but just had to give it that little bit more and cracked it. (arggg).

V3.2 & .3 - After a run to the hardware store for more raw materials... I was able to produce two nice pieces. Playing the torch at that fine line of "Pliable & Puddle" the pieces bent to the measured 25 degs, without a noticeable amount of stretch/thinning in the curve.
The car was measured, the pieces marked (and double checked!) and cut to length. 3 mounting holes were drilled, and the pieces used as templates to drill the car.
Some time with a sanding block, then the buffing wheel with a few grades of compound and the pieces were done. They're held in place with #6 SS screws.

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[TMartinLVNV]

That looks really good. I have that seam exposed and it does bother me a little bit.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Looks great John

Jeff

[Papa]

Looks good and very similar to what I did, but I just did relief cuts on mine at the bend locations.

[Fixit]

Since 1st start, my charging system output voltage has been 14+ volts - nearing 15v. Always had a ??? in my head about that, and never was really comfortable about it.

I'm running the Ford Controls Pack wiring harness, and (did) have the 3-prong connector plugged into the alternator. (Large red to output post - standard stuff).

Did some research today on some Ford forums, filtered for guys using a Coyote crate engine, and several times a reply came up with "unplug the 3-prong connector". So I tried it. Output voltage dropped from nearly 15vdc to 13.7vdc... and stayed there, regardless if there was no accessory load, or if I switched EVERYTHING on.

I'm thinkin' the ECM is sending "false" information to the alternator, and having the output go high. When the control connector is off, (guessing) the alternator internally regulates to the "old school standard" of about 13.7 volts.

Anyone have a similar experience?

[FF33rod]

How is the ground at the alternator? Initially I was seeing a few screwy readings.
I have an accessory drive, pulleys, etc with a lot of paint and clear coat so I ended up putting a separate ground strap from the alternator to the frame and things looked a lot better

Steve

[edwardb]

Since 1st start, my charging system output voltage has been 14+ volts - nearing 15v. Always had a ??? in my head about that, and never was really comfortable about it.

I'm running the Ford Controls Pack wiring harness, and (did) have the 3-prong connector plugged into the alternator. (Large red to output post - standard stuff).

Did some research today on some Ford forums, filtered for guys using a Coyote crate engine, and several times a reply came up with "unplug the 3-prong connector". So I tried it. Output voltage dropped from nearly 15vdc to 13.7vdc... and stayed there, regardless if there was no accessory load, or if I switched EVERYTHING on.

I'm thinkin' the ECM is sending "false" information to the alternator, and having the output go high. When the control connector is off, (guessing) the alternator internally regulates to the "old school standard" of about 13.7 volts.

Anyone have a similar experience?

Many including me have noted the somewhat higher voltage with the Coyote setup. So what you're seeing isn't unusual or the first. I've run mine for three seasons on the Roadster and now starting the second season on the Coupe. No issues and everyone else I've talked to say the same thing. No issue. Just a few months ago someone on here mentioned that Ford Performance told them to unplug the connector. First I'd heard that. That was for a specific issue and didn't solve the problem BTW. Turned out to be a loose connection. Interesting you're seeing the same advice on other forums. Anyway the PCM is doing more than just turning the alternator on or off. It's monitoring other things and adjusting accordingly. Obviously couldn't do that without the control cable attached. I'm leaving mine connected. https://iihs.net/fsm/?d=361&f=Charging%20System.pdf

[Railroad]

My voltage reading is also high. I attribute this to the inaccuracy of the gauge. If you have a tuner, you might open the live feed and see the voltage on your laptop. I have done this, but do not recall monitoring the alt voltage.

[Fixit]

Just got off a "chat" with Ford Performance... here's a copy of our conversation:

Info
at 14:28, May 3:
Thank you for choosing to chat with us. An agent will be with you shortly.
Info
at 14:28, May 3:
You are now chatting with Anthony.
Anthony
at 14:29, May 3:
Hello John, how can I help you?
John Delke
at 14:30, May 3:
Hello... Running a Coyote crate in an FFR Roadster (Cobra), and am concerned about the alternator output voltage. It's nearly 15v, not the "usual" 13.7 to 14 as all my other toys are.
Anthony
at 14:30, May 3:
One moment please.
Anthony
at 14:32, May 3:
Let me transfer you to a Techline Associate. One moment please.
Info
at 14:32, May 3:
Please wait while your chat is transferred to Steve.
Info
at 14:32, May 3:
You are now chatting with Steve.
John Delke
at 14:33, May 3:
I am using the Controls Pack, have the 3-prong connector & 10g output wire connected.
Steve
at 14:34, May 3:
What control pack do you have?
John Delke
at 14:34, May 3:
I'd have to dig out the invoice, but it was purchased in '18 for the Gen 2 crate engine of the time.
Steve
at 14:35, May 3:
15 Volts is normal for the current Mustangs
John Delke
at 14:36, May 3:
OK... I was surfing around on some Ford perf forums, and a few suggested unplugging the 3-prong. So I did, and the voltage at the battery (running) was then at 13.7v - regardless of accessory load. Curious as to the function of the 3-prong wiring...
Steve
at 14:37, May 3:
It is controlling the Regulator thru the PCM
John Delke
at 14:38, May 3:
Is the value adjustable with a "tuner", or is it fixed at the 14.8-ish V ?
Steve
at 14:39, May 3:
fixed
John Delke
at 14:39, May 3:
10-4... Will the alternator or PCM be harmed without the control signal?
Steve
at 14:40, May 3:
nope
Steve
at 14:40, May 3:
It will work as a 1 Wire Alt
John Delke
at 14:41, May 3:
Copy that... I'm just a little more comfortable with the 13.7v, as it's within the +/- 10% "rule of thumb" my engineering head is programmed to.
Steve
at 14:42, May 3:
Understood
John Delke
at 14:42, May 3:
Others in the FFR community are curious to this as well. Are you able to send me an email transcript of our conversation?
Steve
at 14:43, May 3:
I think you can copy iy from there
John Delke
at 14:43, May 3:
Will do - thanks!

[edwardb]

It's encouraging you were able to get through and get some responses. They had gone pretty quiet last year during the peak of the whole Covid lockdown. I'm not surprised you received the "it's normal" response since that's what many of us have also heard and experienced. Also good you were able to confirm it's OK to leave the control connector off if that makes you more comfortable. What's your take on the various controls the PCM provides, e.g. reacts to temperature, other conditions, etc. Described in the document I linked in an earlier response. You're OK with none of that functional? Also curious if you've cross checked the voltage you're seeing with a known accurate meter vs. the gauge on the dash. I'm still leaving mine plugged in BTW.

[Nigel Allen]

At first I was alarmed by the high volts (~15.5V) showing on my Speedhut volt meter. Checked it with a calibrated VOM and found the Speedhut gauge was spot-on. Interestingly, with a CANBUS reader connected to the the PCM on my Gen1, I see a displayed value of 14.5V. This to me looks more like an issue with the calibration of the voltage scaling. I wouldn't know if this is done in the alternator or the PCM, but could explain why the alternator output is high.

Can / should this be fixed? I don't know. I can say that after 10 years I am only on my second, stock standard, automotive battery, have had no blown globes or overcharging issues (although I haven't checked the electrolyte in a while). I have also left the control plug on the alternator connected.

Just my 2 cents.

Nigel

[Fixit]

What's your take on the various controls the PCM provides, e.g. reacts to temperature, other conditions, etc. Described in the document I linked in an earlier response. You're OK with none of that functional? Also curious if you've cross checked the voltage you're seeing with a known accurate meter vs. the gauge on the dash. I'm still leaving mine plugged in BTW.

At first I was alarmed by the high volts (~15.5V) showing on my Speedhut volt meter. Checked it with a calibrated VOM and found the Speedhut gauge was spot-on. Interestingly, with a CANBUS reader connected to the the PCM on my Gen1, I see a displayed value of 14.5V. This to me looks more like an issue with the calibration of the voltage scaling. I wouldn't know if this is done in the alternator or the PCM, but could explain why the alternator output is high.

I guess (like everything else in life nowadays) this is the "New Normal" . If Ford engineering has deemed that +/- 14.5V is the baseline operating voltage for the charging system, who am I to argue.
I did check V with two known meters, and there was no difference between readings during several tests (plugged in or not). The SpeedHut gauge is also accurate - well, as accurate as an analog dial can be...
As long as the system is "smart", and will not boil the battery I'll reconnect my PCM data plug. I do like the monitoring and variable control(s) that are in place.

It's also good to have confirmed that if the PCM circuit goes wonky, the unit will still function as a "one wire" alternator and not leave you stranded.

The only concern I still have in the back of my head are the other (non-Ford) components in the car. The SpeedHut gauges, LED lighting, wiper & blower motor for example. Are they rated for this "higher than old standard" (13.7-ish) voltage, or are they running at the upper end of their tolerance? Will this effect lifespan?

[Fixit]

The only concern I still have in the back of my head are the other (non-Ford) components in the car. The SpeedHut gauges, LED lighting, wiper & blower motor for example.

I logged into SpeedHut, and found this
According to their spec/tech sheet, their instruments have an operating range of 8 to 18 VDC.

[Fixit]

Now that the paint has reached "full cure" another item got knocked off the list... "Clear Bra" film.
The front area of the rear fender flares is notorious for collecting rock chips. (When I delivered the car to Jeff, he noted to me there were several dings through the gel-coat and into the 'glass already!)


I wanted to cover the rear flares, behind the rear wheels, and the tops of the doors. (You're always hanging your elbow out since the cockpit's so narrow, and I wanted to keep watches, buttons, sunscreen, whatever off the paint!).
There's a shop just a few blocks away from me, and I brought it over to them for an estimate. They agreed with my "needs", but recommended covering the entire door to avoid a horizontal (and really visible) seam where the door breaks downward. Their spitball estimate was $600 to $700...


The material is available all over Amazon & Ebay, but not in the widths/sizes needed for a large area (like the doors). The online stuff is pretty much in 1, 6, 12, 18 inch widths, and varying lengths. I called another local shop. We'd had a Chevelle Club "Paintless Dent Session" meeting there... so they knew me. I explained what I needed and wanted to do, and they agreed to sell me the film... no pleading, bribing, just "What size?".

I gave them my dimensions, they altered them to fit the size of material they had on-hand (oversize a bit), and told me it'd be about $125. SOLD! I drove the Roadster over there to pick the film up, we verified the dimensions, they cut my pieces, and every guy in the shop came out to gawk at the car!


I highly recommend watching a BUNCH of YouTube videos about doing this. It's really not too difficult, but the videos reveal several tips-n-tricks that really help.
This car has more compound curves than Marilyn Monroe & Jane Russell combined... If I can do this, anyone can.

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[mosh1999]

Looks great! How do you handle the edges at the wheel opens? Wrap all the way around the edge?

[Fixit]

Wrap all the way around the edge?

Yup... Trimmed off the material where the rolled edge meets the "flat" inside the wheelhouse.

[Fixit]

Took #9365 on a weekender to a car show that the Lions Club sponsors every June in a little north-central MN town.
This was a torture-test for the cooling system. 95+F ambient, stuck in stop n go for over an hour, and the temp gauge never nudged over 85C (185F).

The only changes from "as supplied" in the kit are molded hoses & hard pipes, and a Breeze shroud.
IMO the fan shroud is a MUST HAVE for anyone building a Roadster.

Another milestone was also noted - we rolled 5000 miles on this trip!
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[Fixit]

Pulled the trigger and registered for PowerCruise USA

I have attended several of these events over the years, from #1 to #6, then a couple till now... with my other hotrod "Blackie" ('65 El Camino)
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Not too crazy about the burnout & drift events, but it is an opportunity to get your car on a REAL track for a reasonable price.

[Fixit]

5000+ mile update...
#9365 got it's 5000 mile oil change - poured the used stuff through a screen & magnet and nothing (!)

I also changed the gearbox lube. This was the 1st time since install.
There was a little "swirl" of silver in the fluid, but the screen & magnet revealed no major particles. The "swirl" is nothing that I didn't expect with a bunch of new gears getting to know each other.

(The IRS diff was a 1000 mile takeout, and I changed the fluid at install)

A squirt of grease in all the zerks, and I think I'm good to go!

A front to back bolt check revealed only one loose fastener... one of the rear "elephant ear" mounting bolts. (JK you owe me a dollar now, not $.75)

I'm hauling 9365 to the track on a stretcher.
I usually take pride in myself by driving to & from events, but I want to remove the "How you gonna get home?" monkey from my back.
This will be the 1st time I will be able to really cut this beast loose in a safe environment, hammer the throttle & brakes HARD, and make adjustments (also discover my testicular fortitude.)

[Fixit]

Update...131.jpg

Comes with a price...
battlescar.jpg

[Higgybulin]

Seems like a small price to pay! Cause I'm sure the testicular fortitude that you have now reassured yourself you have was worth it!!

[Fixit]

A little teaser...

[Higgybulin]

A little teaser...

They don't even make you put on a bucket?! Wow, wind in your hair and everything! Best place to do it, ON the track.

[7tvette]

That's awesome! I'm really surprised too about no helmet.
On a side note, this makes me homesick. I have a summer home 30 miles from BIR in Crosslake. Being in Canada and the boarders being closed we haven't been able to get there for 2 years.

Troy

[Fixit]

That's awesome! I'm really surprised too about no helmet.

Powercruise is a pretty laid-back event - "Old School" for lack of a term. A minimal tech inspection, legal disclaimer, and you're on the track. (The way it should be - if you F-up, IT'S YOUR FAULT).

They have sessions during the event where you are competing... drift, burnout, flag-drop drags, powerskids - and you need to have ankle to wrist clothing and a helmet.

[Fixit]

Mrs. Fixit & I spent a long weekend at our lake cabin - doing "phase I" of seasonal shutdown - lots of the piddly stuff that just takes time (pulling/storing dock accessories, yard art, the boat, boat lift, etc.). But, we did plan on a day-trip excursion for Friday (best weather day).

Took the Roadster from our place to Longville, Remur (Sasquatch siting town), Grand Rapids, Deer River, Bemidji, Itasca State Park, then Walker for dinner... About a 230 mile loop. Lots of great scenery, twisties, and point of interest stops along the way.

The car performed flawlessly, pulling about 21 mpg with speeds varying from 45 to 75 mph. Rolled 6200 miles somewhere along the way!
Same spot (Bemidji MN) roughly 2 years apart.

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[Fixit]

Well...
A full tank of "Sta-Bil"ized gas, Battery Tender clipped on, cover on... tucked in for a winter's nap.

[Fixit]

Wow... almost 3 months since an update, and more than as many years since the start of my build...
#9365 is still under-cover, on a battery tender, and up here in "Frostbite Falls" (negative 7F this am) cruising season is still months away.

One thing I have done is upgrade my PC to something with some horsepower, and compile the library of photos into videos.
I was lucky to have beaten the "Covid" BS by about a year, and truly have sympathy for those with long delivery dates and subsequent POL's... but trust me - when that big truck shows up all is forgiven & forgotten.
Delivery Day