Help Me Understand the XTF

[gbranham]

Help me understand the philosophy of the XTF. I know very little about it, but it appears to be essentially a modern F150 with a different grill and some suspension bits. I don't mean that in a disparaging way...just trying to understand. The rest of the FFR fleet makes sense...some unique designs with modern running gear (818), and the rest are recreations of vintage cars with modern running gear. But the XTF is like a modern, current F150 with a modern, current F150 look. It's like it's replicating what is currently offered by Ford. What am I missing? Why not just start with an F150, and add suspension bits to it?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Help me understand the philosophy of the XTF. I know very little about it, but it appears to be essentially a modern F150 with a different grill and some suspension bits. I don't mean that in a disparaging way...just trying to understand. The rest of the FFR fleet makes sense...some unique designs with modern running gear (818), and the rest are recreations of vintage cars with modern running gear. But the XTF is like a modern, current F150 with a modern, current F150 look. It's like it's replicating what is currently offered by Ford. What am I missing? Why not just start with an F150, and add suspension bits to it?

"Suspension bits"? You obviously haven't been paying attention...IT'S AN ENTIRE TUBULAR CHASSIS WITH LONG TRAVEL SUSPENSION! It uses the F150 cab, engine, trans and differential(s). It also keeps the F150's VIN which means no issues with titling, registration or emissions.

I suggest that you educate yourself by reading through Johnny's and Erik's threads and watch Erik's extensive video series which documents the build.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...nner-build-log

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...n-Complete-***

https://www.youtube.com/@etreves


Jeff

[Indy Shu]

From the Google machine:

A Prerunner is race truck that retains some creature comforts (A/C, cruise control, power windows), this vehicle was designed to pre-run a race course so the team would know what to expect on race day. Lots of horsepower and tons of travel make these vehicles popular for good reason! Finding a used prerunner is easy, finding a high quality used prerunner takes a seasoned eye.

[gbranham]

I'm really not interested in building one...just trying to understand the value prop. I'm not a truck guy, so most of this doesn't resonate with me. But, I get it...stronger chassis, better suspension...for those that run the Baja 1000 and need a truck to run the course ahead of time...FFR to the rescue? I guess off-roaders build insane stuff as much as track guys...like I said...most of it is lost on me.

[J R Jones]

I'm really not interested in building one...just trying to understand the value prop. I'm not a truck guy, so most of this doesn't resonate with me. But, I get it...stronger chassis, better suspension...for those that run the Baja 1000 and need a truck to run the course ahead of time...FFR to the rescue? I guess off-roaders build insane stuff as much as track guys...like I said...most of it is lost on me.

gb, We are not XTF kind of truck guys. My trucks are utility vehicles rounding out my fleet. So the XTF advertising and hype is not for traditional replica or sports car guys.
FFR is speculating on a new customer. I have been curious on the success rate, kit sales and build rate. At this point those numbers reflect the effectiveness of sales and marketing. Evaluating the success of the product is long term.
In my history of OEM recreational products, it was acknowledged that you and sell anything for a year. (early adopters) Product acceptance at five years is another thing. Performance and quality sustain sales in the long run.
Competitors are a factor, a monopoly in the market is great but that can not last forever. OTOH if your competitor is rich and uber-competent, sales will be a struggle. In this case Ford is an uber competent competitor in off road.
jim

[crash]

Why does Ford build the Raptor? The Raptor is by no means a "service truck", yet Ford sells a lot of them.

Need a value proposition? How about Raptor performance(or better) at WAY less cost.

Yeah there is sweat equity, yes there are always some little details to work through, but if you are less than wealthy and want to go play in the dirt at an elevated level then the XTF is a budget way to do that. As with all of the FFR products, think "bang for the buck".

[N2mini1]

As mentioned before it would be nice to know what some of the finished ones have been costing people. I don't see it as being that much cheaper then a used Raptor really. Sure it's a more capable vehicle once built but it's not going to be cheap, when you have to start off with a pretty decent F-150. It can't be in too bad of shape if trying to get a wrecked one to save money as you need all the important stuff at all 4 corners and in the middle.. Time will tell I guess.

[kabacj]

As mentioned before it would be nice to know what some of the finished ones have been costing people. I don't see it as being that much cheaper then a used Raptor really. Sure it's a more capable vehicle once built but it's not going to be cheap, when you have to start off with a pretty decent F-150. It can't be in too bad of shape if trying to get a wrecked one to save money as you need all the important stuff at all 4 corners and in the middle.. Time will tell I guess.

I can tell you from my experience.

IF i purchased a used 2021 raptor I agree it would be slightly cheaper or maybe the same price compared to my kit plus a 10,000 mile 2021 F150 lariat with a coyote

BUT add a ford supercharger and now I have a truck that has more capability than a stock raptor AND I have 720 hp AND I have a V8.

if I wanted to get the raptor up to the XTF level I would need to add a front mid travel kit easily 15k and getting a 4 link in the rear would be some serious fab work $$$.

so if you want the look with a bit more capability get the stage 1 XTF for 10k and you are way ahead of your used raptor cost comparison. If you want a more off road truck get the stage 3 and you are running with the raptors all day and the truck looks much more aggressive in my opinion. You will also be the only one out there with an XTF. That has some value to me.

After having fun with the stock stage 3 for a year, I'm getting ready to take it to the next level with bypass shocks etc.

I am very happy with the choice of the XTF vs the raptor. I really wanted a raptor R, but I could not justify the sticker price let alone the markup.

I love my stage 3 XTF. It checks all the boxes and then some.

John

[JimStone]

There's a niche for anything, but how many people actually spend their free time running full throttle over Baja trails? I wouldn't even know where to do that within 500 miles of where I live.

And how many of those people want a "kit car" style truck?

I'm worried for FFR with this deviation from their proven business model. I want them to succeed and be around for years to come.

[Dgc333]

FWIW, I was at FFR a couple of weeks ago and asked how well the XTF was selling. I was told they had delivered a little over 30 since they introduced it.

[gbranham]

There's a niche for anything, but how many people actually spend their free time running full throttle over Baja trails? I wouldn't even know where to do that within 500 miles of where I live.

And how many of those people want a "kit car" style truck?

I'm worried for FFR with this deviation from their proven business model. I want them to succeed and be around for years to come.

This is exactly where I'm at, and thus my original question.

[acmikee]

its a completely different market ive seen both the FTX extreme and the FTX stage 1 the stage 1 is basically a raptor on steroids the extreme is a full prerunner

[N2mini1]

This past weekend they were building one of these on the Truck U TV Show. Didn't catch the first few minutes, so not sure which variation they were building. I'd assume the full tilt stage 3 as they did mention they expected to have $35,000 plus the cost of the F150 for it's parts in it.. Which could get you into the 50-60,000 dollar range and or more if you opt to add a Supercharger. Unless you happen to already own the F150. I hope they do well. I'm sure out west it will be more popular then on the east coast probably. Seems everyone out there has a truck and there is more places to off road I'd think.. They look cool and if you have the money, it's no different then the Jeep people who spend a fortune on it and it never sees the dirt..

[FFRWRX]

Is the complete lack of any build thread on it (other than those that built prototypes) any indication of how well they are selling? Or have they just not been delivered yet?

[J R Jones]

Is the complete lack of any build thread on it (other than those that built prototypes) any indication of how well they are selling? Or have they just not been delivered yet?

What is the unstated message, now that two defeatured versions have been offered? Model diversity? $$$?
jim