Newbie needed some help guys...

[ProStreet1]

Hey Everyone:

New to the site as well as my first purchase of a Beautiful 33' FFR Roadster with the Hard top option. This car was built in 2009, has approximately 4000 miles since the build and still I will say by far one of the nicest hotrods I've ever seen or owned. With that being said, I'm going to refer to this site for some unknowns. You can only gather some much from the any previous owner.
My car has a BAD gas smell obviously around the rear of the car. Noticed this day one and I've owned the car for 4 weeks. Still figuring it out and making it my own.
When I see the build photos, it appears the tank does have a vent leading from the top passenger side and goes up and loops around a frame cross member a couple times. However, the gas fill area is in the top left corned with trunk lid open, meaning that when the car is filled completely, the car now leaks out of the vent tube and drips underside.

Curious as I'm sure this has been brought up prior, what is the fix?

Appreciate any help moving forward...

[RoadRacer]

Can you post pics? There were a couple of tank options and it may help to see it.

Having said that, that vent tube is done differently by everyone. I just have a fuel line running down from there to level with the axle and get that smell only when the tank is recently full or heavily cornered. I notice it every few weeks. Some have put a charcoal canister on the end to help.. either homemade or bought. You can search for charcoal and find a bunch.

But it's up to you if it needs fixing or not.

FWIW, the older Gen1 style tank did have filling issues (filled slowly) so that may become a factor in your enjoyment too. The later design changes this, as does the boyd tank.

P.S. Welcome!! There's a great bunch of folks here.

Submit to the google maps thread and others can find you then.

[chmhasy]

Does the car have a Charcoal canister?

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...rcoal-Canister

[ProStreet1]

Guys, this is all new to me, I haven't even had my eyes on the vent tube yet, just referencing the build manual. I'm convinced it's a 1st addition FFR tank as it is slow to fill but was told by the builder an addition was added which helped slightly. I put 7 gallons in the car Sunday at the pump and it was roughly 12 to 15 minutes which didn't upset me any... People all over the car while I'm putting fuel in. Anyway, convince no charcola canister added I'm aware of and I can assume these are added to the end of the vent tube?

[RoadRacer]

Guys, this is all new to me, I haven't even had my eyes on the vent tube yet, just referencing the build manual. I'm convinced it's a 1st addition FFR tank as it is slow to fill but was told by the builder an addition was added which helped slightly. I put 7 gallons in the car Sunday at the pump and it was roughly 12 to 15 minutes which didn't upset me any... People all over the car while I'm putting fuel in. Anyway, convince no charcola canister added I'm aware of and I can assume these are added to the end of the vent tube?

Yep, on the end of the vent tube. Jack it up or just shimmy under there and you should see it come down the front of the tank and out through the aluminum panel.

[33fromSD]

First off, WELCOME!! The 33 HR is a great car and there are no two alike due to each owners own customizations.

Mine is a Gen2 chassis and like James, mine is just vented with a rubber gas line coming from the vent in the tank out the bottom by the axle, no charcoal canister although I may add one as additional precaution. The only time I have any type of gas odor is right after I fill it up full. After driving a few miles, the gas smell is gone.

Enjoy the ride

Jim

[michael everson]

my guess is you have a leaky gasket where the fuel pump goes in the tank or where the fuel level is. Lets hope not, because if I remember right you cant get the tank out with the body on.
Mike

[ProStreet1]

Appreciate the help so far. I know I visually need to view the tank to make sure the fill area isn't the leak. I'm fairly convinced the vent tube at its highest point is still below the point of me filling the fill tube completely which to me means it will leak fuel until the tank level equals the vent tube level or below.
If my thinking is correct and i add a charcoal filter of some sort at the end of the vent tube, what happens the next time the gas is filled, then the charcoal filter gets saturated with fuel and then?? See where I'm going with this? I really want to make this tank work and I may go after the hard to fill issue while I'm at it but that honestly doesn't bother me.

Appreciate the experience and ideas everyone. I haven't even seen the tank yet. Hoping i open the trunk, remove the furthest forward upholstery panel and tank is exposed...

[33fromSD]

Appreciate the help so far. I know I visually need to view the tank to make sure the fill area isn't the leak. I'm fairly convinced the vent tube at its highest point is still below the point of me filling the fill tube completely which to me means it will leak fuel until the tank level equals the vent tube level or below.
If my thinking is correct and i add a charcoal filter of some sort at the end of the vent tube, what happens the next time the gas is filled, then the charcoal filter gets saturated with fuel and then?? See where I'm going with this? I really want to make this tank work and I may go after the hard to fill issue while I'm at it but that honestly doesn't bother me.

Appreciate the experience and ideas everyone. I haven't even seen the tank yet. Hoping i open the trunk, remove the furthest forward upholstery panel and tank is exposed...

Unfortunately (at least on Gen 2, I think Gen 1 is the same) you won't see the tank from the trunk even if you remove the panel you mention. The forward upholstery panel is most likely carpet glue directly to the aluminum panel riveted to the frame or it's an upholstery panel mounted to the aluminum panel riveted to the frame.

Only access to the tank is to pull the seats and the waterfall behind the seats. 1st picis where the tank sits in the frame. behind the tank is the aluminum panel I was mentioning that is riveted to the frame from the trunk side. The 2nd pic is with the body on before the waterfall panel is attached but you can see how it sits in there.

If memory serves me right, with a little luck, lots of cursing, lots of removing of parts and an extra set of hands to lift up slightly on the body lip I believe I could slide my tank out with the body on but it's one of those projects you really don't want to do cause it's really involved.


20201002_075510.jpg 20201220_075916.jpg

Jim

[HVACMAN]

Unfortunately (at least on Gen 2, I think Gen 1 is the same) you won't see the tank from the trunk even if you remove the panel you mention. The forward upholstery panel is most likely carpet glue directly to the aluminum panel riveted to the frame or it's an upholstery panel mounted to the aluminum panel riveted to the frame.

Only access to the tank is to pull the seats and the waterfall behind the seats. 1st picis where the tank sits in the frame. behind the tank is the aluminum panel I was mentioning that is riveted to the frame from the trunk side. The 2nd pic is with the body on before the waterfall panel is attached but you can see how it sits in there.

If memory serves me right, with a little luck, lots of cursing, lots of removing of parts and an extra set of hands to lift up slightly on the body lip I believe I could slide my tank out with the body on but it's one of those projects you really don't want to do cause it's really involved.


20201002_075510.jpg 20201220_075916.jpg

Jim

Looking at your picture #1 it doesn't appear the FF tank will clear the frame or the uprights for the rollbar. I am dealing with this future possibility on my Gen1 now. With the Gen1 and Boyd tank the tank will slide straight forward and between the uprights. Because I am building a permanent coupe, I am making my waterfall a three piece unit. The center piece will be removable so the tank will slide straight forward after removing the seats of course. I haven't seen a Gen2, in person, to know if this is a possibility.

[33fromSD]

Looking at your picture #1 it doesn't appear the FF tank will clear the frame or the uprights for the rollbar. I am dealing with this future possibility on my Gen1 now. With the Gen1 and Boyd tank the tank will slide straight forward and between the uprights. Because I am building a permanent coupe, I am making my waterfall a three piece unit. The center piece will be removable so the tank will slide straight forward after removing the seats of course. I haven't seen a Gen2, in person, to know if this is a possibility.

Yeah, I'm not 100% sure it will fit yet, never tried (hope I never have to try) but keep in mind there is at least 4" of room past the frame where you could slide the tank into towards the body quarter panel on either side and try to shimmy it out. The biggest hurdle I suspect is the filler outlet on the Gen2 tank which is in the trunk about 4", I'm not sure if there would be enough room to clear the aluminum panel while trying to slide the tank around during removal. May have to remove the aluminum panel which means removing A LOT of stuff in the trunk.

Definitely would not be easy, I just never say never until I try to do something and see for myself it cannot be done and at this point fingers crossed I have no plans of ever removing the tank, but s**t happens right, so one never knows.

The other option in my case since I don't use the roll bar would be to cut out the roll bar socket tubes but then too, the filler outlet still needs to be dealt with. I know height wise it would fit since I have jammed my hands up in there by lifting slightly on the lip of the body above the tank to install my 1/4" return line.

Jim

[ProStreet1]

So with what has been said, access to the tank is a little challenge, may turn into a project later, out of driving season if interior needs removed. I think I will purchase a charcoal canister of some sort to end the vent tube with. I'm assuming the vent tube never really reached the height of the fill neck so if that's true, the vent tube would leak for a while. I can teach myself to top it off around 3/4 tank. I really don't want the charcoal filter to get and stay saturated with fuel. I also am assuming there have been some leaking tanks where the fill tube mounts in the tank. I will try to get everything spotless underside and try to determine the specifics of the dripping. I filled it last weekend to the top and drove it maybe 5 miles or so. Leaking seems to have subsided in the garage for now which significantly settles the :gas: smell however that's not the solution.

Thanks again for all the experience...

[ProStreet1]

Jim:
Thanks for the pictures. Do you possibly have one showing the fill tube how it connects to the tank and curious how many gallons these tanks hold?

Thanks18.jpg

[FF33rod]

It's about 13 gallons.
Here is a pic from the manual that shows the fill tube connection

fill tube.jpg

Steve

[33fromSD]

Jim:
Thanks for the pictures. Do you possibly have one showing the fill tube how it connects to the tank and curious how many gallons these tanks hold?

Thanks18.jpg

Nice looking ride, I'm glad Steve responded about the fill tube because for the Gen2 tank they eliminated the fill tube. Now there is just a 4"x4" welded outcrop on the tank.

Terrible pic but --> 20210820_192246.jpg

Jim

[ProStreet1]

OK guys, I finally got an engagement party and wedding out of the way and back on the car. I must admit I'm a little confused with the fill area and how it appears to enter the tank... It doesn't look the same as the photos you guys have shared so far. I will try to get a photo of my tank entry this evening to share. As soon as the gas goes in, my neck doesn't go down, it makes an immediate 90* to the front of the car and then I believe goes up. Anyway I'll try to get a photo this evening but I would like to share my experience this weekend...
I took a picture of the fuel gauge with no leaks underside at all. My electric fuel pump obviously comes on at key on. Gauge was just below a 1/2 tank. I add exactly one gallon of fuel, 15 mins go by no leak, and the fuel gauge now is a hair above 1/2. I add a second gallon of fuel, 15 mins go by, no leaks and now gauge is close to 5/8, add a third gallon, again, no leaks and gauge now is 3/4, add a 4th gallon, no leaks and now reads between 3/4 and full...No leaks what so every, not a drop at all underside. Now I want to work on my tune, working on centrifugal weight springs and such, car is warmed up for about 15 minutes, shut the car down, look underside and see a couple small puddles where the leak has run down the frame and onto the floor. Underside it looks like coming from the top of the tank on the drivers side. Really unsure why no leaks but running it does leak. my initial thoughts are where the electric fuel pump is pulling fuel from... Any thoughts?

[FF33rod]

Hate to say it but you really need to remove the rear of the cockpit so you can have a look at the tank and how it was constructed. Otherwise you (and us) are mostly shooting in the dark. Every builder does something a bit different.

Steve

[33fromSD]

Hate to say it but you really need to remove the rear of the cockpit so you can have a look at the tank and how it was constructed. Otherwise you (and us) are mostly shooting in the dark. Every builder does something a bit different.

Steve

fully agree

Jim

[MonstaS4]

I'm doing some work in this area now while I have the body off.
I have a Gen 1/2 hybrid and it appears I have the later fuel tank with no filler neck. I found fuel residue around the FFR fuel pump/level sender flange following a go-kart. I suspected a leak past the gasket so refitted it using some permatex 'form-a-gasket'. Pressure tested the tank and found it still leaked, but this time around the mounting screws. The sender flange has a ridge in it which allows a leak past the threads and out under the screw head which doesn't sit flush with the flange:

20210921_1040.JPG

I then added some RTV sealant to the threads which has solved the issue.

Here in Australia, we're required to run a charcoal canister. I too was concerned about fuel filling the canister with a full tank. I've added a loop to the vent hose which sits higher than the tank with the hope that this will prevent siphoning. Time will tell, I'm still a way off getting it on the road.

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[Brave Salmon]

You should not have a siphoning problem with the vent tube since it is at the top of the tank and does not extend down into the fuel.

[33fromSD]

Looks like a FFR set up on the tank (regarding sender location and vent location) "except" for the in-tank fuel pump on the right of the fuel sender, this appears to be a modification to the original tank or possibly a custom tank.

Glad you found the problem.

Jim

[ProStreet1]

Thanks for all of the help guys, and I do realize I'm somewhat chasing my tail until I can remover the seats and waterfall panels to actually put my eyes on this area. My plans are now to set up my overhead winch/harness for my hardtop to make this easy on-easy off when desired. As soon as the cold weather even shows its signs, the car will be away for winter and up in the air where I can still work on the interior and still get under the car comfortably. I will revisit this when we get to this part, probably early November.