Header alignment with body cutout - Roadster. Question

[Jeff_J.]

I have a BP 347 with FF ball flange headers, i'm fitting GAS-N standard side pipes. I know the template FF supplies is undersized and just a guide but it seems like the location they suggest for the cutout is a further forward than the header output if it was to be pointing straight, even allowing for clearance. It's the same on both sides and I know the body and engine are aligned. It's not hard to make the cutout further back I was just wondering if anyone else found this and if their answer was to adjust the cutout further back.
Jeff_J

[BrewCityCobra]

I'm in a similar position (doing my first test-fittings of the body) and found the ball-flange headers (I have a 427W) with Gas-N pipes to be waaayyy off. So I'll be watching this with interest. It seems like the driver side is pretty close but the passenger side seems to sit pretty far back (E.g., the header wants to pass through the body behind the hole provided by FFR).

If you get them to fit, I'd be interested to see a photo of where you had to cut and how much for reference.

[egchewy79]

johnk (greek garage) just posted about some fitment issues w/ his gas n' pipes and how Georgie helped him w/ the alignment issues.
he's running a coyote so probably different issue but maybe worth reading his experience

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...-thanks-SJDave!)

[Jeff_J.]

BrewCityCobra I looked at JohnK's notes - his solution won't work for me but his build is pretty impressive none the less. I've been giving this further thought, I photocopied the template in the back of the Manual (printing it from the online manual out as a slightly smaller size) The current cutout on the body starts about 3/4" from the beginning of the wheel flare so I think I'm going to attach the template to the front edge and trim based on this adjusted line - it will still be too small but its a start can always take a little more off once I see the result. I'll set the trim line and cut it tomorrow, I'll post a picture. If you come across any ideas I'd be interested to hear them as well. Good luck. J.

[JohnK]

Generally speaking, the ball flanges are great for up/down adjustment and for setting pipe angle parallel to the body but won't help at all for front/back adjustment of the pipes exiting the body cutout. If you have the room to accommodate wedges, using some wedges (as shown in my build thread) will allow you to change the front/back position of the pipes exiting through the body cutout. Hopefully this makes sense.

[BrewCityCobra]

BrewCityCobra I looked at JohnK's notes - his solution won't work for me but his build is pretty impressive none the less. I've been giving this further thought, I photocopied the template in the back of the Manual (printing it from the online manual out as a slightly smaller size) The current cutout on the body starts about 3/4" from the beginning of the wheel flare so I think I'm going to attach the template to the front edge and trim based on this adjusted line - it will still be too small but its a start can always take a little more off once I see the result. I'll set the trim line and cut it tomorrow, I'll post a picture. If you come across any ideas I'd be interested to hear them as well. Good luck. J.

Yeah, JohnK's build is certainly involved - I was kind of hoping I could solve this with a little trimming and maybe a spacer to two. I guess time will tell but it doesn't look promising.

For now, I'm holding off making any cuts until I get the body in the final/final position. I still have a bit of trimming to do by dashboard so I'm hoping scooting everything forward a bit will may be help. But the truth is the passenger side is pretty bad - driver isn't great but more managable. Very curious to see how your layout looks.

Good luck to you as well! I'll make sure to include a few photos once I start cutting as well.

[michael everson]

Take a measurement from the front of the footbox to the center of the header ball. Maybe we can compare measurements to see if you are way off. This measurement shouldn’t vary to much.
Mike

[CraigS]

One solution that is fairly applicable to a race car is an aluminum piece that gives you the clearance that looks good and extends far enough over the fiberglass to cover whatever the mismatch is. Rivet it on and paint it along w/ the body.

[Jeff_J.]

Life got in the way today so I didn't look at the car at all today. I looked at trimming the wrap of the body at the dash hoop as well as it's holding the body from a little forward movement but considering the body is 1/8" in front of the door striker mount on both DS and PS I don't think I can go very far forward. I also read to consider how the splash panel will fit before cutting just to be sure not to cut off material needed to attach the panel. I like the idea of measuring from the front of the footbox and post it to see how it compares to what Mike has. (Thanks for offering Mike (and others) I/we appreciate the help and insight. For me its the drivers side is worse. I'm going to double check the body measurement across from the front shock mount to body edge again to be sure they are equal front and back. I should have this tomorrow. We'll get this figured out, i'm sure..........

[michael everson]

I have found the splash shields make very little difference in fit. Especially front to back. If your body at the door latch is just ahead of the latch mount then you are fine front to back.
Mike

[j.miller]

I would say most times the driver side is workable front to rear with a little opening but most times I need to open ^up 2 or more inches. Typically the pass side needs a little move up maybe 3/4 in. Because the header ends further (inboard) it causes the the cutout opened up A LOT to the rear and a skewed angle to clear the inside bend of the pipe. It causes 3/4 to 1 in of backfilling on the front side......they are all different. Thank goodness for Breezes wedges and spacers...Da Bat

[j.miller]

I have found the splash shields make very little difference in fit. Especially front to back. If your body at the door latch is just ahead of the latch mount then you are fine front to back.
Mike

.....and I fully agree with Mike. Don't use the splash shield to fix a problem.

[Jeff_J.]

I had a chance to double check my body alignment (car). From the top of the shock mounts side to side and front and rear measure 14.75" (+/- 1/8), striker mount on the door is 1/8 - 1/16 behind the body edge.
PS measurement from Footbox to center of header flange is 5 7/8" - 6", DS is 3 3/4" (I don't have the outside panel of the DS footbox attached at this point so that may affect the measurement)
PS hdr.jpg
DS Hdr.jpg
Tried to take the picture at duplicate location and angles, I'm a little off on the vertical but the idea was to show the forward to back difference. I'd say there is at least 1" difference from side to side I'd have to cut just into the DS flare to get a bit of clearance at the front of the side pipes and would have at least 1" of space between the flare and where my clearance would start on the DS. hope that makes sense. Grateful for input - maybe I missed something or maybe wedges fix this???

[Jeff Kleiner]

Have you actually tried to install the sidepipes to the header flanges yet? The 4 tubes begin to head rearward after the flange and will come through the body farther back than what a simple visual will lead you to believe so if you're basing this on the belief that the pipes will come straight out that's an incorrect assumption. On the same set of headers FFR pipes exit the body farther rearward than Gas 'N. Much like I told you recently about trimming doors, you can make some initial rough cuts now but you really, REALLY need to have the body in it's final position with the doors fully fitted before getting too carried away on the sidepipe cutouts. If you end up using wedges of flat spacers between the header and pipes this will change where the cutout needs to be and how it is shaped and you can't determine that until then.

Jeff

[michael everson]

In my experience the driver side cutout is way back. Most I have seen end up real close to where the flare starts.
Mike

[Jeff_J.]

Thanks for the comments guys, appreciate the guidance. I want to answer the questions as accurately as possible so here goes; I have not actually attached the Gas N side pipes yet - I would have had to enlarge the opening to do it. I have centred the car but it is not totally locked down, I just finished mounting the windshield I understand from the manual the windshield needs to be attached before the doors are mounted and trimmed to fit, I anticipate there will be some minor adjustment involving some in or out movement of the bottom of the body. I understand what you are saying about the angle of the pipes coming out and the adjustment of the body may affect the angle of the ball flange and side pipe. I have attached pictures of what I'm looking at right now but I guess till the body is locked down these may not be relevant to the final cutting. Having not done this before the degree the alignment is out does not look like it would be much different with the body locked down.
Side pipe 1.jpg side pipe held up parallel to body - doors mounted and preliminary aligned but body not anchored on bottom frame yet.
Side pipe 2.jpg side pipe entering existing cutout - holding side pipe in same parallel position (pipe corners contact the body and cannot go in any further.
Side pipe 3.jpg side pipe flange and ball mount flange as they align side pipe being held in same position.
If having the body locked down is the recommended way before looking at the cutouts then I'll follow that course. Thanks very much for your experience and input here, I'm sure this will pay off for others as well. JJ.

[Jeff_J.]

I should have mentioned this as well - the above is the PS the DS side is opposite, (the existing cutout to not far enough forward and would have to start a the edge of the flare + clearance room for the pipe) which is why is I re checked the body was centred by measuring shock to wheel well lip on all 4 corners.

[rich grsc]

You can swing the rear of the tranny toward the passenger side. A small 1/4-1/2" will make a difference.