The race is on - Namrups 65 Daytona Coupe build

[maclonchas]

Thanks

[Namrups]

A/C install continued

I used the Mastercool A/C manual hose crimper for the first time.


It comes with 4 different size clamps. The install will use three of the four. Die sets #6,8 and 10



I used this Klein Tools wire cutter (#63050) to cut the hoses. Worked great.


A couple of posts back I noted that the bottom fitting on the manifold did not line up with the fitting on the A/C unit and it was hitting the brace. My solution was to insert a tapered punch and apply a small amount of pressure to slightly bend the fitting. This very small bend allowed it to align better and the fitting no longer hit the brace. The key here is very slight pressure.

[Namrups]

I had read in other posts that the hose will lengthen when crimped. For a longer hose that isn't really an issue but for these two very short hoses it is. On a practice piece I inserted the hose all the way into the fitting. A full 1 1/4". I marked the hose and then crimped it. As you can see the crimping pushes the hose out around a total of 1/8" overall. Keep that in mine when measuring these short hoses.


As these short hoses do not bend real well I found that by loosening the manifold fitting I could bend the hose enough to get it connected. Then I tightened manifold and then the fitting.


Finished product. Now to take it apart again to apply the heat/sound barrier to the aluminum panel.

[Namrups]

Day 196

AC drain tube installed.


Drier installed. Hose from manifold to drier and from drier to condenser installed.




Heater hoses from AC unit to manifold installed.

[Namrups]

Front face aluminum on PS footbox installed along with the AC hose from AC unit to the compressor.


Heater valve installed.


PS footbox complete with both AC and heater manifolds and hoses installed.


The hose from the compressor to the condenser is 6" too short. Ordered a new hose. With this set-up I will have to loop the hose over the top of the hose from the AC unit. Not pleased about it but I don't see any other way.


I won't try to charge the AC system until the spring. After I see that there are no leaks I will insulate the hoses in the PS footbox. The wiring and under dash hoses still need to be installed.

[David Williamson]

Too late for your build but.... I used a mid mount bracket set that locates the AC compressor under the alternator. This reduces the hose length and I think is a neater system.
Yours is an awsome build and really well documented.
David W

[Namrups]

Too late for your build but.... I used a mid mount bracket set that locates the AC compressor under the alternator. This reduces the hose length and I think is a neater system.
Yours is an awsome build and really well documented.
David W

David, Thanks for your reply and support. Being a first time builder I am finding that there are a number of things I would do differently if I were to do it again. Even though your suggestion may not help me, continue to comment if you see something as it will help future builders!

[Namrups]

It's been just shy of 7 months since I took delivery. I decided to do a short 7 minute walk around explaining where things sit at the moment. Other posts have been talking about the shape there body is in so I added views of my body at the end of the video. Enjoy.

[Namrups]

As mentioned in my previous video, I am installing the wiring for the Vintage Air heater/A-C unit. I have figured out everything except one blue wire coming off the trinary switch. Any help would be appreciated!

Background: I have the FF supplied Vintage Air A/C unit. I am running the Sniper EFI. The Sniper controls the fan.

The FF installation wiring diagram (shown below) shows the blue wire coming off the trinary switch attaching to the green fan thermo relay in the RT harness.


The Sniper documentation (shown below) shows two optional leads. One marked "Connect to a ground triggered A/C relay" and the other marked "Connect to ground side trigger of A/C shutdown relay"


So should I connect the blue wire from the trinary switch to the fan relay as shown in the FF documentation or to one of the wires from the Sniper? If the Sniper then which one?

Thanks in advance for any and all replies!

Scott

[edwardb]

Nice video and great progress. Your body does look excellent. You'll likely uncover some voids or whatever when that flashing is ground down on the parting lines. But in general you're right. Looks decent. As for the voids around that are behind the windows, yours looks great. Mine was kind of a mess in that area. So have some others that have been posted. I don't have an explanation for the variability. One other random comment. I see you have your GPS antenna mounted up on the roll bar. It's maybe fine there if that's what you want. But does seem like it's at an angle rather than flat pointed at the sky. Mine works just fine under the dash. My build thread shows where I mounted it. It's flat to the sky, acquires quickly, and has been rock solid. Plus it's out of sight.

For your A/C wiring I can only give a semi-educated answer based on my experience wiring A/C with a Coyote and LS. Which were exactly the same. In my case, the two installations had control packs with +12V fan wires for the cooling fan. So the PCM in both cases powered the fan based on engine temp. Same as how a non-A/C build would be wired with those engines. Then there was a second circuit using the RF fan circuit with the ground wire attached to the trinary switch per the diagram you posted. When the trinary switch closed to ground, the attached RF fan thermo wire would activate the RF fan circuit and power the fan. Just to confirm, the trinary switch shuts off the A/C compressor if pressures are too low or too high. Hence the connections to the compressor. It also turns on the cooling fan when the A/C is running. So it needs to connect to the cooling fan circuit.

In your case, if I understand what I'm looking at, the Sniper EFI system doesn't have a +12V power lead for the fan. It's expecting to use your RF fan circuit, and use one of the RF fan thermo wires to trigger engine cooling, which you would do whether you have A/C or not. Then the other RF fan thermo wire (there are two in the harness) would go to your A/C trinary switch. So when the trinary switch closes to ground, that also will cause the fan to run via the RF fan circuit. I'm not sure you'd use either of the Sniper EFI wires you have highlighted in orange. I'd get that confirmed either from someone who's actually installed A/C with the Sniper EFI system in one of these cars. Or check with Holley. But at least maybe my explanation helps describe how it should work.

[Skuzzy]

WOW! Your body is so much better than mine. Luck of the draw, I suppose. Glad you got a good one! Nothing about my build has been easy or simple.

Next crisis is trying to figure out how to mount the rear lower control arms as the frame and mounting points of the lower control arms are an 1/8" apart. I am not even sure how I am going to make any adjustments to be able to fit those arms.

My two options, at the moment, is either to cut the arms and narrow them 1/8" or cut the mounting ears on the frame and relocate them 1/8".

Neither of those options are very attractive, but I am not seeing any alternatives, at the moment.

This is the way it has been with my build. Nothing has attached to the frame without some type of surgery/alterations. I just assume that is the way it is.

[Namrups]

WOW! Your body is so much better than mine. Luck of the draw, I suppose. Glad you got a good one! Nothing about my build has been easy or simple.

Next crisis is trying to figure out how to mount the rear lower control arms as the frame and mounting points of the lower control arms are an 1/8" apart. I am not even sure how I am going to make any adjustments to be able to fit those arms.

My two options, at the moment, is either to cut the arms and narrow them 1/8" or cut the mounting ears on the frame and relocate them 1/8".

Neither of those options are very attractive, but I am not seeing any alternatives, at the moment.

This is the way it has been with my build. Nothing has attached to the frame without some type of surgery/alterations. I just assume that is the way it is.

Before getting that drastic I would slide the bolt thru one ear. Add a washer, two nuts and a second washer in that order then thru the other ear and by using the nuts to try to open up the ears enough to get the arms in. I had to do that to one of mine and was able to get in. Worth a try.

[Skuzzy]

Before getting that drastic I would slide the bolt thru one ear. Add a washer, two nuts and a second washer in that order then thru the other ear and by using the nuts to try to open up the ears enough to get the arms in. I had to do that to one of mine and was able to get in. Worth a try.

The ears are not the problem. The width between the ears is fine. It is the distance between the front mount and rear mount that is at issue. They are just over 1/8" too far apart for the control arms to fit in. I'll have a pic later this morning.

After sleeping on it, I am of the mind that I am going to have to build another set of control arms to make this work, but I am going to look at it again with fresh eyes and see if another solution is possible.

[edwardb]

The ears are not the problem. The width between the ears is fine. It is the distance between the front mount and rear mount that is at issue. They are just over 1/8" too far apart for the control arms to fit in. I'll have a pic later this morning.

After sleeping on it, I am of the mind that I am going to have to build another set of control arms to make this work, but I am going to look at it again with fresh eyes and see if another solution is possible.

Scott's suggestion to adjust the ears is a valid one. It can make a difference just for situations like yours. Using a piece of threaded rod, washers, and nuts to spread them is the least invasive way to do it and is quite effective. Not just for the side-by-side tabs but also the distance between the tabs. By creating additional space often the arms will go in. If you read other build threads, many others note the need to adjust the ears and use a similar method. I've had to do it on multiple places on nearly every build. Better than beating them in like some do.

If/when that's not enough, you can adjust the control arms. I'm assuming since you're talking about rear control arms, that has to be IRS and I've had to adjust the arms a couple of times on the IRS builds I've done. They have relatively long tubes and even though welded in fixtures, the welding can cause built-in stresses that move the metal slightly when removed. I'm sure you know that. I've used a floor jack to spread them. I've used a couple of sharp hits with a dead blow hammer and the other side on a solid surface to narrow them. With the poly bushings removed of course. It doesn't take much, again because of the length of the tubes. One other hint, I always pump the joint full of grease through the zerk fitting before assembly. It's easier to fill the first time before assembly, make sure they're filled, plus the grease makes assembly go a bit easier. You seem pretty determined to take more extreme measures and that's certainly your choice. But for others reading this thread including those of us that don't have the skills or tools, what you have isn't particularly unusual and can be adjusted to fit.

Now back to Scott's build thread.

[Skuzzy]

Scott's suggestion to adjust the ears is a valid one. It can make a difference just for situations like yours. Using a piece of threaded rod, washers, and nuts to spread them is the least invasive way to do it and is quite effective. Not just for the side-by-side tabs but also the distance between the tabs. By creating additional space often the arms will go in. If you read other build threads, many others note the need to adjust the ears and use a similar method. I've had to do it on multiple places on nearly every build. Better than beating them in like some do.

If/when that's not enough, you can adjust the control arms. I'm assuming since you're talking about rear control arms, that has to be IRS and I've had to adjust the arms a couple of times on the IRS builds I've done. They have relatively long tubes and even though welded in fixtures, the welding can cause built-in stresses that move the metal slightly when removed. I'm sure you know that. I've used a floor jack to spread them. I've used a couple of sharp hits with a dead blow hammer and the other side on a solid surface to narrow them. With the poly bushings removed of course. It doesn't take much, again because of the length of the tubes. One other hint, I always pump the joint full of grease through the zerk fitting before assembly. It's easier to fill the first time to before assembly, make sure they're filled, plus the grease makes assembly go a bit easier. You seem pretty determined to take more extreme measures and that's certainly your choice. But for others reading this thread including those of us that don't have the skills or tools, what you have isn't particularly unusual and can be adjusted to fit.

Now back to Scott's build thread.

After a cup of coffee, I see what you guys are talking about. None of those solutions are ideal (the engineer cringes a bit). I apologize for this intrusion into your build thread Namrups. I'll figure it out and take this someplace else to discuss.

[Namrups]

After a cup of coffee, I see what you guys are talking about. None of those solutions are ideal (the engineer cringes a bit). I apologize for this intrusion into your build thread Namrups. I'll figure it out and take this someplace else to discuss.

Not an issue Skuzzy. Other first timers will be reading the thread and information like this will be helpful no matter if they read it here or somewhere else. A separate thread with a proper title and tags would only make it easier to search.

[Namrups]

I've completed the install of the A/C system. All wired up and everything tucked under dash. Things are very tight. Also made a harness for my fog lights and windshield washer reservoir.

Good news: The heater fan works. The A/C switch lights up when switched. I do not have the system charged yet.

Bad news: The heater valve does not operate. As you turn the heater rheostat it should operate the heater valve to open or close. Mine does not move. I checked the rheostat with an ohm meter and it registered nothing. It should change as the rheostat is turned.


Installed the windshield washer reservoir.


And made up a template for the new transmission tunnel cover.


Also received the Lizardskin CI and SC.


I was tossing around the idea of applying the Lizardskin with a roller instead of spraying but ended up getting the spray gun also.

[Namrups]

Went in a little different direction. I was going to apply the Lizardskin and then mount the body. Decided to hold off on the Lizardskin until the weather gets better. Not sure how it would react with freezing weather overnight.

I contacted a number of friends and we installed the body and set the hood in place today.



Very exciting day but now the work continues with getting everything to line up.

[Skuzzy]

Congratulations on another milestone!

[GT_Rich]

Did your air filter clear the hood? How do the side pipes fit in the cutout?

[Namrups]

Did your air filter clear the hood? How do the side pipes fit in the cutout?

Air filter does not clear! Not even close. The side pipes fit great.

[burchfieldb]

Air filter does not clear! Not even close. The side pipes fit great.

Keep is posted on you solution, I fear I am in the same boat.

[rhk118]

Congrats on the progress Scott! Thanks for the detailed build photos, once I am able to my AC box will be going into the PS footbox and then I can get the holes drilled, then maybe can get panels out for powdercoating. You are now the 3rd builder I'm aware of who has had alignment issues with those short hoses. I am just assuming I'll be in the same boat as well so appreciate you detailing how you dug out of that hole so to speak.

Question - is your radiator tunnel aluminum bare inside? I forget if you posted this earlier and if so sorry, they look powdercoated to me but photo is unfocused.

[Namrups]

Congrats on the progress Scott! Thanks for the detailed build photos, once I am able to my AC box will be going into the PS footbox and then I can get the holes drilled, then maybe can get panels out for powdercoating. You are now the 3rd builder I'm aware of who has had alignment issues with those short hoses. I am just assuming I'll be in the same boat as well so appreciate you detailing how you dug out of that hole so to speak.

Question - is your radiator tunnel aluminum bare inside? I forget if you posted this earlier and if so sorry, they look powdercoated to me but photo is unfocused.

The aluminum is a combination of Raptor bed liner on the wheel side and sharkhide on the radiator side.

[GT_Rich]

Air filter does not clear! Not even close. The side pipes fit great.

I'm not sure if mine will clear either. Should know in another month. I will say it's quite a bit lower than yours based on the pics I've seen from you. If you want to compare any measurements let me know via PM. I basically assembled mine with what I believe to be the lowest profile solution for a 351w based engine.

[Namrups]

I'm not sure if mine will clear either. Should know in another month. I will say it's quite a bit lower than yours based on the pics I've seen from you. If you want to compare any measurements let me know via PM. I basically assembled mine with what I believe to be the lowest profile solution for a 351w based engine.

If I can't figure this out I will take you up on your offer.

[Namrups]

Worked on the taillights today. The cutout pattern in the back of the manual was almost to scale. Only off about 1/16th of an inch. Good enough for me. I taped it on the car and marked all the center points with a center punch. Drilled the holes.

The led taillights are for retrofitting so they have a plug that has to get cut off.


I decided to wire these up with weatherpacks.


The issue with using weatherpacks is the 1" hole that is laid out in the manual is too small. I enlarged the hole to be able to slip the weatherpack thru.


Wiring was straight forward. I wired it for the top lights to be brake lights and the bottom to be directionals. I split off another leg from the drivers side for the third brake light that I plan to put into the spoiler. NY also requires side marker lights. I will be splitting off the license plate light for those feeds.

Completed look.

[Namrups]

Here is a short video of the taillights in operation.

[burchfieldb]

Looking good, nice progress!

[Shakey]

Hey Scott,

Great build! I am really enjoying learning from your build thread. I got my Forte mechanical throttle linkage in the mail last week and have been slowly installing it. Your write up on the install has really helped. I can't figure out were I am suppose to mount this return spring bracket.



Did you use this in your install? Where did you mount it?

Thanks,

Shakey

[Namrups]

I have not used it yet. I have the spring hooked around the coil bracket. May use the bracket in that location. The return spring is a must use though. Throttle would not return all the way without it.

[Namrups]

Finished mounting the back up light, the license plate bracket and license plate light. I changed the license plate light to LED following the lead of EdwardB.


I also decided on the location for the backup camera and cut out the hole. Need to work out how to mount it now.

[Namrups]

It's been 2 weeks since my last update. The weather is upstate NY has been exceptionably warm for February. Sadly, I was unable to take full advantage of it. I ended up with an E.coli urinary track infection. Don't know how but treating it with antibiotics and getting better. It really knocked me on my *** for a few days. Managed to spend a little time working on the coupe.

I'm not sure if side marker lights are required in NY but I wanted them anyway. Looked at a number of different types and sizes. Finally decided on 1" round LEDs from Watsons Street Works. Very happy with the results.




Also got the rear hatch installed.

[Namrups]

One of my biggest issues is the air cleaner clearance. With the Stealth manifold the black oval Cobra air cleaner sat too high and wouldn't clear the hood or the cowl. You can see in this pic that the air cleaner is above the firewall already. I loved that air cleaner. Had to figure out a way to use it.


There is a black spacer that sits between the Sniper and the air cleaner. I tried removing that but then the front of the air cleaner sat on top of the distributor. No good.

I tried a 5 degree tapered spacer.


This allowed the air cleaner to tuck under the cowl. I would have to do some trimming of the lip but it would have fit. The front part of the air cleaner would have tilted up above the distributer about 2". I think that would have cleared under the bubble in the hood. Problem solved! Or so I thought.

I mounted the spacer and set the air cleaner in place just to see how far it would tuck under the cowl. As seen in the pic it is quite far. Now I was concerned about the windshield wiper assembly and if there would be interference.


I discussed this with Paul and even though he felt there should be room I was not getting a real warm fuzzy. It might work but before I start trimming the body I wanted to explore other options.

I found a smaller oval air cleaner that looked promising.



Still too high.

[Namrups]

During my discussions with Paul he asked if I had tried a drop base air cleaner. To be honest I had never heard of that. I found that Sniper had a drop base designed for the Sniper unit with the proper clearances. I ordered one and tried it.



I was happy with the fit. It lowered the base of the filter by 1". Now I had 2" of clearance between the filter base and the lip on the cowl. Started looking for a 2" x 14" round air filter assembly. I found one at Summit that I really liked. It's red to match the red highlights on the car and air can also be pulled thru the top cover. May have to trim the underside of the hood slightly but I think this is the solution. Fingers crossed.

[JohnK]

From your first photo, it looks like the main issue with fitting the larger oval air cleaner is the distributor. One option might be to use an angle-drive distributor. It seems like this might allow you to fit the large oval air cleaner without even needing the 5* wedge base or trimming the cowl. I've never used one of these personally, but I've seen others use them and it might be a solution (albeit an expensive one) to your issue.

[Jeff Kleiner]

K&N 14" drop base with an X-Stream top.



Your engine will thank you; those short ovals are tremendously restrictive and like breathing through a straw!

Jeff

EDIT Looks like I was typing and retrieving a photo while you made your last post! Never mind

[Namrups]

From your first photo, it looks like the main issue with fitting the larger oval air cleaner is the distributor. One option might be to use an angle-drive distributor. It seems like this might allow you to fit the large oval air cleaner without even needing the 5* wedge base or trimming the cowl. I've never used one of these personally, but I've seen others use them and it might be a solution (albeit an expensive one) to your issue.

Thanks for that info. After mounting the body it was clear that the Cobra air cleaner was sitting higher that the cowl. Wasn't workable in IMO.

[Namrups]

K&N 14" drop base with an X-Stream top.



Your engine will thank you; those short ovals are tremendously restrictive and like breathing through a straw!

Jeff

EDIT Looks like I was typing and retrieving a photo while you made your last post! Never mind

See Jeff ... like minds think the same!!

[GT_Rich]

Were you able to install the hatch without trimming the body for hinge clearance?