FAQ for builders north of the border.

[AC Bill]

Canadian builders face additional challenges in purchasing, importing, registering, etc., FFR's, then our southern brothers. This area is the place to find answers, or to ask questions pertinent to building an FFR in Canada.

[CdnCobraGuy]

First of all a Big Thank you to AC Bill for posting this "Sticky". I have always believed that it is best to approach any project with a base of knowledge and to that end I offer the following.

This article will provide you with the background and the basics required to understand why Importing Kit Cars into Canada is a project unlike any other importation.

Until the 1980's kit cars were allowed into Canada without restriction, but in response to a number of complaints about poor design and unsafe vehicles on the road the Federal Department of Transport adopted a policy of not allowing any kit cars into Canada at all, unless the kit car manufacturer was willing to have the cars certified under Motor Vehicle Safety Standards (MVSS) criteria. The federal Dept. of Transport was given the job of enforcing the regulations and in so doing realized that under the Canadian constitution every citizen has the right to build their own car should they choose to do so.

As a result of this constitutional reality, the DOT developed a system where in, as the regulation states, kit cars are not allowed, but starter kits are. The difference between a kit car and a starter kit is that the starter kit is essentially a kit car that has no components for the brakes, steering, suspension, fuel, or electrical wiring systems.

As luck would have it Factory Five is the only kit car company in North America that has made any effort what so ever to work with the Cdn. DOT to come up with an acceptable starter kit and as a result their kits can be legally imported into Canada. Each kit must be submitted to them in Ottawa and is reviewed to ensure that its content complies with starter kit content rules. Upon approval the DOT will issue a letter stating that the Kit is acceptable for Importation.

Once you have the approval letter in hand you are then free to bring the starter kit into the country. In our experience, the best way is to have it trucked in commercially and engage the services of a customs broker. I say this because Canada customs agents are accountable to no one and if you are there in front of them they do not need any excuse at all to detain you and even impound your kit until they decide to release you and your kit, where as with a commercial shipment if they have an issue they deal with your customs broker.

On the subject of customs brokers, you will want to shop around as prices can vary from a few hundred dollars to thousands of dollars for the same service, In addition you want to ensure that the customs broker you choose has dealt with kit cars in the past, not production cars but specifically kit cars as they are a unique commodity coming across the border and present unique challenges with regards to the correct paperwork etc.

So, assuming you have done all of the above, you will only be charged the appropriate taxes for your province - there is not Duty under NAFTA - and voila your starter kit is now a legally imported kit.

As for the deleted parts the best way to deal with those is to purchase them from another company in the US or Canada. With the Factory Five Kits there are established Channels that you can use to procure the deleted parts and the process has been in place for at least 5 years so is well proven.


Al Beix has been importing kit cars through his company Western Canada Cobras - http://www.westerncanadacobras.com - on behalf of Canadian customers for more than 13 years and has successfully imported in excess of 400 cars during that time. The information offered in this article is based on his experiences. There are considerable advantages to having Al import your kit and since his volume allows him to buy from FFR at a discounted price he does not charge you anything for his services. Additionally his long established contacts for freight, brokerage etc. may end up saving you money and will definately reduce the stress over going the do it yourself route.

[AC Bill]

I can attest to the ease of purchasing a FFR from Western Canada Cobra's. Al takes care of all the DOT paper work, transport, insurance, brokerage, etc., basically removing any of the headache aspects one may have.
He has also been great at answering questions regarding the build, questions on accessories, or any other concerns one might have. He can also quickly correct any issues with FFR regarding missing, or damaged parts.
I highly recommend using him.

[RonSchofield]

If you are close enough, then it is a blast to drive down and pick the kit up yourself. I did just that and made a trip out of with a friend and my father. The process wasn't difficult and it was a great part of the build.

I documented ever step and the instructions can be found at:

Importing Factory Five Racing Kit Parts into Canada

Ron

P.S. If there was anybody recently who picked up the kit themselves and brought it into Canada and found different information than what is in the instructions, please PM me so I can keep this up to date. Thank You.

[AC Bill]

Ron, could you explain this a little further, as I'm sure many potential customers would like to know how to do this. It is a quote from a post you made in your blog, in answer to a blog post.

"There are parts that are not allowed to be imported at the same time you bring in the kit, but it's not hard to get them if you want them. And at no additional cost."

Is this relating to the deleted parts? Now, perhaps this is something you prefer to keep under the TC radar, and not publicly post, but will answer via PM's?

[RonSchofield]

It's been so long since I wrote that I am sure that I was trying so say. I know I didn't mean what it sounds like. I edited the comment. I will try to think what I was saying. Must of been a late night working on the car and the fumes got to me. Thanks for bringing it up.

NOTE: At first thought, I think what I was attempting to say was "at little cost when compared to the entire project".

[5speed]

Ron
Just tried to register on your blog and it wouldn't let me. I'm heading down for the factory five open house next month and the info on your blog is going to be extremely helpful.
I see you are in Halifax...are you bringing your type 65 up for the Nationals in Moncton this year?

[sv650s]

Hey 5speed, I am in Oromocto, NB. What is this Nationals you speak of, and where is it? I have never seen a FFR car in person, I"d love to see one. Also a general question, is it possible to import the GTM aswell?

[AC Bill]

You can import them. I'm not sure how many GTM's there are in Canada currently, but there are a few.

[sv650s]

By the time I get mine, I'm sure there well be more. I have to wait somewhere around 3 years before I will be able to order it due to the fact that I am young and dumb, and thought my wallet was bigger then it really was. But I absolutely can't wait to build my own car, it's going to be a blast.

[5speed]

Hey 5speed, I am in Oromocto, NB. What is this Nationals you speak of, and where is it? I have never seen a FFR car in person, I"d love to see one. Also a general question, is it possible to import the GTM aswell?

sv650. Here you go. It is well worth the drive. Great venue and an unbelievable amount of vehicles. http://www.atlanticnationals.com/

[RonSchofield]

Ron
Just tried to register on your blog and it wouldn't let me. I'm heading down for the factory five open house next month and the info on your blog is going to be extremely helpful.
I see you are in Halifax...are you bringing your type 65 up for the Nationals in Moncton this year?

Hi,

There isn't any registration for my blog. Glad the information will be helpful. Sadly, I won't be on the road in time for the open house or the Nationals. I am shooting for next year. If I didn't do so many mods, I would be done by now. If you get down to Halifax, contact me ahead of time and I will be more than welcome to take a look at my coupe.

Ron

[sv650s]

sv650. Here you go. It is well worth the drive. Great venue and an unbelievable amount of vehicles. http://www.atlanticnationals.com/

So is there FFR cars at this show, among other cars aswell.

[5speed]

Hi,

There isn't any registration for my blog. Glad the information will be helpful. Sadly, I won't be on the road in time for the open house or the Nationals. I am shooting for next year. If I didn't do so many mods, I would be done by now. If you get down to Halifax, contact me ahead of time and I will be more than welcome to take a look at my coupe.

Ron

LOL..old habit..clicking on the register icon for websites.
I'd love to see your coupe. I don't get down that way often but if I do I will certainly let you know.

[RonSchofield]

LOL..old habit..clicking on the register icon for websites.
I'd love to see your coupe. I don't get down that way often but if I do I will certainly let you know.

Well when you get your 33, make sure you register on the F5Registry website and add your car there. A link to the registry is in my sig.

[Jay Mann]

I simply emailed Al at Western Canada Cobras, a few phone calls, filled out one simple form and the kit appeared at the freight dock in Edmonton. Al made it completely painless. He has also helped out with advice and providing some optional parts for the 33.

[tcsracing1]

I bought a couple of dump trucks in Florida, and on the way home to Newfoundland I had one dump truck stop at FFR and pick up a CDN kit. FFR arranged for a sling to put in the back of the dump truck.

Nothing wrong with a factory pick up if you can swing it

[cycleguy55]

I just ran across this and thought it best to pass on some of my recent conversation with the SGI (Saskatchewan) folks responsible for 'Vehicle Standards and Inspections'. They're pretty strict in Saskatchewan about following TC's rules as far as various components such as brakes, suspension, drivetrain, etc. IOW, they will require anyone attempting to register a car to provide receipts from Canadian suppliers for such components. I fully understand many of these components are available outside Canada for less $$, but they don't care - if you can't prove you bought it in Canada they'll reject it. I was even told of a recent situation where the owner was given 30 days to export it or scrap it. Pretty harsh. Caveat emptor.

Ron, could you explain this a little further, as I'm sure many potential customers would like to know how to do this. It is a quote from a post you made in your blog, in answer to a blog post.

"There are parts that are not allowed to be imported at the same time you bring in the kit, but it's not hard to get them if you want them. And at no additional cost."

Is this relating to the deleted parts? Now, perhaps this is something you prefer to keep under the TC radar, and not publicly post, but will answer via PM's?

[Jester]

Deleted

[Scotty's65]

I picked mine up and had no issue at the border because I had all my t's crossed and i's dotted with the help of F5, I also have a few acquaintances who had Al import for them and it went very well, he is a solid citizen.
I think what he was trying to say was that the "Canadian" kits don't include certain parts because that would make your kit too much like a complete car and that isn't allowed. Basically we aren't importing a "kit car" we are importing "car parts"

Scott

[AC Bill]

That's the issue relating to deleted parts. DOT has worked that all out with FFR.

FFR unfortunately, don't compensate CND customers, for components they have to leave out. You'd think that would only be fair. Perhaps include an option at no charge instead. Set of wind wings, or?

[valin]

That is not entirely true. FFR removes the parts that Transport Canada does not allow us to import with the kit, and charges accordingly. If you were to price out a complete car, and then price out a Canadian kit with all parts to form a complete car, the price is the same. The only difference would be the additional shipping charges for the components not included with the kit.

[Dave Howard]

That is not entirely true. FFR removes the parts that Transport Canada does not allow us to import with the kit, and charges accordingly. If you were to price out a complete car, and then price out a Canadian kit with all parts to form a complete car, the price is the same. The only difference would be the additional shipping charges for the components not included with the kit.

And those shipping costs add up. Especially for specialty items from suppliers like Jegs or Summit Racing. Even the shipping from FFR has kept me from pyrchasing small items from them. When the shipping costs more than the item being shipped, "I say nay nay".

I agree with Ryan on the price of the Canadian Kit and the Candian Completion Kit being the same as the US Complete Kit. I did a comparison in 2012 and determined the same thing. If you want to save a few $$, consider taking a couple of days to drive to Wareham and pick up your kit at the FFR facility. Well worth the experience.

[valin]

Dave, if you need any items in the future, let me know. I have regular shipments from FFR coming in, and can group your items in with the other customer orders. I will also be heading down to FFR sometime over the next couple of months to pick up an 818, so I could bring some stuff back at that time as well.

[AC Bill]

When I purchased my FFR, they only had a base kit available. FFR still had to remove some items from that base kit, to be able to comply with Canada Transport reg's, regarding replicas/kit cars. Even the base kit had to many parts to meet the standards. The cost was exactly the same for us, as for US buyers, but US buyers got all the parts, where we didn't. There was no discount for the parts missing, or any compensation in the way of an option. We had to make up for the deleted items, out of our own pockets.

From what I recall, you were not supposed to purchase any of the deleted items, directly from FFR. You had to use a completely separate supplier for them..

[Dave Howard]

From what I recall, you were not supposed to purchase any of the deleted items, directly from FFR. You had to use a completely separate supplier for them..

This is still the case. There are a couple of US 3RD party venders who sell the completion kits. Parts actual come from FFR but routed through a different vender. Also, Canadian builders can get those completion kits through a Canadian vender. Contact Ryan at Valin's Custom Cars for details. Details are above.

[FatBear]

Once built how do you get a VIN?

[David Williamson]

The VIN is assigned by the province so the process is different in eacn case. There are FFR cars in every province, Alberta where I live is easy.
Do a search or post on the Canadian part of the site with your location and we will help you out
David W

[OttawaFFRer]

Once built how do you get a VIN?

In Ontario it was as simple as bringing all my paperwork from FFR, TC, a safety check and insurance info and they printed me out an ownership with a VIN they created based on kit cars with the addition of numbers I could specify, I used my build number.

There was no tax.


Victor

[FF33rod]

Once built how do you get a VIN?

In BC, everything goes through ICBC of course. Applying for and getting a VIN is the first step, then you need a safety inspection and official weight to get registration and insurance.
VIN process is outlined here https://www.icbc.com/vehicle-registr...%28VIN%29.aspx

Here's a list of the documents that were needed for the VIN application.

• Certificate of Origin
• Main FFR Invoice
• Canadian completion invoice (has the rear end on it)
• CBSA invoice for main kit
• Engine invoice
• transmission invoice
• wheels and tires invoice
• Transport Canada permission to import letter

Attach those to the completed MV1325 form along with the 4 requested pics and a $25 cheque

Steve

[Terry D]

Hey guys, I know this thread is old but hoping someone here on Vancouver Island still takes a look once in awhile.
I have my MKIV ordered, completion parts and Engine ordered, hoping to see everything here in Victoria early Oct. so I have time to change items on the order. I was wondering if a heater defroster was required for the inspection and if anyone knows of a place that is familiar with these for the inspection. Thanks in advance for any info

Terry

[glastron351]

Hi Terry D - I'm out east in Manitoba and out here a heater/defroster is required to defrost front windows, however there is a caveat that states open cockpit vehicles do not need one. Essentially you are at the mercy of the interpretation of your inspector. I installed one and have actually had to use the defroster a couple of times and yes it does make a difference.
Probably not the clear answer you are looking for but just thought I'd throw it out there.

[Terry D]

Great to know, thanks for the info.