Roadracer's #997 build

[RoadRacer]

IIRC the FFR low back seats only weighed 10 LBS each.

Yeah I thought they’d be heavier. I just took out my passenger seat and it weighed 15-16lbs.. about the same as the jegs new ones!

[RoadRacer]

I haven't been keeping up here! I got the seats - remember the 17" ones, with Jegs showing the maximum width dimension as 17" on their diagram. Well, they were wrong. At the narrowest point of the base they measured 17.5", and at the widest part of the base they measured 18.25" Beware!!

The problem is, 17" was the maximum width that I had, between the aluminum transmission tunnel and the sill chassis. Jegs were no help and said that these measurements were "within tolerance" (1.25" error over 17"??) so they wouldn't replace them, or pay for shipping the return. It's not just the fact that there is limited width - these seats are so tall you literally can't get them in the door with the roof on (mine isn't removable). I have to cut the transmission JUST to get the seat inside the car.

So if you're considering these seats (which are nice seats, no complaints about them), buy the 16"

It took a full weekend, over 10hours, to fit the drivers seat. I had to cut up the transmission tunnel, and fabricate a way to fit them without having any room or access to the nuts&bolts. It was painful.

But here it is, and I love it now that it is in. I can literally corner faster now - I've tested it on my favorite long sweeper - not because the car is faster, but I feel more secure and trust the car more.

2023-06-04 15.01.37.jpg

[RoadRacer]

Here's the notched panel I had to make up to fill the gap I had to cut out.

2023-06-04 11.49.25.jpg

[RoadRacer]

Next, was me nearly putting the car into the wall on a 70mph corner on a freeway. The steering seemed to "slip" at the time, and I caught it and got it home, but it was a very unnerving thing to happen. The steering worked, but under any pressure it seemed to slip sideways.

I took it all apart, and all grub screws were still tight (I use red loctite), but the splines in the very last joint had almost completely worn off.

Take a look at this. It's really hard to photograph.

2023-06-04 18.38.01.jpg

[RoadRacer]

The real problem with the stock part (stock for my 2017 gen1 at least) is that it is a blind spline, if that's the right word. The spline on the steering rack is longer than the spline in the joint, you can't push it all the way on. You're wasting some spline.

I've never been happy with this joint, and tightening grub screws or drilling deeper holes never stops it being wobbly. The grub screws stop it coming apart, but never make it a tight fit.

I replaced it with a unisteer 8050230 - you can see it's shorter, but fatter than the original. It also has a different style of connection that we will see if it's better over time.

2023-06-07 18.22.54.jpg

Because it was shorter, I bought some DD shaft and made up a new lower shaft, and drilled for all the grub screws. Here it is fitted:

2023-06-08 20.38.35.jpg 2023-06-08 20.38.23.jpg

NOTE - this joint is a much better design and can be fitted all the way up the rack spline.

[RoadRacer]

ok, so one thing that I didn't say during the seat fitment was that I had to measure where the seat should go. I read about the recommendations and ergonomic placement of race car seats and steering wheel, and that;s when I realized that my steering wheel was not ideally placed. This is largely my fault by using a quick change and my own wheel which I believe ended up placing my wheel further away from the driver.

Now it was time to fix it!! I knew that my arms were pretty straight at "10 and 2", where they should be almost 90º, and my hand was touching the top of wheel at the base of my fingers instead of my wrist. It was a good 4.5" too far away.

Today I fixed that, I had planned it out and only took 4 hours to fabricate, fix, and test.

In short, I bolted up some angle iron to the original chassis holes and drilled new holes 4.5" closer for the steering column to bolt to. Then cut a new DD shaft that was 4.5" longer.

This also had the added benefit that I could move the steering wheel sideways, so it was central in my new seat.

2023-06-18 13.11.30.jpg 2023-06-18 13.11.12.jpg

I'll tidy it up and make an aluminum panel to cover the visible part. But it makes a big difference in driving - it's now central, and the perfect height and distance. The angle iron is super stiff so just as strong as before.

[Just 1 More]

ok, so one thing that I didn't say during the seat fitment was that I had to measure where the seat should go. I read about the recommendations and ergonomic placement of race car seats and steering wheel, and that;s when I realized that my steering wheel was not ideally placed. This is largely my fault by using a quick change and my own wheel which I believe ended up placing my wheel further away from the driver.

Now it was time to fix it!! I knew that my arms were pretty straight at "10 and 2", where they should be almost 90º, and my hand was touching the top of wheel at the base of my fingers instead of my wrist. It was a good 4.5" too far away.

Today I fixed that, I had planned it out and only took 4 hours to fabricate, fix, and test.

In short, I bolted up some angle iron to the original chassis holes and drilled new holes 4.5" closer for the steering column to bolt to. Then cut a new DD shaft that was 4.5" longer.

This also had the added benefit that I could move the steering wheel sideways, so it was central in my new seat.

2023-06-18 13.11.30.jpg 2023-06-18 13.11.12.jpg

I'll tidy it up and make an aluminum panel to cover the visible part. But it makes a big difference in driving - it's now central, and the perfect height and distance. The angle iron is super stiff so just as strong as before.

You do know that they make NHRA certified double locking seat tracks... That's what I used on mine just for that reason... So that I can shorten up when I want to Auto-X and stretch out when I want to cruise.

[RoadRacer]

You do know that they make NHRA certified double-locking seat tracks... That's what I used on mine just for that reason... So that I can shorten up when I want to Auto-X and stretch out when I want to cruise.

yes, for sure. I don't think of it that way though - I wanted the 'correct' positioning all the time, so I can always be practicing and gaining muscle memory. Anyway, it's MORE comfortable with the new seat and wheel position, not less so.

plus of course, moving the seat shortens the space for your legs

[RoadRacer]

Loving the new steering wheel position.

Back to the other end of the steering though - the new spline joint is "ok" but - again - can't be tightened enough to be snug on the splines. I have another style that IS snugger, but now I have the problem that I can't get the new one off because tightening the cap head screw to 45lbs (as they specified) rounded out the cap head. My cap head tools for removing rounded-off ones don't have a 7mm option, and it's too rounded to use the 6mm. Cool, so I'll have to drill it out a little then use the 8mm. There's always something!

However.. without power steering this last DD shaft is too long to be unsupported IMO - it exaggerates any play already present. So I put the support back on, in a way that will allow me to adjust it infinitely. I cut a slot in the bracket because this support has to be in EXACTLY the correct position in 3D to work.

The steering has nowhere to move now, so it'll be good enough to race this weekend.. then I'll consider swapping out that spline joint.

2023-06-25 15.19.29.jpg

[J R Jones]

James, You could weld one half of your ring clamp to the universal. Weld split ring clamps to both ends of the universal.
Actually that universal joint looks small to me.
jim

[RoadRacer]

James, You could weld one half of your ring clamp to the universal. Weld split ring clamps to both ends of the universal.
Actually that universal joint looks small to me.
jim

Yeah, it's hard to explain, but the UJ isn't loose in a far/aft direction. I did put the clamp on to assist admittedly. But the real issue is side-side, like if you grab the center of the UJ you can move it side to side because the spline is not a tight fit (the DD is tight).

My approach here is to hold the shaft tight in space so that it completely nullifies any side-side movement. That will stop wear on the spline too. My previous spline was not supported for 2 years, so by the time I did this, it was too late (plus the old stock design had limited spline engagement).

So, yes, we're still on this journey! Ultimately the only real solution is a new design with the "normal" 1 or 2 UJ's, but good luck with that! I've stared at this for hours and even with my penchant for experimentation, it wouldn't be easy.

[peterh226]

I'm fighting the joint at the rack connection as well. Seems like everything is too rigid. I am wondering if a vibration damper ujoint will absorb just enough to keep this from happening. Anyone tried this? A lot of systems don't want to be completely rigid.

[RoadRacer]

I'm fighting the joint at the rack connection as well. Seems like everything is too rigid. I am wondering if a vibration damper ujoint will absorb just enough to keep this from happening. Anyone tried this? A lot of systems don't want to be completely rigid.

No I’ve never thought of that. I’m not sure what vibration you need to dampen though. Everything in the system is loose in the dirextions it needs to move in.. rotation! But is held in place VERY firmly everywhere else (at top) so all I’m doing is the same at the spline joint. It works so much better when it can’t move (the wrong way)

[RoadRacer]

My mufflers have been getting worse for some time, but at this weekends racing I had enough. Medium to high revs now sounds like a can full of bolts. Rattling, screeching, whining, all sorts of noises nowadays. So today I ordered some Borla 40357 and I’m just going to clamp in place of the stock ones using some butt joint band clamps for now. Or maybe I’ll take my mufflers to a local shop and have them put the same stock swage on.

[Ltfracing]

Your car is awesome sir

[RoadRacer]

Your car is awesome sir

Haha thanks! Looking forward to your build.

[JimLev]

My mufflers have been getting worse for some time, but at this weekends racing I had enough. Medium to high revs now sounds like a can full of bolts. Rattling, screeching, whining, all sorts of noises nowadays. So today I ordered some Borla 40357 and I’m just going to clamp in place of the stock ones using some butt joint band clamps for now. Or maybe I’ll take my mufflers to a local shop and have them put the same stock swage on.

A while ago I bought Borla 40351, that have the same dimensions as your 40357. Wonder what the difference is.
I haven’t installed them yet.

[RoadRacer]

A while ago I bought Borla 40351, that have the same dimensions as your 40357. Wonder what the difference is.
I haven’t installed them yet.

The 40351 you have has offset both ends. Mine is center one end, offset the other. I just tried to match the stock one as much as possible.

[JimLev]

So they should both sound about the same, hopefully a lot quieter than the FFR mufflers.
If you get yours installed before me post what your thoughts on them are.
I remember why I bought the 40351, the inlet to outlet center to center spacing was closer to the FFR mufflers according to the Borla rep I spoke to.

[RoadRacer]

Here's my fastest time at this last weekend's event at RCCC. started with a 45.5s, and ended with this run with a 43.7

[peterh226]

No I’ve never thought of that. I’m not sure what vibration you need to dampen though. Everything in the system is loose in the dirextions it needs to move in.. rotation! But is held in place VERY firmly everywhere else (at top) so all I’m doing is the same at the spline joint. It works so much better when it can’t move (the wrong way)

See my post over in suspensions, but I put a washer under the lower bolt to rotate rack just a few degrees and this was enough to free up the motion of the joints so they dont try to undo themselves from the splines.

[RoadRacer]

As I said before, my mufflers have intermittently sounded bad for a few months. Some days there is no strange noise, idles and sounds wonderful. Other days, usually after some sustained high revs (cough cough), it sounds terrible, like there are no insides in the mufflers.

Today was the day I took it all apart to inspect and install the new Borla XS 40357.

You can see earlier in the build that I'd wrapped the mufflers - twice - in insulation and also wrapped the exhaust pipes under the car. Now, I don't know if that caused the problem you're about to see but take a look at the blueing of the muffler, and the discoloration of the stainless pipe. Things were HOT under this insulation. [and the floor was still 130º IIRC]

blue muffler.jpg

I'm going to run without insulation this time.

When I picked up the muffler and shook it.. well, you'd laugh at the noise. It's hard to tell this when installed in the car - you can't shake an installed muffler. So I cut it open for you all to see what (at least a Gen1) muffler looks like:

inside muffler.jpg

I'm not kidding, nothing was attached inside the mufflers. It was an empty box with 4 pieces of metal in it, rattling around. So at some point I'd bounced/revved all the welds enough to break.

Weirdly, look closer at the steel pieces. They are bent and fractured.

fract1.jpg fract3.jpg fract2.jpg

I have no explanation. Anyway, here is a new Borla that is going on tomorrow, compared with what I took off. Very similar shape and size. But the Borla design has a very different design- straight through but surrounded by what looks like a bee hive inside.

gen1 vs borla.jpg

More tomorrow when the new clamps show up - I'm just going to use some lap joint band clamps to get me back on the road. I had the butt joint versions of these because the muffler is supposed to be 2.25".. but it isn't. It measures 2.4" which is outside tolerance for the clamps I have. The lap joint clamps are designed to match the OD of one to the ID of the other (which is what Borla didn't make clear - their measurements are ID).

[Just 1 More]

I have no doubt that FFR sourced the cheapest POS mufflers they could get away with

[JimLev]

The blueing of the stainless is common when it gets really hot. Without the insulation on it the floor is going to get much hotter.
I’ve got the band clamps for mine, just need to get some free time.
I’ll be interested in the level of sound from the Borla’s.
I was thinking about cutting mine open to see what’s inside, you saved me the trouble.

[RoadRacer]

The blueing of the stainless is common when it gets really hot. Without the insulation on it the floor is going to get much hotter.
I’ve got the band clamps for mine, just need to get some free time.
I’ll be interested in the level of sound from the Borla’s.
I was thinking about cutting mine open to see what’s inside, you saved me the trouble.

I’m sure you’re right about the heat.. but I’ll fix it a different way this time. Probably a layer of something on the floor but I’ll research it this time around

[Just 1 More]

I’m sure you’re right about the heat.. but I’ll fix it a different way this time. Probably a layer of something on the floor but I’ll research it this time around

Looking forward to what you come up with. I have looked at a bunch of DEI products https://www.designengineering.com/he...riers-shields/

[RoadRacer]

The Borla went on really easily. Cut off the ball ends from exhaust, used some lap joint clamps, they were on in under an hour. Sounds MUCH quieter than what I had (even when they sounded good) but still sound good. I took for a drive and I swear the car felt more powerful but I’m probably kidding myself. It sure sounds smoother.

[RoadRacer]

I posted 4 video “shorts” of the before during and after sounds although it’s hard to capture audio accurately with a phone.. https://youtube.com/@JamesShaw1

[JimLev]

Thank you James. I’ll have to find time to install mine.

[Just 1 More]

The Borla went on really easily. Cut off the ball ends from exhaust, used some lap joint clamps, they were on in under an hour. Sounds MUCH quieter than what I had (even when they sounded good) but still sound good. I took for a drive and I swear the car felt more powerful but I’m probably kidding myself. It sure sounds smoother.

So everything lined up good? That 40357 is the one to use?

[JimLev]

James is using a side exhaust outlet in front of the rear wheels. I don’t know if that would/wouldn’t make any difference if you were to install the rear exhaust.

[RoadRacer]

James is using a side exhaust outlet in front of the rear wheels. I don’t know if that would/wouldn’t make any difference if you were to install the rear exhaust.

Yeah, I matched my muffler shape on the one I got for the standard side exhaust. One center tube, one offset tube. I have no idea what the rear exhaust mufflers look like.

[J R Jones]

James, quite an impressive demonstration. I agree the Borlas are an improvement. They will reduce sound/vibration fatigue.
It is likely that your engine benefits from a bit of back pressure, it was engineered originally that way.

[RoadRacer]

So everything lined up good? That 40357 is the one to use?

To answer you more specifically, yes, it fit perfectly. It was a simple bolt-in replacement. I just cut off the cupped ends from the pipes, and then clamped these on.

[Just 1 More]

To answer you more specifically, yes, it fit perfectly. It was a simple bolt-in replacement. I just cut off the cupped ends from the pipes, and then clamped these on.

Thanks James, I guess i'm going to go ahead and order the Borlas

[FF33rod]

Yeah, I matched my muffler shape on the one I got for the standard side exhaust. One center tube, one offset tube. I have no idea what the rear exhaust mufflers look like.

The mufflers used for the rear exhaust option are the same - the rear exhaust kit is just pipe sections that goes from the muffler out through to the rear...
Thanks for all this info James, I know what one of my winter projects will be now...

Steve

[Iziks]

Any noticeable difference in the heat in the cabin from the Borlas? I did a short run simply deleting the FF mufflers and the heat difference is HUGE. WAY cooler in the cabin, but definitely too loud. Was thinking of maybe long glass packs - i am willing to put up with noise for less heat

[RoadRacer]

Any noticeable difference in the heat in the cabin from the Borlas? I did a short run simply deleting the FF mufflers and the heat difference is HUGE. WAY cooler in the cabin, but definitely too loud. Was thinking of maybe long glass packs - i am willing to put up with noise for less heat

It’s too hard to tell. I had double-wrapped the factory mufflers, and have none of the new ones. Plus it’s 106° and no windows or AC so it hot regardless lol

[JimLev]

I hope to have the Borlas installed in the next week or 2.
I doubled wrapped the FFR mufflers which really cut down the heat that was coming up thru the aluminum floor.
As James showed the FFR mufflers have nothing inside except a few baffle plates. The Borlas are packed with insulation, without wrapping them they should run cooler than the FFR mufflers.
I’ll still wrap the Borla mufflers. I’ll post my results after I get them installed.

[RoadRacer]

Here's the fastest run from spokes event #8: