818R "Glynman Style"

[Frank818]

Yeah those are great.

[Scargo]

Good evening boys and girls.
Pete came over this afternoon and I had the suspension mocked up and waiting for his critique and our measuring of its geometry. I did the arms in 1/2" electrical PVC tubing. Drilling out the ends allowed them to fit the 3/4 threads. As is, they accept 1/2" diameter studs. I used hot-melt adhesive to glue it together and it was quite sturdy.
We measured camber and caster and discussed what to do next. Pete said we were 70% there and that it just required a few tweaks and a resolving of interference of the Howe ball joint with the inside of the rim. I need to order a shorter version of the ball-stud. My placement of the master cylinder set is in conflict with the lower control arm mounting position. This evolved into a discussion of making the car a single-seater that is in the middle of the car. I doubt I'll do that but I do have to move the master cylinders or switch to the Tilton hung version. The rear wheels will work fine and I suspect the fronts will be fine, too. Because of the ball-joint interference we did not get the front wheels on fully. Tomorrow I will get race tires mounted.
FullSizeRender (10).jpgFullSizeRender (14).jpgFullSizeRender (11).jpg
FullSizeRender (13).jpgFullSizeRender (12).jpg

[Gary Livingston]

Like the lateral links and trailing arms. Did you buy that as extruded Al stock, machine and thread?

I see you are a frame hacker like me. Looks nice. Those knuckles look lighter.

[Santiago]

Damn. I was hoping your custom LCA/mounts would mean you'd be clear of the floor-mount masters. Of course, going to a single-seater would solve that easily, but if that's the plan then you've got a lot more frame hacking options. For me, the fact it's a two-seater satisfied mandatory requirements for me.

Anyway, here's a long shot to consider, mount the pedal assembly over the LCA mount. What's that, an inch or two higher? That may require a more reclined seating position to feel comfortable, but that would gain you even more headroom under the main hoop. Just a thought.

Looking super cool so far!

Best,
-j

[Scargo]

No (though I do have a lathe). It's Quickcar Racing Products 3/4" (thread) aluminum scalloped tube. I bought some from Amazon and some from Pitstopusa.com. Mentioned here in my build thread. They are claiming that they are light, yet strong for their size because of the scalloping. They will require watching and keeping tight since I will be running a steel thread Heim joint end in an aluminum body. If they ever got loose they would wallow out quickly. I'll be using some Locktite. I have experience running Agency Power's aluminum LCAs on my STi track car. I am not recommending them but I will try them in my build.
The Honda S2000 uprights are light. They are also capable of being easily modified and many brake kits and aftermarket parts are available for them. They have 8.4° KPI. The lower ball-joint can be shimmed down. A steering arm can be inserted in-between, if you wish for the rack to be lower or if you want a different ratio or different Ackerman. I will do a weight breakdown, once I have the components finalized. I anticipate saving 10-20 pounds per side on un-sprung weight.
FYI: our measurements on the car (camber gain and caster during bump and bump-steer) shows the mock-up to have good geometry for a race car.

I am finding that the steering arms of the S2000 uprights will probably play nice with the steering rack mounts that FFR provides. That is next on my agenda; picking a steering rack.
Yes, I like to hack. Nothing is sacred. I need to find a sheet-metal shop with a laser cutter to do all my brackets. I may pass on my design to Pete and he/we may be offering the parts to do this mod. Right now we are just prototyping mine and scheming. I may make multiple sets if I need to fill out a half-sheet of laser-cutting to make it economical.

[metalmaker12]

FFR has a laser and would prob help you and send them to you for a standard fee. What is the design of the bracket you need cut, I also have access to a waterjet cutter not far from me. Like how your modding it up, interesting ideas, which should pay off. If I built an R I would put the seat in the middle and us a totally different drivetrain... V8 ls3 with perhaps a Porsche tranny or the subie 6 modded with some different gears. But I stayed away from making it that type of project because I have limited build time with a young family, work etc. I am jealous dude, I only get to fab cool stuff up at work that does not bennift me.

[Scargo]

Stuck the wheels on the suspension. I am very happy with the rear fitment, but the front needs work.
When I initially laid out the LCA I guesstimated the three points by using an '08 STi LCA as a template for the layout. Remember that the rear mounting points are gone and the front brackets must have new holes drilled. I did not use the published wheelbase dimension to double-check my spindle placement, which I now regret. While the front geometry is quite good, I need to bring the wheel center-line at least an inch forward. The tire hits the body when turned in at the rear (or the left wheel turned left).

How much lock to lock angle is enough for a race car? I have about 25° when turned right and 20°+ for left before it either interferes with the steering linkage in the front or rubs on the upper control arm (again, I'm mocking up my suspension design on the left-front).
I'll get this fixed tomorrow I hope.

FullSizeRender (17).jpgFullSizeRender (18).jpg
Also, I misspoke about the tires. The fronts are Continental Extreme Contact DR, with an ST stamping and are 225x45x17, NOT 245x40x17 as I previously stated. Same for the 245 rears. They are also 45 aspect ratio sidewalls and they are stamped ST-1. I am curious about what the ST and ST-1 means.

[FFRSpec72]

They are stamped ST and not GT ? I have seen GT-1 tires but not ST-1

[Scargo]

FullSizeRender (19).jpg
245x45x17.
The smaller front just has "ST".
I was told these came off a Porsche "Cup car". On IMSA's site I see it is Street Tuner class, meaning it was a Porsche Boxster or Cayman. -1 must just mean it is for the rear.
Got theses cheap, so mounted and balanced I have $70 each in them. They have lots of rubber on them. I think they will be good "training wheels".

[Scargo]

I'm retreating or perhaps only detouring for the moment. I have not received any input on dimensions for locating the wheel center-lines so I am taking a different tack, if you will.
I've fitted most of the body panels and hopefully, will get the nose on today. I've centered the rear wheel relative to clearance when I go into bump vs looks and balancing that with as minimal amount of axle angle as I can afford. I'll be re-configuring the LCA in the front with my just received, shorter Howe ball-studs. Then I'll attempt the 96" wheelbase by how I position the front LCA and hopefully have it fit in the wheel well properly.
It's fun wrangling these fiberglass body parts! Lots of trimming to do to get surfaces to align.
FullSizeRender (23).jpgFullSizeRender (21).jpgFullSizeRender (22).jpg

[FFRSpec72]

I just got the side panels out this weekend to start to get them mounted so I can figure out the wing mount and other stuff. Have you decided on how you will mount the body panels yet (with what hardware) ? I just got a new body for my challenge car so that will be taking up some time also. Keep us posted on how this works out

[Scargo]

When I get a feel for everything I will decide. Sails and doors will be bolted together and material removed where it's not needed. I may cut off the pieces of the engine cover that run up to the back of the doors and incorporate them into the sails.
It will be slick if I can tilt the front-end forward. That may not be too hard. I think the engine covers will come off together and perhaps the wing braces will be pinned on so the whole wing assembly can be detached.
I will be using Dzus fasteners in some places and I am trying to find an American equivalent version of BigHead fasteners like these:
fixing3.jpegfixing2.jpeg
Those I will bond on with a structural adhesive. Some studs may poke through the fiberglass to the finished side. Even nuts could be flush to the finished side.
I like the Aerocatch products. Most likely I will use those front and back. Flush and bonded-in.

[STiPWRD]

I will be using Dzus fasteners in some places and I am trying to find an American equivalent version of BigHead fasteners like these:
fixing3.jpegfixing2.jpeg
Those I will bond on with a structural adhesive. Some studs may poke through the fiberglass to the finished side. Even nuts could be flush to the finished side.
I like the Aerocatch products. Most likely I will use those front and back. Flush and bonded-in.

McMaster-Carr sells these:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-threaded-rods/=vy9f46

Also, Mike Everson used some of them to mount his body
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post127339

[Scargo]

Thanks! McMaster-Carr also has two styles of nuts! Now, find them in Metric... Call me crazy, but I was wanting to do as much as possible in Metric. That would just leave some suspension bolts in SAE.

[Ellimist]

I just got the side panels out this weekend to start to get them mounted so I can figure out the wing mount and other stuff. Have you decided on how you will mount the body panels yet (with what hardware) ? I just got a new body for my challenge car so that will be taking up some time also. Keep us posted on how this works out

Hey Tony,
I got to admire your new challenge car body when my kit got delivered (that's my 818 hanging over it):
P1010977 - Copy.JPG

[Scargo]

And what does this have to do with my build thread?

[Mechie3]

It's a comment related to another comment made in your thread. All part of a story.

For laser cutting you can try Fab 2 Order. They're a shop I use that has excellent pricing.

[FFRSpec72]

Hey Tony,
I got to admire your new challenge car body when my kit got delivered (that's my 818 hanging over it):

So you are the one that held my body up for like 4 weeks ! My body shipped on the 1/14 and it showed up on 2/15. I wish you would have done some body work on it for me !

[Scargo]

Perhaps I am being overly sensitive. Perhaps I am out of touch with what goes on within internet forums. I don't intend to offend anyone.

I consider this to be my build thread. Ellimist, you have never posted to my build thread before. In your first post your only remark is an off-topic pleasantry to another member; nothing at all to do with my build! Then it goes on.

I'd like to know what you guys think of my build. I value the input. Many have given me valuable information and comments.
I would like for my build thread to be an informative, information-packed, technical thread from someone who is taking the road less traveled. I'd like to see posts that are relevant; having something to do with my build.

[Mechie3]

I like the non standard work you're doing like the S2000 hubs. I can make parts like hubs, and carriers, and brackets and other fun stuff, but I've never tried my hand at suspension design from scratch. I leave that to people who know what they're doing. Too easy to end up with something that doesn't work.

[Ellimist]

Perhaps I am being overly sensitive. Perhaps I am out of touch with what goes on within internet forums. I don't intend to offend anyone.

I consider this to be my build thread. Ellimist, you have never posted to my build thread before. In your first post your only remark is an off-topic pleasantry to another member; nothing at all to do with my build! Then it goes on.

I'd like to know what you guys think of my build. I value the input. Many have given me valuable information and comments.
I would like for my build thread to be an informative, information-packed, technical thread from someone who is taking the road less traveled. I'd like to see posts that are relevant; having something to do with my build.

I've admired your thread and I attribute my lack of contribution to my being a novice in car projects. I've learned a lot from yours and others' threads and regret not being able to be more constructive. I see I have made a serious mistake in mucking up your thread and I sincerely apologize and won't post again after this post unless I feel it's valuable to you and your project. Regards,

[Scargo]

Apology accepted and I appreciate the comment. At times I take this project very seriously. Other times I like to add a bit of whimsy. I worry about getting it right after I've stuck my neck out, so to speak.
I am retired. It is my main project and main focus of my energies. It's a bit of a culmination of my artistic, engineering and machinist's skills. The suspension design has been challenging. I'm almost out of the woods with it. I should have pictures soon of the last mock-up before I weld steel.
I have placed no final deadline on myself. I hope I can drive it this year. I do take off a significant amount of time during the summer to enjoy the fruits of my last labor, our cabin in BC.

The 818's a bit of a last hurrah. I am still capable of working on it and building most of it by myself. It becomes a bit of a crap-shoot as I aproach 70. I can still drive. I hope to be able to drive this a bit before I call it quits. How old was Paul Newman before he hung up his saddle? Next month I go back to his home turf for my first track day this year.

[freds]

It becomes a bit of a crap-shoot as I approach 70. I can still drive. I hope to be able to drive this a bit before I call it quits. How old was Paul Newman before he hung up his saddle? Next month I go back to his home turf for my first track day this year.[/QUOTE]

Easy now youngster!
Please don't even think about calling it quits. I'll be 72 in a few months, and am really enjoying driving my 818 regularly....I am seriously concerned about what to do next. I have to be busy.
Love your cabin!

fred

[Mechie3]

There's a guy local to me that autocrosses a supercharged flat 6 corvair spider (not at all stock) and road races that one and another corvair. He's approaching his 80's.

[FFRSpec72]

How old was Paul Newman before he hung up his saddle? Next month I go back to his home turf for my first track day this year.

He was getting up there in age as I used to race with him at Summit Point back in the 70s, he would always disappoint the young girls we had in the pits as there were some split rail fences and we would all jump/leap over them and Paul would sort of climb over them. He was very nice in the pits, down to earth, never a issue not even a large support team, like I see folks having these days.

[Scargo]

Michael Everson's posts from 161 down show what I'm currently dealing with on the front-end.
FullSizeRender (24).jpg
I've had to notch out the FRP where it hits the radiator mount upper crossbar, just like Michael has done, though I haven't gone that far yet. In the image (you cannot tell it) but I'm still 1-1/2" from being back under the front bar that I've clamped to. I thought from the manual that the area I've clamped to was supposed to line up with the bar and be up against it and bolted together. This looks unrealistic to me.
What have others done? I see Michael used an aluminum angle to bridge the gap.

[Mechie3]

Ditto. I notched out mine. I haven't made a bracket yet but need to. Several others have made brackets as well.

[Frank818]

Scargo, maybe I missed that post a while back, but what is the reason why you aim for 99% metric fasteners?
I wish I could have done it as I am always mixing between SAE and metric, but I decided to put my priorities elsewhere if I want to drive it in 2015.

[metalmaker12]

Michael Everson's posts from 161 down show what I'm currently dealing with on the front-end.
FullSizeRender (24).jpg
I've had to notch out the FRP where it hits the radiator mount upper crossbar, just like Michael has done, though I haven't gone that far yet. In the image (you cannot tell it) but I'm still 1-1/2" from being back under the front bar that I've clamped to. I thought from the manual that the area I've clamped to was supposed to line up with the bar and be up against it and bolted together. This looks unrealistic to me.
What have others done? I see Michael used an aluminum angle to bridge the gap.

We all did that!!mike and I came across that at a similar time with the same outcome

[Scargo]

Frank, I have all the time in the world right now. I'd rather not have the confusion at the track or when I have to start tearing back into the car.
I have tried to use some of the FFR supplied suspension pieces I like and have compromised the suspension totally, in regards to being all Metric, as I don't even recall seeing Heim joints in Metric and I am using high-strength SAE hex drive cap screws in the suspension in most places.

Body: I am closing in on a front suspension setup. While I was fitting the body and trying to maximize the front suspension footprint I decided to stop considering creating new fender flares for now.
I now have these constraints: No flares, no cutting into the main, 1-1/2" frame and use the 8 X 17, 49 ET wheels with 225 X 45 Conti slicks (24.5" OD) as my must fit wheel.
As I fit the four front body parts on the car and considered bonding them all together for a tilt front-end I thought of another thing I could do. Raise the body! The sails wrap under the chassis and, for all practical purposes, dictate all the alignment and fit of the other parts. What if I cut the sails so I can raise the front or the rear or both? I'd weld six or more Dzus fastener mounts to the sides and no FRP would be below the frame. The body would rise up at least the thickness of the sail's FRP thickness.
Granted, it raises the CG slightly, but theoretically, the car could be run lower by that amount. There would perhaps be a half-pound in weight savings and I'd be able to manipulate the body a bit more. Would a 1/4" of added tire clearance at the flares make a difference? I will find out today.
I welcome everyone's input!

[Scargo]

Today I butchered me some FRP. I trimmed off four pounds from the driver's side. I estimate that I can trim fifteen pounds off the sides before I address the "big butt" rear end or the front.
BTW, the Ingersoll Rand 529, Low Vibration Reciprocating Air Saw is an absolute gem of a tool. It is an amazing, lightweight tool that lets you "sculpt" FRP with one hand.

[Scargo]

Here's what I've been up to. I have Loctite 50ml Durabond E-120hp Epoxy adhesive coming to attach studs and female threaded collars, mounted on perforated baseplates. I'll be welding some tabs on the frame to hold the sail.
FullSizeRender (29).jpgFullSizeRender (27).jpgFullSizeRender (26).jpgsmallsizeRender (28).jpg

[xxguitarist]

Looks nice- Did you weigh the removed bits?

[Scargo]

I would say it has been 11 pounds so far. I only had nine pounds that didn't make it into the trash cans. I had help with this and my helper tossed some smaller pieces that I was unwilling to dig out. One pound of dust...? Guess I could weight the Shop-Vac contents!
I still have the hood and rear to do. To offset that I will be adding additional brackets that look like they might be a third-pound.

[Scargo]

Here's the latest on the front suspension design. It's within a 1/4" or less of where I want it, in regards to the wheel fitment. I get two inches of bump before the tire touches in full lock. I have over a quarter of an inch clearance from the frame at the back. Five degrees caster/2.2° negative camber (.5° camber gain per inch), 24.5" OD tire. Less that 96" wheelbase*! Closer to 95. I'll get track width later today.
I should have it finalized soon.
FullSizeRender (30).jpg
* I see that FFR is saying the wheelbase IS 95". I received information that it was 96" before the 95" was publicized on the 818 advertising page.

[Santiago]

Great looking progress Glyn!

Me'thinks Rasmus is envious of your weight loss tactics ("Why didn't I think of that?!?").

Best,
-j

[Scargo]

Why thank you Dr. Santiago. (your comments are more like dissertations and much more intellectual sounding than my comments)
I wished Rasmus was around. I even tried calling him, to no avail. I wonder what happened to him?

[Harley818]

I was going to ask you what the connection was to sunshine coast in BC, then you posted a picture of your cabin. We will have to connect when you are here this summer. I too built a cabin up the sunshine coast, on Nelson island, oceanfront. I might be able to arrange to drive the sunshine coast in an 818 when mine is done......
We will have to compare notes on cabins.
Great thread by the way.

[Mechie3]

I might have to try out that ingersoll rand saw. I have a cheapie harbor freight saw that was ~$15 on sale. It works for about 5 seconds then binds up. I think it's an air push with a weak spring return. Cutting with it is more frustrating than anything. The 529 saw is $150, but on amazon has only 5 star reviews.

[Scargo]

And, you can add my glowing review to the others...