Austin' 818C Build

[Ajzride]

Great pics!!

[Raven225]

Oil Question

What oil are you all running in your 818s? Please specify the type of driving you are doing.

I am on my last break in oil change and I need some suggestions for what people are running for regular use.

[Bicyclops]

Motul 8100 X-cess 5W-30 is what was recommended by my tuner.

Ed

[blomb11]

I have stuck with Rotella T6 5W-40 which is what I ran on my STI on e85 for 2 years before I sold it. I have the same oil in the 818 now in my EJ207 with a similar e85 set up. I know a lot of people like the Motul as well.

[Dave 53]

I have a friend that's a professional Subaru race car mechanic. I asked him what weight oil I should use and he said, "Motul". I asked again, what WEIGHT and he said "Motul". Yaa, but what weight? "Motul".

I have been using Motul Sport 5W40, which isn't made anymore. I have enough for one more change which I do every 9-10 track hours. I routinely get it up to 260 degrees and have had a couple of accidental 290 degree peaks at 105 degree Southern California track days. Blackstone analysis has said the oil was fine after those temps and hours.

When I figured out they stopped making the Sport 5W40, I panicked and scoured the internet for any old stock - none. Seems it was replaced with 300V Power which is probably the same stuff in a different container and sits between the 8100 and 300V Competition products. Then they discontinued that too! So now it's 8100 or 300V Competition - no more in between product. I found only one legitimate site on the whole internet that said they still had some 300V Power in stock. Probably too good to be true. I ordered 40 liters and figured I'd get a call saying they actually didn't have it. To my surprise, it showed up at my door. I opened the boxes and they sent me 300V Competition! Score!!

I just checked Amazon (shipped from Newparts) and they say they have 300V Power for $15 / liter. I don't believe it, but if it's true, I'd jump on that deal, at least for a track car. I can't remember for sure, but that's who I might have gotten my deal from, so maybe you'd get Competiton from them like I did!

Seems the 8100 is prefect for a street car.

RCM Race oil filter.

[BigDanSubaru]

I have stuck with Rotella T6 5W-40 which is what I ran on my STI on e85 for 2 years before I sold it. I have the same oil in the 818 now in my EJ207 with a similar e85 set up. I know a lot of people like the Motul as well.

Rotella T6 used to be a great oil for Subies. However, they changed their formula and removed a lot of the zinc content in the oil. This was not announced or advertised, leaving some Subies with blown motors. In talks with a local tuning shop, they noticed that the recent blown motors were all running Rotella T6. They tracked the issue down to the decrease in zinc as I mentioned. The tuning shop recommended Motul, and that is all I will run now. With a fall back being Castrol Edge (previously syntec) if I cannot source Motul for whatever reason. But it can be purchased on Amazon now, so I don't really have a problem getting it anymore. It IS expensive, but so is a new motor.

[Raven225]

Thank you all for your input I am going to get some Motul 8100 X-cess 5w30 since I am not going on the track and have been having some oil high pressure issues with the Motul 10w40 break in oil I have been running. It should get here this weekend so I hopefully can report back about it next week.

[Rob T]

Red Line Race 50wt. Really 15W50. Track use only. Not street legal. Crazy expensive. Super high ZDDP levels.

[Raven225]

Update

I received my new oil: Motul 8100 X-Cess 5w30

Did the oil change and put a little over 88miles on the car this past weekend. Oil pressure was much better once warm. Oil got to about 180F and would be ~20psi at idle and then would quickly jump to ~75psi by 2500rpm and would max out about ~80psi at 5500rpm. I never went higher rpm as I am still breaking in the motor, but everything appears to be working correctly now when it comes to oil pressure.

Enjoyed my drives significantly more than my initial one. I am getting used to the many quirks these cars have. I get lots of thumbs up and confused looks at stop lights. I have only been driving early in the morning or at night because it is hot in the car. I am not using the back hatch at the moment which causes the hot air from the engine bay to flow forward into the low pressure zone of the cab. I need to work on sealing the center hole in the fire wall that all my cords and shifter cables go through to prevent this. Next week is supposed to drop from mid 90sF down to 70F as the high so that will be amazing.

One issue that I am experiencing that I need some input on is my brake pedal will intermittently go sorta soft. Normal feel is firm as soon as you hit the pedal, but sometimes the pedal will travel roughly 3/4" and then get firm. I have a Wilwood pedal box with STI bembros. The car will still come to a stop when the pedal is soft it is just un-nerving feeling. I have bled the brakes and a few bubbles came out of the rear passenger side, but bled a few rounds and that disappeared. No bubbles out of any of the other bleeder valves just fluid.

Bonus Picture:Lake trip.jpg

[driveslikejehu]

"One issue that I am experiencing that I need some input on is my brake pedal will intermittently go sorta soft. Normal feel is firm as soon as you hit the pedal, but sometimes the pedal will travel roughly 3/4" and then get firm. I have a Wilwood pedal box with STI bembros."

I had similar feel and bleeding problems with my STI/Wilwood setup. It wasn't until I used a pressure bleeder and somebody pushing the pedal that it became quite firm.

[Raven225]

So after messing with the brake system for awhile I realized that I have a small leak on the center master cylinder. I think that at some point it got low enough to get air in there. After filling the system and bleeding it many times the pedal has not gone soft in ~200miles. I have had to add maybe 50ml of brake fluid over those 200 miles. I can see a small amount of blistering on the paint just below the center master cylinder in the pedal box. I am going to come back to that this winter when the car is up on jacks.

Tuning
I am going open source for tuning in order to achieve the ability to pass an OBDII inspection. I have a few feelers out to tuners in my area on getting a slot on a dyno, but my question to you guys is: how are you tying down your 818 on the dyno? Please provide pictures.

[Raven225]

Trip to the Dyno

Last weekend I packed the car and tools up and went down to Houston to get my open source tuned. My goals were to eliminate all of the Check Engine Lights and to achieve safe reliable power between 300hp and 350hp on 93 pump gas. Despite some build issues revealed during the dyno tuning all goals were met, but I will be going back after I make some changes.

Loaded up to head to Houston: Headed to Houston.jpg

Big shout out to Jay Are Snow for tuning my 818c. He did an amazing job and worked with me on the quirks of the 818.

The Good: I was able to hit 355hp and 323ft/lbs and all CELs have been taken care of.

The Bad: The car is running into a over boost/boost creep problem due to the fact that the blouch 1.5XTR IWG is undersized. It hit 27lbs of boost with the waste gate wide open. So the tuner pulled the rev limit way down to avoid any major issues. I am going to have to go to an EWG set up to fully eliminate the problem. I had also forgotten to hook up the Fuel Pressure Regulator Boost reference which we realized about two hours into the tuning session. Luckily I had some silicone vacuum hose with me and hooked it up and that fixed the issue where it was leaning out at higher boost.

Dyno Video and Graph: Dyno Graph 355.jpg

Conclusion: It was a great experience for me as this was my first engine build and first time doing any type of tuning. I learned a lot and had a good time. This was the first real test of my creation. I had been babying it up until now.

[Dave 53]

I hate to be a buzz kill and I'm not a tuner, but I'm seeing red flags.

You've got to tune around the hardware on the car at the time of the tune. A tune that requires the rev limiter to be set at about 6,350 rpm (is that the case?) is not a proper tune. A tune that requires such restriction on rpm is by definition, not safe or reliable and is at best, temporary. I'd keep a very close eye on the boost as you drive it and if it goes over about 18 psi, you are out of the safe and reliable zone.

A EWG is not the solution either. It's a bandaid covering up some root issue (like a bad tune). Are you sure the waste gate is working? Did you physically see the levers moving?

The fact that he took so long to tune it and that he didn't immediately pick up that there was an issue with fuel pressure is a red flag.

I'd find a different tuner. Many call themselves a tuner and very few are. In Northen California, EVERYONE in the Subaru community knows that Travis at Snail Performance is the man. The undisputed guru and only NorCal tuner that will ever touch my car. Find the Travis of Texas.

I hate to come off so negative or like I'm some sort of know it all. I hope you enjoy the car, but again, I'm not a tuner, but I don't think the guy you got is either.

[BigDanSubaru]

Those are great results, congratulations! With that large increase in power, just watch your temps on track. Especially since you are still ait-to-air TMIC like me. Although your core is much larger than my OEM STI one, heat is still an issue in mid-engine cars. Some guys have done plenum boxes from the roof intake tubes to their TMIC. Some have added fans to them. You have that louver at the back of the car which may help. Did you install the cylinder 4 cooling mod? A lot of companies make them. I incorporated that mod into the heater core delete loop hose that FFR provides. Supposed to help even out engine block coolant temps. A lot of reputable shops run them and/or recommend them to customers.

[Raven225]

I hate to be a buzz kill and I'm not a tuner, but I'm seeing red flags.

You've got to tune around the hardware on the car at the time of the tune. A tune that requires the rev limiter to be set at about 6,350 rpm (is that the case?) is not a proper tune. A tune that requires such restriction on rpm is by definition, not safe or reliable and is at best, temporary. I'd keep a very close eye on the boost as you drive it and if it goes over about 18 psi, you are out of the safe and reliable zone.

A EWG is not the solution either. It's a bandaid covering up some root issue (like a bad tune). Are you sure the waste gate is working? Did you physically see the levers moving?

The fact that he took so long to tune it and that he didn't immediately pick up that there was an issue with fuel pressure is a red flag.

I'd find a different tuner. Many call themselves a tuner and very few are. In Northen California, EVERYONE in the Subaru community knows that Travis at Snail Performance is the man. The undisputed guru and only NorCal tuner that will ever touch my car. Find the Travis of Texas.

I hate to come off so negative or like I'm some sort of know it all. I hope you enjoy the car, but again, I'm not a tuner, but I don't think the guy you got is either.

I understand some of your points so i want to explain a bit better.

After doing the cold start/low load tuning to get the speed density portion nailed down. he informed me that he was noticing some oddities with the fueling. (I do not have a Fuel pressure sensor) so He asked what kind of regulator and fuel pump i was running. I showed him the regulator and he saw that the boost reference nipple was not in use. So i rectified that situation and that fixed the fueling issue.

Once he started doing high rev pulls on the dyno he stopped and said he needed to look at how I had plumbed the boost controller because he was getting some over boost/boost creep. We both inspected and agreed it was hooked up correctly. So he suggested we by pass the Electronic boost controller to see if it was not functioning properly. This resulted in slightly less boost creep because the waste gate was effectively open as soon as any boost started building in the system. (this is how i understand it, I may be wrong.) The IWG was opening, I verified it was swinging open by watching it during two runs.

Now I do not understand what you mean by saying an EWG is a bandaid. The root cause is my IWG is not by-passing enough exhaust gasses to keep from building too high of boost. EWG were literally designed to fix that issue by providing a much larger bypass of exhaust gasses. An EWG of proper size would allow me to actually use the electronic boost controller how it was meant to be and have features such as boost by gear and such.

I am fully aware that the tune and car are not perfectly safe/reliable at this time because I could potentially over boost and have detonation if I hit WOT in the later gears. That is why I said I needed to make some changes and go back. I am completely confident in Jay Are Snow's tuning capabilities, He is a well respected tuner in the Houston area for Subarus and Miatas. I appreciate you taking the time to point out some red flags and after re-reading my post I can understand some of the concern. I think that the two issues arose from my lack of experience. I kinda knew the bigger turbo might mean I need to go to EWG set up, but I did not want to spend the money if I didnt have too.

[Dave 53]

I overreacted a bit. I should have a have asked a few questions and not jumped to conclusions. I appreciate the clarifications.

I've had a couple of conversations with "tuners" that absolutely exposed their ignorance. I probably (incorrectly) put tuners in two camps - the far and few between good ones and the far too many that think they are, but aren't. I'm probably too quick to pigeonhole a tuner as soon as I see what I perceive to be a red flag. I'm glad to hear your guy has a good reputation and you have confidence in him.

I recall a refreshing (in his honesty) conversation I had with a "kid" after one of my tunes. He asked how much power I got - 273whp. I asked him about his car - 400whp. I asked if it was reliable. "No. That's why I'm here. It blew up." Perhaps my engine is undertuned for reliability and I'm leaving some power on the table, but my tuner said he got all he could out of it on pump gas (an overly simplistic statement). So, when I hear 355 safe and reliable hp on 93, first I'm jealous, then I question - how? How that much power and still reliable? Are the tuner and owner aligned on what safe and reliable means?

I looked up your turbo and it seems to be designed for our application and is advertised to be good up to 480hp. So, something just doesn't seem right here. I'm still questioning the diagnosis that the design of the turbo is inadequate. I'm just suggesting maybe something else is causing the problem. It was improper for me to suggest that maybe it was a ****ty tune.

Tuners... Reminds me of a saying about doctors. You know what they call the guy that graduates from medical school last in his class?

Peace

[Raven225]

I have seen the 1.5XTR go up to 500hp on E85. According to my tuner and a few other people I have talked to say that the bleeding edge for 93 on the EJ25 is 400hp or so. Also we would need to talk about Temp, Humidity, type of dyno and other factors to really be talking apples to apples on the HP amount. For example the dyno I am on is an inertia dyno which as I understand are not as accurate as a loaded dyno would be. Also lets be real here 100hp or my 87.5hp per cylinder is not going to be sustainable on the track for a long period of time, but since I mostly drive on the street and will be doing a few short events it can be managed as long as I am not WOT for an extended period of time.

[Raven225]

Those are great results, congratulations! With that large increase in power, just watch your temps on track. Especially since you are still ait-to-air TMIC like me. Although your core is much larger than my OEM STI one, heat is still an issue in mid-engine cars. Some guys have done plenum boxes from the roof intake tubes to their TMIC. Some have added fans to them. You have that louver at the back of the car which may help. Did you install the cylinder 4 cooling mod? A lot of companies make them. I incorporated that mod into the heater core delete loop hose that FFR provides. Supposed to help even out engine block coolant temps. A lot of reputable shops run them and/or recommend them to customers.

I do have the cylinder 4 cooling mod installed.

[Raven225]

Update Part 1

A lot has happened since I last posted back in February. I will probably break it all up into three parts.

The main issue I ran into during my first trip to the Dyno was the overboost/boost creep issue. The internal waste gate in the turbo was not big enough to bypass enough exhaust gases to keep the boost down to a safe level. The car was hitting 27psi with waste gate open the whole time. We were shooting for around 20psi max so major problem. My solution to this was to go to an external waste gate set up. I originally wanted to avoid this for a few different reason ranging from extra cost to issues with passing emissions/inspection with an external waste gate, but here we are. I ended up getting a CNT EWG uppipe and a Tial MVS 38mm waste gate. While going down this rabbit hole I decided to also upgrade from the OEM exhaust manifold to a equal length header. I ended up getting a great deal on a Killer B Holy Header.

Killer B Holy Header pic:Exahust Manifold.jpg

I wanted to do some heat shielding for the whole exhaust system and I ended up going a little over board. I used DEI's Titanium Exhaust wrap as the base layer and then did dimpled Aluminum shielding around that secured with SS zip ties. This was as close as I could get to what professional race teams use for their heat shielding with the tools and experience i had. The exhaust wrap was pretty straight forward and easy. Watched a few videos and did it. The Aluminum shielding was a little bit more tricky, especially when I got to the exhaust manifold. Things quickly got complicated and kind of ugly. Thankfully most people wont ever see it. I also did the same thing to the down pipe and EWG dump tube. I do not currently have photos of that to share.

Wrapped Upipe: Uppipe Wrapped.jpg
Shielded Uppipe: Upipe Shielded.jpg

Unfortunately I didnt getting any photos of the wrapped headers.

Shielded Headers: Exhaust Manifold Shielded 3.jpgExhaust Manifold Shielded 2.jpgExagsut Manifold shielded 1.jpg

Once that was all done I installed the new exhaust system. Everything went smoothly and fit.

In the next update I will cover the rest of the changes I made before I went down to the Dyno again and have more pics of the exhaust system.