Door/window idea

[Power Surge]

Just been doing some thinking lately about the poor window seal situation, especially on the Gen1 cars. And also thinking about how not fun it is to try to get in and out of the car (and I don't even have the body on).

So I'm interested in how people did the full window frames on the doors.

Also thinking about a door setup like a GT40 with part of the door extending into the roof. That would require relocating the side hoop roll bars to the inside, centered between the seats, at the top of the roll cage. That's easy, but thinking being able to make a GT40 style upper door would be a good challenge, having to add in bodywork on the roof for the door channel and how to make it seal.

Any thoughts on either of these ideas?

[VRaptor SpeedWorks, LLC]

The full frames on the doors would be a much easier project....but IMO, no matter how you do it, the frame is going to be pretty fragile. If the whole door shell (inner and outer) was layed up in one piece with a window frame, it would be ok....but trying to "add on" the window frame to the already existing door..... however you bond the frame to the door is going to be a weak point. I know people have done it on these cars.

The GT40 idea would be cool, but IMO would be a pretty monumental task to get all of the geometry right for the doors to open and close and seal. For that, I would say it would be near impossible to make something to just "add on" to the existing door. You'd almost have to build a prototype, make a mould from the prototype and then lay the whole door shell up in one piece....maybe fiberglassing in some metal or resin-soaked rope to add rigidity to the whole thing.

[J R Jones]

I have integrated panels (3 to 1) on my Dino and reconfigured roll-up windows to flush. Once the skin is established the supporting structure has to be added on both sides of the gap and sometimes within the new structure. In my case I have used aluminum extrusions, foam and FRP box sections. All my FRP work is in epoxy.
jim

IMG_0256.jpg
door rework.jpg
IMG_0446.jpg

[crash]

To Shane's point it would require doors that have inner and outer fiberglass structures in order to be strong enough. Even then, all the weight of the doors hangs on the rather thin part of the door roof structure.

These GT40 doors have always been an issue on the real GT40s.

Also think about what happens in the unlikely event that the car ends up upside down. The doors are then not able to be opened and you are stuck in the car.

Can't remember which manufacturer dealt with this, but I recall exploding bolts were part of the solution. I don't think you really want to go there.

EDIT: Sorry, I think I was thinking about the gull wing doors on the Mercedes cars as the GT40s swing out and not up, but if you look at many pictures of the GT40s you will notice mismatches of the doors at the roof lines as this is an issue.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ng-door-bolts/

Just take a look at the GT40s dot com website if you want some background on the potential door issues. From the initial alignment problems to alignment changing over time, these doors are no fun.

Other things to think about here... if you do not do a gull wing design, then the roof overhang attached to the door makes it rather hard to get out of the car unless the door opens very wide. This can be an issue if you have to park close to something...like in a parking lot. There will also be a temptation to grab the overhang to hoist yourself out of the car and this can cause all kinds of issues. Just ask Cobra guys about broken windshields when passengers decide they need to grab the windshield to help themselves out of the car! And a Cobra is no where close to being as hard to get out of as a GTM.

[J R Jones]

We vintage raced a GT40 MKIV for years. The door tops had a thin aluminum skin above the roof/door edge to keep the door from lifting at speed. The door swung wide, that helps with driver changes, but not necessary for street use.

We ran a vintage event at Road America where they feature a race car concours for 116 cars in downtown Elkhart Lake. Staged ahead of us for the trip was a McLaren Can Am car, driven by a crew member. He got too aggressive accelerating on highway 67, spun off the road into the cattails and flipped upside down. We and a Lola T70 pulled over to release the harness and pull the driver out of the water. He got his bell rung, but he was OK. No doors on a McLaren M8.
jim

GT40 ride2.jpg

[Power Surge]

To Shane's point it would require doors that have inner and outer fiberglass structures in order to be strong enough. Even then, all the weight of the doors hangs on the rather thin part of the door roof structure.

These GT40 doors have always been an issue on the real GT40s.

Also think about what happens in the unlikely event that the car ends up upside down. The doors are then not able to be opened and you are stuck in the car.

Can't remember which manufacturer dealt with this, but I recall exploding bolts were part of the solution. I don't think you really want to go there.

EDIT: Sorry, I think I was thinking about the gull wing doors on the Mercedes cars as the GT40s swing out and not up, but if you look at many pictures of the GT40s you will notice mismatches of the doors at the roof lines as this is an issue.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...ng-door-bolts/

Just take a look at the GT40s dot com website if you want some background on the potential door issues. From the initial alignment problems to alignment changing over time, these doors are no fun.

Other things to think about here... if you do not do a gull wing design, then the roof overhang attached to the door makes it rather hard to get out of the car unless the door opens very wide. This can be an issue if you have to park close to something...like in a parking lot. There will also be a temptation to grab the overhang to hoist yourself out of the car and this can cause all kinds of issues. Just ask Cobra guys about broken windshields when passengers decide they need to grab the windshield to help themselves out of the car! And a Cobra is no where close to being as hard to get out of as a GTM.

I know all about doors that are totally not fun to deal with. I own a Bricklin

[Ajzride]

I'm planning to start on this early next year for my 818. I think a few others have done it to 818 as well. My plan is to have a metal core around the glass which is welded to the existing door frame. I'm not sure what type door frames the GTM has, but 818 uses 3/4" square tubing.

[crash]

I know I have made this suggestion before, but if you can get the door sills up a bit on the side of the car it makes for easier getting in and out. This is what I did on the race GTM out of necessity because the fuel tanks are on the sides like a GT40, but you should be able to do something like it on a regular GTM.

IMG_0514.JPG

This setup does have the issue of the doors not being able to be opened if the car ends up on the roof, so I use push pull pins on the hinges of the driver's side door so the whole door can be removed with two pins in an emergency.

While the race GTM does not have windows in it, it does have full window frames in order to support this door hinge setup. We don't care about the window sealing issue, but the full frames would definitely make that solution a bit easier. I feel if you want to seal the windows well, you will need to run full window frames.