Lance's Roadster Build Thread-Sub Belt Seat Pass thru

[F500guy]

Thanks Jeff, It will be on the inside of steering bracket and I plan to keep the outside of the steering shaft open, thanks for the great advice and always supporting the community!

[Rebostar]

Lance
Looks good. When you go to fire it up give me a call and I'll drive over and hold the fire extinguisher. Sounds like your getting close. I need to score some of those carbon fiber panels. I think you told me where you got'em but I forgot! I have some really great ideas for the lower switch / circuit breaker panel and want to use the carbon fiber. Give a shout if I can help in any way.
Allyn

[F500guy]

carbon Panels.JPG
Amazon...

[F500guy]

My son came over this weekend and assisted with the rear Aluminum, so good to be done with that, we got the upper trunk, side walls and rear wall completed
Rear Wall.JPGPassenger Side Al rear panel.JPGDriver side Rear AL Panel.JPGTrunk Al complete.JPG

[F500guy]

I completed the Dash final details, the under dash panels, EPAS controller and installed. I Used modern plastic fasteners for the under dash panel-to-Dash connection. They appear to be pretty good and I am happy. I bought several types to test and settled on a screw in type. The center portion is completely removable while the dash is installed to help access some of the switches and wiring. I installed the EPAS controller under the steering wheel for easy access.
Center Console under dash panel.JPGDash Final.JPGDriver Side under dash.JPG

But, Had 1 issue, hope I can fix without taking it back out-Center under dash light does not work, no voltage on the bulb supply wire....ARRGH!!!

[F500guy]

As a final note, I finally got to test out my EPAS! I dropped the car on the wheels today (Garage door spring broke today and I needed to move the car back for the work) and was able to go lock to lock with my little pinky finger using the steering knuckle! I think I am going to like this!
EPAS Final Install.JPGEPAS Parts Powder Coated.JPG

[egchewy79]

good tip jeff. I used nutserts to be able to remove the dash supports.

[Rebostar]

Lance, the dash looks awsome. Love where you put the circuit breakers. I ordered several of those carbon fiber panels. I'll use one to drop the center of the dash down to the tunnel cover to install all the switches. One for under the right dash for all the circuit breakers and one under the left dash for the EPS switch panel. Really glad your out front blazing the trail for me!
Allyn

[F500guy]

So, now that it is spring time almost, (had a few days of nice weather any way) my volunteer job picks up and my other household task pick up so build progress probably take a hit. Does not help when I bend installed panels.
I was jacking up to do the lower rad hose and my rubber block on the jack was not well positioned and it skidded to the side and the jack caught the bottom of the F-panel, so it got bent a little bit, enough that i want to replace it. So i ordered a new one.

I did get the radiator installed. Tested the Factory provided overflow tank-Only 30 ounces and does not fit well due to the alternator location. So, having heard all the stories about whether it is big enough or not, for my purpose I decided to go after market canton 1.75 qt with sight tube. I will post another question about clearance at that location on another post.

Lower rad Hose.JPGRadiator.JPGRecovery Tank Location.JPGUpper Rad hose.JPG

Obtained a 90 degree hose to do the elbow off the engine. For the corrugated hose, I added (4) 5/32 stainless rivets around 1 rib at the end of the tube. I got some bolt style clamps to install as well.

Went thru my parts and and cannot find the shoulder bolts for the hood hinges not sure if they would be in the hing parts bag or generic fastner box, but I do not remember seeing them ever and do not have a line item on the inventory. Sourced from McMaster , waiting on delivery

[F500guy]

Lance, the dash looks awsome. Love where you put the circuit breakers. I ordered several of those carbon fiber panels. I'll use one to drop the center of the dash down to the tunnel cover to install all the switches. One for under the right dash for all the circuit breakers and one under the left dash for the EPS switch panel. Really glad your out front blazing the trail for me!
Allyn

Allyn, those are actually the dash gauge setup and adjustment buttons. Includes fuel and tach (2 buttons in the rear) and speedo, clock and dimmer (3 buttons in the front.) But, that would be a good place for the ckt breakers.

[F500guy]

Slowly prepping for first start, maybe this weekend.

1) Added oil, cranked the motor for some pre-lube a few times, I just like being able to turn the key....
2) installed overflow/recovery tank and filled everything with water. Pulled a plug in the manifold to vent the block.
Overflow recovery tank (1).JPG
3) Secured the wiring harness in front to the radiator shroud with some screws and clamps
P4280017.JPG
4)Installed trunk struts and started filling all the aluminum gaps so I can install the sound mat.
Rear Struts Installed.JPG
5)attached the side pipes, torqued the headers. I will put some hangers at the ball joint as others have done and redo some of the hardware and add gasket sealer later, I know these will be off and on a couple times before I am done and I used the kit provided supplies except the bolts to connect the header to the ball flange, could not find anything in the kit that would work so i got some.
Driver Side Headers.JPGPassenger Side Headers.JPG
6) i also decided to re-do rear brake line exit from driver compartment, pulled it to the inside instead of outside the front of the foot box and redid all the rear brake bleeding.
Redone rear brake line cockpit.JPG
7) I also ended up re-doing the rear toe link chassis side heim and bolt. I continued to have play in the toe link on the passenger side and traced it down to a loose heim joint. I went ahead and replaced the bolt with a full length shank bolt and some good aurora rod ends. Huge difference in those compared to the kit supplied parts and makes me feel better about it. Not cheap, but worth it. I did both passenger and driver side although the passenger side did not have the same issue as the driver side did.

getting ready for starting, I will get some gas this week!

[F500guy]

Was hoping to do first start this weekend, but I could not get the pump to pump. I was able to suck fuel thru to the pump using my lips...., but the pump would not pump. I did not dis-assemble, just ordered a new pump that will get here next week. A little baffled, only thought that comes to my mind is it sitting for a year and the diaphragms wont seal now. I continued on other items.

Started my interior insulation, but I ran out so, on order...Finished the Passenger foot box, started the driver foot box and mostly done with the trunk.
Passenger Side.JPGTrunk Partial.JPG

Made my clutch stop, although not sure if it is important or how to set it up to prevent the throw out bearing from over travel as I can not measure it when installed.
Used a piece of square tube, welded a nut on back side the welded it to the foot box 3/4 tube. Added a rubber end and second nut to lock it after adjusting. Will post on the forum for some input

Clutch Stop installed.JPGClutch Stop Part Togather.JPGClutch Stop Parts.JPG

[Jeff Kleiner]

You don't have in and out reversed on the pump do ya'? I ask because I've been there

Jeff

[Mike.Bray]

You don't have in and out reversed on the pump do ya'? I ask because I've been there

Jeff

That happened to me one time when I connected the battery backwards. The horn sucked and the radio listened

[F500guy]

Thanks, I did check that early on even thought it came 1/2 plumbed from BPE. I also received an Edelbrock pump today, put it right back in the box and submitted a return, the threads were @#$! and the casting looks like it came from a 3rd world country just now learning to make things, not what I expected for a "Made In USA" label.

[Rebostar]

Lance. I had the exact same thing happen to me when I bought a new Holley mechanical pump. It looked like it was made in Pakistan...in a mud hut! I sent it back to Summit and got a Carter. The offer still stands if you want my new Carter pump. If you like it, just keep it and get me a replacement.
Allyn

[zarnold]

Are you certain that the engine was set up for mechanical vs. electric fuel pump? I see the mechanical fuel pump in previous pictures, but how do you test to see if a eccentric was installed on the camshaft? BPE starts all engines (right?), but not necessary using the delivered fuel delivery system.

[F500guy]

There is rub marks on the lever arm and although I am not completely familiar with these, there does appear to be a disk like item that has marks similar to the pump lever that go around it.

[zarnold]

There is rub marks on the lever arm and although I am not completely familiar with these, there does appear to be a disk like item that has marks similar to the pump lever that go around it.

That sounds right. Very weird that the pump would be bad, but I guess it happens.

[F500guy]

hope the Video Link works, but got a running beast today. Big thanks to Rebostar for coming over and helping, he knows his way around these engines way more than me! Had a few issues, some simple water leaks, a bit af questioning about the choke operation, but in the end it seemed to be working OK. Tested the temperature of the fan and thermostat, all worked as expected. Oil pressure and water temperature looked OK.

I wanted to relay my findings on the fuel pump that did not work, got curious and tore it apart and I found that 1 of the suction side diaphragms did not seem to have enough tension to seat, way different than the other one of the pair, so that was my failure analysis...

Issues that will need to address
1) Tach is wonky. Seems to work ok at idle, although I did break out another RPM measuring device and the dash seemed to be about 100-200 high at 900 on my other instrument reading, but was really wonky was revving the motor, it would jump all over the place, up over 5K for a maybe 2-3K Rev, a lot of noise there.

2) The volt meter in the dash was reading 12 volts and my voltmeter on the battery was reading 14.5 with the motor idling. I do have a low volt indicator light in the dash, not sure if that could be impacting the volt meter since it is located at the supply to the volt meter

3) Bottom pulley looked like the wheel of a clown car, so we checked run out, then pulled the pulley and checked the run out on the harmonic balancer, which was good, so will need to get some different bolts and remove the plastic piece that is used to center the pulley, it really does not work well to center the pulley.

4) First Stab at the clutch stop was not enough throw, so I removed my stop to shift the transmission so I could roll the car forward and back, will have to dial that in.

If anyone has had similar issues with solutions, please post. I will contact Speed Hut In the next week or 2. Got the body out of its secure storage location so I can start that.

Next Up alignment, lock down the steering wheel, but in the belts and drive it!

[Rebostar]

Lance
Was great seeing your car again. I hope mine has as few "initial start" issues as you did. Lots of good work done to only have a few issues, none of which were attrutable to your work. A stuck choke, a wonky Tach, and the crank pully improperly installed by Blueprint. I'll be a happy camper if I have a similar 1st run. Also great to meet your son and your freinds.

[F500guy]

Slow progress lately, but progress any way! Working on interior insulation, Dead Pedal and details from first start.

1) Insulation work-Hard part is done, finished the trunk, rear wall and driver and passenger foot boxes. A bit more tedious than anticipated. Will finish the main floor and tunnel after seat install. Note to self, when making a template make sure you don't make a mirror image-it wont stick! I used carpet pieces for some of my templates and that worked great.
Driver foot box with dead Pedal.JPGPassenger side.JPGRear Wall.JPGTrunck.JPG

2)Clutch adjustment-Well all great intentions and plans meet reality. I got lucky and ended up with a non-adjustable clutch stop, had to use the full stroke and remove my rubber bumper to get enough throw on the clutch, but it is about perfect so hope it does not change later.

3)Wonky tachometer-Speed hut sent me a filter that I just wired in. Will be testing later today.
Tach Filter.JPG


4) Volt meter test-It appears that the volt meter is reading accurately at just above 12 volts at dash power when the alternator and battery is 14.5. I believe the "low Voltage" indicator light sets voltage due to the circuit. I do not think I need to run another separate wire to get the full voltage-but maybe if I take the dash back off I will look at that to separate out the feed to the indicator and the dash power supply. As is everything works so why mess with it.

5) front Pulley-going to run with it, looks much better after we messed with it so I will not concern myself.

6) Installed the dead pedal, did a little mod to Breeze item-drilled some holes to attempt to match the pedals, looks good and feels correct, changed location a couple times to get it correct.

I did reposition the car in my garage to give better access for alignment, so will start that next week.
I have a bit of a conundrum for seats, I asked the question before about time to drill and was recommended to wait for body positioning, but I have a lot of leg room and can not get a solid seat positioning with out mounting. Wanted that for some good pedal evaluation when I go cart. Since I am using sliders, I decided to use the measurements from the F5 installation guide and will be pre-mounting the seats before go-cart.

[F500guy]

completed the alignment this last week. Went OK, except my dyslectic toe reading for the front, had to redo that one! I finished up in a hurry and had to run somewhere. The next day I was looking at the front end, something was not right...put the toe plates back on and said what was I thinking? Re-adjust and check camber and all was good. Front end took some time, but only setting up the caster and keeping camber in in a happy place, also the toe is not exactly where I wanted, seems 1 turn on the tie rod makes a big change, so a little extra toe instead a a little less for hopefully better stability. Hardest part is the rear toe-Trying to ensure there is no side thrust and getting both tires centered.

I use a combination of string, lasers, toe plates and angle measuring device. for my turn plate, a couple floor tiles with some grease between them and my angles marked on the floor. A little ghetto, but works fine.

Lazer setup.JPGFancy Turn Plate 1.JPGCorner weight.JPG

Also, before the alignment I was able to set ride height and then adjust corner weight. I think I may like a bit more rear weight, and I only had about 1/2 driver simulated weight in the seat (about 85 pounds).

Next up finish insulation and evaluating seat mounting, I just can not do a proper test drive until I feel good about not sliding around in the seat.

[Rebostar]

Hey Lance
Where did you score those scales? Are they yours? If so can I borrow them in a few months? Thanks for stopping by on Tuesday, enjoyed the chat.
Allyn

[Jeff Kleiner]

Numbers look good but 2,200 pounds for the go cart alone is kinda' chubby!

Jeff

[F500guy]

You can use them, no problem.

Its just a, baby no diet yet. Not much more to go on, so Will weight again at adult hood!

[F500guy]

Went and dropped the body on for the first time, couple areas of concern but still have some manipulating to do with forum information before I cry UNCLE. I needed body position for my seat mount. Got some great info from Dave about lining up the sliders, best not to use the FF slider measurements for the standard seat, they will leave you out of bounds on the outside of the seat. Not sure, maybe they were meant for the Kirkey seats. I did drill one set of holes in my seat bottum per the FF measurements, then went to see how it sat in the car and it was to far to the outside. Used Dave's measurements and swapped the seat to the passenger side and looks better, will post some pictures after I drill into the floor.

P6130016.JPGP6130017.JPGP6130018.JPG

As seems to be recent, hood drops in, some gaps look over sized with out trimming.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Install the sliders so that they're parallel to the trans tunnel and set the seats so that they are "skewed" on the sliders and point straight ahead. This way the seats will remain equidistant from the tunnel as they move forward and back...if you install the sliders parallel to the chassis tubes as you move the seat forward the front inside corner will hit the tunnel.

Jeff

[JMD]

Install the sliders so that they're parallel to the trans tunnel and set the seats so that they are "skewed" on the sliders and point straight ahead. This way the seats will remain equidistant from the tunnel as they move forward and back...if you install the sliders parallel to the chassis tubes as you move the seat forward the front inside corner will hit the tunnel.

Jeff

Great tip, Jeff. Will remember that when I mount my seats in the next few weeks.

Love the build! Hoping to catch up with you in the next month or so. Were you able to get a good alignment without having to cut the front upper control arm threaded ends? I cut the tubular sections per many suggestions to get Kleiner's recommended front geometry as a starting point but noticed the threaded legs were very close to touching each other. Hoping not to have to cut those to get sufficient negative camber.

[Blitzboy54]

I'm late to the party on this thread. First I really like your dash setup. It's the best CF arrangement I have seen to date. I will likely (definitely?) going to steal a few ideas from you.

Very clean look all around.

[F500guy]

Real life gets in the way of fantasy life sometimes, little shop time the last month or so, but I finally finished off the passenger and driver side insulation and seat mounts. I purchased sparco seat slider-they latch on both sides and seemed a bit more robust, but with that comes a bit more work. Thanks to Jeff and Dave to give me some insight and tips, especially the spotting bit for drilling, no walking bits for that! Not sure yet If i will like them, they seam nice but they raise the seat almost 2 inches by the time all the stuff is added and the carpet is in....time will tell.
Sparco Slider.JPG
Lay Out:
Minor body fit before I measured out the seat tracks, clearance is tight, having the body on helped locate the seat without interfering. Used Dave's recommendation for this-Inside slider was mounted first along the 4 inch main frame tube, rear hole was offset 3/8 inside center line and front hole was located 3/8 inch outside center line. Both Holes taped for 5/16-24 with out any issues.
Slider hole lay out.JPG

I then placed the seat on the tracks (inside bolted down out side not yet drilled) and adjusted seat to clear the body work. this ended up being 1.75 inches inside the seat frame rail, so I measured that up and drilled the seat frame for the inside track mounting. Then drilled the holes on the seat frame for the out side track about 1 inch inside the seat frame, mounted the out side track to the seat frame. This slider required 1/2 clearance from the seat frame to be able to actuate, so I modded the seat from with 1/2 x 1 inch tube, drilled that to match the seat frame. Drilled the holes 1 bit size over to allow for some wiggle to ensure the seat tracks will be parallel after all is done. Passenger side clears the parking brake, but that seat will only be moved for cleaning/access.
Extra brace.JPGSeat Clearance.JPG

With both tracks attached to the seat, I placed the seat in the car and marked and drilled the outer track holes in the floor-rear hole goes thru the 2x2 frame, front hole thru the steel floor.. Critical step here-Make sure the sliders are matching on inside and out. I had an issue with one slider 1 click off the other side and left my hole 1/4 inch off, so I had to drill a new hole in the track to match the floor. With every thing bolted in, and operational, I tac welded the extra frame piece to the seat frame so it would all be 1 piece. I then put a coat of black paint on the seat frame and some expanded PVC in the seat center
Expanded PVC Bottum.JPG
Last thing to do was mod the seat latch handle, so I cut the provided piece welded it back together with a little flat plate to ease the operation
Slider handle.JPG

And the end result
Seat driver side.JPG

A lot of work for me with the usually (AAARGH, did I really just do that!), makes the Breeze seat mount look a lot better after that! But they work and hope to go-kart this weekend.

[F500guy]

Well, as the new title states, I got her out of the garage today, I quit counting at the 4th guest that I took around the block, probably 7 miles around the block. A very different experience than my Miata, pretty darn fun. 500 HP is a lot of fun! I will need to adjust the throttle a bit to give me more pedal motion and less carb, should be pretty easy to do. The sliding seats are a hit, my son was able to drive it pretty comfortable at 6'2, I am 5'6. Everything worked great, great acceleration, braking and turning.

https://www.facebook.com/lance.spier...4eBRV5PnZwb9Jl

[Rebostar]

Lance, outstanding!. What a great milestone. Sure is looking good. I went with the FFR sliders, I did make a couple seat risers though. You put a bunch more work in to yours!! Good on ya! Thanks for the Radiator pic, it let me know I had to wait on the Breeze stuff. So now that all the fun stuff is done, are you gonna start on the body soon?
Allyn

[F500guy]

Speaking of radiators, I am going to have to change my top mount. As has been posted, there is not enough clearance between the top of the rad and the Frame. I attached the rad to the front of the breeze hinge and I will have to undo that and attach the rad to the back side of breeze hinge. i thought there was enough clearance, but the vibration and such showed it to be rubbing on the radiator.

[Wizbangdoodle]

I just stumbled across your build from a link you left in another thread. Glad I found it, because I bought that exact seat slider and have been mulling about how to get it mounted. I'll be following your lead on this.

[F500guy]

Working on a couple "Do-Overs" before I get to the real work on setting the body.

1) I am officially in the "Failed Ball Joint Boot" club so will be replacing those, not much experience on ball joints, so a good learning
2) Replacing my bent F-panel, decided to do both sides and not pre-drill for the elephant ears
3) Decided to pull the trigger on replacing Wilwood masters with Tilton before I close up the driver foot box.

Is what it is!

Build on!

[Rebostar]

Working on a couple "Do-Overs" before I get to the real work on setting the body.

1) I am officially in the "Failed Ball Joint Boot" club so will be replacing those, not much experience on ball joints, so a good learning
2) Replacing my bent F-panel, decided to do both sides and not pre-drill for the elephant ears
3) Decided to pull the trigger on replacing Wilwood masters with Tilton before I close up the driver foot box.

Is what it is!

Build on!

Lance, did you have any issues with your Wilwood M.C's? I read a thread earlier about brake issues and J.K. mentioned issues with the Wilwood's. I too have a soft peddle, but I did not bleed them per Wilwood, right, front and rear then left front and rear. I did it the way I've always done them, started with furthest away and worked back to the left front. I'll be re-doing it the Wilwood perscribed method before I get to exited about the peddle feel. I did bench bleed the MC's first, then a pressure bleed from the resivoirs. I also want to bolt in the drivers seat so I get a good feel for it. I'll let you know how it turns out.
Allyn

[F500guy]

So, not as much time to work on things, but whittling away a couple items and waiting parts.

Got the ball joint support completed, (No battle plan ever survives first contact), used Jeff K. recommendation. Sourced some hooks and turn buckles from McMaster and an extra set of exhaust hangers from Amazon.
1) Had to modify the hooks and open them up to fit the rubber
2) had to cut 1/4 inch off each end of the turn buckle to be able to really tension the whole set up.
3) Put some black BBQ high temp paint (Note after this I noticed ACE Hardware had some black ones on the rack, could have saved me some shipping and black paint!)
4) Fully functional!
Ex Ball Joint Support.JPG

I completed my redo of the F panels, no drama there.

Adjusted the forte Throttle link to give a little more pedal play to full open.
Forte link adjust.JPG

Moved the Radiator support to the rear of the breeze hinge assembly, gave me enough clearance for the radiator to the front 3/4 tube.
Breeze rad Support.JPG

Current hold up
1)Got me 3 new Tilton M/C, but the outlet is 3-AN instead of 1/8 NPT, so more hardware and hope it will not have to much impact on my plumbing, I will cover that when done. They also have 5/16 instead of 1/4 reservoir hose, so some rework on that will be coming up.
2)Got my new boot covers for the ball joints. Part number in the picture, but I was really UN-satisfied with the lower boot, would not cover the ball joint when it was skewed, top was great. I ended up ordering another part I found on the forum and waiting for that to arrive. Used a pickle fork and no issues separating the joints.
Ball joint Boot.JPG

[Rebostar]

Looking good lance. I really like those exhaust supports. Do they stay on after the side pipes are properly mounted? Seems like the added support might be a good thing to keep long term.

[egchewy79]

Looking good lance. I really like those exhaust supports. Do they stay on after the side pipes are properly mounted? Seems like the added support might be a good thing to keep long term.

Those exhaust hangers were initially used with shorty headers and J pipes as they were known to sag and stress/crack the J pipe over time.
In the past, with 4 into 4 long tube headers, hangers were not needed. With the addition of the ball joint in the headers, the hangers will help keep the side pipe from sagging over time.

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/first...2#post-6105372
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