How much power do you plan to make?

[Thorne]

I'm planning on just about 400whp on big power mode and 350whp on daily mode.

EJ257 + EJ205 + 18g + e85
sti-RA gearbox

Speed Density off 03 ecu


If your not sure how to obtain your desired power level feel free to post. I've been tuning subarus since 07.

[spaceywilly]

I found this great thread made by Perrin about modding an old 02 WRX. They ended up making 315WHP. Seems like a pretty similar path to what many of us will be taking with our old 2.0 WRX motors

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1371832

Here is the part specifically about how they made their power
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1548779

I'm currently planning out what I want to do to my 02 WRX/future 818 so any thoughts would be appreciated! Personally I am going for instant response and not huge power.

[Thorne]

A cheap 300hp recipe on a ej205 is as follows. THIS IS CHEAP Method

1. wally 255 or larger fuel pump / e85 go 320 100-200
2. Uppipe Catless 100 ebay
3. Downpipe of your choice 100 ebay
4. Catback (I made 280/280 with stock catback) ebay 100-300
5. VF39/VF43 or other take off turbo 250-500$
6. Modified Stock injectors FREE


on 93 you should be able to hit 300whp with out an issue. if not bring it to me
on e85 in my 03 I made 335awhp/333awtq with a vf39 @ 19-20psi.

Properly tuned EJ205 should safely hold 300whp with out breaking a sweat (I pushed a ej22e to 370awhp after 10kmiles it let go a ringland)


all that for ~1000$ . I ran 12.3 @ 335awhp.

[Thorne]

I can even make you a basemap that would run with that setup
notice i didn't even mention intake. Worst mod for a subaru under 300whp. ebay ones are junk and other ones require a tune or are nothing more then hot air intakes .

[SkiRideDrive]

Thanks for the info. I'd put throttle response/spool time ahead of everything but am looking to achieve as much power as I can while retaining those qualities and not breaking the bank or the transmission. Based on what I've read the trans should be able to hold 300 whp if you are nice to it.

What is the quickest spooling turbo to achieve 300+whp? What do you mean by free injector upgrade? Will turbos spool quicker with the 06 2.5 liter motor due to the increased displacement?

Also, I hear a lot of talk about these "RA" gearsets. What exactly does that mean?

Thanks in advance for the help.

[RM1SepEx]

Only "need" 220 whp for my 818
my goal is 10 lbs per hp when fully loaded... 1800 lbs wet plus two people = 2200 lbs
only planning minor tweaks to my 70k 05 wrx drivetrain...

[Thorne]

Thanks for the info. I'd put throttle response/spool time ahead of everything but am looking to achieve as much power as I can while retaining those qualities and not breaking the bank or the transmission. Based on what I've read the trans should be able to hold 300 whp if you are nice to it.

What is the quickest spooling turbo to achieve 300+whp? What do you mean by free injector upgrade? Will turbos spool quicker with the 06 2.5 liter motor due to the increased displacement?

Also, I hear a lot of talk about these "RA" gearsets. What exactly does that mean?

Thanks in advance for the help.

. the cheapest route to 300 is vf or 16g. Both have similar spools. As soon as i have time I'll grab dynos. But by 3200 they made more tq than stock bo. That is by no means laggy.

Free injectors i mean you chop the tops off its hack but it works have tons of clients running around with my dremel special.

RA gears are a upgraded gearset for the 5 speed box. I personally made 100's of drag passes cutting 1.7-1.8 lights. 12.3 I broke them after years of abuse but im rebuilding them now.

Yes a 2.5 will make you spool faster. My 18g spools faster on my 2.5 than my vf39 did on my 2.0

that's a 2.0 vf39 vs a 2.2 18g e85

ej22 stock turbo cranked up e85

my first ever dyno with stage 1 map. bone stock otherwise vs my 18g e85 2.2 build

[Thorne]

Only "need" 220 whp for my 818
my goal is 10 lbs per hp when fully loaded... 1800 lbs wet plus two people = 2200 lbs
only planning minor tweaks to my 70k 05 wrx drivetrain...

stage 2 is all you need and thats going to be fast enough for allot of people. But I want super car level power. Notice my stock stage 1 tuned 212awhp stage 2 can make 230-240ish awhp so i bet 230 will be easy 2wdd

[Thorne]

the numer on the graphs is not good anymore

[SkiRideDrive]

Thanks for the info!

I have heard of the ppg gearsets... are the RA gears a cheaper/less durable alternative?

One other thing I was curious about was the advantages to all this porting and polishing. Grimspeed offers the service for turbos in addition to the stock headers (which I will be keeping for the suby rumble). Worth it?

[shinn497]

A cheap 300hp recipe on a ej205 is as follows. THIS IS CHEAP Method

1. wally 255 or larger fuel pump / e85 go 320 100-200
2. Uppipe Catless 100 ebay
3. Downpipe of your choice 100 ebay
4. Catback (I made 280/280 with stock catback) ebay 100-300
5. VF39/VF43 or other take off turbo 250-500$
6. Modified Stock injectors FREE
.

How do you modify your injectors? Most exhaust will be heavily modified already due to the engine position. I don't know if many aftermarket parts will actually work. I have the issue of wanting to keep this car legal for CA, so I will eschew most exhaust mods.

My plan is an ej207 ver 8. The only mod I can think of is 85/injectors or meth. Will probably do the former for space/weight reasons. I think that with a tune it could hit 300whp+.

Any idea to do an assured 350 without changing out the turbo? I want to keep it twin scroll.

As for costs, my plan is to offset them with a cheapo impreza donor...

[Mechie3]

312hp/450ft-lb (crank numbers, dyno'd 243/351 @ the wheels, assumed 22% AWD drivetrain loss)

Stock 2.5 block, stock heads, TD04, no water or meth injection. I'm likely going to stick with that setup for now, maybe change the turbo later. My torque graph is super peaky while the HP graph is flat. Might be difficult to drive a lightweight RWD with the peaky torque. A larger turbo with more lag would give me more speed before the turbo hits hard to mitigate wheel spin.

[Zodiac]

In CA I plan on getting the SB100 so the car will be smog exempt. I also plan to eventually get to 400whp but I'm gonna start with a stock sti engine at first and just go from there.

[mekeys]

I would be sticking with a stock engine..

Mel

[Mechie3]

I would be sticking with a stock engine..

Mel

A stock engine (with stock everything else) with an aftermarket downpipe and engine management (reflash of the ECU) can make much more power.

[Silvertop]

An N/A Impreza 2.5 with stock bottom end, cam and valve spring upgrades, intake upgrades, and an ECU reflash. Looking for about 200 flywheel horsepower.

[Xusia]

I'd *LIKE* to make 325 whp, but I doubt that's within my budget. The reason for that number is that it's approximately the same power-to-weight ratio as a 600cc sportbike.

Thanks for the info. I'd put throttle response/spool time ahead of everything but am looking to achieve as much power as I can while retaining those qualities and not breaking the bank or the transmission. Based on what I've read the trans should be able to hold 300 whp if you are nice to it.

What he said!! My goals, in order of importance are:
*Reliability - My intention is to use this as a daily driver
*Throttle Response - It's been my experience you can go faster when you can actually drive the car (around corners, anyway), and throttle response plays a large part in this
*Power - As stated, 325 whp would be my ideal goal, but I think I'm probably going to be settling for 230 - 250 whp.

There is also the potential for me to go electric. I'm still researching and haven't yet found any thing that meets all my goals.

[SkiRideDrive]

I'd *LIKE* to make 325 whp, but I doubt that's within my budget. The reason for that number is that it's approximately the same power-to-weight ratio as a 600cc sportbike.

Now if we can only achieve the power to weight ratio of a literbike....

[Xusia]

Hahaha! I know, right... That's only about 520 whp - no big deal. You should go for it! LOL

[SkiRideDrive]

Maybe in a few years, probably have to updrade the transaxle though. A call to mendeola, albins, or ricardo might be in order.

[metalmaker12]

When we talk whp we should talk about on which dyno. I have a version 8 ej207 with the twin scroll,I figure 300-350whp or more on a mustang dyno were stock sti's put down 215whp. my power will be like 360-410whp on other dynos.

[Etos]

270-300 Wheel HP on an NA destroked 257 to 2.34l. Gonna be tough but I think it's doable.

My biggest issue is drivability. IMO a big turbo on a small tiny light car is going to be hard to control in the corners. No matter when you get the turbo to spool it's still going to be a huge surge of power out of nowhere. Hence why I 'feel' a turbo is not the way to go with this car if you want a good track car. But that's nothing more then my speculation. I'm sure with a big enough tire in the rear it can keep the turbo from kicking the back end. The only thing that worries me is the 40/60 weight ratio.

[Mechie3]

You can always make the car lighter if you want a better p/w ratio.

Lighter wheels, lighter seats, lighter steering wheel, 2 piece rotors, trim the engine harness.

[Nuul]

I'm going for 300-325WHP. I don't know that I'll get there with my budget but I'm going to try.

[shinn497]

When we talk whp we should talk about on which dyno. I have a version 8 ej207 with the twin scroll,I figure 300-350whp or more on a mustang dyno were stock sti's put down 215whp. my power will be like 360-410whp on other dynos.

What mods? that is almost a 28% divetrain loss. Ouch.

[Xusia]

More like an 8% dyno loss! I'm not familiar with Mustang Dyno's, but properly calibrated dyno's should be reasonably close regardless of brand or model. Small differences in results will always be present, but 60 hp? Something's wrong...

[Leonard]

I can even make you a basemap that would run with that setup
notice i didn't even mention intake. Worst mod for a subaru under 300whp. ebay ones are junk and other ones require a tune or are nothing more then hot air intakes .

Packaging of the stock airbox will be a bit of a hassle (see the pictures of the test mule with it wire tied above the rear wheels. I'm sure a modified CAI could be fitted so that it picks up plenty of cool air without much effort.

[Zodiac]

I have read that cold air intakes on turbo charged cars are pretty pointless. the extra distance it has to travel isn't worth it. Plus the fact that the air is cooled through the intercooler before it gets to the intake. So unless you are going NA then don't bother. I know in the EVO world I almost never see anyone with a CAI. My .02

[Mechie3]

Intercoolers can only cool so much. Air heats up only so much when being compressed (and subjected to a hot turbo). If you start with cooler air, heat it, and cool it, the end result is cooler, and thus more dense, then if you start with warmer air, heat it, and cool it. My friend had a short ram on this STI. We did some testing with some thermocouples and found at a stoplight, temps rose upwards of 20-30 degrees (can't remember exact numbers, it's been a few years). At cruise, it was within 10 -15 degrees of ambient. My CAI (filter in the fender well) was within 2 degrees of ambient. I never noticed any issues with throttle response.

[Evan78]

What mods? that is almost a 28% divetrain loss. Ouch.

He is pointing out that different brands/types of dynos tend to read differently from one another. For whatever reason, Mustang dynos often read lower than average.

[Etos]

Pre turbo tubing is not an issue. Post turbo tubing is an issue cause it's that much more space that needs to compress air. Cold air intakes definitely help a bit. Will it make more power on a base engine? Not really make more power as much as let the engine breath better. The big part of an intake box with factory filter is that it's a restriction due to the heavy filter. Cone filters tend to not filter as well thus allow air to pass through easier. So intakes aren't really a power maker as much as a supporting mod for higher power applications.

[Thorne]

Thanks for the info!

I have heard of the ppg gearsets... are the RA gears a cheaper/less durable alternative?

One other thing I was curious about was the advantages to all this porting and polishing. Grimspeed offers the service for turbos in addition to the stock headers (which I will be keeping for the suby rumble). Worth it?

RA gears are cheaper then ppg but allot, I ran them for years with out a issue making 300 -370 awhp and drag racing. So I think with the light weight it will work..

There header portiing is awesome I'm a big fan.

[Thorne]

312hp/450ft-lb (crank numbers, dyno'd 243/351 @ the wheels, assumed 22% AWD drivetrain loss)

Stock 2.5 block, stock heads, TD04, no water or meth injection. I'm likely going to stick with that setup for now, maybe change the turbo later. My torque graph is super peaky while the HP graph is flat. Might be difficult to drive a lightweight RWD with the peaky torque. A larger turbo with more lag would give me more speed before the turbo hits hard to mitigate wheel spin.

It's called ramping your boost in. Your dyno happened by spiking boost to 20+psi and letting it taper off. Just don't tune it that way. I have experiance tuning cars for race car drives and am able to make a car perform in a manner that best suite the platform.

[Thorne]

When we talk whp we should talk about on which dyno. I have a version 8 ej207 with the twin scroll,I figure 300-350whp or more on a mustang dyno were stock sti's put down 215whp. my power will be like 360-410whp on other dynos.

I'm sorry but your mistaken. I have a properly calibrated Mustang AWD-500 and a DJ 424XL they do read off but not to the extent your claiming.

Being that NASA requires the use of a DJ i typically speak in terms of DJ numbers. But do have both.

[Thorne]

Packaging of the stock airbox will be a bit of a hassle (see the pictures of the test mule with it wire tied above the rear wheels. I'm sure a modified CAI could be fitted so that it picks up plenty of cool air without much effort.

COLD AIR will require a tune to be correct, The SPT intake is even off up top. But I'm willing to build basemaps for people to start with and give them away. I just need access to the platform.

Subaru's MAF setup is super sensitive to change even with the same diameter as stock 65-66mm

[Thorne]

Pre turbo tubing is not an issue. Post turbo tubing is an issue cause it's that much more space that needs to compress air. Cold air intakes definitely help a bit. Will it make more power on a base engine? Not really make more power as much as let the engine breath better. The big part of an intake box with factory filter is that it's a restriction due to the heavy filter. Cone filters tend to not filter as well thus allow air to pass through easier. So intakes aren't really a power maker as much as a supporting mod for higher power applications.

stock airbox is good to 300awhp. Pre turbo piping matters a ton when your dealing with a MAF based setup.

[Thorne]

Intercoolers can only cool so much. Air heats up only so much when being compressed (and subjected to a hot turbo). If you start with cooler air, heat it, and cool it, the end result is cooler, and thus more dense, then if you start with warmer air, heat it, and cool it. My friend had a short ram on this STI. We did some testing with some thermocouples and found at a stoplight, temps rose upwards of 20-30 degrees (can't remember exact numbers, it's been a few years). At cruise, it was within 10 -15 degrees of ambient. My CAI (filter in the fender well) was within 2 degrees of ambient. I never noticed any issues with throttle response.

Throttle issues is due to tune, I just did a SPT sti and the stop light temps where over 150, No issues its all about tip in.

[Etos]

Subaru's MAF setup is super sensitive to change even with the same diameter as stock 65-66mm

A good tuner would be able to compensate the diameter easily. It's done all the time with bigger intakes. Regardless I was talking about the amount of tubing not the diameter.

[Thorne]

A good tuner would be able to compensate the diameter easily. It's done all the time with bigger intakes. Regardless I was talking about the amount of tubing not the diameter.

I'm a protuner I understand this. I'm offering to make free BASEMAPS for people running 818s. But for a intake to be properly scaled you need a wideband / logger and someone who don't care about tickets or a dyno. I have 2 at my disposal.

I work @ www.ipsmotorsports.net
Part time now used to be fulltime

[Gary in NJ]

An N/A Impreza 2.5 with stock bottom end, cam and valve spring upgrades, intake upgrades, and an ECU reflash. Looking for about 200 flywheel horsepower.

This. I'll be plenty happy with a car that has a 10:1 Weight to Power ratio. I'd like to keep my driving privileges.