Gen 4 Coyote

[Mbufford]

After speaking with Mike Forte recently, I’m concerned that I may not be able to get a new Gen 3 Coyote due to my current lack of funds to get an engine.

So, a question for those of you who actually know something about things: based on the info available thus far, what would it take to cram a gen 4 into my MKIV engine bay?

[Alan_C]

More money and more complexity with the Gen 4 Coyote. The dual throttle bodies alone will be a challenge because, typically there is something mounted close to the radiator on the frame which would interfere with the intake plumbing and filters. If you end up being the first, good luck.
Prior generation crate motors tend to be around after production ends, however for those not wanting to use the Gen 4, Gen 3s will likely get snapped up pretty quick. You can always buy a late model Mustang or F150 at auction instead of buying new. I prefer doing that as you can save a lot of money, especially on the F150 Coyotes. With a little effort, a truck based Coyote can perform as good or better than a crate motor.

[JohnK]

When the Gen3 first came out, there was hardly any aftermarket support for it. The oil pan pickup from Moroso, for example, was very late in being released. The early Gen3 adopters like Edwardb had to get pretty creative. I would imagine that the Gen4 initially will pose similar challenges. That said, I suspect that the Gen3 crate motors will be around for a bit longer. I'm not aware that Ford has announced yet when the Gen4 will be released as a crate motor. I was shopping for an engine around the time of the Gen2/Gen3 switchover and had plenty of time to deliberate my decision after the Gen3 was out on the market before the Gen2's became hard to come by.

[edwardb]

Overall space for the Gen 4 shouldn't be any different than previous versions. All of the Coyotes have had the same footprint. So I doubt there's an issue with the overall fit. The dual throttle bodies, as already mentioned, are probably the biggest challenge. Space to route two cold air intakes plus tuning will likely be the biggest challenge. Worst case scenario, a previous gen intake manifold could likely be fitted. It's been common practice with the Coyote engines to swap around intake manifolds. Plus perhaps other more minor differences from one version to the next. Like I experienced being an early adapter of the Gen 3 as already mentioned. Historically, the crate version of the Coyotes have been available about one year after they are released and running in production vehicles. The 2024 Mustang with the Gen 3 Coyote was on dealer lots last summer. That would suggest summer 2024 as likely the first availability of a crate version. That's strictly a guess. But I wouldn't expect it any sooner. All the standard Coyotes are made in the same Ford plant in Windsor, Canada (Essex Engine Plant) and my understanding is they switch production over to the new version and stop making the previous versions. That's what Ford Performance told me when I was waiting for the Gen 3. They purchased a quantity of Gen 2's and had them on the shelf until the Gen 3's were available. They wouldn't tell me how many. I suspect a similar arrangement with the Gen 4. So you're right to think at some point the Gen 3's won't be available new. But again, all conjecture based on my experience only. No insider information.

[i.e.427]

If it were me................... and it's not. I would search for a low mileage Gen 1 or Gen 2 Coyote from a wreck. Pick up a Holley system to control it and send it.
More and more of these modern engines are getting so complicated to swap/adapt, they are making nearly impossible to hotrod. Even the Gen 3 we did just last year took a bunch of tuning from Lund to run right. JMHO

Frank

[Mbufford]

I considered that early on for both convenience and saving money. But, ultimately, I want a new engine with a warranty. There’s just too many variables when it comes to salvage engines. But, with a new one, I get to brake it in properly, and I know every bit of wear and tear out on it. With how much I’m spending to build this car, I’m not going to skimp on the engine.

If I can get a gen 3, great. It’s a known quantity, and I could get it in and working relatively quickly. If I end up having to go with a gen 4, I’ll figure it out step by step. I’d just rather not be the first to figure it out.


If I can’t get a gen 3, maybe I’ll sandbag my build a bit and do the bodywork before starting on the powertrain so someone else can figure it out first…

[42Bfast]

X2 on what i.e. 427 said.

I had planned for a new Gen2 crate engine in my build. However, due to a series of circumstance that delayed my project and ate into my budget, the price of the new crate engines exceeded the funds allocated for power plant.

I regrouped and sourced a Gen1 with 60k miles from an automatic Mustang that had been hit in the rear. (Had a video of the engine running and I checked the vin through CarFax) Paid $4k for the engine and roughly $2k for the ECU from Power By The Hour.
I’m only in go-cart mode but so far everything is working perfectly. I wouldn’t discount the viability of going used.

(Side note: I specifically went with a Gen 1 because the timing order on the Gen 1’s is the same on F150 engines as Mustang. Therefore, should I ever need to replace the engine I can easily use either and keep the same ECU and only have to change out the timing cover to use a truck engine.)

[michael everson]

Another thing to consider is just buying the actual engine now and sourcing the rest later. I think a GEN 3 coyote alone is under $8700 on Summit.
Mike

[Mbufford]

Another thing to consider is just buying the actual engine now and sourcing the rest later. I think a GEN 3 coyote alone is under $8700 on Summit.
Mike

That has crossed my mind as well. Still, funds are pretty tight right now, and it’s going to take me some time to pull together enough for the engine, even on its own. I’ll just keep my fingers crossed I can pull it together before they’re all gone.

[Alan_C]

Consider getting and using the Summit Racing credit card. They have a 6 months or more no interest payment plan based upon amount of purchase.
Three Promotional Financing Options Available.
6 Month Offer Applies to Purchases of $199-999.99
12 Month Offer Applies to Purchases of $1,000-2,499.99
18 Month Offer Applies to Purchases of $2,500 or More
On qualifying purchases made with your Summit Racing Equipment SpeedCard.
Interest will be charged to your account from the purchase date
if the promotional purchase is not paid in full within the promotional period.
Minimum monthly payments required.
Valid on purchases of in-stock merchandise only.

Summit has some discounts based upon the size of your purchase, not a lot but everything helps when you have a budget, especially if the wife sees what you are spending. Look for the absolute lowest price you can find advertised on the Internet, Summit will match it including prices on shipping. Summit has the best customer service of any vendor out there so you can buy with confidence they will take care of problems with the product or shipping. To me, using Summit, next to Forte, would be my go to for the purchase.
To save money, see if you can buy the accessory drive and alternator from a dismantler or even Ebay. The cost of these parts add up as well as the intake covers if you want them.
While the Ford Performance Control Pack has been the go to for years to wire your engine, you now have the option of using a product from Holley. I think it is their Terminator X systems. Not sure if the Holley system would save you money over the FP controls pack, but it might have programmability that the controls pack does not provide.
Last, for the add on things, wait for sales on holidays like Labor Day, the 4th, Memorial Day, Black Friday and Cyber Monday. If you don't need something now, know what stuff costs so that if you see a great price, you can snap something up at a discounted price.
Good luck.

[Its Bruce]

The LS platform is not near as complex.

...and with that turd in the punch bowl, I'll see myself out.

[kirby]

The LS platform is not near as complex.

...and with that turd in the punch bowl, I'll see myself out.

I knew someone would and probably should have. FWIW I have a gen 2 coyote in my build