Time to Design a New Shop

[smithtlw]

As many of you know, I'm moving to Missouri in a couple of weeks. I now have the opportunity to design and build another shop. Here is an initial design idea I've drafted up:







As drawn, the building is 50' wide x 30' deep with an additional 20' x 12' workshop and bathroom area. The center door on the front is 16' x 10' and the three smaller doors are 10' x 9'. The ceiling is 12' to accommodate a lift and the left bay is a drive-through for my tractor.

What would you all do differently? The size is constrained by the building envelope that I have, so I can't go bigger than the 1,740 square feet that I have with maybe some minor tweaks possible (a foot here or there).

Lots of good thoughts here - I'll echo the radiant heat suggestion especially with high ceilings. It is way more comfortable to work when floor is actually radiating heat to you instead of sucking the heat out of you. Can actually keep the air temperature lower and still be comfortable. I also used a small tankless hot water heater and has been going strong for 10+ years.

I am curious what software you used to design the above?

Todd

[Papa]

I am curious what software you used to design the above?

Todd

The software I'm using for the design is DreamPlan Home Design, which has a free trial version you can order and download from Amazon. It's very basic, but enough to get some decent visuals. The non-trial version is $40.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1?ie=UTF8&th=1

[Jeff_J.]

I use my computer in the garage all the time I haven't installed the smart TV on a swivel mount yet. (if no one mentioned it already..) You'll need more seating for all the visitors you'll have to marvel at the garage!!

[bobl]

I'm sure you've taken this into consideration, but try to place your doors to get the best possible cross breeze and take that afternoon sun into account....I'm from Texas so my priorities are different. LOL. It gets plenty hot and humid in Missouri! One of the hottest days of my life was at an outdoor wedding in Joplin Mo. in August.

Bob

[JimLev]

3rd or 4th the radiant floor heating as well as mini-splits for AC/heat.
Maybe a good size I-beam so you can hang a winch on it for pulling engines or anything heavy.
I had 2 in my last house, they were very handy.

[UpNorth]

Heated floor, a blessing while building my Daytona.
Electrical outlet on the ceiling, useful…once in a while.
I don’t know but after getting a heated floor one must be careful not drilling into heating mesh or tubular if liquid heated.Just asking…

Francois

[MC Builders]

Transom windows over garage door add some natural light when the doors are closed and I am all for radiant heat, I have 2 "garages" with radiant and there is nothing better in may opinion and for $75/month for 1400sq feet with 18 ft high celings in MA at 60 degrees I don't complain

[Papa]

Update: Trying to find a builder that could do the shop this year at a price that made sense put me on a completely different path. Here is what we ended up going with!



The building will go up this summer (August timeframe).

[JimStone]

I like it! Tall ceilings and a covered porch to put your BBQ

[Papa]

I like it! Tall ceilings and a covered porch to put your BBQ

Yep! I did 14' ceilings with high-lift garage door tracks and header-mount openers. The doors will line up with my existing driveway for a nice straight-in entry. The concrete will be 5" thick to easily accommodate a lift. I still need to work out the electrical details, but plan to go with surface mount wiring in conduit. The walls will be finished from the floor to a height of 8' in OSB and then metal the last six feet. The ceiling will be metal and the entire building will be fully insulated, including the doors.

[Skuzzy]

Might want to have piers poured where the lift pads will sit. When I built my garage, I specified the lift and the weight and the concrete engineer drew in 4' piers under the pads with 3/4" cross-tied rebar. My soil also has a lot of clay in it, and that was a factor as well. 11 years later and not a single hair line crack anywhere on the slab.

Just a thought.

[Windsor]

My soil also has a lot of clay in it...

That's the "gift that keeps on giving" here in North Texas.

[Wizbangdoodle]

All of these suggestions are excellent. If you can swing it, do them all.

As for me, my shop has 15' ceilings and those round LED lights mentioned earlier in the thread. It's like daylight in here. I have 3 bays with doors on 2 of them. Big bay has 14' high doors and small bay has 10' high doors. The doors are at each end, so you can drive straight through the garage. Snagged a 2 post lift from a friend of a friend for dirt cheap. It's a total of 2200sqf. The rest of the house has radiant floor heat, but I did not put it in the garage. Don't really regret it, but might do it if I had to do it over again. Radiant floor heat is the bomb. Absolutely love it. I did install a wood stove in the corner near my computer, so it's nice and comfy in the winter. Even when it's very cold out, that little stove will keep it about 65 inside. I love my shop.

https://barnpros.com/structures/coac...oach-house-56/

This is what we built with several modifications.

[Winchester67]

And outlets every six feet. Never enough outlets. And run 220 volt even if you don't weld now. Easier to have it at the ready. Steve McQueen Days in Slater MO this Saturday. You going? McQueen spent some of his troubled childhood in Slater with relatives, so it is a small town claim to fame. Usually a good car show. I will take the Cobra or the Corvette. IMG_0783.jpgFront.jpg

[Winchester67]

Computers fight me at every turn. IMG_0780.jpg

[Winchester67]

I give up. You get the idea anyway.

[Papa]

And outlets every six feet. Never enough outlets. And run 220 volt even if you don't weld now. Easier to have it at the ready. Steve McQueen Days in Slater MO this Saturday. You going? McQueen spent some of his troubled childhood in Slater with relatives, so it is a small town claim to fame. Usually a good car show. I will take the Cobra or the Corvette. IMG_0783.jpgFront.jpg

Can't make it Saturday, but sounds like fun. I agree on the electrical. I've already discussed doing 200amp service with outlets just above workbench level with 20amp circuits throughout. I'll need 220 for multiple things... compressor, A/C, lift, and possibly more.

[Winchester67]

Summer just started, I am sure we will run into each other sooner or later. Welcome to the slow lane life in Missouri!

[gbranham]

Are you going to put in a 2-post or 4-post lift? Definitely use reinforced piers or thicker slab for a 2-post. 5" is plenty for a 4-post.

[Papa]

Are you going to put in a 2-post or 4-post lift? Definitely use reinforced piers or thicker slab for a 2-post. 5" is plenty for a 4-post.

I'm going to do a 4-post this round and I may not bolt it down and use casters for mobility.

[Papa]

Progress on the new shop!

[Papa]

Another update...

[Papa]

This thing is going up fast!

[Skuzzy]

Looks good. What kind of floor is it going to have?

[Papa]

Looks good. What kind of floor is it going to have?

The floor will be a 5" concrete slab over a rock base. The interior will be fully insulated with OSB sheeting on the lower 8' and metal on the upper 6' of the walls and ceiling.

[Papa]

I'm currently researching air compressors, mini-splits, and four-post lift options. Please offer up any recommendations. I'm leaning heavily towards keeping the lift movable on castors vs. bolting it down.

[JimLev]

I’ve got Carrier split airs (AC and heat) in the house and in the garage.
Not sure what size your garage is or the summer heat load.
Might be a good idea for the garage AC compressor to be capable of connection more than one inside unit to it, just in case you later find out that you need more cooling/heating.

[Papa]

I’ve got Carrier split airs (AC and heat) in the house and in the garage.
Not sure what size your garage is or the summer heat load.
Might be a good idea for the garage AC compressor to be capable of connection more than one inside unit to it, just in case you later find out that you need more cooling/heating.

The building is 30x40x14 interior volume (16,800 cubic feet). I'm being told that I will need ~36,000BTU for the mini-split. I like having multiple inside units (zones) to help distribute the heating/cooling across the entire building.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Dave, I said before and will say again I really, REALLY recommend that you look into radiant floor heating. I learned with my shop (12 foot ceilings) that with a forced air heating system the warm air ends up at the top, even with ceiling fans. In the winter when working at ground level you'll be cool, go up a 6 foot stepladder and you'll be hot.

Jeff

[Papa]

Dave, I said before and will say again I really, REALLY recommend that you look into radiant floor heating. I learned with my shop (12 foot ceilings) that with a forced air heating system the warm air ends up at the top, even with ceiling fans. In the winter when working at ground level you'll be cool, go up a 6 foot stepladder and you'll be hot.

Jeff

Jeff,

I hear you, but the cost/benefit analysis tells me that I can save the money and use it in other areas. I won't be using the shop if it's too cold to work in and my budget is already pushed way over what the wife is happy with.

Dave

[JimLev]

Jeff does make a good point. We have radiant heated floors in the house.
It will take a LONG time for a 5” slab to heat up to start radiating heat. To be effective you’d have to keep the slab somewhat warm all winter.

When I use the heat from the mini-splits it doesn’t take too long before the rooms are warm.
My electrical costs for using the mini-splits heating is much less than the costs of using its AC.
Both radiating heating and mini-splits would be nice.
Have you checked into using insulation under the slab?

[gbranham]

FWIW, I put a Mr Cool MiniSplit in my 30x30 shop, and it's awesome! I insulated my walls and ceiling, and sheetrocked the walls the year prior to installing the minisplit. It was still too hot in the summer, and way to cold in the winter....my car care products would freeze solid in really cold weather. I bought the minisplit on Amazon (a 36k BTU unit) for $2800. I bought the kit that comes with pre-charged lines, so I didn't need a HVAC tech to install it. My dad and I installed it in a weekend. Super simple installation, and it keeps the shop very comfortable year-round. Something to think about. You're 192 miles from me if you want to come check out my setup; happy to host you!

Oh, and I've had 4 post lifts with casters...I would never get under one unless it was bolted to the floor. I understand the lift doesn't rest on the casters when in use. In my experience, the posts sway a bit when not anchored, and it made me too nervous when wrenching on something that weighed a ton or two, suspended above my head. I moved my lift around from time to time, but when in use, I bolted it down with 16 Redheads in 16 holes I'd drilled in the floor. Rock solid, and it only took a few minutes to remove the Redheads if I wanted to move the lift.

For compressors, you might check out the 'Quiet Tech' line of compressors at Lowe's (Kobalt). I bought a 26 gallon Kobalt Quiet Tech 4 or 5 years ago, and it's been great. It's truly remarkable how quiet it is compared to some of the others I've had of the same size. It's done everything I've asked it to do while building my car. Mine isn't an oil-less unit. It's the traditional larger motor with the belt-driven flywheel.


Greg

https://www.amazon.com/MrCool-Ductle...s%2C120&sr=8-3

[cob427sc]

I've had both 2 and 4 post lifts and like most tools there are benefits and issues with both. With a Cobra and a 2 post lift you probably won't be able to swing the arms under the car without lifting the car slightly first. I used a couple of short ramps lifting the front of the car a couple of inches, then swinging the arms underneath. with the 4 post I now have, I had to make longer approach ramps or the car frame and exhaust hit the lift cross bar. This happens with any low car and I ended up making 2, 6' long wood ramps which I use on the lift and also on my car trailer which had the same problem. Be careful on the clear height underneath the lift when purchasing, not the lift height! My current 4 post lift is advertised as 6'-8" lift height and I wrongly assumed the entire lift would be the high. With my 6'-2" head, now full of multiple scars, bumps and contusions I won't make that error again.

[Papa]

I've had both 2 and 4 post lifts and like most tools there are benefits and issues with both. With a Cobra and a 2 post lift you probably won't be able to swing the arms under the car without lifting the car slightly first. I used a couple of short ramps lifting the front of the car a couple of inches, then swinging the arms underneath. with the 4 post I now have, I had to make longer approach ramps or the car frame and exhaust hit the lift cross bar. This happens with any low car and I ended up making 2, 6' long wood ramps which I use on the lift and also on my car trailer which had the same problem. Be careful on the clear height underneath the lift when purchasing, not the lift height! My current 4 post lift is advertised as 6'-8" lift height and I wrongly assumed the entire lift would be the high. With my 6'-2" head, now full of multiple scars, bumps and contusions I won't make that error again.

I had a two-post before and it was great once you get the car on it. It was a PITA to get the car in the right position, which is what I'm primarily looking to avoid with the 4-post. I had tape marks on the floor to help me position the car on a set of four low ramps that would then allow me to swing the arms under the car. Extending the ramps to reduce the approach angle for the four-post doesn't hurt my head at all. The stability of the lift when not bolted down is a concern that I will pay close attention to.

[Nigel Allen]

Installed my air compressor in a vented, but silenced wooden enclosure external to the shed. A lot more pleasant without the noise. I also wired it to a local illuminated switch, by my light switches to remind me to shut it off at end of day

[Skuzzy]

I'm currently researching air compressors, mini-splits, and four-post lift options. Please offer up any recommendations. I'm leaning heavily towards keeping the lift movable on castors vs. bolting it down.

I have a 60 gallon upright Rolair I am happy with. My specific requirement called for a compressor with a easy start-up so the surge would not trip my breaker. I only have 100A (city code restriction) electrical service to my garage. The compressor, mini-split A/C, and the Hobart welding machine can eat through that pretty quickly. I did build a cover for it so as to get the noise levels down and with an exhaust fan to keep the compressor cool when running. I also plumbed the three walls with multiple access points to connect hoses.

I had castors on my 4 post lift. I took them off as they were always in the way (they protrude out from the post a pretty good ways). As it turned out, once my garage was setup, there was no place to move the lift. You have more room, so that may not be an issue. I have not bolted it down. I put witness marks on the floor to mark where the posts settled in and the posts have not moved in 12 years of use. I use it a lot. I have not experienced any stability issues, but then I never work on the car with the lift higher than 4 feet. When I need to be under a car, I use a roll-around stool to sit on.

[Papa]

I have a 60 gallon upright Rolair I am happy with. My specific requirement called for a compressor with a easy start-up so the surge would not trip my breaker. I only have 100A (city code restriction) electrical service to my garage. The compressor, mini-split A/C, and the Hobart welding machine can eat through that pretty quickly. I did build a cover for it so as to get the noise levels down and with an exhaust fan to keep the compressor cool when running. I also plumbed the three walls with multiple access points to connect hoses.

I had castors on my 4 post lift. I took them off as they were always in the way (they protrude out from the post a pretty good ways). As it turned out, once my garage was setup, there was no place to move the lift. You have more room, so that may not be an issue. I have not bolted it down. I put witness marks on the floor to mark where the posts settled in and the posts have not moved in 12 years of use. I use it a lot. I have not experienced any stability issues, but then I never work on the car with the lift higher than 4 feet. When I need to be under a car, I use a roll-around stool to sit on.

Thanks for the info. I'm looking at 60 gallon compressors, but I'm torn on what I really need. I had a stationary 80 gallon in my old shop, and it was great but way overkill for what I needed. I'm actually leaning more toward a portable compressor this time around (at least to start), which may limit me to 40 gallons, but could run on 110V. I will be plumbing the shop with this RAPIDAIR system that I really like: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1VCSLB0K&psc=1

[Skuzzy]

I used the Rapidair system to plumb my garage. I used 3/4" as well. The only reason I went with the 60 gallon was the requirement I had to be able to paint with it. It really stinks when you run out of air in the middle of a shoot. I have a water separator immediately after the compressor with a 10 micron high volumn particle filter on the paint gun outlet.

By the way, if you are going to install your 4 post lift, I would be happy to offer some tips (I know you probably do not need them). I installed my 4 post lift by my self. The Wife did help with the unloading off the truck. That way I appeased her showing her how much money I could save.

[JimLev]

I bought a 60 gal vertical 2 stage 175 PSI compressor (11CFM @ 90PSI) from Lowes, I think it’s actually made by Campbell Hausfeld.
Like Skuzzy I didn’t want to run out of air while painting or sandblasting.
My previous compressor was a single stage oil less 30 gal that couldn’t supply enough CFM.

Another guy I know on a different forum bought this compressor, he uses it for painting and sandblasting.
It has two 2HP motors each powering 2 cylinders. It’s pretty quiet too. They also have smaller units too.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...e?ie=UTF8&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/stores/Califo..._brandLogo_sto

[Skuzzy]

I got the Rolair model V5160PT03X (https://www.rolair.com/air-compresso...ght-industrial). It has handled everything I can throw at it.