Engine Question, should I be concerned

[Wizbangdoodle]

I am at the point of connecting my heater hoses and ran into a little problem. I could not get the plug out of the intake manifold that my engine builder put in, so that I can install a fitting for the hose. I tried penetrating oil, heat, impact driver, nothing even budged this thing.

So I thought I'd take the neck off to look at the back side of this plug. Lo and behold, it looks like there is sand in the intake coolant passage. The neck doesn't look much better. This is the condition that the engine arrived to me. I have not run it, have not added coolant, oil or anything yet. I'm sure I'll have to add a filter to this to get all the crud that is hiding in this engine. Really disappointed in this condition, because I paid top dollar for a custom build from, what I thought was a reputable builder. Now, I'm not so sure.

So, 2 questions. How am I going to get this plug out and should I be concerned that this engine is going to puke on me? I've lost confidence in this builder.

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[gbranham]

How long ago was this engine built, and has it been run since being assembled? The inside of that intake manifold looks like it's been on the road for years. If that was my engine, I'd be sending those pics to the engine builder to explain this. I'm seeing some worrisome signs here, including the passenger-side front intake manifold bolt. I'm not sure what's going on with it, but it looks like that bolt hole was drilled out, and the new bolt is recessed in the opening, somehow.

No way I'd put that engine in a fresh chassis without a full teardown and rebuild, or at least an inspection of the shortblock with the heads off.

[mrglaeser]

This does not look like a fresh build. This looks to me as a used engine. I know builders may dyno their fresh builds and there could be coolant residue but that to me looks like settlement of corrosion. To me that looks like an engine run for a while with tap-water as coolant. I could be wrong. I'd be worried.

[Wizbangdoodle]

Great.

I was sent a video of this engine (allegedly) running back in July I think it was. Engine arrived September 25th. I installed it and began to make all the connections. To say I'm extremely disappointed is an understatement. I'm sure it was run with straight water. Who knows what that left behind.

[michael everson]

A pro engine builder left the plastic that protects the gasket sticky surface that holds it in place? I would question everything.
Mike

[JMD]

I would be more than unhappy if that was the engine I received from any builder. I'm so sorry that happened.

[gbranham]

Great.

I was sent a video of this engine (allegedly) running back in July I think it was. Engine arrived September 25th. I installed it and began to make all the connections. To say I'm extremely disappointed is an understatement. I'm sure it was run with straight water. Who knows what that left behind.

I don't know where you're located, but if you're anywhere near Kansas City, I'd be happy to rebuild that thing for you, free of charge. You provide the gaskets and other parts as necessary, and I'll front the labor. I hate to see people get taken advantage of when it comes to mechanics. I'm sure this really soured your enthusiasm for your project, and not at all what you expected. Just sucks.

Greg

[Tbev]

I don't know where you're located, but if you're anywhere near Kansas City, I'd be happy to rebuild that thing for you, free of charge. You provide the gaskets and other parts as necessary, and I'll front the labor. I hate to see people get taken advantage of when it comes to mechanics. I'm sure this really soured your enthusiasm for your project, and not at all what you expected. Just sucks.

Greg

This right here is why this forum is the best! Good people who just want to help good people.

[michael everson]

As far as getting the plug out. Get the proper size Allen with a 3/8 drive and use a long breaker bar. I have struggled to get some of those out. the sealer can really harden.
Mike

[Bob Cowan]

You said you used heat. On the plug? Or on the aluminum around it?

[Rebostar]

I agree with all the above posts. That right front bolt looks oversized, if not just cheap hardware. NOT ARP or similar. Which could mean a drilled and tapped hole rather than a helicoil in the head. Looking at the water pump and thermostat housing gaskets, I'd say "very unprofessional" looks sloppy, not what I'd expect from any pro builder. That crap in the intake did not "form" from one break in run period in September. Looks several years old at least, maybe older.
If your in the Pacific Northwest, send me a PM and we'll see how we can make it right.

Allyn

[cob427sc]

The "junk" in the intake accumulates that way when plain water is left for a long long time in an engine that was not run. Maybe the intake is different from the one when you saw the engine tested (trying to be positive here) but I can't believe anyone when any engine background would install an intake in that condition on any engine!

[Wizbangdoodle]

I am trying to get my head around this situation. I am floored by the offers from guys on this site, you guys are the best. I'll be contacting some of you through PM. In the meantime, I'll take a lot of pictures and try to get the responsible party to do the right thing.

[Wizbangdoodle]

You said you used heat. On the plug? Or on the aluminum around it?

On the plug itself. I was hoping it just had Loctite on it and that would loosen it up.

[edwardb]

That doesn't look good to me either. Reminds me way too much of the engine I bought for my first Roadster build. A Mk3. I've told the story on here several times. I bought a SBF from a "well known hot rod shop in NC" (their words) on eBay. It had AFR heads, an Edelbrock intake, and other aftermarket parts. Looked decent and I thought I'd scored a good deal. Installed in the build and a year later did my first start. Wouldn't hold oil pressure. Tore it down and all the bearings were long gone. Took the block to a machine shop to do whatever was necessary. Couple thousand dollars later bored out to 306 (necessary), new pistons, rings, crank, cam, bearings, and I had a decent engine. The machine shop said it had never been apart before from the factory and showed over 200K of wear. So that "well known" shop hung some aftermarket parts on a worn out stock block and sold it to an unsuspecting buyer like me on eBay. By that time, they had been banned and removed from eBay (surprise) although I was able to contact them and told them what I thought of them. It's sad that those kinds of businesses are out there. I've only done new engines since.

[Kbl7td]

So I’ll chime in here with the caveat that I’m not that familiar with SBF. However, looking at the pics of the rest of that thing, where was this stored? I’m seeing rust already coming through the block, your intake gaskets look rusted and corroded on the edges, and the intake looks like water has been sitting on top of it?

Even your distributor has nasty water stains all over it, did you pull this out of a boat lol. I’ve seen LS engines sit in the junkyard that are cleaner.

And as others have pointed out there’s a grade 8 hex bolt holding the intake, that should be at very least flanged.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Should I be concerned?

Yes. By the looks of that I have to say that I would trust NOTHING about this engine.

Jeff

[Rdone585]

To me that sand / crystal deposits look like the stuff you put in the coolant in an emergency situation to seal up leaks. So be prepared for anything, I'd do at least a top end tear down. Hopefully the vender will honor their work.

[Bob Cowan]

"On the plug itself. I was hoping it just had Loctite on it and that would loosen it up."

That will cause the plug to expand in the hole, and get tighter. Carefully apply heat to the aluminum around the plug. Try to keep the plug cool. That will cause the hole to slightly enlarge.

[Norm B]

If you heat the whole area with a heat gun then, use an ice cube to quickly cool the plug it should come loose. Judging by your pictures, a stuck plug may be the least of your problems.

Good Luck
Norm

[Wizbangdoodle]

One piece of good info here. I got the plug out. Love Kroil.

[cob427sc]

I guess I would pull the intake manifold and see what the heads look like in both the water ports and the intake ports for cleanliness. If this is a recent rebuild everything should look relatively clean. If you really want to check the cylinders you could use a borescope (cheap one at Harbor Freight) and check the condition of the pistons and cylinders. Both should be almost clean with visible hone marks on the walls.

[efnfast]

Probably the least important issue you're facing, but has anybody seen a silver grade 8 bolt before? Usually grade 8 is yellow zinc ... only time I've seen silver grade 8 is Chineseium on Amazon.

[cv2065]

Probably the least important issue you're facing, but has anybody seen a silver grade 8 bolt before? Usually grade 8 is yellow zinc ... only time I've seen silver grade 8 is Chineseium on Amazon.

You can get Grade 8 bolts in a plain steel finish without the yellow zinc plating, it's just not as rust resistant. You can also get Grade 8 bolts in the black phosphate finish as well.

[Wizbangdoodle]

In all honesty, I've thought about changing out the bolt hardware for something more aesthetically pleasing. Maybe go with an ARP topend package. I definitely want to change out the valve cover bolts for some T bolts. Not sure which ones to get, since these valve covers are a pent roof design and a bit taller than normal covers. Anyone have suggestions?

[rich grsc]

Fix the engine before wasting $$$ on dress up. You asked for suggestions

[gbranham]

Any updates on this? Did you pull the intake manifold to see how things look?

[Wizbangdoodle]

Update: I've done some inspection and am pleased to report, the engine is fresh as a daisy inside. Any thoughts that it was anything other than a fresh build have been dismissed. I'll try to update this again on startup, but I'm out of town until after Thanksgiving. Thanks again to everyone that offered opinions and help, you guys really are the best.

[Rebostar]

Great News..... now relax and enjoy the holiday!