Greetings From Idaho

[AndrewIdaho]

Hello All from Idaho (near Boise),

I plan to retire towards the end of the year and need my next project to keep my brain active as well as to fulfill a bucket list item: Build/Own/Drive a Roadster.

My build objective is to have the roadster be used for cruising to local events and around the mountains of Idaho and the Pacific NW. I would like the Roadster to be easy to start, have no bad driving habits (e.g., twitchy at speed) and would like to keep the look as close as possible to the original. I have done limited work on my cars (mostly in college) and extensive mechanical and electrical work as part of my job. Consequently, I am comfortable with the mechanical and electrical aspects of the build. I have no welding experience, so I do not plan any modifications that require this skill set. I have poor painting skills so will have a pro handle the body prep and painting though may do the aluminum and undercoating. I have a constraint of one garage bay for the build during the winter months so I will need to plan my build schedule carefully. I looked at the build school but the travel costs to attend while I am still working are steep (prefer the $ go towards the build), so at this time I am not planning to take advantage of the class.

Over the last few months, I have been reading the forum build threads and comments as well as the FFR documentation and videos. Based on this reading, below is the build spec that I have developed so far and would appreciate any feedback or critique.

If there are forum members in the Boise area that would be willing to share their build experience I would very much like to meet.

Thanks Andrew

FFR Configuration: Complete Kit with
- IRS
- Halibrand 17x9 and 17x10.5 Wheels
- Power Steering
- Wilwood Brakes Front and Rear
- IRS 3.55 Center Section, Spindles, and Hubs
- Powder Coated Frame
- Leather Seats
- Chrome Drivers Side Roll Bar
- Hydraulic Clutch - I assume this provides the master cylinder. Is it correctly sized?
- Delete Headers/Side Pipes and use GasN Pipes and Headers (see below)
- Vintage GPS Gauges
- 427 Layout Precut Dash
- Heater/Defroster to extend my driving season to keep the legs/toes warm. (see Heated Seats Below)
- Wind Wings
- Wiper Kit
- Body with Cut Outs

Engine: I am still deciding on which new crate engine to use and have initiated a discussion with Mike Forte to help me sort it out. Either: an SBF 302/347 with Edelebrock PoFlo4 EFI or a Ford 5.0L Coyote. I have been reading that Ford has just released the Gen 4 version that changes the air intake system, and I am reluctant to be on the leading edge of figuring out how to make it work if I cannot get a new Gen3. I would have the engine build include a power steering pump, alternator, starter, and hydraulic clutch system.

Transmission: Tremec TKX to get the flexibility of shifter position and to support the torque of the engine choices.

Additions from Others:
- Breeze: Radiator Supports and Shroud, Front Battery Tray, Adjustable seats, Offset Rack Mounting Kit
- GasN: Touring Side Pipes and Headers to match engine choice.
- Mountain Metal: RT Turn Indicator
- Drive Shaft Safety Loop
- Heated Seats to extend the driving season.
- Side Pipe Shields
- Upgraded Ball Joint Dust Boots
- Upgraded Gas Tank Seal

Still to be determined or researched:
- In tank EFI Fuel Pump/Regulator - Driven by Engine Choice
- Forte: Throttle Linkage if SBF Engine choice is made.
- Firewall forward kit: Plan to determine, need once I have the kit and assess if I think I can get everything to fit or not (wiring/heater).
- Emergency Brake - Though it is in its classic position, the location of the emergency brake is not very usable, in my opinion, to do a safe hill start. I will look at moving it (I have seen many interesting ideas on the forum) or go to an electronic emergency brake system. I will this evaluate once I have the kit and see what is involved with moving it.
- Air vents for passenger/driver foot boxes.
- Some form of simple anti-theft system to discourage joyriders.
- Body Color and Stripes: TBD (Though I am partial to British Racing Green, my wife may have other thoughts.)
- Engine Bay Aluminum Panel Color - TBD
- Undercoat: I have read that some Truck Bed Liners can leave sticky residue. Is there a reliable brush/roll option or use POR or other option?
- Wiring to support cell phone charging.
- Other Items I may have missed and discover as I continue to review build threads and forum posts.

[D Stand]

Andrew,

Welcome to the club! Looks like you have a great start to your plan. I am pretty sure that if you want a glove box and heater, you will need to move the firewall forward. I am finishing up someone else’s build and has a heater on standard firewall. There is about 1” from the heater and glovebox location. I decided to not use the glovebox and made one between the seats on the back wall to lock items like registration and insurance… As for the look on the engine, lots of opinions here. Mine is a 427 with the Holley sniper and so far it has been working out great. Has the original look but with some new school tech. But almost everyone who wants new drivability out of these cars go with the Coyote. Both are great choices.

Cheers Dale

[AndrewIdaho]

Andrew,

Welcome to the club! Looks like you have a great start to your plan. I am pretty sure that if you want a glove box and heater, you will need to move the firewall forward. I am finishing up someone else’s build and has a heater on standard firewall. There is about 1” from the heater and glovebox location. I decided to not use the glovebox and made one between the seats on the back wall to lock items like registration and insurance… As for the look on the engine, lots of opinions here. Mine is a 427 with the Holley sniper and so far it has been working out great. Has the original look but with some new school tech. But almost everyone who wants new drivability out of these cars go with the Coyote. Both are great choices.

Cheers Dale

Hello Dale,

Thank you for the kind welcome and your insight on the heater and engine choice. I am not planning on the glove box in order to keep the classic look but a lockable cubby box makes good sense. I have seen various threads with different cubby implementations that I will study further. I understand the Coyote choice as the best option from a new drivability perspective, but I am not sure I am going to be able to get a new Gen3 at the time I need it. I am specifying the ProFlo 4 Fuel Injection so I can get the advantages of port injection that I hope gets me closer to the Coyote drivability (with a more classic look ).

Best Regards, Andrew

[edwardb]

Welcome. Congrats on your upcoming retirement. I heartily endorse it. Our oldest son and family live in Nampa. So very familiar with your area. Also have family in Oregon. So we get out that direction somewhat regularly. Your build plan looks good. A few comments. I'm a huge Coyote fan (probably you've seen that already if you've been reading build threads) but agree the Gen 4 does introduce some variables that are unknown. I can only say the Coyote is rock solid and is just plain more fun to drive. Having done both. (Let the flames begin...) Good move to include power steering. You won't regret that. If you do go Coyote, I'd highly recommend the KRC setup. It's a little on the pricey side. But worth it IMO. From what I've seen, Forte uses something else. I've personally had mixed results with the footbox vents/fans. They add a fair share of work and I've never been convinced they help all that much. With an open top car, the heat of the day and sun are much more of a factor and not too much you can do about either unless you have a top. For undercoat, I assume you mean the body? I highly recommend UPOL Raptor. It's a 2-part urethane that's not hard to apply and is super durable. Can be brushed or sprayed. I've tried the various air-dry products, both latex and solvent based, and there's really no comparison. I don't recommend or see the need to undercoat the underside of the chassis (aluminum panels, etc.) if that's what you mean. Having some type of anti-theft system is debated a lot. I wouldn't stress about that. If you do make it to the build school, I'm about 30 minutes away from there. I know it's an added expense for travel, etc. But everyone who does it says it's worth it. Especially if your experience is limited. It isn't a huge part of the overall project budget. Final comment. Don't feel like you have to make every decision up front. Sure, major things like the kit order, engine, trans, etc. But a lot of the accessories or mods you've listed can be decided on and purchased during the build. Once you're into it, you'll have a better idea and maybe even change some things. Good luck.

[egchewy79]

Welcome and congrats on retirement. That dream is years away as I decided to have another kid at 42, but I digress
RE: anti-theft...may options. I figure that a manual transmission deters 95% of the population.
I have a hidden kill switch that disables my fuel pump. You can also get a quick release steering wheel and lock it in the trunk.
Apple airtags can be placed somewhere in the car or some GPS system, but if a thief wants it bad enough, it'll be on a flatbed and gone before you know it.
Looking forward to seeing your progress.

[AndrewIdaho]

Welcome and congrats on retirement. That dream is years away as I decided to have another kid at 42, but I digress
RE: anti-theft...may options. I figure that a manual transmission deters 95% of the population.
I have a hidden kill switch that disables my fuel pump. You can also get a quick release steering wheel and lock it in the trunk.
Apple airtags can be placed somewhere in the car or some GPS system, but if a thief wants it bad enough, it'll be on a flatbed and gone before you know it.
Looking forward to seeing your progress.

Hello egchewy,

Thanks for the welcome and the comments. The hidden fuel pump switch is a very good idea that fits my thoughts on a simple deterrent to joyriders and I will keep that in mind as I progress. I agree if a thief really wants the roadster, they will take it and that is what insurance is for. I looked at the Apple Airtag technology, and it is based on Bluetooth. It has an effective range of a few 100 feet and is dependent on other cellphone devices to communicate the location to Apple. I can see a thief turning that feature off on their phone and, once you get outside an urban/suburban area, I am not sure how effective a tag would be. That said, the tags are around $25 and no charge for the service and so using them in an urban/suburban environment would be an inexpensive mechanism to potentially assist in finding a stolen car. I have my amateur radio license and there is a technology called APRS that uses GPS and gives 10's of miles of range. I may consider that as something fun to do to blend the two hobbies together.

Thanks again and best regards, Andrew

[AndrewIdaho]

Welcome. Congrats on your upcoming retirement. I heartily endorse it. Our oldest son and family live in Nampa. So very familiar with your area. Also have family in Oregon. So we get out that direction somewhat regularly. Your build plan looks good. A few comments. I'm a huge Coyote fan (probably you've seen that already if you've been reading build threads) but agree the Gen 4 does introduce some variables that are unknown. I can only say the Coyote is rock solid and is just plain more fun to drive. Having done both. (Let the flames begin...) Good move to include power steering. You won't regret that. If you do go Coyote, I'd highly recommend the KRC setup. It's a little on the pricey side. But worth it IMO. From what I've seen, Forte uses something else. I've personally had mixed results with the footbox vents/fans. They add a fair share of work and I've never been convinced they help all that much. With an open top car, the heat of the day and sun are much more of a factor and not too much you can do about either unless you have a top. For undercoat, I assume you mean the body? I highly recommend UPOL Raptor. It's a 2-part urethane that's not hard to apply and is super durable. Can be brushed or sprayed. I've tried the various air-dry products, both latex and solvent based, and there's really no comparison. I don't recommend or see the need to undercoat the underside of the chassis (aluminum panels, etc.) if that's what you mean. Having some type of anti-theft system is debated a lot. I wouldn't stress about that. If you do make it to the build school, I'm about 30 minutes away from there. I know it's an added expense for travel, etc. But everyone who does it says it's worth it. Especially if your experience is limited. It isn't a huge part of the overall project budget. Final comment. Don't feel like you have to make every decision up front. Sure, major things like the kit order, engine, trans, etc. But a lot of the accessories or mods you've listed can be decided on and purchased during the build. Once you're into it, you'll have a better idea and maybe even change some things. Good luck.

Hello edwardb,

Thanks for the welcome, we live in Eagle just northwest of Boise. I have read your build threads as well as your responses to others and I appreciate the detail and clarity of what you share. It is invaluable. I think my timing and the availability of the Gen3 coyote at the time I can accept it due to my limited space will be the driving factor of my engine choice. Thanks for the insight on the KRC set up - I believe this is what comes with the FFR Roadster Coyote Power Steering option correct?

When I referenced undercoating, I was thinking of the aluminum panels and not the fiberglass body. If I choose to have the aluminum painted for aesthetic reasons, will UPOL Raptor work or is there better alternative? I have seen others undercoat the body with bedliner but have not seen the reasoning for why (other than thinking it was for aesthetic reasons). I recollect a thread in which Jeff Kleiner advised care in applying bedliner material to the body as it could impact the work required for the body shop to paint the car. I will need to go back an do a search as I forgot to book mark that thread.

Thanks for the recommendation on the build school. I will need to think about it some more and discuss with my wife and see if we can fit it into our schedule

I appreciate your final comment and I don't feel like I have to make all of the spec decisions prior to ordering the kit/engine. I find it fun to think about these options and how they would impact the build and driving of the roadster.

Best Regards, Andrew

[edwardb]

Hello edwardb,

Thanks for the welcome, we live in Eagle just northwest of Boise. I have read your build threads as well as your responses to others and I appreciate the detail and clarity of what you share. It is invaluable. I think my timing and the availability of the Gen3 coyote at the time I can accept it due to my limited space will be the driving factor of my engine choice. Thanks for the insight on the KRC set up - I believe this is what comes with the FFR Roadster Coyote Power Steering option correct?

When I referenced undercoating, I was thinking of the aluminum panels and not the fiberglass body. If I choose to have the aluminum painted for aesthetic reasons, will UPOL Raptor work or is there better alternative? I have seen others undercoat the body with bedliner but have not seen the reasoning for why (other than thinking it was for aesthetic reasons). I recollect a thread in which Jeff Kleiner advised care in applying bedliner material to the body as it could impact the work required for the body shop to paint the car. I will need to go back an do a search as I forgot to book mark that thread.

Thanks for the recommendation on the build school. I will need to think about it some more and discuss with my wife and see if we can fit it into our schedule

I appreciate your final comment and I don't feel like I have to make all of the spec decisions prior to ordering the kit/engine. I find it fun to think about these options and how they would impact the build and driving of the roadster.

Best Regards, Andrew

Yes, Factory Five has been selling the KRC setup when power steering is used with a Coyote. I've used it twice -- on a Gen 2 and a Gen 3. Bolts right in and reserves the stock A/C location which was needed for my Coupe build. I don't have buying experience with Forte, but the pictures I've seen of his Coyote package did not use KRC. I believe an OE style pump with his bracketry. In addition to the quality of the KRC pumps, they have a changeable valve to adjust boost level. A very nice feature for our builds where you don't want to overdue the boost. Plus they went to an integral reservoir some time ago, which saves time, space, and plumbing. Some would argue the OE pumps for our duty cycles are probably more than adequate, and there are ways to control the boost on those too. So like many aspects of this build, lots of choices.

I've been in this hobby for 12+ years with five different builds. I can't say how many thousand miles of driving, but a lot. All of my builds have been powder coat only on the bottom and other than dragging an occasional speed bump (grr...) I have had zero damage to the underside. Just cleaned up the Coupe a couple weeks ago ready for driving season to start, and the underside still looks brand new going into it's fourth full season and approaching 7,000 miles. So bottom line, I just don't see the need for undercoat on the chassis. I always recommend to skip it and based on what I've seen most do the same.

For undercoating the body, yes it's appearance (in the wheel wells, some seen underhood, trunk, etc.) but also to protect the body from debris coming off the tires. My practice (and others) is to put 1-2 coats everywhere and a least two more in the wheel wells and on the splash guards. When driving, not usual at all to hear things pinging under there. So highly recommended that this is part of your build plan and as I said before, after using other products, the UPOL Raptor is in a class by itself. As for timing, there are arguments to made both ways. Before and after paint. I've always done it before without any issues. It's way easier (trust me!) with the body upside down. But I'd be very hesitant to invert a fully finished body. I'm personally not aware of any big downsides to doing it before paint. Jeff Kleiner recommends not taking it right up the edge of the wheel openings. But not aware of anything else.

Hope that helps, and again good luck.

Paul B. (EdwardB)

[cc2Arider]

Hi Andrew,

Welcome to this community and your near Retirement! I'm about 2~5 years away from retirement...depending on the economy, etc

Slightly off-topic...I used to live in the Pacific Northwest and always regretted not driving a famous bit of state highway in Idaho that had "corners for 91 miles". I think it bordered a river...maybe the Salmon? Do you remember where that is? I'd like to ride/drive it some day...

Craig C

[AndrewIdaho]

Hi Andrew,

Welcome to this community and your near Retirement! I'm about 2~5 years away from retirement...depending on the economy, etc

Slightly off-topic...I used to live in the Pacific Northwest and always regretted not driving a famous bit of state highway in Idaho that had "corners for 91 miles". I think it bordered a river...maybe the Salmon? Do you remember where that is? I'd like to ride/drive it some day...

Craig C

Hello Craig,
I am guessing it is US HW 12 from Kamiah, Idaho to Lolo, Montana. It follows the Clearwater and Lochsa Rivers up to Lolo Pass at the border. It is a beautiful drive with lots of twists and turns. My favorite day drive is from Boise up to Banks (HW 55), across to Lowman and then down HW 21 to Idaho City (lots of sharp mountain turns) and then Boise. This loop can be done in about 3/4 of a day except summer weekends when the roads are very busy.
Best Regards, Andrew

[AndrewIdaho]

Late last week I placed my order for my Mk4 to take advantage of the sale as well as to avoid the pending price increase. Completion date is July 6. What I ordered matched the spec I provided earlier and I have decided to go with a 302/347 that I will order later. I also decided to go with a passenger side roll bar. I don't expect to make much progress until I retire at the end of the year but I will get through the inventory process when the kit arrives. I am excited to get started and will start a build thread once the kit arrives (late July best guess).
Andrew