M22 Cobra Build (MICHIGAN) - Coyote Pedal Dilemma 2.0??

[Mike.Bray]

I started off going with a manual rack as that's what I was used to and I didn't want the added parts and complexity of power steering. The forum convinced me to go with power steering. In all honestly, every time I drive my car I think how nice it drives with PS and how truly thankful I am for listening to the forum. It is truly a joy to drive.

I kind of wish I had gone with a hydraboost also but that's another story.

Just something to think about.

[TXeverydayDad]

Good to follow along in your build. I’m pretty much at the same stage with mine.

[M22_COBRA]

Copy that on PS. I Hear you loud and clear but it's just not what I want. All our hot rods growing up were manual, the only exception was the 79 TA. That had a close ratio box and I always pissed the pump off turning the wheel to far. Dad too...lol.

I placed the order for the ProM hanger and 255 pump today. Pissed the wife off there. So not much has changed. Ha!
Looking forward, the fuel is off in the distance needed to pull the trigger. Edward seemed to speak highly of the unit and I liked the AN setup on it with the return features. Not sure if I need the 255 but who knows if I'll need it. I'll likely end up with a Gen 4 Coyote and who knows what those will need for fuel. I'm not close to ordering yet which is concerning.

Simple question as the manual is moving me to sheet metal. Should I do brake hard-line before or after interior sheet metal? I'll likely use Cleco's so I don't need to run them home permanent. Just wanted to see what others had done. I think I'll be printing some RP place holder parts and brackets to get the brake lines and junction blocks right as I'd like to reuse the factory rear caliper lines and junction blocks. Plus I have my estopp in hand to mount.
Stay tuned, lots to consider.

[M22_COBRA]

Part of me says keep it simple stupid, the other side the sounds a lot like Gary Bussey and says lets over build it. Ha! Either way the Estopp is a really nice unit!


cad1.jpg

[egchewy79]

Hung up on a new problem, the clutch quadrant stop switch. I can't find it? It's this one here in the manual. Again running hydraulic clutch so I know I won't use the plates for the cable
Attachment 202619
I've turned the garage and every box upside down. I looked through the pack list and I can't find it anywhere on the list? I did get two of the brake switches that show mounting underneath the Wilwood pedal box. Is this top switch obsolete now? Does it come with the engine or the PCM which I do not have yet? I do have the two brackets that hold it.
Attachment 202620Attachment 202621
Attachment 202622



Upon Further review: it looks like this comes in the Coyote Ford performance pack??

FYI, unless they've changed it, the clutch switch is wired incorrectly in the manual and you'll need to reverse the polarity of the wires for it to work. Many others (including myself) have fallen victim to this oversight.

[M22_COBRA]

Thanks for the heads up. I saw that in another post, it was confusing at first. I'll definitely have to remember when I get to wiring. I guess it makes sense since you want the switch depressed on the clutch to activate and you want it off when the brake is applied. Just something Ill have to remember. I fear the wiring portion.

[Mike.Bray]

I used the neutral switch in the TKX instead of the clutch switch.

[M22_COBRA]

I'll search thru your build thread Mike, Thanks!

[Mike.Bray]

I'll search thru your build thread Mike, Thanks!

I might not have documented that. I have the Digital Dawg pushbutton ignition system and it requires a safety input to start. I originally wired it as recommended with the safety going through both the clutch and brake switches. To start the car both the clutch and brake had to be depressed. I didn't like that so I moved the clutch switch wiring to the neutral switch in the transmission. Now to start the car the transmission must be in neutral and the brake pedal must be depressed.

To turn on the ACC 1 or ACC 2 circuit I activate the system with the FOB and press the start button once or twice without the brake depressed.

Hope this makes sense.

[M22_COBRA]

I got the UCA rear turnbuckles shortened 0.300" each side. I hit the 7.375" measurement on the dot but the male portions are about a 1/32 of a turn from hitting each other and preventing me from gaining more caster. Should I remove 1/8" off one (or both) of the male threaded ends? I'm not really sure where the caster is now or how that's going to effect my other numbers at alignment being maxed out on the rear turn buckle. I don't really want to cut if I don't have to. Been reading multiple threads and some say you should, others don't really get prescriptive on the male portion.
What's everyone else's experience been?
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For now I'm working on getting sheet metal in. Mark, punch, drill, cleco, repeat. Plan is to get all the panels that mate in and temp riveted, polish the engine bay panels that will require it, then eventually silicone and rivet permanently.
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[gbranham]

When you shorten those UCAs, you need to shave both the turnbuckles and the threaded rods. Don't know why folks have trepidation around this; it's a 5 minute task.

[cc2Arider]

I agree, it's an easy task...but kinda scary the 1st time because you realize you're modifying known good chassis parts

Craig C

[M22_COBRA]

When you shorten those UCAs, you need to shave both the turnbuckles and the threaded rods. Don't know why folks have trepidation around this; it's a 5 minute task.

"Fast is fine, but accuracy is permanent"

Its an 1/8" not much. I guess I was more concerned with how much extra folks took off the male side / how much was actually needed. Easier to do now vs all together and I need more adjustment when I'm fully assembled.

[M22_COBRA]

"HE GONE"... Took off an 1/8" with the grinding wheel and can get the rear measurement below 6.5". Should be enough.
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[M22_COBRA]

I needed a break from the pop rivet polka so I decided to mess with an idea I had. I want to reuse the e-brake bracket that I've cut off since I'm using the electric e-stop. The idea is to use it to reinforce the firewall to the dash bar. Problem is the distance from the dash bar to the firewall is longer than the legs of the e-brake bracket. So I fired up my cad and my 3D printer and started printing some slip on prototypes. These are the first ones, they slip on over the 90° ends of the e-brake bracket. I can't figure if I want to silicone and rivet or permanently Bond the bracket to the firewall for a cleaner look. I'm pretty sure I'll use a 1024 riv nut on the dash bar and run a through bolt on the adapter. Prototype pieces turned out nice and when I put it against the firewall it made it instantly more rigid. It's still super thin and you're going to get a little flex, but I think this is a big improvement. I think going forward I'm going to look at adding some extra clipping points for wire routing. Question I have for y'all is is there anything in this area that this may interfere with later down the road? I think it's high enough that it won't interfere with the coyote wiring harness and the fuel pressure regulator. The finished parts will likely be made out of ASA or CF variant which has a pretty high melting temp.
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[M22_COBRA]

I got questions...
As I'm working thru the panels I keep going back to the clutch in my mind to figure out what I want to do there. Original plan was a Forte hydraulic setup but I have not bought anything at this point, I have the Wilwood PB, and remember going coyote. I'm considering a clutch cable but don't have any of the FFR parts for that setup, besides I have heard the FFR cable is not good. Trying to control a cost that I'm not really feeling is a necessity. $400+ vs $160 is enough to make me consider it.

1. If I was to go to a cable setup what Ford cable should I get? Ford Performance Parts M-7553-C302 is what I keep pulling down from other posts but the posts are 2014-ish or older. Is Forte the best place? I have a local performance hotrod parts store in town ( I'm way out so im surprised we have a performance store tbh lol)
2. If I was to go cable what is my best bet for a quadrant setup? FFR? Is there something better?

Thoughts and opinions welcome.

[Jeff Kleiner]

M7553-E302 cable. When you ordered if you specified the #16920 "manual clutch release" the Wilwood pedal box should have come with the components to configure it for cable operation.



I've used the Wilwood box and Ford cable on a Coyote with TKX and it works well.

Jeff

wilwood clutch.jpg

[M22_COBRA]

Yeah that's the parts I'm needing but they are not in my kit (because I didnt order them). I ordered the hydraulic option which was really just an extra 3/4" MC and resi, no throw-out or slave. Worst case I have an extra brake MC.
I am not finding the 15613 parts in the catalog off the FFR website either. Next up would be a call / email inquiry.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Yeah that's the parts I'm needing but they are not in my kit (because I didnt order them)...

Well, that kind of explains it...you won't have parts that you didn't buy!

Jeff

[John Ibele]

FWIW, I do have the cable setup assembly FFR15613 on my car along with the Ford clutch cable, and I have no regrets about going this route. Clutch action is definitely the heaviest I've encountered but it's also something I don't even think about any more. It's very smooth when properly set up.

Key is having the firewall adjuster precisely located on the front of the footbox so the cable aligns EXACTLY with the recessed channel or groove that accepts the cable in the quadrant. I had that responsibility fall on me due to a redesign to the quadrant assembly which FFR had to make when their MK4 first came out. That meant my frame no longer matched the new quadrant location, and necessitated drilling out a new location for the adjuster in the frame. But, worked out okay. Presumably that all lines up automatically now. But definitely check for good alignment and zero contact with any potential wear points.

I also rounded the edges at the top of the groove just in case the cable contacted that edge at all as it engaged with the quadrant. No signs of wear at all so far, but only a few k miles in.

[Mike.Bray]

FWIW I built a 32 Ford one time with a cable actuated clutch. It was "okay" IMO and a little heavy. The next car I built had a much bigger engine and heavier clutch so I went to a hydraulic throwout bearing. Ever since then I've used Tilton HTBs on all manual cars I've built including my MKIV with a Ram HDT clutch. The actuation is soft and smooth as silk. Seriously, it's hard to describe how nice using the clutch is in my car, it's a pure joy to drive.

Mike

[M22_COBRA]

FWIW I built a 32 Ford one time with a cable actuated clutch. It was "okay" IMO and a little heavy. The next car I built had a much bigger engine and heavier clutch so I went to a hydraulic throwout bearing. Ever since then I've used Tilton HTBs on all manual cars I've built including my MKIV with a Ram HDT clutch. The actuation is soft and smooth as silk. Seriously, it's hard to describe how nice using the clutch is in my car, it's a pure joy to drive.

Mike

You got the 13/16" MC on that setup?

[M22_COBRA]

I also rounded the edges at the top of the groove just in case the cable contacted that edge at all as it engaged with the quadrant. No signs of wear at all so far, but only a few k miles in.

For sure, Frank gave the same good advice in a recent video. Good practices never go out of style. Thank you!
So you were the guinea pig on the Mk4 swap from the single shear quadrant? Glad it all worked out in the end.

I think there is a quadrant for sale somewhere on the forum I'll dig up. I think this would be a good place to save some $$ (so I can spend it elsewhere)
I'll get good use out of everything they sent in the kit anyway extra resi, clamps, ect, and now a spare master.

[Mike.Bray]

You got the 13/16" MC on that setup?

Tilton 6100 series HTB with a Tilton 13/16" master cylinder.

[John Ibele]

So you were the guinea pig on the Mk4 swap from the single shear quadrant? Glad it all worked out in the end.

Yep, super fun . Not quite as fun as the 40 hrs spent in the School of Hard Knocks learning how to install rear gears and get the pattern dialed in, but everyone’s got their thing somewhere with these builds! All part of the adventure.

[M22_COBRA]

Got the Ford Cable in today. I don't have any adjustable lock at the firewall like most folks. I also remember Frank saying that you either need the adjustment bolt down off the bottom or at the firewall but not both. So I'm looking at the firewall and it's got a exact matching hole that matches to the Ford part. Is it that simple and I just run a fastener / rivet to it? Or do I need to get another part?
Bopping between the coyote instructions, the regular manual, it's a little unclear. And without buying the manual clutch off the bat I'm likely missing a part.?? Thx

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[M22_COBRA]

Feels like 1 fastener / pop rivet is a bit sketch even if the internals are in tension and mounted to the standoff?? Maybe I'll nut and bolt that one and it wont be an issue. Jury is still out for me

[M22_COBRA]

So I pulled the trigger on going with a cable clutch versus hydraulic. Got a great used part from jimstone, thanks, Jim! I'll have to get the SS clutch switch sheet metal parts or fab my own.
Then I busted out my $40 Amazon chamfering tool. If you don't have one of these and you're doing one of these builds, it's really handy. The thicker laser cut parts are a little rough and always require a little finesse to make a nicer build. This tool is nice because it can do chamfers and radius edges. I use the radius edge tool to blend the sharp corner that faces the cable. Less chance of snapping the cable and wearing it over an edge long term. Came out great and I'm really happy.
Continuing on with interior sheet metal, still have a lot left and I have a big weekend of doing just that ahead. Really stoked!
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[Mike.Bray]

FWIW I ended up not using my clutch switch. For my start interlock circuit I used the brake switch and neutral switch in the TKX.

[M22_COBRA]

FWIW I ended up not using my clutch switch. For my start interlock circuit I used the brake switch and neutral switch in the TKX.

Interesting, I'll have to look thru your thread on that. Thanks.

[Mike.Bray]

Interesting, I'll have to look thru your thread on that. Thanks.

I'm not sure I documented anything about that in my build thread. Originally I used the clutch & brake switches as my start interlock into the Digital Guard Dawg pushbutton start module. I ended up not liking it for two reasons:

For this system to work you have to have the interlock engaged for both start and stop.

I have more faith in the neutral switch in the TXK than I do in the clutch switch or even the clutch itself.

So far I've been pretty happy with it this way.

Now about that sequential shifter I saw lol

[M22_COBRA]

I've got a sequential shifter, its called my right hand! lol. 95% of the time it never misses a shift 100% of the time. lol
The push button seemed like it could get broken over time (at least on the clutch travel I saw). Yeah, I'll reach out when I get to that point, might be a nice safe and fool proof option.

[Mike.Bray]

I seriously doubt I'll do this but it is cool.

https://s1sequential.com/?currency=U...sNzd80JarW_1rw

[Mike.Bray]

The push button seemed like it could get broken over time (at least on the clutch travel I saw). Yeah, I'll reach out when I get to that point, might be a nice safe and fool proof option.

If I was doing it again I would do a keyed switch to turn everything on and a button for the starter. I would interlock the starter button with the brake and transmission neutral switch. Simple but still safe.

[JMD]

FWIW I ended up not using my clutch switch. For my start interlock circuit I used the brake switch and neutral switch in the TKX.

I was planning to use the neutral switch on mine, but after operating the car with only the clutch switch I don't see why I would need it. I think using either one or the other is perfectly safe...pick which you prefer. Both is always a good idea, but for practical use I don't think it's really necessary.

[JMD]

I needed a break from the pop rivet polka so I decided to mess with an idea I had. I want to reuse the e-brake bracket that I've cut off since I'm using the electric e-stop. The idea is to use it to reinforce the firewall to the dash bar. Problem is the distance from the dash bar to the firewall is longer than the legs of the e-brake bracket. So I fired up my cad and my 3D printer and started printing some slip on prototypes. These are the first ones, they slip on over the 90° ends of the e-brake bracket. I can't figure if I want to silicone and rivet or permanently Bond the bracket to the firewall for a cleaner look. I'm pretty sure I'll use a 1024 riv nut on the dash bar and run a through bolt on the adapter. Prototype pieces turned out nice and when I put it against the firewall it made it instantly more rigid. It's still super thin and you're going to get a little flex, but I think this is a big improvement. I think going forward I'm going to look at adding some extra clipping points for wire routing. Question I have for y'all is is there anything in this area that this may interfere with later down the road? I think it's high enough that it won't interfere with the coyote wiring harness and the fuel pressure regulator. The finished parts will likely be made out of ASA or CF variant which has a pretty high melting temp.
PXL_20240830_220041788.jpgPXL_20240830_220035176.jpgPXL_20240830_220148167.jpgPXL_20240830_220226912.jpgPXL_20240830_220201960.jpg

Reinforcing the stock firewall is a good idea, just be careful of how much space you're taking up if you're planning to use a heater. (I didn't look back to see if you are or are not.) I used the FFMetal firewall forward with my build and needed every bit of space between the firewall and dash. (I did fit both the heater and glovebox, though.) Wouldn't want to try to fit everything behind the stock firewall if you are planning to run a heater. I highly recommend the firewall forward to everyone...it's not too expensive and there is no down side.

[M22_COBRA]

Thanks JMD. Yeah NO heaters, AC, Defrost, maybe not even a glove box. With the new changes I put in those mounts they are low profile and have wire clipping points so I don't have to have wires on the dash or the firewall. I will say the dash will be modular plated. This way I can remove the gauge clusters on a pig tail and pull the units out.

[M22_COBRA]

Big weekend of Fab. Got the e-brake closeout and the PS footbox done and I'm starting to move on to the DS foot box. I think it turned out nice.
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For those of you that saw my other post / question you know I found a 2020 Bullitt mustang Gen 3 15K mile dropout and drug that thing home! I looked like a Top Fuel Tacoma going down the freeway.
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I'm in process of taking it apart in the truck bed as I couldn't put it in the bed tailpipe first. Just wasn't gonna be safe having that much load at the back. So I'm removing the headers, tranny, clutch...... and then I'll cut the pallet and get the cherry picker close enough to pick up the engine. This thing is super clean. Big shoutout to Jordan at Domestic Performance Recyclers, great guy, clean shop.
Got lots of parts for sale from the flywheel back but that's the deal. Hopefully I can make some coin back on those parts as they are also in top shape.
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The engine itself is so awesome, I'm beyond excited. Takes a lot of pressure off since I didn't know if I was gonna go gen4 gen3, what am I gonna do for exhaust, the aftermarket hasn't caught up.... Its more than I wanted to take on so I'm glad I can confidently say its GEN 3 and lets go to work.

[M22_COBRA]

I'm working on flooding the valve train at the moment but before I get there I'm draining any ruminant oil out and putting a new filter on. I have a setup to pump oil through the oil sending unit sensor. But I've caught a snag.
What thread is the oil sending unit sensor? It looks like M12 x1.5 or ORB but most of the things around are saying it's 1/4 npt which doesn't fit. This is a gen 3. I also realized that my coyote kit is missing the adapter from the engine to the T block. Any help is appreciated.
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Update: I've ordered a -6an to 12x1.5 adapter. Hopefully this corrects it, I don't have pitch gauges so its hard to tell. I don't remember seeing anywhere that gen3 has a different thread in this location. Stay tuned

[M22_COBRA]

Short update on priming the coyote. Yes, the 12x1.5 AN port adapter on my GEN 3 Coyote works off the oil sending sensor to hook up my priming setup. The instructions call out NPT adapters but they don't exactly say what they are adapting to with regard to thread. Again, I'm missing the 12x1.5 adapter in my kit so it was an easy oversight.
With the Cams and upper heads oiled ( ran a few cycles / turned the engine over 3-4 times ) I can rest easy it wont corrode while I wait to install and fire up. I'll just treat it like my generator and give it a service run every month for piece of mind.
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Back to panels I am fitting my DS box. This side is a little off from the factory. The tops and sides are right where then need to be but the lower corner off the DS tunnel are not great. I have a significant gap like some have had in the past and the upper inside panel needs a small trim to remove the overhang. This leaves me to the free floating gap at the bottom. So I made up a CAD part from the 4" tube and got the slope correct and made a cheap pla part to try. Not too bad. I may try and use this as a nesting die and bend up some 0.040" or I can reprint this in nylon-12 CF and just bond it in there with silicone. The goal is to give the vertical free float panel a stop and help plug the gap for the silicone. The panel doesn't move much once temp riveted to the rest of the panels but it flexes at the bottom and the gap is huge. This should close that area out. Id pull the lower in but the top refuses to move and has no give, and the floor is proper with the tunnel and the other bits. I know this has been seen before on other builds. I just don't want to get crazy thick as I know the throttle pedal gets real close post carpet and shielding. Should be cutting the shielding pattern, polishing the panel, and working on the pedal install next.
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