Body fitment question/s I'm a little puzzled..

[Jeff_J.]

Progress continues and a milestone. Put the foam and bulb seal on and set body on the Roadster (2022 MK4) for the first time, looks like a car more an more, balanced body left to right measuring from the top coil over bracket to the outside body edge on both front and back of the car and all the measurements are equal or within 1/8”. The Quick Jack rods on the front are in the center of the holes, the back ones lined up too. The lip of the hood opening is equal on the chassis rail. A lot of this fell into place with very little adjustment on my part (whew). I also noted the bottom edge of the body, as it runs the length of the DS & PS cockpit, is pretty much equal the body is snug to the chassis, no need to lift the body with a jack for sure, I’d figure the body is pretty much square to the chassis but……
1. I installed the hood hinges on the chassis & noticed the chassis rail holding the top of the rad was further away from the lip, of the body on the DS than the PS probably 3/4 inch, the body is square on the frame, am I missing something here??
Rad Rail gap.jpg
2. I’ve just started fitting the hood and the trunk panels. FF mentions the panels are oversized and need to be trimmed back to an all-around gap of 3/16”, I’ve read others saying between 1/4 and 3/8” gap. I set the hood in place & aligned as good as possible then secured it in place, I’ve noticed the panels are not cut straight and vary in gap all over, in some areas just fit the opening and other areas have a 5/16 gap. Should I be marking the hood for trimming based on this alignment and count on the hinges to be adjustable enough to duplicate my alignment?
I attached pictures of the how the body situated in relation to the door post and hinge I have not attempted attaching the doors yet.
PS door post body alignment.jpg
PS door hinge aligment.jpg
DS door hinge aligment.jpg
DS door post body alignment.jpg
Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated…. Thanks in advance.
Jeff

[CraigS]

I haven't worked w/ the FFR hinges enough to give you a good answer. One thing to note though is that the sides of the recess that the hood fits into are not 90deg to the surface of the body. The opening gets narrower as you drop the hood into it. If you trim the hood when sitting in the bottom of the opening it will end up too small. So, before you trim the hood, make up some spacers to hold the hood up flush w/ the surrounding body.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Progress continues and a milestone. Put the foam and bulb seal on and set body on the Roadster (2022 MK4) for the first time, looks like a car more an more, balanced body left to right measuring from the top coil over bracket to the outside body edge on both front and back of the car and all the measurements are equal or within 1/8”. The Quick Jack rods on the front are in the center of the holes, the back ones lined up too. The lip of the hood opening is equal on the chassis rail. A lot of this fell into place with very little adjustment on my part (whew). I also noted the bottom edge of the body, as it runs the length of the DS & PS cockpit, is pretty much equal the body is snug to the chassis, no need to lift the body with a jack for sure, I’d figure the body is pretty much square to the chassis but……
1. I installed the hood hinges on the chassis & noticed the chassis rail holding the top of the rad was further away from the lip, of the body on the DS than the PS probably 3/4 inch, the body is square on the frame, am I missing something here??

2. I’ve just started fitting the hood and the trunk panels. FF mentions the panels are oversized and need to be trimmed back to an all-around gap of 3/16”, I’ve read others saying between 1/4 and 3/8” gap. I set the hood in place & aligned as good as possible then secured it in place, I’ve noticed the panels are not cut straight and vary in gap all over, in some areas just fit the opening and other areas have a 5/16 gap. Should I be marking the hood for trimming based on this alignment and count on the hinges to be adjustable enough to duplicate my alignment?
I attached pictures of the how the body situated in relation to the door post and hinge I have not attempted attaching the doors yet.

Any help or comments would be greatly appreciated…. Thanks in advance.
Jeff

Two items regarding the tube that the radiator attaches to; the hood opening on the body is skewed and the tube is skewed on the chassis in the opposite direction. Long story short is that they are not parallel and are all like that. Likewise since the hood opening is not centered or straight on the body you don't want to use the tubes surrounding the hood opening as an indicator of whether the front of the body is centered or not. Measure from the shock tower to the outer lip of the wheel opening.

For trimming you want a final gap of approximately 3/16" but I recommend that you do less than that initially and don't finalize that until all of the moving panels (hood, trunk, doors) are adjusted, the body is anchored in it's permanent location and all body work is completed.

I can't tell from the angle of your photos exactly where the body is positioned in relation to the door latch striker plates. This is where you want to be:



You will probably have to trim the underside of the cowl rollover to be able to move the body far enough forward without making hard contact with the dash.

Good luck!
Jeff

[Jeff_J.]

Thanks for the responses guys!
Jeff – I’ll disregard the angle of the front rail. I did centre the body left top right based on the top shock mount for both front and back – the back was a touch to the PS by about 1/8” which probably explains the slight gap difference between the PD and slight contact on the DS. Pictures attached.
DS door hinge 2.jpg
PS door hinge 2.jpg
You’re picture shows the body is about 3/8” forward of the post tab I’m about 1/8” here and although the cowl roll is not contacting the dash hoop – it would leave zero gap specifically on the DS if I tried moving the body forward. I’ll get that trimmed before trying to move the body forward. It will probably make a larger gap on the front signal light brackets won’t know till I get there.
You mention 3/16” final gap – even with adjusting to the 32nd of an inch I have one of two gaps of 5/16 and a few more at ¼”. If I trim to 3/16” can the larger gaps be filled (HSFR) closer to body alignment completion? Or is the trimming gap larger and primer and paint close the gap to 3/16”?
Thanks again for your input - I'd rather not muck it it at this point or create more work later..

[Jeff Kleiner]

Originally Posted by Jeff_J.
You’re picture shows the body is about 3/8” forward of the post tab I’m about 1/8” here and although the cowl roll is not contacting the dash hoop – it would leave zero gap specifically on the DS if I tried moving the body forward. I’ll get that trimmed before trying to move the body forward. It will probably make a larger gap on the front signal light brackets won’t know till I get there.
You mention 3/16” final gap – even with adjusting to the 32nd of an inch I have one of two gaps of 5/16 and a few more at ¼”. If I trim to 3/16” can the larger gaps be filled (HSFR) closer to body alignment completion? Or is the trimming gap larger and primer and paint close the gap to 3/16”?
Thanks again for your input - I'd rather not muck it it at this point or create more work later..

That is farther forward than many...1/8-1/4" will get you to where you need to be. Regarding being able to move the body forward and back as needed. I don't use the front "horseshoe" brackets (neither do some of the other pros, i.e.; Jeff Miller, Ken Pike) but instead use the rubber grommets from Metro Molded Products along with 3/4" bumper tubes to hold the front of the body. It needs to be held about 5/8" above the engine compartment square tubing at the front where it angles downward to the bumper mount plates. I also do not use rigid tunes inside the body at the rear quick jack bolts. Doing it this way also will let you move the lower valance in or out as needed to meet the bottom edge of the trunk lid.

Where are you seeing a 5/16" gap? Is this as delivered or after you've trimmed? I have never had a panel that was so overtrimmed from FFR that it left a gap that large...I've had plenty of them that gapped big because the customer got carried away though! In those cases I build in the body opening rather than trying to add material to the thin edge of the door, hood or trunk lid.

Jeff

[Jeff_J.]

I noted were some dropped the hose shoe brackets. I was going to get the rubber gromets for the front QJ rods none the less. I’ll look into Metro products for the gromets and the tube. I have not started trimming yet I just set the hood and trunk to align them so they could be marked for trimming.
Whole hood picture. whole hood.jpg
Hood passenger side wide end on the fender side of the radius. PS hood gap.jpg
This is the driver side same position – I’m showing this just to confirm I can’t move the hood to the PS without the same issue on the DS. I’ve rotated a little to minimise the gap as much as possible without creating a bigger alignment issue.
DS hood gap.jpg
Whole Trunk whole trunk.jpg
Trunk lid DS top corner and likewise PS top corner just showing same – I can’t move sideways, if I move forward the lid contacts the body at the centre and PS.
DS trunk gap.jpgPS trunk gap.jpg
Hope these make sense. Thanks for your input!

[Jeff_J.]

My first attempt at shaping the hood, door etc. Watched the FF video they say 3/16 gap but withe the exception of the Drivers door which is extremely oversized the other ones arrived with very little opportunity for a 3/16 gap. I started applying a fine line for an initial trimming at 1/4" the area's I can trim on the trunk are marked working on the PS door next - getting it lined to do the fine line is a bit of a challenge.
fine line trunk.jpg
PS door next.jpg

[Malibu46pt]

I too just set my body. I was only able to body centered within 1/4 inch. The measurement side to side are 1/2 difference. Need to move body 1/4 inch. The quick jack openings are center. I wou,d have to open the quick jack holes to move the body. Not sure I want to do this.
Is the current location ok??????

[Jeff Kleiner]

I too just set my body. I was only able to body centered within 1/4 inch. The measurement side to side are 1/2 difference. Need to move body 1/4 inch. The quick jack openings are center. I wou,d have to open the quick jack holes to move the body. Not sure I want to do this.
Is the current location ok??????

This is very common; you need to bend the tubes that run forward to the quick jack/bumper mounting plates to get the nose centered (more often than not they need to go towards the passenger side). They move easily with a couple good whacks from a heavy rubber mallet or soft faced deadblow hammer.

Jeff

[Jeff Kleiner]

My first attempt at shaping the hood, door etc. Watched the FF video they say 3/16 gap but withe the exception of the Drivers door which is extremely oversized the other ones arrived with very little opportunity for a 3/16 gap. I started applying a fine line for an initial trimming at 1/4" the area's I can trim on the trunk are marked working on the PS door next - getting it lined to do the fine line is a bit of a challenge.

As I said previously I highly recommend that you not attempt final trimming or gapping until all of the body shaping is completed. The doors take a lot of manipulating in/out, up/down and forward/back during that process all of which affect the gaps. For the trunk lid put the seal of first; it affects the fit and margins.

Jeff

[Jeff_J.]

Thanks Jeff, I was away yesterday. I did manipulate the door to it's best position in the hole but still have gaps of close to 5/16 even before trimming. These are pictures of the hood with gap measurements all around so you can see it's not a matter of shifting or clocking the hood either, forward /back or rotate just moves the larger gap to another location. The hood is as supplied, not trimming just placed in the hole with bumpers. I'm wondering is this is typical and if adding material or trimming that much is what's required.
Thanks for the insight, direction.
Jeff

[Jeff_J.]

forgot to attach the pictures of the hood gaps. hood gaps 1.jpg
hood gaps PS top no 2.jpg
hood gap 3.jpg
hood gap 4.jpg
hood gap 5.jpg
hood gap 6.jpg
hood gap 7.jpg
hood gap 8.jpg
These are sequential around the hood counterclockwise.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I have never seen a hood that was untouched, straight from FFR that would even drop into the opening, much less gap all the way around...I don't know how you wound up with gaps around the entire perimeter without doing any trimming????? When was this car produced?

Jeff

[Mike.Bray]

I have never seen a hood that was untouched, straight from FFR that would even drop into the opening, much less gap all the way around...I don't know how you wound up with gaps around the entire perimeter without doing any trimming????? When was this car produced?

Jeff

Mine was that way, it dropped in the opening with a gap all the way around. I received my kit at the end of May 2022.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Mine was that way, it dropped in the opening with a gap all the way around. I received my kit at the end of May 2022.

You got my curiosity up Mike so I looked back at some of Jeff_J's posts and it appears that his car was also delivered mid to late '22. I haven't gotten a car that new yet but that timeframe is shortly after FFR's new robotic cutter came on line. This has me thinking that there may be {must be} differences between how the new machines are programmed to trim vs the old which dated back almost 2 decades and if so they must be getting more aggressive with the cuts. I'd sure rather have to make a panel smaller rather than bigger! I'm gonna' give Dave a call...

Jeff

[Lidodrip]

Mine was that way, it dropped in the opening with a gap all the way around. I received my kit at the end of May 2022.

Same experience as Mike, hood had a gap all the way around from the factory. My car was picked up 1/2021. I had to add about a 1/16" of filler to a small section (1.5" long) of edge on the passenger side (having not touched the corresponding driver's side). My driver's door was worse, there was a section on the bottom that was over trimmed by an 1/8". In both cases, it looked like the cutting machine went off course because the areas were pretty discrete. I believe FFR had just started to use their new cutter as we saw it being installed/programmed when we toured the factory in the summer of 2020.

James

[Jeff_J.]

Whew, I was worried being a newbie and all that I was missing something about how the panels were supplied. My DS door is oversized for sure, PS door has larger gaps and my trunk lid has a couple larger gaps as well. I decided to hold off touching any of the panels and put a call in to Dan at FF for some clarification, I know it's not his department but maybe the message will get around to the right person. (John C. ??). Body work on hold - I should be receiving my Gas N pipes next week, ordered them Nov 7th., been waiting to do first start since January, then I can finalise some panel attachments.
Thanks for the input guys!!! Hoping for a quick resolution to the panel thing..
Jeff J.

[michael everson]

I have run into this on several builds. Wish they would fix it. Its way easier to sand the part down than to add to it.
Mike

[haak60]

my driver side door is the only thing that is actually oversized. the passenger side door will need edges built out. the trunk is worse the upper corners probably have a 3/8 gap. im putting the car together making it legal and then going back and addressing the panels.

[Jeff_J.]

I like the idea of moving forward and dealing with the panels later but.., it would seem to me that if the panels are cut too small they are wrong, there will be a cost to have material added especially if you're outsourcing the final bodywork. Maybe some of the more senior builders have run across parallel situations in the past and how it was resolved, maybe I'm being unrealistic in my suggestions. Either way I'd like to know FF's position on this before I start.

[Jeff_J.]

Just a quick update here. I put in a call/email last Wednesday (19th) with FF regarding the undersized panels to see if they have a resolution, I haven't heard back yet so I sent a follow up. Has anyone been in touch with FF with the same issue have they responded? I'll mention if I hear from FF on this, I'm kinda stuck on moving forward till I hear back from them.