Papa's MKIV Roadster Build - #9115 (Post Grad) - One million + views!!!

[johnnybgoode]

Looks great! FWIW I have had very good luck with this water neck from BS. Scott

https://www.billetspecialties.com/St...ostat-housing/

[Mike.Bray]

Looks great! FWIW I have had very good luck with this water neck from BS. Scott

https://www.billetspecialties.com/St...ostat-housing/

If it's steel it's going to be cast which opens all sorts of potential quality issues right there. If a cast housing is chrome plated it's probably going to have hydrogen embrittlement which is why so many of them end up leaking. Not sure about powder coating, I don't think the baking process is high enough temperature or time to do any stress relieving. It seems like every time I've tried a cast housing it's been a bear to get it sealed. Got tired of fighting and went to billet housings with a nice flat surface and an O-ring. Never had a problem with them.

[Papa]

If it's steel it's going to be cast which opens all sorts of potential quality issues right there. If a cast housing is chrome plated it's probably going to have hydrogen embrittlement which is why so many of them end up leaking. Not sure about powder coating, I don't think the baking process is high enough temperature or time to do any stress relieving. It seems like every time I've tried a cast housing it's been a bear to get it sealed. Got tired of fighting and went to billet housings with a nice flat surface and an O-ring. Never had a problem with them.

These are the covers I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I put a straight edge on the passenger side lat time I had it off and it appears to be perfectly machined. There may still be a little interference that I need to deal with, which I'll check when I pull it off again.

[Mike.Bray]

These are the covers I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I put a straight edge on the passenger side lat time I had it off and it appears to be perfectly machined. There may still be a little interference that I need to deal with, which I'll check when I pull it off again.

Sorry, I should have been more clear I was talking about the thermostat housing. My bad

[Papa]

I finally resolved the valve cover leak and got the car on the road for the first time today since installing the stacks. It runs pretty good considering it's just using the default fuel map right now. The throttle response is noticeably improved over the TBI (Sniper) setup. Next step is to schedule time with the tuner and really get it dialed in. The other key difference is NO decel popping!

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/NLk3uhj-AyU

[Papa]

This morning my wife and I headed out for a little ride. She took some cellphone video. Not great video quality, but it will give you an idea of how it's running. I'm very happy with the improvements over my TBI setup. Can't wait to see what the tuner is able to do with it.

[Papa]

Now that the car is back on the road, I thought I'd take a little time to recap the swap from the Sniper to the stacks. This was a big project for a guy that doesn't do engine work, but again, with the help of so many selfless people that are always willing to share their time and knowledge, I was able to do this in my garage.

This all started with gradually degrading drivability that started with the car dying for no apparent reason while just cruising down the road. I hired a guy to look at the Sniper's tuning via a remote tuning session. As he was fighting with symptoms that didn't make any sense, he asked me to put a pressure gauge on the inlet and check the pressure. I did that and found that the gauge was maxed out at 100 psi. Well, that indicated that the pressure regulator in the Sniper wasn't regulating the pressure to the required 58psi. I ordered a new regulator and installed it and the pressure was back to the 58psi it should have been. Then, the fuel pump began making a lot of noise and the car became virtually undrivable due to what felt like fuel starvation. I assumed the pump was failing, so it was time to dig in and figure out what was happening.

When I dropped the tank to pull the fuel pump, I found that the inlet to the pump was completely clogged with fine black particles. A look in the tank revealed that the fuel was contaminated with black particles. At this point, I decided to replace the entire fuel system; tank, pump, lines, filter, everything. It was at this point that I thought I'd really like to go to a MPFI setup as I always had issues with the Sniper fouling plugs and just running poorly for no apparent reason. It was time for a change, and I looked at a couple of MPFI systems before calling Jim Inglese and having a good discussion on stack EFI options. Ultimately, I opted to take the plunge and placed an order with Jim for the "works". I wanted everything to be replaced with parts that Jim knew would work well together. Shortly after that call, parts started arriving from Holley and then the big box from Jim came! I waited several more weeks on the ECU, a Terminator X kit to ship from Holley. After waiting more than I wanted, I started conversing with another forum member that was also waiting for the ECU. After that discussion, I started looking at the kit part numbers and found a different kit that was identical to what Jim ordered with the exception of the injector harness. Well, neither kit contained the correct injector harness and Jim had shipped the proper one. When I called Jim, he told me that if I could get the kit that I'd identified, he'd refund the price of the kit he had ordered from Holley. That worked out perfectly and I had the ECU in a couple of days from Summit Racing.

For the next couple of weeks, I read through the documentation for all the components, laid everything out, changed a couple of connectors that Jim sent to mate with the sensors Jim uses, and tried to get the courage to dismantle the top of my engine. I finally found that courage and removed the Sniper, distributor, coil, valve covers, and intake. I reached out to a neighbor that races and has several fantastic cars that he built to give me a little help installing the new intake. My biggest fear was that it would leak, and I wanted advice on how to prevent that. When the day came to install the new intake, we had dry fitted everything and were ready to go. He uses a product called Hondabond to seal the water jackets on both sides of the gaskets. We then used the same sealant on the china walls, tossing the cork gaskets in the trash. We set the intake in place and started dropping in the ARP bolts only to realize that there was no way to get the four center bolts in due to the way the intake is machined for the throttle bodies. I was going to need to use studs. So, everything came back off and got cleaned up. I ordered a new gasket set and a set of ARP intake studs. When the studs showed up, I installed them and dry fit the intake only to find that the four in the center were too long and kept the intake from sitting fully into place. McMaster-Carr to the rescue with some shorter studs and I was ready to try the install again. This time, it went fine and the intake was in place. Next came a lot of wiring for the Terminator X, CDI, and coil as well as some new spark plug wires. Finally, I installed the valve covers and filled the radiator and was ready to try to start the car.

I worked through the setup wizard and made changes for the specific sensors that Jim's assembly came fitted with. Moment of truth ... turned the key and it started, but was popping and shaking, so I shut it down. My only thought was that I was off on the distributor, so I pulled it and went back through the install procedure until I felt it was right. I turned the key again and she came to life. I let it warm up and noticed that I was leaking coolant from the water neck, so I shut it down. At this point, I tried multiple times to get the chrome water neck to seal and couldn't. Following the advice of many helpful builders, I bought a cast Ford water neck. I drilled and tapped the port for the coolant temp sensor, but that didn't go as planned and I basically ruined the part. I bought another one and decided I wasn't going to take a chance at ruining another $90 part and I relocated the CTS to the heater port in the manifold. Coolant leak solved.

I fired up the car again and started to synchronize the stacks using the synchrometer that Jim provided. As I was going from side to side, I noticed oil leaking on the rear passenger side and panicked! I was sure the intake wasn't sealed, and I'd have to pull it all apart again. After the engine cooled and I started cleaning up the oil, I was able to see that the intake was dry and found the leak coming from the valve cover. I pulled the cover, cleaned everything up, and reinstalled it. When I fired the car up again, the leak was still there. As I investigated further, I found that the valve cover was hitting part of the intake where the throttle bodies mount. I got out the carbide tip on my die grinder, covered up the rockers and proceeded to remove enough material to allow the valve cover to seat properly. When I was done, I cleaned up any signs of metal that found its way to the rockers and then reinstalled the valve cover and fired up the car. No more leak!!!

The car came off the lift for the first time in almost two months and went for a short drive around the block. It seemed to run pretty well and after the short drive, I pulled back into the shop for one last leak check. The CTS had a small drop of coolant at the threads. I tightened up the fitting and think that is resolved but will keep a close eye on it.

Today was the first real drive since installing all the new stuff, and I couldn't be happier with how it ran. I didn't push it but drove for over an hour and had absolutely no issues. Again, I can't say thank you enough to the guys on this forum, my neighbor, and Jim Inglese for helping me pull this off and get the performance and look I'd always wanted for this car. I have a small car show that I'll be attending next weekend for a charity event, so I'll get to hear what others think about it. I expect to be grinning ear-to-ear the entire time.

[bobl]

Congratulations! Looks awesome.

[mburger]

What a great write up Dave. I have always wanted stacks but it was too cost prohibitive for me. You did everything I’ve been wanting to do including going with Jim. Your setup looks fantastic! Thanks for sharing your experience and taking us all with you on this conversion. Good luck at the benefit show. I think your Cobra will have a small crowd around it all day.

[Railroad]

Do the stacks offer some form of air filtration? Love the look, great write up.

[Papa]

Do the stacks offer some form of air filtration? Love the look, great write up.

I ordered a set of BBR Filters from Jim along with the rest of the parts.



These can be removed in seconds for a show and reinstalled before heading back out on the road.

[nucjd19]

Great write up Dave! And your engine is just stunning! In hindsight what is your opinion of the sniper and the 347 stroker. I have the same engine and transmission combo as you but went carb. Been really happy with my carb set up but as the years go on I might have to swap over to efi for a multitude of reasons. Your engine bay is just gorgeous!

[Papa]

Great write up Dave! And your engine is just stunning! In hindsight what is your opinion of the sniper and the 347 stroker. I have the same engine and transmission combo as you but went carb. Been really happy with my carb set up but as the years go on I might have to swap over to efi for a multitude of reasons. yule engine bay is just gorgeous!

I don't want to sour people on the Sniper as it is a very good setup that should work for most people. My issues were that I could never fully eliminate the deceleration popping that if I were 18 years old, may have been fun. At 57 years old, it drove me crazy. I know that the system could be tuned, but after spending several hundred dollars on tuner support and not seeing any real improvement, I was resigned to just deal with the issues. It did work well otherwise up until the regulator and fuel contamination problems, only one was a Sniper issue. Even with the issues I was having with the Sniper, it was way better than the carbureted car I had before the Cobra; my 1970 El Camino. That car wouldn't idle when cold and fogged the garage. Again, I'm sure it could be tuned, but I didn't have the skills to do it. I didn't even consider a carb on the Cobra.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've been following along Dave and as usual your no shortcuts, systematic approach and attention to detail are outstanding! The engine bay looks awesome and it sounds like you are more than pleased with the end result...win, win all the way around

Enjoy the drives!

Jeff

[BRRT]

Absolutely beautiful!

If it runs half as good as it looks it will SCREAM!

------------
Jeff

[GTBradley]

I’ve never fully understood those screens used on stacks. It looks like they wouldn’t filter dust and are only for say, racing. What am I missing here?

Nice work, by the way! That’s one good looking engine bay.

[Papa]

I’ve never fully understood those screens used on stacks. It looks like they wouldn’t filter dust and are only for say, racing. What am I missing here?

Nice work, by the way! That’s one good looking engine bay.

Bradley,

It's more about the large debris that I don't want sucked into the heads! All this gravel stuff Colorado puts down on the roads gets kicked up while driving. My air gap intake had quite a bit of it resting under the runners when I pulled it off. There are two types of covers for the stacks. Screens, which have no filter element at all, and the filter/screens that I went with that do have a very fine filter behind the screen. Definitely not going to keep dust out, but better than nothing.

Dave

[GTBradley]

Ah, didn’t see that, thanks.

It looks like you are ready for the 1965 24 Hours of Le Mans.

[mburger]

Dave, I really like the low profile breather. Would you mind sharing the part number or brand?
Also, those are the polished valve covers and not the chrome correct?
Again, what a great engine bay and the rest of the car ain’t too shabby either!

[Papa]

Dave, I really like the low profile breather. Would you mind sharing the part number or brand?
Also, those are the polished valve covers and not the chrome correct?
Again, what a great engine bay and the rest of the car ain’t too shabby either!

Mark,

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, the valve covers are polished aluminum. The breather and oil-fill cap are from Billet Specialties.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[mburger]

Mark,

Thanks for the kind words. Yes, the valve covers are polished aluminum. The breather and oil-fill cap are from Billet Specialties.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Thank you!
I’ve been looking for a decent looking low profile breather because my AC line runs over that area.

[Papa]

Went to a small charity car show today. I had lots of comments on the car in spite of the heat.

[EZ$]

Dave, the car was stunning before the addition of the stacks! Now it's just ridiculous. Fantastic job getting it all set up and working great.

[Papa]

I'm going to the tuner today! He expects to be done by this afternoon and said he'd give me a call before he wraps up the dyno work so I can come get some video. I am optimistic and excited to see what he is able to do.

[Nigel Allen]

Good luck. Hope it goes really well for you.

[Papa]

Here is one of the pulls ...



After this pull, we did a road test/tune and he tuned while I drove. The end result is a very well-behaved and drivable car.

[mburger]

Are you happy with the numbers and how it feels?

[Papa]

Are you happy with the numbers and how it feels?

The numbers are right about where I expected them based on my calculations about a year ago. BPE made 438 at the flywheel at ~1200 ft. elevation. I assumed somewhere around 325 at the wheels at 6,000 ft. It was also very hot today with virtually no humidity. Check out the Mile High Nationals and see what the pros were saying about the struggle to make power. The more important aspect is drivability, and it has that at all RPM ranges and idles at 800 RPM with a nice little lope. It still jumps when you get on it and is smooth both accelerating and decelerating. I'm very happy with how it runs.

[bobl]

Those numbers are corrected to sea level, it shows a correction factor of 25-26%, which is probably about right for your altitude. It's just about impossible to compare numbers from that altitude to sea level. Blue Print numbers are corrected to sea level, but probably not using the same SAE correction factor (and they do not test it with accessories or mufflers). But the bottom line is they got it tuned right for your altitude, so it was money well spent. Go drive it!

[Papa]

Those numbers are corrected to sea level, it shows a correction factor of 25-26%, which is probably about right for your altitude. It's just about impossible to compare numbers from that altitude to sea level. Blue Print numbers are corrected to sea level, but probably not using the same SAE correction factor (and they do not test it with accessories or mufflers). But the bottom line is they got it tuned right for your altitude, so it was money well spent. Go drive it!

Bob,

Sorry I wasn't able to get numbers without the filters for you. He did the pull I recorded just so that I could get video. It was really interesting having him make adjustments in real time while I was driving. I could easily feel what was working and what wasn't. The tuner also said if I need any adjustments, he'll make them at no additional charge. Great guy and he knows his stuff on Holley EFI!

[nucjd19]

Huge congrats Dave!!! I know you are relieved and proud (You should be. It is just beautiful). You have given me my next big project for my Roadster. I will be bugging you down the road about specifics. As an aside your paint is just stunning. I am curious your impression and review of the ceramic coat that you did on it.

[Papa]

Huge congrats Dave!!! I know you are relieved and proud (You should be. It is just beautiful). You have given me my next big project for my Roadster. I will be bugging you down the road about specifics. As an aside your paint is just stunning. I am curious your impression and review of the ceramic coat that you did on it.

Thank you! I'd be more than happy to answer any questions. On the ceramic coat, the guy that did my car really brought the paint to life. He's very good, but definitely comes at a price. He spent two full days on my car. The paint really shows the depth. Well worth the money spent.

[LateApex]

I am having MAP sensor issues I believe. I get a steady 85 kPa, which is atmospheric pressure at my elevation, with key on, engine off. It does not move from there under any test run. Also reflected in Terminator X logging. It is burning super rich, which talks to a basic disagreement between MAP and TPS sensors (or so it might seem). I am wondering if anyone else has had this problem.

I have swapped out the sensor, same problem. The wiring is simple: 12V, Ground and Signal. And per Inglese's pinout, I believe I have hooked the 3 pins up correctly. I have ohm'd out 12V and ground between this connector and the TPS connector, which shares those same wires (per RF schematic).

I am about to buy and insert a new connector, on the off chance that one of the pins is munged up or some such. It is interesting that the pressure reading is correct initially, but that it does not vary as it should under throttle. How could the Terminator X read a correct value key-on, engine-off, and not vary after the engine is fired up, and the problem not be sensor related, which it isn't under trial by substitution?

MAP is configured as "Internal 1-bar" with no offset in my Term-X global config file. The sensor is a Delphi PS10000.

If chasing electrics provides no joy, next step would be to removed the intake manifold and see if the sensor port is somehow blocked .... This is an eight-stack, and so I am now wondering exactly how manifold pressure is sensed. Hmmmm ...

[Papa]

I am having MAP sensor issues I believe. I get a steady 85 kPa, which is atmospheric pressure at my elevation, with key on, engine off. It does not move from there under any test run. Also reflected in Terminator X logging. It is burning super rich, which talks to a basic disagreement between MAP and TPS sensors (or so it might seem). I am wondering if anyone else has had this problem.

I have swapped out the sensor, same problem. The wiring is simple: 12V, Ground and Signal. And per Inglese's pinout, I believe I have hooked the 3 pins up correctly. I have ohm'd out 12V and ground between this connector and the TPS connector, which shares those same wires (per RF schematic).

I am about to buy and insert a new connector, on the off chance that one of the pins is munged up or some such. It is interesting that the pressure reading is correct initially, but that it does not vary as it should under throttle. How could the Terminator X read a correct value key-on, engine-off, and not vary after the engine is fired up, and the problem not be sensor related, which it isn't under trial by substitution?

MAP is configured as "Internal 1-bar" with no offset in my Term-X global config file. The sensor is a Delphi PS10000.

If chasing electrics provides no joy, next step would be to removed the intake manifold and see if the sensor port is somehow blocked .... This is an eight-stack, and so I am now wondering exactly how manifold pressure is sensed. Hmmmm ...

The internal MAP is for the Terminator's built-in MAP using the blue vacuum tube on the ECU. That's what I'm using. Just connect a piece of vacuum tubing from the barb on the intake manifold to the blue tubing and you should be good. If you want to use the sensor Jim included, you need to select it and configure it in the Terminator software.

Dave

[LateApex]

That explains the reading then.

Now to figure out what the setting must be to support the MAP included ...

Thank you Sir!

[Papa]

That explains the reading then.

Now to figure out what the setting must be to support the MAP included ...

Thank you Sir!

Jim's setup instructions say to use GM LSX for the MAP sensor he provides.

Dave

[LateApex]

I don't know how I missed that ...

It actually runs quite well now :-)

Thanks Dave!

[Papa]

Well, it seems that my thermostat housing is leaking again. I'm considering trying one of these:



Does anyone have any experience with them? Any other tricks to get a leak-free seal would be helpful. I've tried three different gaskets, three different types of sealer, all with no luck.

[Jessew]

Never on a ford motor, but anytime I use one on a SBC no problems. No sealant and multiple installs and removals.

[Papa]

Never on a ford motor, but anytime I use one on a SBC no problems. No sealant and multiple installs and removals.

Thanks. Sounds like it's worth a try.