Before or After, which is which??

[Hankl]

[riptide motorsport]

after.,then before

[Daytona Dan]

Looking good Hank! Can't wait to do that to mine over the next couple months. We got 6 inches of snow in Southern CT yesterday but before we know it the season will be upon us. Happy Chinese New Year to you...Confucius says the year of the Dragon is the year your coupe hits the track!

[John Dol]

Great side impact work Hank. I also like how you have improved the seating position from the previous set up!

John

[Hankl]

Well, This is "Before",



And This is "After"



Most of you will say, Has Hank finally gotten out of his Jacket??

Well, Yes and No. I know that Dan knows that my Coupe has evolved into a Track only weapon, and as such is being built to a very high safety standard. I've been working with Karen, yes, the "Infamous Karen" from 25 hour fame, and there is a movement to build several Coupes to a full race standard, with NASA/SCCA approved modifications. Mine is one of the pilot cars, with two others being built, also in Northern California, there are several others around the country, also following the same pattern as well. The one problem we did encounter, was my cage was particular to the IRS Coupe, and the two other Coupes here are 3 Link. My focus is to build a cage that meets the necessary standards, and fits any of the different suspension configurations. We want to keep the "Coupe Family", and the rest of those interested in following this type of path, informed, so they can also do similar mods, and maintain the needed safety standards. Next week you'll see more pictures........

Hank

[Jacob McCrea]

Hank,

I look forward to seeing what is going on with the door bars. How to do them per the rules sure seems like a long-running source of consternation among builders. For my part, I'm returning to building after about a 2-month hiatus - due to work and taking advantage of some warm weather. I'm looking forward to the new design.

[riptide motorsport]

It look great but I think you might want to lower the seat!!!!

[rocket]

Hank,
When I said I was looking for "head" room, I didn't mean "out the roof"!! I'm ready to start making sparks.... you bring the pipe and I'll supply the 220v.
Rick

[Hankl]

you bring the pipe and I'll supply the 220v.
Rick

You better have tubing there........Sparkey!


Hank

[jkrueger]

Excellent thread. I am going to make my coupe NASA track legal as well. I get the kit may 5th so I am very interested in what you guys come up with. I have the 3-Link and ordered a bare frame so the frame mods are first on my list of things to do.

JC

[Daytona Dan]

Hey Hank,

My car just went up on the lift and, as we have discussed, it is about to undergo some major surgery in preparation for the 2012 Northeast trackday season (engine rebuild, full brake upgrade, door bars, possible but unlikely standard width IRS conversion and shock mount relocate). I am going to meet up with a very experienced cage welder later this week to look at the door bar project and I'd love to share your plans with him.

Do you have any plans or sketches documented for the NASA/SCCA compliant door bars that you are intending to weld up? My goal is to get NASA licensed in April so that I can run unmuffled test/tune sessions at Limerock so I want to be sure I get the doorbars done up to race spec. Also, if you can document the location of the upper shock mount relocation point that would be helpful. I may not spend the $$ on that this season but while under the torch I figure I should go ahead and add the mounts for future potential use.

Thanks again!

Dan

[johnmdanskin]

I would personally call the old bars excessive (weight, weight, weight), but how were they not legal? All scca asks for is two bars, with an X acceptable. Circle-track guys have bars like your originals, but then they cover them with steel plate just in case.

Dan: I didn't realize you could run t/t sessions at lime rock if you are nasa licensed. Do you and your car both have to be licensed for racing? Or just your car.

I just had my new engine in the car getting all plugged in, but then I luckily realized that my throw-out bearing was too tall. I'm almost ready to put it all back into the car again. I hope it stays this time. I should easily be on track at the beginning of April.

[Daytona Dan]

Hey John,

Here's a couple links to the LRP T&T information...drivers need to be licensed and in an SCCA compliant vehicle. Sounds like 5 hours of UNMUFFLED open track for $250, but with alternating 20 minute sessions between open wheel and closed wheel cars.

http://www.limerock.com/index.php?op...d=59&Itemid=76
http://www.limerock.com/images/stori...estAndTune.pdf

Glad to hear you'll be back out early in the season. Let's compare notes on the event scheduling...will send you an email.

Dan

[Hankl]

Dan,

I'll be working on the newer mounts this next week, I'll send you pictures and dimensions.

I would personally call the old bars excessive (weight, weight, weight), but how were they not legal? All scca asks for is two bars, with an X acceptable.

John,

You need to appreciate the location and requirements of the materials required for a NASA/SCCA cage. We don't get to pick and choose what requirement we'll comply with, rather, we need to comply with the strictest build requirement we can fit into. You need to understand that these cars do not fit in what you would call an "Accepted" class. We sometimes get dumped into "Super Production", GT1 or GT2 depending on the local determination(engine, weight, number of cars, etc....), so we have to show up with a car that meets all of the requirements, and NASA can be a bit better to deal with than the SCCA, so again, we have to cover all the bases, so that when we show up, we're not DQ'd for something that works for one, but doesn't for the other. You also have to consider that the cage in my Coupe is an evolution of sorts, I'm the "Test Mule" for four other Coupes that are being build as strictly track cars. We have learned some very good lessons from all of the experience that Andy and Karen Salvaggio have acquired in the last 5 years, and we're applying that to these Coupes. So stay tuned, there is more to come, and it will be finalized shortly.

Hank

[johnmdanskin]

I can't tell exactly what scca wants for super-touring class. My side-door X might not be enough. Your vertical bars were beyond the call of the rules (but hey, it's safety).

For nasa: Coupe is approved for ST1 in nasa rules. NASA's generic cage rules have a simple X at the door. There are no additional cage specs for ST1
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/ccr.pdf
http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Super-Touring.pdf

Of course things are different when you are building a test for 10 other cars, and you've always gone for "solid" as far as I can tell, while I've been going for light whenever I can. I'll see how that works for me, but for now, last time I weighed my car it was 2166# full of fuel (without me). It'll be around 2200# with me in it. It'll be fun to see how the car works light.

I'm not thinking about actually racing the car in 2012. I have another race car that I didn't spend almost every weekend and every night and some vacations for 2+ years building...

I do love looking at your stuff!
john

[jkrueger]

I've also looked through the NASA rules and only find roll cage info for ST1 in the general rules. It says you need two bars for the doors and uses and "x" as an example, but I would guess that 2 bars in another configuration would be legal as well. A NASCAR door bar or something like these pictures should be legal as well.





Another bar to protect your upper body would be better, but this looks like it follows the rules.

JC

[johnmdanskin]

This shows my Xs.

The seat isn't in this pic, but the seat is on the floor. It's pretty hard to get into and out of the car. I'm thin, but much higher and I'd call the bar a safety problem. I wouldn't want to take a hefty student out on the track..

[Daytona Dan]

John, based on your math a couple posts ago it sounds as though you are nearly non-existent! You must have meant 2,300+ pounds? BTW, my IRS coupe is 2,725 with me and fuel in it...I am weighing in around 190 these days but obviously my car is a bit chunkier than your 3-link.

[johnmdanskin]

John, based on your math a couple posts ago it sounds as though you are nearly non-existent! You must have meant 2,300+ pounds? BTW, my IRS coupe is 2,725 with me and fuel in it...I am weighing in around 190 these days but obviously my car is a bit chunkier than your 3-link.

Oops. Right. I don't weigh 55 pounds. I weigh about 150, and say 10# of stuff gives me 2166#+160#=2326#

2525# without you is about what the coupe is supposed to weigh. They used to say 2300#. I'm not sure how I'm missing 300# unless the scales were wrong, but a lot of racers would be pissed if the scales were >10% wrong. I know that I have a large pile of f5 parts that didn't go in the car and some of the parts that did go in the car were lighter than normal. My transmission is about 30# light. Lexan window saves a little. The large pile of unused aluminum doesn't figure. I don't have any extra wires which could be 10-20#. It isn't 300#. I'll have to weigh it again when I get a chance.

[Jacob McCrea]

For what it's worth, I was initially planning to do an "X," with one of the bars running roughly parallel to JC's left arm in the photo above - basically the same as John's design, but with the rear upper cross bar meeting the rear loop a little higher. The idea was to keep it simple and avoid adding an additional bulkhead to the rear frame area, and avoid having to cut into the fiberglass inner fender (my biggest concern as it might be hard to seal and I am trying to keep 'glass mods to a minimum). However, to make it work (without cutting 'glass) I would have had to make the "rear upper" X bar removable with the Ballistic Fab connectors I've mentioned in my frame mods thread (and also remember to orient them so that the bolts would not shear upon impact). The reason is that the body wouldn't fit over the upper X bar without making the bar removable.

I still like the "X" design John has done a great deal - it is simple, comparatively easy to install, and would seem to allow decent ingress & egress. But, with an "X," what I respectfully think is missing is a structure that prevents something from entering the car at the driver's left hip/lower left back area. Hank's earlier design offered great protection at the rear wheel area, and the multiple Nascar-style uprights likely add a lot of protection and stiffness with a minimal amount of extra weight. I should add that I am neither an engineer nor a long-time race car builder, so my views may be off base. In any event, I look forward to seeing Hank's new design.

As for saving weight, I have something cool in store for removing some of the weight that my frame mods have added. The recipe involves 99% isoprpyl alcohol, glass beads and Bon Ami cleanser, among other things. Hopefully I'll be able to post some photos in the coming month.

[johnmdanskin]

... and avoid having to cut into the fiberglass inner fender...

I still like the "X" design John has done a great deal - it is simple, comparatively easy to install, and would seem to allow decent ingress & egress. But, with an "X," what I respectfully think is missing is a structure that prevents something from entering the car at the driver's left hip/lower left back area. ...
.

Hi Jacob:

I have huge ugly holes in my fiberglass... As Daytona Dan said once: Mad Max.


I agree that it would be nice to have another bar behind my lower back. It's a hard 3d bend and I got tired of cutting and welding and bending. I'm determined to do it all myself, but I'm not actually good at it... This bar is on the list for next winter. On the flip side, where did this object hitting my back come from? It's got to get through the wheel well and there isn't all that much room for it to fit through all the bars near there. I still agree that it would be a good idea.