Roadracer's #997 build

[J R Jones]

James, Did you resolve your rear ARB mounting issue? What did you do?
jim

[RoadRacer]

James, Did you resolve your rear ARB mounting issue? What did you do?
jim

Nothing yet, still on my todo list. Snugged it up that time and hasn't moved since.

[RoadRacer]

"fun" time with parts this last couple weeks. I ordered new axles from Jegs to replace my bent one. 2 days later the order got canceled - the parts were discontinued. Did it again with different parts. Same happened.

This went on 4 times, each time with customer service help.. they placed the orders after "triple-checking" the parts were ok, and in stock. 4 orders were canceled and 10 days wasted.

Finally, a set of axles arrives! Hoorah, just in time for the weekend...

..this is what I saw when I opened the box. The axles came with a bag of new studs, bearings and seals.. but still had an old set of studs semi-installed (3 were loose)

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Obviously these aren't new axles. At best, someone has returned them after starting to install them. Are these new or used? No one knows. Jegs are baffled, and the manufacturer just wants to send new ones out. But after 5 sets, I'm done with jegs. I ordered a set from Summit, which shipped same day (Friday) and are arriving Monday. So I lose a weekend, but Jegs have lost my business forever after this disaster.

On a lighter note, I installed the 7" 350lb rear springs today (yes, shorted than the stock 8", they didn't have 8" option) - works great and gives me even more clearance for the sway bar! Of course, stiffer, so I'm hoping to be cornering even quicker.

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I also ordered my new wheels so I can get off this temporary set and get the tires I wanted. Went for Forgestar CF5V in 19x10 and 19x13, with 295/30r19 and 355/30r19 Michelin PS4S which apparently are a great dual road/race tire until I get some slicks.

[RoadRacer]

The new wheels arrived!

Tires are coming next month or so when I'm a bit closer to the wear line on my current temp set.

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[33fromSD]

N-I-C-E James!!

I'm sure glad I'm not the only person who uses the dining room table for photos or projects. A few years back, the day before Thanks Giving in which we were hosting about 30 people I decided to rebuild my 70 challenger dashboard on the dining room table. We'll just leave it at my wife was thrilled with me.

Jim

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[RoadRacer]

Hooray, after many miles with a slightly bent axle (I didn't know for most of those) I finally got some replacements from Summit and got them fitted this weekend. No more squeaky brake on that side (The bent hub was wearing out the pad clips fast by moving the pads in and out every revolution!)

changing axles.jpg

Here's what the pads looked like, one side to another:

rear-pads-squeaky.jpg

Pretty straightforward job, even though I hadn't done it before. Installing the studs in the axles was the hardest part - I did it with one of those stud install bearings but even so I stripped 5-6 nuts pulling them through with the impact wrench. Only had weak crappy nuts lying around, but it was better that they sacrificed themselves than damaged the studs

I don't have a press and certainly didn't want to be hitting them in and end up with another bent one.. anyway, all done now.

Also tried my spacers on (they also convert from 5x114.3 to 6x114.3) and the wheel to make sure it fitted as planned - it did. My old 19x10 285/35 for comparison.

new wheel1.jpg new wheel2.jpg new wheel3.jpg

One slight SNAFU - when I ordered I must have been distracted and ordered the spacers with the correct specs except the studs.. which came as 12-1.5, not 1/2-20, so I'll change them out. But happy that they all fit correctly!

[progmgr1]

Maybe a dumb question, but did you remember to freeze the studs before installing? Makes going in a lot easier if they are shrunken down. Also, I had good luck using a bench vice and a piece of steel tube as a press for installing studs.

HTH Keith HR #894

[RoadRacer]

Maybe a dumb question, but did you remember to freeze the studs before installing? Makes going in a lot easier if they are shrunken down. Also, I had good luck using a bench vice and a piece of steel tube as a press for installing studs.

HTH Keith HR #894

No I didn't realize that would make such a difference. I did initially wonder about the vice idea.. in hindsight I wish I'd done that. Lesson learned.. I've only done this stud installation once before, many moons ago.

[RoadRacer]

For those that are interested in the VPM rear sway bar (and in my opinion, it's so awesome and easy you all should be!) I added a tweak to the setup today. I had noticed that the bar can walk a little sideways in the bushings over time. This may not be an issue in the roadster that it was designed for, but on the 33, there is very little room on driver's side for sideways movement, see below..

sway bar ds.jpg

To be clear, it's never walked enough to touch either the chassis or the shock, but I don't want to take that chance!

I'd previously marked the bar like this, so I could see any movement easily

sway bar marks.jpg

Anyway, here's my attempted fix, we'll see if it works as well as I hope: a couple of 3/4" collars

sway bar collar 2.jpg sway bar collar 1.jpg

BTW, for those following along - I've never again had the problem where the sway bar bracket spun on the rear end in the first week, so I'm not planning to fix a problem I may never have again.

[RoadRacer]

Huzzah! Time to get serious, I finally got new tires.. and the date codes (2721) were amazing! I'm always nervous about datecodes on new fancy tires. But 27th week of 2021 (July), is frankly way better than expected!

The 295 are a little wider than the old 285, but the 355's are MUCH nicer. And sticky AF, compared to my hard-as-a-rock 2016/2018 tires.

Can't wait to try these out.

Before and After:

before tires.jpg after tires.jpg

tires-old.jpg tires-new.jpg

I was very impressed with the local mobile fitment guy - if you're around Austin you should use him. https://www.facebook.com/GoMobileTiresAustin

He has better equipment than any tire shop I've ever seen. His equipment didn't ever touch my wheels. Fascinating to watch.

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[RoadRacer]

Been having fun on the new tires - certainly grippier! I can't be very quantifiable though - my next race (autox) is Dec 5th.

My engine needs some tuning.. been fine so far, but I've noticed some changes. Harder to keep going and easier to stall when cold for the first 10 mins (it's a carb), and also started popping through exhaust when decelerating. Unburnt fuel.

So I have it on my list to check plugs, timing, mixture, probably next weekend (a 4 day weekend!)

Oh, and I quickly fitted a manual choke cable today before the Grand Prix, just to help out with the cold running.

[Iziks]

Love the tire and wheel combo! We’re the spacers needed for fitment purposes, or simply to covert to six lug? Any other mods to get those to fit.

[RoadRacer]

Love the tire and wheel combo! We’re the spacers needed for fitment purposes, or simply to covert to six lug? Any other mods to get those to fit.

Yeah, there are very few wheels this size (for this price), and all have similar offsets. I needed a 2" spacer to use these, and I believe have the widest rear available. Others rears are narrower, so would need more.

3-piece wheels can of course be made any offset, but they're a lot more money. I did that once before, but this time around I went for the lower-cost option. And since I needed 5-to-6 lug anyway (the wheels are only made for viper).. the spacers made more sense.

With the spacers, no other mods are required.

[RoadRacer]

Sunday was my 4th autocross event - car was much better suspension-wise. I had added stiffer springs and a rear sway bar since my previous event, and you could see that the roll was much reduced. Here's the video of my best run:
b


And some photos from the professional photographer that always attends - very helpful because you can really see how the car sits on very fast corners - photo #3 was at fastest part of the course.

IMG_5711.jpg IMG_6185.jpg IMG_7126.jpg
IMG_7134.jpg IMG_7561.jpg IMG_7567.jpg

Now, I still think the car is showing a little positive camber on corners, so I'm going to experiment with some more static negative camber. I want to see an upright tire at worst when cornering. It's much better, but look at #6.. sure looks like some positive camber there. I wish it was faster to adjust at the track so that the stopwatch could tell the story, but at autox there's very little time between runs. I'd have to play with that on a track day perhaps. Not sure when the next one is.

The VPM rear sway bar is still working well. Still was very easy to fit and use on the '33. I've also been talking to Gordon Levy about an Aero6 brake set 14" and 13" for next year which would make the world of difference on the track (and the road!)

[J R Jones]

James, The camber is not bad at the extreme, too much negative could have consequences when not at the extreme.
Any tire rub in back? Looks close.
jim

[RoadRacer]

Yeah no tire rub. I doubt I'll ever corner as violently on the street (or even a circuit) as I do in autox, so we're seeing it at its worst here.

Agreed, the camber isn't awful, but why not tweak it Always tweaking and experimenting - and I can always switch it back (as I did with my extreme caster trials at one point)

[RoadRacer]

I've only just started logging gallons and mileage every time I fill up, in a spreadsheet to calculate my average mpg. Of course I'm probably the worst type of driver, very lead foot, daily driving, and a double pumper carb. But still, only a mild 350, most people guess around 300hp (but we don't know what the motor has in it).

Anyway, thought it'd be interesting. My current average (so far taken over 642 miles and 8 fillups) is 10.7mpg

Something surprising - I always thought the FFR tank was 13.5g. It still says that on the website (I have the gen2 tank) - BUT I'VE NEVER GOT MORE THAN 10.6g INTO MY TANK. WTF? I fill up to the very tippy-top, and often on a slight slope forward so I literally fill it up. But I'm 3 gallons short..

Has anyone ever measured the capacity? I've run out of gas on one occasion (I carry a 1g can in the trunk) so I don't think I'm filling 3g early...

[RoadRacer]

Well, I wondered if this problem was going to bite me, and here I am almost 4 years later scratching my head. This photo was taken in May 2017, in the first few weeks of the build.

drivers LCA.jpeg

As you can see, I made the decision to put the LCA in with the bolt head between the bracket and the 3-link structure. The alternative was to cut the bolt shorter and use a lower-profile nut. There's not a lot of room here.

I'm fitting new LCA's from Levy Racing, so I have to fix this somehow. I really don't want to remove the entire 3-link structure and start over (probably the "correct" answer), but the only other way is to saw that bolt head off which is probably easier said than done.

Any suggestions?

Here's the new LCA's, FYI. They'll remove any binding in the old setup, allow me to straighten the angles, and like all rod-ends be less comfortable

2021-12-30 07.19.12.jpg

[J R Jones]

James, You talked me out of it.
The LCAs are part of the 3-link. Is the interfering tube a support for the LCA mount? This is engineering?
Can't you remove the support and relieve the side surface to make room for the bolt head?
jim

[RoadRacer]

James, You talked me out of it.
The LCAs are part of the 3-link. Is the interfering tube a support for the LCA mount? This is engineering?
Can't you remove the support and relieve the side surface to make room for the bolt head?
jim

The interfering tube is the part of the panhard bar support - a pretty big triangular structure bolted to the back of the chassis, whose only point is to mount one end of the panhard bar. What you see is one of the fixing points to the chassis - and it gives very little clearance. To remove this whole structure is a big job. (UPDATE:wrong!)

[RoadRacer]

Ok, I was wrong.. now I'm under the car and removing the old parts I can see that the panhard support is easy to remove. It's a big piece, but the bolts are all easily accessible. So, panic over

[RoadRacer]

Here we are, all fitted and tested. Much better. I supported the diff with a floor jack and removed the panhard structure, then drilled out the brackets (larger bolts) and fitted it all up. I just made the new LCA's the same length as the old for now.

If you look closely at the first pic you'll see that there are two different length spacers.. and they are reversed at each end which has the effect of (almost) making the LCA parallel to the car (in plan view that is).

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Oh, and one more thing. Since I had removed the panhard structure I thought I'd check that the rear was still centered. Obviously nothing should have moved since it was bolted back up where it came from, but I did do a shop alignment back in February which was the only time I've ever touched the rear alignment. All my alignment tweaks have been at the front. And guess what.. the rear was 3/4" off center, from the chassis center. the drivers side was further out than the passenger side. I cannot imagine just what effect that has on the handling, but it's centered now!

[RoadRacer]

Next in the long saga of "continuous improvement" I need to fix the steering (again). That last joint in the steering column that attached to the rack is never going to be good enough - there's just too much leverage in that long unsupported part. Everything I do to try and fix it eventually fails. Now I'm back to poor steering feel and wandering - no amount of tightening the grub screws helps anymore. I tried JBweld.. eventually failed. I need to support the end of this shaft with a bearing to solve the problem for good.

support bearing 2.png support bearing.png

So I'm starting the hunt for the correct new joint with a longer side and the bearing itself. The PFL204 bearing is easy to find. The joint may be a little harder? Stay tuned

[RoadRacer]

or actually - even easier, at least as a proof-of-concept - I could just find a 3/4" bearing and put it over the shaft itself. Worth trying and seeing how it works..

support bearing 3.png

..so I ordered a $10 allstar heim joint and will bend up a bracket.

[RoadRacer]

Had to significantly adjust and tighten my brake balance bar today - now I have what seems like a new braking system! Read the details.. but pics here for my reference.

balance bar.png raw balance bar.png

[RoadRacer]

Finished my mod for supporting the front-most section of the steering column, and I'm very happy with the results so far.

I didn't have any suitable stock, so I found an old bed frame bracket (I have a bin full of old brackets) and modified that to work.. so this whole thing just cost $11 for the Heim joint

steering-support1.jpg steering-support2.jpg steering-support3.jpg steering-support4.jpg

I may replace the rivets with nutserts as needed, but I wanted to try the KISS option first. I have to say, this seems such a simple fix for such a PITA recurring problem.

[RoadRacer]

The next autocross just posted a new event at a new location, where the sound levels are limited to 85db at 75 feet. Pretty strict, so I used an iPhone app to measure my car at 75 feet at 5000 rpm. It was 87db.. but of course these are approximate numbers, no idea how accurate it is.

So I ordered some supertrapp clamp-ons to try and damp the sound down a little. We'll see!

sup-344-2005_w.jpeg

Has anyone ever had their car measured for sound levels? I know some tracks do this, but I've never been to one who actually did it before!

[J R Jones]

James,
I looked back for photos of your car. It looks like your tailpipes aim out, ahead of the rear tires.
When we had to comply with exhaust specs at race tracks competitors found just directing the exhaust away from the meter was significant in passing the test. Alternatively, directing the exhaust down toward the pavement was an improvement.
jim

[RoadRacer]

James,
I looked back for photos of your car. It looks like your tailpipes aim out, ahead of the rear tires.
When we had to comply with exhaust specs at race tracks competitors found just directing the exhaust away from the meter was significant in passing the test. Alternatively, directing the exhaust down toward the pavement was an improvement.
jim

Gotcha, unfortunately the meters are placed on the fence line so there's little I can do other than point it downwards.. but I'll try these temporary addons first

[RoadRacer]

Well the supertrapps were a big failure - but everything is worth an experiment!

I went with something simple, a clamp-on 3" diffuser and sure enough they fitted easily so I fitted on one side, and left off the other, so I could hear the difference. Here's some video:



Of course, MUCH quieter. Even at 5000rpm the sound meter on my phone measured 5db less (which is a lot)

And then I drove it. Or tried to. Although obvious in hindsight, this was WAY too restrictive. My car would hardly accelerate. It was very noticeable and completely undrivable. I yanked them off quickly in case I damaged the motor and returned them to summit. Maybe 4" or 5" ones would work, but they don't come in the same clamp-on 2 or 2.5" style and quickly get more expensive. Maybe an experiment for another day.

Next, I ran down to O'Reilly's and got some real cheaply bent 45º exhaust tips, and will clamp them on instead and test the sound levels again. The idea (as JR suggested above) is to point the exhaust downwards/backwards towards tire (I'll try both). But I'll have to do that another day because the wind alone today is 80db!

exhaust-tip2.jpg exhaust-tip1.jpg

[RoadRacer]

Oh well, 0 for 2 on the sound experiments - the down pipe made the car LOUDER! I measured 80db on the normal side and 82db on the down pipe side (75 ft, 5000rpm). So.... I guess I'm going to the track in stock mode and see what happens

[33fromSD]

Oh well, 0 for 2 on the sound experiments - the down pipe made the car LOUDER! I measured 80db on the normal side and 82db on the down pipe side (75 ft, 5000rpm). So.... I guess I'm going to the track in stock mode and see what happens

Sounds odd, but what if you put a 90* pipe on and pointed them straight up in the air? Pointing out the side or down, echos / directs the sound at objects (either at people if pointed to the side or echos off the ground if pointed down) but pointed up spreads the sound up and oddly may dissipate it some. Just a thunk.

Jim

[RoadRacer]

Sounds odd, but what if you put a 90* pipe on and pointed them straight up in the air? Pointing out the side or down, echos / directs the sound at objects (either at people if pointed to the side or echos off the ground if pointed down) but pointed up spreads the sound up and oddly may dissipate it some. Just a thunk.

Jim

Yes, worth trying!

[J R Jones]

James, Your turn down tail pipes look like 45 degree, we used 90 degree, the objective was to direct the noise away from the meter. Alternative directions are a crap shoot.
FWIW we never directed the exhaust toward the tire tread. Any engine problem could blow something wet on the tread and reduce traction.
Pinching the exhaust tip car reduce noise somewhat.
jim

SSK exh tip.jpg

[Big-boss]

Jim, quick question if you don't mind: When you are tracking your car, does the rear tires rub the body? What kind of travel do you have in the back? Thanks

[RoadRacer]

Jim, quick question if you don't mind: When you are tracking your car, does the rear tires rub the body? What kind of travel do you have in the back? Thanks

Not on the track, but it does occasionally (I could say regularly) on the street, at speed over bumps. I have a stretch of road around here (290 toll) that has some big dips, and at 90+ the tires do graze the body. That's with me balancing the ride height with my 40% stiffer springs. I could go higher rideheight, but don't want to. I'm running 350lb front, 550lb rear springs, all 7". The 9" are a bit long (but can work). I may even go stiffer springs at the front if I can't find a front sway bar.

The roll is controlled by stiffer springs and a VPM 3-link rear sway bar so it does look close on video but doesn't touch. Travel is hard to measure (I'd have to remove the springs) but it's still stock in that I haven't limited it physically in any way. I'm running 355/35r19's too, so it's quite a tall tire.

[Big-boss]

Thanks a bunch.

[HVACMAN]

Not on the track, but it does occasionally (I could say regularly) on the street, at speed over bumps. I have a stretch of road around here (290 toll) that has some big dips, and at 90+ the tires do graze the body. That's with me balancing the ride height with my 40% stiffer springs. I could go higher rideheight, but don't want to. I'm running 350lb front, 550lb rear springs, all 7". The 9" are a bit long (but can work). I may even go stiffer springs at the front if I can't find a front sway bar.

The roll is controlled by stiffer springs and a VPM 3-link rear sway bar so it does look close on video but doesn't touch. Travel is hard to measure (I'd have to remove the springs) but it's still stock in that I haven't limited it physically in any way. I'm running 355/35r19's too, so it's quite a tall tire.

Hi Jim, I think Dan Ruth used to sell a front sway bar for the Gen 1 33's. I could be wrong.

[RoadRacer]

Hi Jim, I think Dan Ruth used to sell a front sway bar for the Gen 1 33's. I could be wrong.

Yeah you're right. I keep hoping to come up with a nicer looking setup.. I think at this point I'm going to have to buy a jegs kit and assemble my own.

[RoadRacer]

A spectator was taking some video of the last autocross and shared these slo-mo’s of my car.



I can only post one per post