Upgrading Cooling System Advice

[Doc76]

Hey guys
I have a stocker 302 Cobra motor in my Mk4. In time to come I’ll be stroking it to 347, etc.
At this time there’s a stock mustang rad in it so I’ll looking to improve that.

Anyone use this setup? (I have a line on this in a guys garage new in box BUT it’s discontinued so getting replacement parts might be the pits)
https://thmotorsports.com/41875-flex...qM6l0a4HQ6whH_

Or would it be wiser to stick with an FFR alum rad 14031 (given the ports are angled better) and go with a Flex a Lite Lowboy 15390 or something like that?

Something else I’m looking for advice on is the overflow tank. FFR has that pretty alum overflow tank (15” tall) with their kits but is there something to be said for my plastic opaque one that allows me to see my coolant level?

Cheers

[rich grsc]

I'm going to bet $$$$ that won't fit. The fill port on the upper left will not clear the frame.

[Rebostar]

F500 guy used a Canton that looks great . https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-80-201c. I used a mid sixties FE expansion tank I found on C-list. I alos went with the FFR rad. Less issues!

DSC03243.JPG

[Doc76]

I'm going to bet $$$$ that won't fit. The fill port on the upper left will not cleat the frame.

Agreed
I went back into the shop and looked at mine. That one’s gonna be way too deep.
FFR rad?

[Bill Elliott]

I would say the FFR radiator is just fine for a 347. I have a 427 (565hp) and have driven it in near 100 degree weather with no issues. I have the FFR radiator with a Breeze shroud and a Flex a Lite 3k cfm fan (FLX-105390). Also a larger expansion tank .

[Doc76]

I would say the FFR radiator is just fine for a 347. I have a 427 (565hp) and have driven it in near 100 degree weather with no issues. I have the FFR radiator with a Breeze shroud and a Flex a Lite 3k cfm fan (FLX-105390). Also a larger expansion tank .

Perfect thanks
What are you running for an expansion tank?

[CraigS]

I ran a plastic one probably a lot like you have for maybe 10 years. I only replaced because the plastic was ageing, getting hard to see through, and I was afraid it might crack. I went w/ this.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/c...+5c9cc22f607ee

[Fman]

+1 on the FFR radiator, 427 500+HP never breaks 185-190. I also went with breeze shroud and Flex a lite 3000 CFM fan.

[Doc76]

Awesome thanks guys
Makes me feel a lot better that I was on the right track already

I do want to try to reuse my plastic one to be able to see the level.

[Doc76]

+1 on the FFR radiator, 427 500+HP never breaks 185-190. I also went with breeze shroud and Flex a lite 3000 CFM fan.

Any advice on mounting system?

I see Breeze offers a hinged upper mount kit (don’t know why you’d want the top hinged and to drill a whole bunch of holes across the top tube), and they also appear to offer a lower mount kit.

Is that the way you gents would recommend?

[egchewy79]

I used both breeze upper and lower mounts. The hinge goes into the upper flange, not the rad itself. It disperses the weight more evenly so there is less failure of the aluminum of the flange and also allows you to adjust the angle of the radiator if you’re using the Mike Everson nose aluminum.

[CraigS]

You may already know this but I will ad in a few thoughts anyway. As you mess around w/ hoses be sure your T-filler is in the top hose and is the highest part of the system including heater and it's hoses. The vent hose from the T-filler goes to the bottom of your tank and make sure it doesn't go above it's T-filler outlet anywhere on it's run to the tank. Lower the tank some if you have to but keep it withing a few inches of T-filler height. When filling the system remove a heater hose/temp sensor/ from the intake to let air escape. I used the heater hose on mine but the temp sensor on driver's side would also work.
Intake plugs sensors.jpg
Once coolant comes out of either one, cap it off put the final ounce or 2 in the T-filler and install your pressure cap. Here is where it can get a bit tedious. From now on never remove the pressure cap, always add coolant to your tank. Start w/ the tank 1/2 full and run the car til it warms. Confirm the thermostat has opened by feeling the top hose near the radiator. Now shut it off and watch the tank level over the next several hours. As the engine sucks coolant out of the tank the level drops so be sure it doesn't empty. Keep topping it to about 1/2 full. I usually do the first cycle keeping the car in the garage. But then it is just too hard to keep watching it idle so I start making short hops around the neighborhood. I don't want to get too far away in case there is a problem. It can take 3-4-5 cycles until it settles. Eventually you should end up w/ a tank that is about 1/3 full cold and 2/3 full warm. BTW you have a manual fan switch don't you? It drove me crazy watching the temp go to 195F, auto fan comes on and it cools to 180F. The cycle repeats. I use the manual switch any time it is warm out and I am moving slowly. It is really nice to see the temp gauge sit rock solid on 180F (or whatever your T-stat spec is).

[Doc76]

You may already know this but I will ad in a few thoughts anyway. As you mess around w/ hoses be sure your T-filler is in the top hose and is the highest part of the system including heater and it's hoses. The vent hose from the T-filler goes to the bottom of your tank and make sure it doesn't go above it's T-filler outlet anywhere on it's run to the tank. Lower the tank some if you have to but keep it withing a few inches of T-filler height. When filling the system remove a heater hose/temp sensor/ from the intake to let air escape. I used the heater hose on mine but the temp sensor on driver's side would also work.
Intake plugs sensors.jpg
Once coolant comes out of either one, cap it off put the final ounce or 2 in the T-filler and install your pressure cap. Here is where it can get a bit tedious. From now on never remove the pressure cap, always add coolant to your tank. Start w/ the tank 1/2 full and run the car til it warms. Confirm the thermostat has opened by feeling the top hose near the radiator. Now shut it off and watch the tank level over the next several hours. As the engine sucks coolant out of the tank the level drops so be sure it doesn't empty. Keep topping it to about 1/2 full. I usually do the first cycle keeping the car in the garage. But then it is just too hard to keep watching it idle so I start making short hops around the neighborhood. I don't want to get too far away in case there is a problem. It can take 3-4-5 cycles until it settles. Eventually you should end up w/ a tank that is about 1/3 full cold and 2/3 full warm. BTW you have a manual fan switch don't you? It drove me crazy watching the temp go to 195F, auto fan comes on and it cools to 180F. The cycle repeats. I use the manual switch any time it is warm out and I am moving slowly. It is really nice to see the temp gauge sit rock solid on 180F (or whatever your T-stat spec is).

Thanks very much for taking the time to explain this Craig
I didn’t know any of this. When I get to the upgrade I’ll surely be touching back on this thread
Yes I have a manual switch and have been practicing similar behaviour. (Turning it on in slow/stopped traffic) to maintain a consistent temp. Great minds think alike

[Fman]

Any advice on mounting system?

I see Breeze offers a hinged upper mount kit (don’t know why you’d want the top hinged and to drill a whole bunch of holes across the top tube), and they also appear to offer a lower mount kit.

Is that the way you gents would recommend?

100% breeze upper and lower mount system, it fully supports the radiator and will prevent cracking. Have seen a couple on here crack that did not use this setup. I also went with the Canton 2qt overflow which has been great for my 427.

[Doc76]

100% breeze upper and lower mount system, it fully supports the radiator and will prevent cracking. Have seen a couple on here crack that did not use this setup. I also went with the Canton 2qt overflow which has been great for my 427.

How does that lower Breeze mount bracket work?
Looks like a rod that the lower channel of the rad just nests over. Is that the case?
Someone able to share. Picture from under their mk4 to give me a visual?

[CraigS]

Yes that is pretty much it. I think it has rubber tube around it to act as a cushion.

[Doc76]

For those of you running the Canton 2 qt for the FFR 15” tall overflow, is there a sight glass/tube on those or are they solid?

[Fman]

For those of you running the Canton 2 qt for the FFR 15” tall overflow, is there a sight glass/tube on those or are they solid?

Yes it does have a sight glass....

[Doc76]

Yes it does have a sight glass....

Awesome thanks Fman!
Why did you go with this one as opposed to the FFR 15” long one?

My guess is because the Canton is 2qt and the FFR is .91qt. Sound about right or?

[CraigS]

From many posts here my theory is that in an absolutely ideal world the FFR one is OK. But I knew my plastic tank had been 1.5qts and worked well for a decade or so. I would have bought another 1.5 but Canton didn't have one w/ the sight tube.

[Doc76]

Anybody running the Breeze shroud 70813 for the Flex-a-Lite Lowboy fan on the FFR rad they’d be willing to share pictures of?
Curious of final fitment, how the shroud ends up mounting and what kinda space we are left with.

[Fman]

Awesome thanks Fman!
Why did you go with this one as opposed to the FFR 15” long one?

My guess is because the Canton is 2qt and the FFR is .91qt. Sound about right or?

I wanted the extra capacity with a 500+ HP 427. IMHO the FFR supplied tank is not sufficient for larger displacement engines.

[Fman]

Anybody running the Breeze shroud 70813 for the Flex-a-Lite Lowboy fan on the FFR rad they’d be willing to share pictures of?
Curious of final fitment, how the shroud ends up mounting and what kinda space we are left with.

I am using the Flex a lite low boy 3000 CFM with breeze shroud...

[Doc76]

I am using the Flex a lite low boy 3000 CFM with breeze shroud...

What’s the paint finish you’re using on the shroud?
Like the look.
Also what are you running for plumbing?
Did you go with the SS flexible pipe or something like Breezes fitted hose/SS rigid pipe or?

[Doc76]

Yes it does have a sight glass....

Is that the Canton 80-201?
There’s a surprising amount of different models from Canton.

[Doc76]

I would say the FFR radiator is just fine for a 347. I have a 427 (565hp) and have driven it in near 100 degree weather with no issues. I have the FFR radiator with a Breeze shroud and a Flex a Lite 3k cfm fan (FLX-105390). Also a larger expansion tank .

What are you running for an expansion tank?

[Doc76]

You may already know this but I will ad in a few thoughts anyway. As you mess around w/ hoses be sure your T-filler is in the top hose and is the highest part of the system including heater and it's hoses. The vent hose from the T-filler goes to the bottom of your tank and make sure it doesn't go above it's T-filler outlet anywhere on it's run to the tank. Lower the tank some if you have to but keep it withing a few inches of T-filler height. When filling the system remove a heater hose/temp sensor/ from the intake to let air escape. I used the heater hose on mine but the temp sensor on driver's side would also work.
Intake plugs sensors.jpg
Once coolant comes out of either one, cap it off put the final ounce or 2 in the T-filler and install your pressure cap. Here is where it can get a bit tedious. From now on never remove the pressure cap, always add coolant to your tank. Start w/ the tank 1/2 full and run the car til it warms. Confirm the thermostat has opened by feeling the top hose near the radiator. Now shut it off and watch the tank level over the next several hours. As the engine sucks coolant out of the tank the level drops so be sure it doesn't empty. Keep topping it to about 1/2 full. I usually do the first cycle keeping the car in the garage. But then it is just too hard to keep watching it idle so I start making short hops around the neighborhood. I don't want to get too far away in case there is a problem. It can take 3-4-5 cycles until it settles. Eventually you should end up w/ a tank that is about 1/3 full cold and 2/3 full warm. BTW you have a manual fan switch don't you? It drove me crazy watching the temp go to 195F, auto fan comes on and it cools to 180F. The cycle repeats. I use the manual switch any time it is warm out and I am moving slowly. It is really nice to see the temp gauge sit rock solid on 180F (or whatever your T-stat spec is).

What are you running for an expansion tank?
I’ll be replacing my expansion tank as well with an FFR rad, Breeze shroud and mounts and a Flexlite Loboy 105390 fan

[Doc76]

Can anyone tell me what the difference, other than name, of the Recovery Tank vs an Expansion Tank?
I looked around and even used Chat and not really clear still on how they differ.

I see pretty much everyone here running an expansion tank but no one running a recovery tank. I don’t quite understand the difference.
I have all the components needed for an improved system, just need to decide on a tank system.
Canton sells a Recovery/Expansion dual tank setup and I was wondering why no one is using it.

[CraigS]

Expansion tank has the pressure cap on it's top. It can be used where the tank can be located to be the highest part of the system. Recovery tank has a vented cap on top and the pressure cap is on the T-filler. You may have seen some cobras w/ the classic expansion tank located just above the T-stat housing on the front of the intake manifold. Scroll down a bit for a pic of an expansion tank.
https://erareplicas.com/parts/cooling.htm

[Fman]

What’s the paint finish you’re using on the shroud?
Like the look.
Also what are you running for plumbing?
Did you go with the SS flexible pipe or something like Breezes fitted hose/SS rigid pipe or?

Powder coat is a Hammered prismatic color, I cant recall the exact name. My upper and lower radiator hose set up is from Boig cool pipes, not sure if he is in business anymore. As you mentioned I think Breeze sells the upper and lower rigid pipes which I would recommend.

[Fman]

Is that the Canton 80-201?
There’s a surprising amount of different models from Canton.

It is a 2QT canton, not sure on the model. It does have the clear site gauge on it.

[Doc76]

Expansion tank has the pressure cap on it's top. It can be used where the tank can be located to be the highest part of the system. Recovery tank has a vented cap on top and the pressure cap is on the T-filler. You may have seen some cobras w/ the classic expansion tank located just above the T-stat housing on the front of the intake manifold. Scroll down a bit for a pic of an expansion tank.
https://erareplicas.com/parts/cooling.htm

Thanks for taking the time to explain that.
So it sounds as though you only need one or the other which is why I guess so many guys go with the 2qt Canton expansion tank?
So I will need to install the cap on the tank higher than the T -filler then?
I can’t say I’ve seen any Cobras running the dual Canton recovery/expansion tank.
What would be the application for the dual tank?

[MPTech]

Not sure how the Canton recovery/expansion tank (dual tanks works)

This is the type of tankyou want:
ctr-80-201_w.jpg

Top fitting dumps to ground (shouldn't ever need it under normal conditions)
The bottom fitting attaches to hose connecting to T-Filler.

[Bill Elliott]

What are you running for an expansion tank?

I am running the Summit tank,, looks just like the Canton. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-300117

[Doc76]

Not sure how the Canton recovery/expansion tank (dual tanks works)

This is the type of tankyou want:
ctr-80-201_w.jpg

Top fitting dumps to ground (shouldn't ever need it under normal conditions)
The bottom fitting attaches to hose connecting to T-Filler.

Thank for this. I like some of the chamfered cornered tanks and even the round ones.
The one you showed is listed as a recovery tank on Canton.com and not an expansion tank.
This is where my confusion lies with these Recovery vs Expansion tanks. Ones pressurized and ones not from what I can tell. Guys seem to use the terminology interchangeably.
IMG_0401.png
So am I looking for one with the drain tube (Recovery tank) or am I looking for one with no drain tube (Expansion tank).

Totally lost on this one.

[CraigS]

You are looking for a tank w/o a pressure cap. Canton has them delineated on their website.
Go here;
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/
Click 'Shop' near the top;
On the left click 'Engine coolant tanks and accessories'
In the drop down that appears click 'Universal Coolant Recovery Tanks'
You want # 80201C or # 80201. Notice these come w/ a cap that fits the Canton threads. It is NOT a pressure cap. If you look at 'Expansion tanks' note they do not come w/ a cap because you are to supply your own standard pressure cap.

[Doc76]

You are looking for a tank w/o a pressure cap. Canton has them delineated on their website.
Go here;
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/
Click 'Shop' near the top;
On the left click 'Engine coolant tanks and accessories'
In the drop down that appears click 'Universal Coolant Recovery Tanks'
You want # 80201C or # 80201. Notice these come w/ a cap that fits the Canton threads. It is NOT a pressure cap. If you look at 'Expansion tanks' note they do not come w/ a cap because you are to supply your own standard pressure cap.

Thanks for this info. Very much appreciated.
Do you happen to know what the application for the dual tank would be?
IMG_0403.png

[OB6]

The Canton products are really nice. I'm using them for the expansion and recovery tanks.

[Doc76]

The Canton products are really nice. I'm using them for the expansion and recovery tanks.

Beautiful scenery man!!
What model of Cantons are those?
I see you’re running two.
Which are which and why?

I see very few guys running two.

[OB6]

Beautiful scenery man!!
What model of Cantons are those?
I see you’re running two.
Which are which and why?

I see very few guys running two.

I'm running two because it's what works best with the LS3. It's plumbed according to this diagram:

LS cooling system - no heater.jpg

These are the tanks I'm using:

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-80-200

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ctr-80-201c