Ingress and Egress

[Oppenheimer]

Most cars without a top are pretty easy to get into. However, put a low top on and that same car becomes a yoga exercise especially for the bigger guys. I posted in one of the other threads that I think it would be better to have the doors part of the hardtop. I know you think I'm crazy but think about the upside. With no door in the main shell the frame could be full height front to back like an exo car, very strong. I envision a low sill height, around 30". Most desk tops are around 30", pretty easy to slide over the top. The car would end up very similiar to an exo car except with a full body, and a windsheild. The top would look like a T-top. When the doors open part of the top goes with it, so now you slide over and down instead of trying to bend in half. No your not going to have roll up windows but based on the 1800 lbs finished weight I don't think you're going to get those anyway. Go ahead, tell me what you think, maybe I am crazy

P.S. My wife is not going to crawl around on her hands and knees to get into any car, evening gown or not.

So is this like Gull-Wing doors, hinge is in the center of the roof, 'top' portion of door & 'T-top' portion of roof swing open together? I think that could work. Did you ever see that show 'Hardcastle & McCormick'? They had this customized McLaren replica, they called it the Coyote X, it had a 'T-top' like roof (but no roof panels or side windows), and that is how they got in & out of the car, sit on the sill, swing legs inside, slide in.

But couldn't you still have roll-up windows with gull-wing doors?

[D2W]

So is this like Gull-Wing doors, hinge is in the center of the roof, 'top' portion of door & 'T-top' portion of roof swing open together? I think that could work. Did you ever see that show 'Hardcastle & McCormick'? They had this customized McLaren replica, they called it the Coyote X, it had a 'T-top' like roof (but no roof panels or side windows), and that is how they got in & out of the car, sit on the sill, swing legs inside, slide in.

But couldn't you still have roll-up windows with gull-wing doors?

Yes, the Coyote X (Manta Montage) access is what I'm describing. I'm thinking that if the door opened forward and up (similiar to an Ultima) it would allow a bigger opening. When the top comes off so do the doors so roll up windows wouldn't be possible. But in this configuration you could run as a roadster, as an open t-top coupe, or a closed coupe with the doors.
DP

[Oppenheimer]

Yes, the Coyote X (Manta Montage) access is what I'm describing. I'm thinking that if the door opened forward and up (similiar to an Ultima) it would allow a bigger opening. When the top comes off so do the doors so roll up windows wouldn't be possible. But in this configuration you could run as a roadster, as an open t-top coupe, or a closed coupe with the doors.
DP

Cool. Not picturing though how the door opening could be bigger if the doors opened 'Lamborgini' style than if they were just gullwing?

I see how you'd only have windows (or doors) when running as a Coupe (but when in this configuration it could allow for roll-up windows), and how this setup would lend itself to modular roof options (Coupe, T-tops, Roadster). I like the concept.

I was reading up on the Elise, and I like how you can run as a Targa, but carry a cloth roof panel for bad weather (and with its roll-up windows, its weather-tight), or use a hard panel for a very Coupe like experience. Make ours so the back half of the 'Targa' is removable (for Roadster config), and you have a very modular setup that provides FFR builders a lot of options.

With your modular gullwing concept, perhaps they could make fabric 'doors' (like Jeep's) that snap into place, with a vinyl window. Cloth rolls up and stows easily. Achieve a similar modular capability, but with the 'tall sill' attributes you mentioned (stiffer frame, 'sit-n-spin' ingress/egress, etc).

[D2W]

Cool. Not picturing though how the door opening could be bigger if the doors opened 'Lamborgini' style than if they were just gullwing?

I see how you'd only have windows (or doors) when running as a Coupe (but when in this configuration it could allow for roll-up windows), and how this setup would lend itself to modular roof options (Coupe, T-tops, Roadster). I like the concept.

I was reading up on the Elise, and I like how you can run as a Targa, but carry a cloth roof panel for bad weather (and with its roll-up windows, its weather-tight), or use a hard panel for a very Coupe like experience. Make ours so the back half of the 'Targa' is removable (for Roadster config), and you have a very modular setup that provides FFR builders a lot of options.

With your modular gullwing concept, perhaps they could make fabric 'doors' (like Jeep's) that snap into place, with a vinyl window. Cloth rolls up and stows easily. Achieve a similar modular capability, but with the 'tall sill' attributes you mentioned (stiffer frame, 'sit-n-spin' ingress/egress, etc).

I'm not sure how much headroom is possible if the doors were gullwing style, might bang your head sliding in. The doors would be more like window frames, so I just don't see how it would have enough depth to have roll up windows. If there isn't room to store the doors on board your idea of soft doors could be great.
Another idea, if the main body didn't have a door but you integrated a roll-up window in the body side, then made a t-top configuration where the outside opened up gullwing style could be good. You'd have to be able to roll the windows down remotely and the design would work a lot better as a targa, but that could be a good design too. Although probably a lot heavier.
DP

[Oppenheimer]

I'm not sure how much headroom is possible if the doors were gullwing style, might bang your head sliding in. The doors would be more like window frames, so I just don't see how it would have enough depth to have roll up windows. If there isn't room to store the doors on board your idea of soft doors could be great.
Another idea, if the main body didn't have a door but you integrated a roll-up window in the body side, then made a t-top configuration where the outside opened up gullwing style could be good. You'd have to be able to roll the windows down remotely and the design would work a lot better as a targa, but that could be a good design too. Although probably a lot heavier.
DP

Wow, I like that. Kinda like T-tops with a center hinge, where you could either 'open' the top for ingress/egress, or remove the T-top from the roof for 'Targa' operation. Window roll-up is part of the body, there is no door at all. Ingress-egress via 'sit-n-spin'.

This could still allow for Roadster operation if the rear portion of the Targa were designed as removable. You sell the kit as a Roadster (and meet/exceed all the weight/cost targets), and sell the window kit, rear 'Targa' roof, T-Top panels (or cloth roof panels ala Elise) as piece-meal options, buyer buys whichever configuration(s) they want.

[Gollum]

I'm 6'2" and 260lbs, I get in and out of my MKII roadster with little to no problem, depending on how much I ate that day and I am very comfortable in the car. I see no reason I can't get the same thing from a car, WITH DOORS and a wheel base 5" longer

I've never had a problem getting in and out of a roadster. It's that darned top that's the problem! :-D

Gollum, one note if you ever ride in a FFR Roadster, please please please don't reach up and grab the windshiled to pull yourself up. Better to do the opposite of what you did getting in, slide back up the seat, and then step out.

_Scott

No worries. I'd never pull that unless I knew the car (and the owner) well enough to trust it.


Thinking about alternative door ideas, I'd never had the pleasure of using their door in person, but the koeingieissseegggereifalia seems to have a great system. Gets the door completely out of your way (unlike a full gulwing which gets in your way) but can also be opened up in tight corridors (unlike the GT40 & Ford GT). The big downside is that designing that complex of a hinge system isn't an easy task, and could drive the cost up.

Another issue that "lambo" or other door systems like that cause though, is that you're kind stuck with the top options you choose. It's a bit more tricky to design a removable top around a door that moves like that. Making it a fixed hard top is the easy route. Next would be a targa option. Building a frameless side window that seals on a removable hard top while still allowing the door to open and close easily seems like a serious challenge.