ATX MKIV #9644 Coyote Build Thread (Index Post #137)

[Blitzboy54]

A lot of great detail in here. Much appreciated update.

[dbo_texas]

And finally, here a pic w/ the engine cover installed:

Forgot to post this pic showing the direction/orientation of the MAF sensor. This is the sensor that gets removed from the stock intake/filter box that comes with the crate motor. I have it positioned with the rounded edge toward the bend in the intake elbow, so that the air gets forced into the sensor. If this is incorrect, somebody let me know! It's easy enough to flip - you just have to flip around the Treadstone MAF tube.

[dbo_texas]

I found a 3/8 SAE Quick Disconnect cap to put on the 3/8 port on the outside elbow of the intake. Looks a little cleaner vs. the rubber cap + clamp option. I thought the evap purge vent above the throttle body was also 3/8 but it's slightly larger....maybe 7/16 so I kept that one capped with a clamp. Surprisingly there don't appear to be many places that make these SAE blanking caps, but this is where I got it from if others are interested:
https://www.anhosefittings.com/racef...nking-cap.html

[dbo_texas]

Haven't had a chance to work on the car for about 2 months. I'm planning to take this week off for Thanksgiving and get some good hours in. Tonight I decided to mount the actuator cable for the heater bypass valve. This has been bothering me for a while because I wasn't sure how I was going to do it. Turned out to be pretty simple. I used the bypass valve provided with the kit from FFR and cut the end off which has the screw clamp. Then I just riveted this to the firewall to secure the cable jacket. Tested and seems to work fine.

One question - what's the best way to secure the cable end onto the post? It can slip up or down (and fall off) fairly easily at the moment. Seems like one good bump will knock it off. I thought about using some JB Weld to fix a small washer just before the bend - that would take care of it moving up. I suppose I could do the same on the bottom after installing the cable but that would make servicing it a pain.

[dbo_texas]

Over Thanksgiving break I was able to mount the blast gates for each footbox fresh air vent along with the pull cable. I also made some custom heat shields to create a barrier between the headers and the footboxes and also provide a little extra protection for the fresh air vent hoses. Overall this took way longer than I thought it would take. Not sure how much it will reduce the heat on either to footboxes OR the air vent hoses, but I thought it was worth a shot. I insulated the backside of the heat shields with CoolIT thermal/acoustic stick-on mats. Here are some pictures and videos.

VIDEO overview of driver side:


VIDEO overview of passenger side:
https://youtu.be/Wah3vQmSD20

DS pull cable location (I may need to move this if it interferes w/ the door hinge):


DS blast gate and pull cable routing:


DS heat shield:


Another view of DS heat shield. Mounted using rivet nuts and 10-24 screws. The rivet nuts create about a 3/8" air gap.


And here's the PS pull cable routing:


PS heat shield:

[dbo_texas]

I have a complete setup from Forte - Gen2 Coyote + T56 + Quick Time RM-8080 bellhousing. I'm working on all things electrical, hoping to finish it during the holiday break and realized I don't have the bolts for the starter motor. I've tried a bunch of different bolt sizes and thread pitches, and nothing seems to work. I've tried 3/8x16, 5/16x18, 5/16x24, M8x1.25, and M7x1. The 5/16/18 seems to start threading into the bellhousing but stops pretty quick. The M7x1 actually goes in a little further before it stops. So now I'm thinking maybe it is an M8x1 fine pitch bolt? Weird size if that's it.... Anybody know what is the correct bolt thread size, thread pitch, and length for the mini-starter motor that Forte includes with the Coyote setup? The starter seems to be the stock Ford OEM starter motor for Mustangs as far as I can tell.

I'll give Forte a call after the holidays but was hoping to work on it sooner.

[topherchrisb]

I just put my coyote in a couple days ago. I was able to get to one of the bolts out and take some pictures for you. You're mileage may very with my hardware know how but I tried to give the detail in the pictures you need. Seems to me like 35mm long, m8x1.25, with a 13mm flange head. I tried to upload the photos from my phone but they are SUPER huge. I'll add the photos to this post when I get back to the house and I can edit the sizes on my computer. It'll probably be a few hours as I'm just starting my morning in the shop. Trying to get some things done before the kids wake up.

I was looking at the coyote install instructions and on page 3 they have this part number for the starter bolts W500310.S438 which does say m8 35 long.

It says 1.25 on the die if you can't read it in the picture.

[dbo_texas]

I just put my coyote in a couple days ago. I was able to get to one of the bolts out and take some pictures for you. You're mileage may very with my hardware know how but I tried to give the detail in the pictures you need. Seems to me like 35mm long, m8x1.25, with a 13mm flange head. I tried to upload the photos from my phone but they are SUPER huge. I'll add the photos to this post when I get back to the house and I can edit the sizes on my computer. It'll probably be a few hours as I'm just starting my morning in the shop. Trying to get some things done before the kids wake up.

I was looking at the coyote install instructions and on page 3 they have this part number for the starter bolts W500310.S438 which does say m8 35 long.

It says 1.25 on the die if you can't read it in the picture.

Thanks for checking and confirming the size. I picked up some with these specs (M8x1.25x35) and they worked. I think the threads on my bellhousing were messed up a bit because they still didn’t quite thread in. So I re-tapped with an M8x1.25 tap and then the bolts went in just fine.

Since you just went through this, can you tell me the small post on the starter motor is grounded? After I connected my engine ground strap and the ground from the starter housing (to the engine mount), I was just checking my grounds and tapped the smaller post on the starter which I have the blue starter wire from the Coyote harness connected. I wasn't expecting that to be grounded but for some reason it is. Tomorrow I'll take the lead off and see if the starter wire is grounded or if it is the post itself (on the starter). But either way I was surprised by this.....I don't really know how that post is used so wasn't sure if this is correct or not. If anyone knows, please let me know --> does the Coyote ECU ground this wire until it is triggered?

Also, the instructions don't say anything about having to do anything special when mounting the starter motor. Is there any procedure to check/verify the starter motor gear is aligned properly with the teeth on the flywheel? Is this documented anywhere on the forum?

[topherchrisb]

Thanks for checking and confirming the size. I picked up some with these specs (M8x1.25x35) and they worked. I think the threads on my bellhousing were messed up a bit because they still didn’t quite thread in. So I re-tapped with an M8x1.25 tap and then the bolts went in just fine.

Since you just went through this, can you tell me the small post on the starter motor is grounded? After I connected my engine ground strap and the ground from the starter housing (to the engine mount), I was just checking my grounds and tapped the smaller post on the starter which I have the blue starter wire from the Coyote harness connected. I wasn't expecting that to be grounded but for some reason it is. Tomorrow I'll take the lead off and see if the starter wire is grounded or if it is the post itself (on the starter). But either way I was surprised by this.....I don't really know how that post is used so wasn't sure if this is correct or not. If anyone knows, please let me know --> does the Coyote ECU ground this wire until it is triggered?

Also, the instructions don't say anything about having to do anything special when mounting the starter motor. Is there any procedure to check/verify the starter motor gear is aligned properly with the teeth on the flywheel? Is this documented anywhere on the forum?

Just getting back to the forum... yeah I read this and checked mine. I did get the same result as you with the circuit off the small post being grounded. I'm pretty positive it's wired correctly... but seems unusual. I even powered up the pcm thinking maybe it changes states when it comes on but it was still grounded. I don't have my coolant plumbed yet so I can't try with a start request... it's right next to the exhaust so if it works I probably won't be measuring it in real time neither. When looking up how the solenoid works it may just be the nature of it electronically. It's using an electromagnetic effect from what I see. So no mechanical change is happening to the coiled circuit during a start condition. I don't think I'm too worried about it as I could not find any mentions of this or similar concerns. Hopefully I'll be attempting to start in the next couple days to know for sure.

[dbo_texas]

Just getting back to the forum... yeah I read this and checked mine. I did get the same result as you with the circuit off the small post being grounded. I'm pretty positive it's wired correctly... but seems unusual. I even powered up the pcm thinking maybe it changes states when it comes on but it was still grounded. I don't have my coolant plumbed yet so I can't try with a start request... it's right next to the exhaust so if it works I probably won't be measuring it in real time neither. When looking up how the solenoid works it may just be the nature of it electronically. It's using an electromagnetic effect from what I see. So no mechanical change is happening to the coiled circuit during a start condition. I don't think I'm too worried about it as I could not find any mentions of this or similar concerns. Hopefully I'll be attempting to start in the next couple days to know for sure.

You are correct in your assumption about the wiring inside the starter motor. I did some additional research and asked the Facebook group (Factory Five Builders page) and they all confirmed that you are seeing that terminal grounded because it isn't a switch - its just the positive side of the coil for the electromagnet which drives the solenoid. The other side of that coil is ground....so there is no disconnect. You may measure a slightly higher resistance that a pure ground path but not much. So now it all makes sense. Apply voltage to that post and the magnetic field is created which drives the solenoid and engages the starter gear to the flywheel ring gear teeth.

I also called Forte's and they confirmed that I should not need any special spacers for the combo I have to set proper spacing between starter gear and flywheel teeth. So I just bolted my up. Hoping for first start in the next couple of weeks after I finish up my power steering hoses and add coolant to the system.

[dbo_texas]

I detailed in Post #184 the blower install, and in Post #205 the blast gate install.

Since then, I moved the DS blast gate pull so that it hopefully won't interfere with the door check strap. I just moved it to the front face of the 2x2 frame tube and lowered it a bit.


Next, I went ahead and installed the 3" hoses onto the blowers and blast gates. Both are routed above the heat shields I installed above the headers, hopefully to help keep some of the heat off of the hoses. At the front it's just hanging until I'm ready to put the body on and terminate at the brake duct openings. On the DS, I may have to tweak this a little bit once I go to install the elephant ears. I'll definitely need to add a notch for the hose to pass through. With the hydroboost in the same space, its getting a little packed on this side.




I also found a good way to hold the heater bypass valve choke wire onto the valve stem. I used a 3mm starlock push-on washer. It grips really well and I ended up putting one above and below the choke coil. It worked really well to secure it.

[dbo_texas]

I just happened to be reading through TTimmy's build thread and saw a comment from the one and only Jeff Kleiner about the brake line routing to the master cylinder. He mentions that the front port on the master cylinder should route to the rear brakes and the rear port should route to the front brakes. The explanation that follows seems to make sense to me. In all my years on this forum I had never seen that comment or discussion before....so it got me wondering how I routed my brake lines. Sure enough, I did the same thing. Only difference is I've got a hydroboost in my setup.



So today I went ahead and crossed the hard lines going into the master cylinder banjo connections. The process wasn't too bad - I used a syringe to pull all the brake fluid out of the reservoirs just in case they wanted to drain when I disconnected the lines. I also elevated the hoses from the reservoirs hoping to again prevent a big mess. It seemed to work - very little came out of the ports when I disconnected the hard lines. Anyhow, here's a "after" pick. I just crossed the lines, so all should be good now (front port goes to rear brakes, and rear port goes to front brakes). I will re-bleed the brakes when I have some time.

[TTimmy]

Just got caught up on your build - Good stuff!

Glad to hear you were able to sort out the brakes without too much rework.

TTIMMY!

[dbo_texas]

I had several people recommend I switch out the blue upper ball joint dust boots that Factory Five supplies with some Energy Suspension 5.13102G. I got them for about $10 from Amazon so its a pretty cheap investment for a much better quality part. This set comes with 2 uppers and 2 lowers --> I only used the upper ones. I left the stock FFR lower dust boots because they look OK and I haven't heard of people having any issues with those. If you search the forum, it it littered with tales of the original blue upper dust boots tearing after about 400-500 miles on the road...some don't even make it on the road. Mine weren't torn yet (I'm still building) but I thought I'd go ahead and swap them out.

Many people struggle with getting the upper ball joint stud to release from the socket when trying to swap out this boot. So I made a quick video showing how to do it. It's actually very easy. The steps are:

1. Remove cotter pin and loosen nut but leave it threaded on with 1 or 2 threads. This is to catch the lower control arms from falling once it is loose. You can also put something under the lower arms to support them.
2. Hit the knuckle on the side at the ball joint stud with a big hammer. I used a 5lb sledge hammer and it works great. Here's a video showing how to do it:
   
3. Once the stud is loose in the socket, remove the castle nut (careful the hub/knuckle will rotate down).
4. Once the stud is free from the socket you can slip the old dust boot off, clean up around the ball joint, and replace it with the new boot. It's a messy process due to all the grease so have some paper towels handy. The new boot doesn't stay in place very well until you re-seat the ball joint and tighten it down, then it forces the boot onto the joint lip.
5. Re-install the ball joint into the socket, tighten the castle nut (75 ft-lbs torque) and reinstall the cotter pin
6. Regrease through the zerk fitting on top until the boot starts to swell....don't over do it or it could pop off and spew grease everywhere.

Here are some pictures. This is the original FFR blue dust boot. Mine weren't torn like others experienced:


Removing the FFR dust boot:


The new Energy Suspension boot. Note that in the kit I bought, use the ones with the longer lip (at the bottom of the dust boot in this picture) for the upper ball joint. I think I've read the lower ones that come with this kit area also a perfect fit for the lower ball joints but I didn't install them.


Here's the finished result:

[dbo_texas]

I was finally able to finish up the power steering hoses plumbing. This was a pretty big undertaking, complicated by the addition of hydroboost and an oil cooler. The hydroboost uses the power steering high pressure output to assist the brakes. And I added the oil cooler because I like the aesthetic of the cooler and hoses in the nose opening. This was a pretty expensive undertaking due to all the custom hoses I had to make - meaning lots of AN PTFE stainless braided hoses and many different types of adapters to connect it all together. I had to make a diagram to keep it all straight. This is what I ended up with - and I need to give a big shoutout to Lidodrip for helping clarify a bunch of questions. I basically mimicked his setup but with some slightly different hose routing. Here is a diagram showing all the hoses and adapters used:



If you are interested in the specific parts I used, here's my order spreadsheet. I used 10AN hoses for the oil cooler, and everything else is 6AN. One thing to note, is that I merged the 6AN return from the hydroboost with the 6AN return from the power steering rack into a Y-adapter which has a 10AN output. The output of the Y-adapter goes to the oil cooler, then back to the KRC pump. I guess one thing to note here --> I ended up NOT using (2x) of the Russell 620421 (high pressure right angle 6AN PTFE hose end) and (1x) Russell 620401 because I was able to use the power steering hoses that came with the KRC setup from FFR and just cut off one end and terminate with the connector of my choosing. So I plan on returning those.

Spreadsheet of parts I used: Worth noting that you need to be real careful when buying AN fittings - for power steering you need to use the PTFE hoses which can handle high pressure, and make sure to get the corresponding AN hose ends made for PTFE hose....many are made for EPDM or other hose types and won't work with PTFE. You will know it is the right one if it has the separate little metal ferrule that goes on the end of the hose and the adapter goes into:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Here are some pictures from the build. Every one of the hoses was custom built to length. I cut the PTFE using an angle grinder with a cutoff wheel and wrapped the hose with electrical tape where I made the cuts. This prevented the cut end from fraying until I could get the adapters installed. I started off installing the nose aluminum. I know this isn't supposed to go on until after the body, but I needed to fit the lower piece at a minimum so I could mount the oil cooler. The two side pieces come out easily (just using clecos for now) and can be trimmed and put back on after the body. For the lower piece, I will try to trim in place, but I realize I may have to disconnect the hoses and remove it which would kind of suck. We'll see if it can fit under the body without removing. I can always trim it in place if it is interfering anywhere. To start with the sides, I aligned the notches with the holes for the quick jack studs - this was a tip i.e.427 garage mentions on their video HERE.


Here are the left, right and lower panels mounted. I'm aware Replicaparts makes a nice shroud piece for the nose, but I'm personally not a fan of the rounded appearance so wanted to try to make the FFR pieces work.


After removing the lower panel, I carefully measured where the oil cooler needs to go to center it on the radiator and cut the holes and mounted it. I didn't use the FFR template from their oil cooler install instructions because my oil cooler was different and the holes didn't line up with my parts. I do worry the body will not be centered and therefore the oil cooler won't be centered in the opening....I'll reevaluate when the body goes on. Worst case, I can make another lower panel but hopefully this will work out.


Some shots of the oil cooler installed onto the panel:




And here it is with the hoses installed. I have some cardboard on the sides to keep the braided stainless hose from rubbing off the powder coat. I ended up just removing those side panels since I planned on removing them anyways to fit after the body goes on. I ended up routing the hoses up to the top of the radiator instead of punching holes into the side panels. There are a few reasons for this. One, I like the look of the hoses routed this way, and two, if I have to disconnect the hoses later to get the body one, that's two less parts I'd have to deal with. Again, maybe this will change after the body goes on but for now this is the plan. I did add a couple of hose clamps to secure them to the side panels after final assembly.


Here is a video walkthrough of the hose routing:

[dbo_texas]

I just finished routing all my wiring. Currently I don't have the battery cables connected to the battery, nor is the dash connected (so several of the RF harness wires are dangling, such as the ignition switch wires, headlight connector, and several of the accessory items. I did a thorough review last night and do NOT see anything touching something else (like chassis metal or other wires). Everything looks isolated as far as I can tell.

I wanted to start testing the circuits. My first thought was to check the master cutoff switch was working - and I confirmed it is. When I flip it "off" I get no continuity from the + battery cable to the RF fuse panel (or red ignition wires on the harness). When I flip it "ON" I get continuity. So the master cutoff is doing its job.

Next I wanted to verify I don't have any shorts between +12V battery and ground. This is where I'm at currently, and I think I have a problem. With the master cutoff switch ON, if I probe that + battery cable and touch chassis ground, I get the beeping from my digital multimeter (DMM) indicating continuity between them. When I flip the DMM to measure the resistance, its only about 1.2 ohm. To me this seems like something on the +12V battery circuit is shorted to ground. As mentioned, I don't have the ignition switch hooked up yet (all wires are dangling from the RF harness). The alternator is hooked up to +12V battery (from busbar behind the dash) and also the alternator control plug from the Coyote harness. Starter motor is also wired up (blue starter wire from Coyote ECU, and +12V from master cutoff switched side).

My next test, per suggestion on the FB Builder group, is to add a 5A fuse in-line with the + battery cable, then connect it to the actual battery +12V terminal, and then connect the ground terminal on the battery. If the 5A in-line fuse pops, that would be confirmation that I have a short somewhere.

I'll run this 5A fuse test later today, but assuming the fuse blows, how would I even approach trouble-shooting this? Do I disconnect everything (headlights, parking lights, turn signals, heater, relays, etc), then start connecting stuff one-by-one and checking for +12V shorting at each step?

Or should I hook up the dash connections, and do this same approach with the 5 amp in-line fuse? I just don't want to damage any of the parts so that's why I'm being cautious. Wiring is not my strong suite....I thought I was careful and had it all figured out but now I'm second guessing.

[dbo_texas]

Well after a bit more troubleshooting I figured out my this first electrical issue. I went ahead and put an in-line fuse holder in series between the battery terminal and + battery cable and installed a 7.5A fuse. I then connected the negative battery cable to the battery, expecting the fuse to pop since I was pretty sure I had a +12V short to ground. To my surprise the fuse didn't blow. So next I searched around the car and looked at all the lights (headlights, parking lights, turn signals, courtesy lights, and brake lights)....and voila I immediately noticed both rear brake lights were ON.



I remembered that the FFR provided brake/clutch switch has two sets of terminals, one is normally open and the other is normally closed. I had my brake light wires initially hooked up to the rear set of terminals which are the NO terminals....so with the pedal in the resting position, it actuates the switch and closes the circuit (thus drawing power and lighting up the brake lights). To fix it, I just simply swapped to the front set of NC terminals....now with the pedal in the resting position, the circuit is open as it should be, and the brake lights are NOT running constantly. Easy fix...and thankful it wasn't something more devious.



Just to double check, I confirmed again with my multimeter that the +12V battery cable doesn't have continuity with the chassis ground anywhere. I re-measured the resistance after swapping the brake wires on the switch, and it went from 1.4 ohm originally to about 6-7 mega-ohm after the fix. So all is good now. Next up - checking the rest of the circuits one by one. I'll pull all the fuses from the RF panel and pop them in one at a time, checking each circuit one by one.

[dbo_texas]

I went ahead and swapped all the incandescent bulbs for the LED bulbs from Breeze 70775 LED kit that I bought on the forum. I didn't take pictures of the brake or parking lights bulb swap but those are very straight forward. Just remove the lens, twist the old bulb out and twist the new LED bulb into the socket. It's a drop-in replacement. The kit comes w/ 2x amber LED bulbs for the front parking/turn lights, and 4x red LED bulbs for the rear brakes/running lights/turn signals. I guess only thing worth noting is that the front lenses just twist off, but the rears are held on with 2 screws (from the visible side). On the fronts, I also replaced the amber lens provided with the FFR kit with a clear lens (Lucas L539). This is just a personal preference - I like the look of the clear lenses.

For the headlight bulb swap, the Breeze kit comes with a new Hella lens, LED A4 bulbs, and power converters which plug directly into the FFR 3-pring connector. Here are some pictures, following the Breeze install instructions.

Increase the hole in the bucket to 9/16", then slip the grommet over the LED connector. This was actually the hardest part of the whole conversion. I used a small screwdriver to stretch the grommet and get it over the connector.


Install grommet


Next you need to mount the power ballast for the LED bulb. Breeze instructions show you drilling 5/32 holes in the back of the bucket and securing with included zip ties. So that's what I did - it works well:


Next step was a little confusing for me having never installed the headlight brackets before. The FFR bulbs have features molded in the glass, but the Breeze supplied Hella lens has little metal clips. You need to align these clips with the holes in the bracket. While there are extra holes on the bracket, when you rotate the bracket there is only one position which aligns all 3 brackets with 3 holes. This is the right orientation. Once aligned, install the 3 little clips with the short brass screws.


Next, plug the LED bulb into the lens, and secure w/ the metal wire clips. Then install the lens into the bucket. The slotted tabs on the bracket go into the grooves of the adjustment screws on the bucket (right image):


To secure the lens into the bucket there is a single thread-cutting screw which goes through the remaining metal tab on the bracket and into a boss in the bucket at the 4 o-clock position. Here's the final headlight assembly.


Finally, I mounted the headlights & parking lights to the quick-jack brackets on the front just to keep them suspended for testing. You can see the clear Lucas L539 lenses here.

[dbo_texas]

I went through all the circuits and tested them to make sure power was going where it was supposed to, then went ahead and hooked up the battery. Here's a video I took running through all the different circuits. Overall I'm pretty happy with it....most of the circuits are working as expected, but there are a few items I need to dig into. I'll do a series of much longer posts with lots of pictures of all my wire routing and schematics, but for now this will do:

Items I still need to check/verify:

• When I turn key to ON, sometimes I get 12V on the dash gauge, sometimes I only get about 8V. I'm not sure what's going on here. Cycling the key off/on seems to fix it. This has me a little worried. Need to see if this is an issue or not...and what might be causing it. Almost seems like the ignition switch is a little flakey...I may take apart the cylinder and see if anything strange is happening.
• Turning key to ON results in a sound coming form the trunk area...it's very brief...maybe just 1 second or so and then it stops. Is this the fuel pump? You can hear it at about the 15 second mark in my video below. Can anyone confirm if this is indeed the fuel pump?
• Initially I had an issue with the DS rear tail-light. It wasn't working properly, so I de-pinned the Weatherpack connector and re-terminated the wires, and that seems to have fixed it. I think it was a ground issue with my jumper wires (two wires into one terminal on the connector). I think this one is resolved.
• Wiper park function not working. Low/High speed work, but not park. Could be a number of reasons...I'm using a '65 Mustang rotary switch so not a standard setup. Could be I messed up the wiring (no clear instructions I could find that marries the '65 rotary witch to the FFR wiper), or could be the stuck park switch issue that others have reported (on the motor). I'll probably start there and see if I can take the motor apart and see if the switch is stuck.
• Neither footbox blower is working. I'm not sure why - the billet buttons on the dash light up when headlights are on or if button is pressed --> this was how I intended it. But the relay isn't firing so I'm not sure what the issue is. On the relays for these, both the +coil and device power come from ORG-EFI OR COIL from the RF harness. I confirm I have 12V on the fuse panel so not sure what's going on. I will start by probing the inputs to the relay to make sure its getting power. Then I'll bench test the blowers just to make sure they aren't bad (unlikely).
• I tried cranking the engine one time just to see if the starter motor would fire....I don't have any gas or coolant in yet. I was just hoping for the engine to try to turnover with the starter motor. I pressed the clutch switch (by hand), then turned key to "START"....I hear some noises/relays clicking in the Coyote PDB fuse box, and a single click from the engine bay (maybe the starter solenoid firing?), but no turnover. Transmission was in neutral for this. Not sure what is supposed to happen. Can anyone enlighten me what I should look for here? I haven't had a chance to probe the TAN-ELEC CHOKE wire which I'm connecting to the Coyote 16-pin pigtail light green IGNITION TRIGGER RELAY wire which wakes up the ECU. I did probe the ODB port and pin 16 has 12V power, as it is supposed to. So I have some work to do here.
• I'll need to check the oil pressure & water temp gauges once I start the engine

Systems confirmed working:

• Master cutoff switch works and kills all power to the RF fuse panel; Coyote PDB still gets power because its on the non-switched side of the master cutoff terminals.
• Fuel pump manual manual cutoff switch works (in-line w/ inertia switch)
• Dash gauges all have power & backlighting
• Breeze LED conversion (headlights, tail lights, parking/turn signals) - all working
• FFR Headlight switch working fine - parking lights, headlights, and courtesy lights. Dimmer function doesn't work...lights are either on or off (I have a 2018 harness so this is expected without adding a secondary LED dimmer I believe).
• Headlights - low/high using RT turn signal stock w/ IDIDIT relays switch for control (flash to pass when headlights off and low/high switch when headlights are on)
• Left/Right turn signals using RT turn signal
• Flashers using billet button with diodes (button blinks w/ flashers, all 4 corners blink)
• Horn using billet button (lights up w/ headlights)
• Billet dash indicator LEDs & speedo indicator LEDs
• Reverse light
• License plate light (still using incandescent bulb --> can anyone recommend a good LED replacement? bulb size?)
• Heater - low & high works (didn't run it long enough to feel heat since I'm not running coolant yet)
• Wiper - low & high works. Park function does NOT work.
• Courtesy lights (multiple LED lamps added all over the car - 2x in engine bay, 4x in cockpit, 4x in trunk)

And here is the full walk-through. I'm pretty stoked to finally see some blinky lights!

[dbo_texas]

Well...I'm officially in electrical troubleshooting hell. More details to come later but lots of stuff seems wrong. For some reason, sometimes I get 12V on the RF fuse panel, but most of the time I only get around 9V. In the video above, everything seemed to be working pretty well with the exception of the footbox blowers. But as I played around with it more I started noticing some strange things. For example when I'm in that condition of having only 9V showing on the RF fuse panel busses, if I press the horn button, all the gauges drop them come back up and the horn is muted/muffled like it isn't getting sufficient current/power. I disconnected the battery cables and measured directly across the terminals and get 11.8V so the battery is fine. But as soon as I hook up the cables, and measure across the terminals, I only get about 9V. Even that doesn't make sense to me. If something in the setup is pulling current, wouldn't measuring directly across the battery terminals still give me 12V?

I think I also have a short to ground form my IGN circuits. I'm going to try to isolate which circuit is the problem....I think I will start removing fuses one by one to see if the voltage ever stabilizes. Then if I get all of them removed and still seem to have some type of issue, I'm not sure where to go from there. The tan CHOKE circuit definitely has a path to ground (as indicated by my multimeter showing continuity to GND) but I'm pretty sure since I have that going to the Coyote LT GREEN TRIGGER wire on the 16-pin pigtail that should be a ground path through one of the Coyote relay coils. The resistance on that Coyote LT GREEN TRIGGER wire to GND is about 73 ohms which is what all the other relays measure across the coil. So that seems to make sense at least.

Its strange because even in this lowered voltage state (~9V) all the lighting works just fine (headlights, flashers, brake lights, parking lights, etc). The VOLT gauge also shows 9V instead of 12V (confirmed by probing the brown Gauge Feed wire in the dash harness). I know I'm getting voltage to the Coyote PDB too. Uh...this was my nightmare and why I prolonged the electrical for so long. Just going to take is step by step and try to figure this out. If anyone has suggestions how best track down this gremlin, I'm all ears.

[edwardb]

Time to check your battery. Less than 12V surface voltage (nothing attached) is low. Should be in the 12.6 - 12.8 range. Then when you put just the slightest draw on it (connecting cables, etc.) it drops to 9V, also not good. Time for a test, charge, or maybe replacement. Maybe try a different battery or even jump it? Any auto parts store will test it for you. That's the obvious place to start. Lights (especially LED) will come on with lowered voltage, but higher draw items, like the horn, will just buzz and protest. Start with the obvious first.

[dbo_texas]

Thanks for the suggestion & confirming it shouldn't drop to 9V when the cables are attached. It's a yellow top Optima battery that I bought in July '24 so its been sitting a while. I did hook it up to a trickle charger before I started testing and thought it was good. I'll try to charge it again and see if this changes anything, and if that doesn't work I'll pull the battery and take it to get tested.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Paul is exactly right! You can show ~12 volts static but that doesn't mean that it has enough amperage to carry a load. In simple terms I think you have a dead battery.

Jeff

[Jeff Kleiner]

Paul is exactly right! You can show ~12 volts static but that doesn't mean that it has enough amperage to carry a load. In simple terms I think you have a dead battery.

Jeff

[dbo_texas]

Paul is exactly right! You can show ~12 volts static but that doesn't mean that it has enough amperage to carry a load. In simple terms I think you have a dead battery.

Jeff

Thanks! I'm borrowing a trickle charger from a neighbor. I think I remember you saying for anyone bringing a Yellow Top in their car to you, to bring a charger with it? Maybe I remember that wrong....

[Its Bruce]

• License plate light (still using incandescent bulb --> can anyone recommend a good LED replacement? bulb size?)

Ref. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ate-light-bulb

[dbo_texas]

Ref. https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/show...ate-light-bulb

Yep I found that thread after my post and ended up getting some on Amazon. Should arrive today.

[dbo_texas]

OK - Optima Yellow Top D51 battery got yanked and tested, and as suspected, the battery went bad despite never using it. I guess I let it sit too long (~ 1 yr). It was under warranty (3-yr) so they swapped it out. I had them test the new battery before I took it and it checked out. When I hooked the new battery up, so far it seems that most of my issues have gone away. I'm getting the full 12.6V everywhere I should be now, and the gauges aren't acting weird and power cycling like they were with the bad battery. The only issue I'm currently aware of are my footbox blowers still aren't working. The switch it getting power, and the relay is getting device power input, but I think I may have something wrong with the ground connection on the billet buttons because the relay won't trigger when the button is pressed. I pulled the dash tonight and will re-inspect my button wiring for those blowers. It's the same story on both sides, so I likely just messed up the wiring on the back of the button. I do have it set up so that either the parking lights OR the feed to the relay coil can light up the button (used diodes to prevent back current). I'm wondering if I messed that up somehow. Hopefully its something easy, and I can re-test then go in and clean up all the wiring behind the dash.

[gbranham]

Thanks! I'm borrowing a trickle charger from a neighbor. I think I remember you saying for anyone bringing a Yellow Top in their car to you, to bring a charger with it? Maybe I remember that wrong....

Yep, Jeff said that. He said it to me recently, after I unwittingly bought a craptacular Yellow Top, thinking they were still good batteries. I'll likely replace it with a Walmart Special for 1/3 the price before I take it to Jeff to work his magic.

[dbo_texas]

I'm investigating why my footbox blowers aren't working, and need some help to review the wiring on my billet button. Currently my hazard and horn billet buttons are working perfectly. For the footbox fan buttons, I wired them up so that ideally the button illuminates with either the parking lights OR with button press (latching style). I'm using the Blue LED on the switch, and when key is in ON position, the button does light up with both parking lights or button press. The issue is that the relay controlling the blowers is not triggering. I verified I'm getting 12V IGN to the relay device power input, and I bench tested both the blower and the relay so I know they aren't defective. I'm ~80% sure my problem is how I wired the button.

This diagram shows my current setup. The billet button uses a common anode (+) for all the LEDs, and you just ground the wire color (red/green/blue) you want to light up. For me, that's the blue LED wire. Red, green & yellow (switch normally closed) wires are not used in my setup. As you can see, I have 2 sources of power to this common anode wire (black wire). It can either get +12V from the normally open (NO) contact, so that when you push the button it gets power from the relay coil IGN feed, OR from the parking wire. I have diodes on both the parking wire and the NO wire (i.e. output of the switch) to prevent any reverse current flow. But with this setup, for whatever reason my path to ground (via the blue wire) doesn't seem to close. Which is confusing me because the LED works....which means it does have a ground path. If I probe the terminals with my multi-meter for continuity between the orange and blue wires, it does not show continuity. Any suggestions on what I did wrong here? I've also reached out to Billet Buttons but haven't received a reply yet so hoping someone here could offer some feedback.

[Its Bruce]

You're putting +12V on both* sides of the relay coil (86 & 85). A cursory review suggests you need to take the orange wire off the NO terminal and run it to terminal 87 of the relay. Then connect the NO terminal to ground. There's probably a few ways to do it, but that's just one. Your LED also becomes a good functional relay light when you're parking lights aren't on.

*Edit: I realize now that the "upward facing" diode on the NO circuit prevents +12V from getting to terminal 85. Either way, you aren't completing the relay coil circuit.

[dbo_texas]

Yeah the intent with the diode on the orange wire was to prevent the parking light 12V from going opposite direction into the relay coil (via terminal 85). And I agree that the NO terminal needs to somehow connect to ground to close the relay coil circuit. I thought the way I have it wired would accomplish this (via the black common anode(+) wire then through the blue cathode (-) wire to ground, but apparently not. When I probe orange to blue, I get no continuity. So I'm just confused how the internal function of the switch & LED power works on these buttons.

[Its Bruce]

The LED circuit is independent from the common and NO/NC terminals. I guess that would make a DPDT switch.

[dbo_texas]

The LED circuit is independent from the common and NO/NC terminals. I guess that would make a DPDT switch.

I get that they are two independent circuits. What I'm trying to figure out is how to power the LED from both the parking lights or button press. Currently the lighting part works exactly like that but the ground path for the relay coil doesn't seem to be working which is very confusing (if the LED is working, then there's a ground path....so why isn't the relay working?). I'm wondering if I add a parallel wire from the NO terminal directly to the same ground as the blue LED wire, if that will fix my problem. This basically puts the LED circuit in parallel but also gives the relay coil circuit a direct path to ground when the button is pressed (without having to go through the LED first).

[AndrewIdaho]

I get that they are two independent circuits. What I'm trying to figure out is how to power the LED from both the parking lights or button press. Currently the lighting part works exactly like that but the ground path for the relay coil doesn't seem to be working which is very confusing (if the LED is working, then there's a ground path....so why isn't the relay working?). I'm wondering if I add a parallel wire from the NO terminal directly to the same ground as the blue LED wire, if that will fix my problem. This basically puts the LED circuit in parallel but also gives the relay coil circuit a direct path to ground when the button is pressed (without having to go through the LED first).

Just a thought: I deal with LEDs regularly in the electronics I design and all require a resistor to set the intensity and limit the current to an acceptable amount as to no burnout the LED. Some LEDs have this this resistor built in. Could it be that the LEDS in the switch have such a resistor and this resistor is limiting the current such that it is not enough to energize the relay?

Andrew

Follow on - could you measure the current through the LED and see if it is limited?

[dbo_texas]

Just a thought: I deal with LEDs regularly in the electronics I design and all require a resistor to set the intensity and limit the current to an acceptable amount as to no burnout the LED. Some LEDs have this this resistor built in. Could it be that the LEDS in the switch have such a resistor and this resistor is limiting the current such that it is not enough to energize the relay?

Andrew

Follow on - could you measure the current through the LED and see if it is limited?

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't believe there's a built in resistor in the billet switches but I'm not positive. I say this only because on the Billet Buttons website they have some comments about running the LED in parallel to any device going through the switch so as to not burn out the LED, and recommend using a relay instead which should draw minimal current through the LED circuit. This is what I'm doing so current draw should be small. For the parking lights, I converted everything to LED so current on that should also be relatively low (I think). If I were to try to measure current on the button LED do I just probe each side (black anode terminal and blue ground terminal)?

[AndrewIdaho]

Thanks for the suggestion. I don't believe there's a built in resistor in the billet switches but I'm not positive. I say this only because on the Billet Buttons website they have some comments about running the LED in parallel to any device going through the switch so as to not burn out the LED, and recommend using a relay instead which should draw minimal current through the LED circuit. This is what I'm doing so current draw should be small. For the parking lights, I converted everything to LED so current on that should also be relatively low (I think). If I were to try to measure current on the button LED do I just probe each side (black anode terminal and blue ground terminal)?

I am not sure of the wire colors. Not sure diagrams are visible. Does this help?

12V -----------Anode LED Cathode----------Ammeter--------GND

-------> Current Flow ----------->

Andrew

[dbo_texas]

Well after trying a couple of different things, I've resolved the issue with the footbox blower fan wiring. It is now working as intended with with the button LED illuminating with either the parking lights OR with button press. The only thing I think I will add is a small resistor to dim the lights a little bit (from the parking light feed) and add some additional diodes on the power feed wire going to the blower fan to prevent back-feeding the LED when the fan is free-spinning (not powered on). More details on the discussion/solution HERE.

Now that all my circuits are working, including the Mustang ignition & rotary wiper switch, I'll do a series of posts with schematics for each custom circuit. Mostly for my own records, but hopefully they can help someone else in the future. More to come...