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Thread: MRG MotorSports 818S Build

  1. #601
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    took the car over to TIC today for an alignment.
    Bob
    P1050542s.jpg
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  2. #602
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    What hatch angle is going to give me the most down force?

    IMG_20150801_225641575_HDRs.jpg
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  3. #603
    Senior Member mikeb75's Avatar
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    Impressive! Makes a deck lip look like a piker.
    818SC chassis #206 EJ207 2.0L VF37 twin scroll || Cusco type RS 1.5 LSD || Wilwood pedal box (firewall attach) || Wilwood superlite front calipers
    BUILD Phase 1: 6/6/2014 car delivered || 5/24/2015 first start || 6/7/2015 go karted || 4/20/2016 hard-top-topped || 10/25/2016 registered || 11/18/2016 inspected & complete
    BUILD Phase 2: 3/8/2017 EJ207v8 || 5/29/2017 re-first re-start || 7/17/2017 re-assembled with race car bits

  4. #604
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Accusump installation

    Michael is working on the Accusump installation.
    I circled in blue where he is going to hook up the -10 line to the Accusump.

    OilGalley_w_pump connection.jpg

    To get to that location, he is going to hack up the power steering/alternator bracket.

    alternator bracket.jpg

    Where and why are the best places to mount oil pressure and temperature sensors?

    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  5. #605
    Moonlight Performance
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    That seems to be a hotly debated question here. Some of the ports don't provide good flow across the sensor. I put my aftermarket pressure sensor in the factory spot and put my temp sensor where you are mounting your accusump.

  6. #606
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hindsight View Post
    That seems to be a hotly debated question here. Some of the ports don't provide good flow across the sensor. I put my aftermarket pressure sensor in the factory spot and put my temp sensor where you are mounting your accusump.
    Thanks Hindsight
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  7. #607
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Accusump Test Fit

    Test fit my Accusump tonight.
    I'm starting off with manual valve (left)which I will just leave open for now.
    The pressure gauge (right) will get relocated to the dash.
    Mechie3 AWIC bracket will get a 1" spacer where it mounts to the intercooler.

    On a side note.
    I stopped buy the Ohio State trouper inspection station and had a long talk with the inspecting officer.
    I am scheduled for September 11 unless something opens up on his schedule.
    Bob

    EDIT: I ended up switching to a 2 qt accusump.

    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 08-24-2015 at 11:47 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  8. #608
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    That is a lot of stuff in one engine bay, but it looks great.

    Although the OCD in me wants to paint your accusump to match the rest of the blue.
    Tamra
    Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
    First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
    First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
    First autocross 3/29/15
    1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!

  9. #609
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    Although the OCD in me wants to paint your accusump to match the rest of the blue.
    "BECAUSE RACECAR" beats OCD everyday.
    But paying attention to the details is what wins races.

    Bad lighting in the picture above. This is the real color of the Accusump.
    accusump_1.jpg
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 08-07-2015 at 11:24 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  10. #610
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    First Accusump test

    Today Michael and I finished our Accusump (3 quart) install.

    Milestone on the build: Track Day Ready

    About 2 years ago we lost a rod bearing at an autocross event.
    That led to our decision to add the Accusump.

    First Accusump test we set the pre-charge in the tank to 10 psi (air side)
    During start up this prevents any oil from going into the tank until the engine has 10 PSI.
    The 10psi is used to make sure all oil push out.

    Then started the cold engine. The idle was about 1500. The tank pressure rose to 85 psi.
    This matches the pressure regulator in the Subaru pump.

    Then we turned of the engine off to watch the pressure fall.
    About 5 seconds from 80 to 60 and then 10 seconds nore from 60 to 40. the down very slowly from there.

    This was a good sign, indicating that we had at least 15 second of good pressure (40 psi) on a cold engine.
    Now we need to repeat this test on a hot engine.

    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 08-08-2015 at 12:10 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  11. #611
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Had a little surprise today.
    Decided to change my oil pan to an STI type.
    I thought I had a virgin motor. 90k previous and 100 autocross runs by Michael and I.
    Found 4 spring keepers in the bottom of the oil pan.
    I figure that some non-professional mechanic has done something in this motor.
    What do you think the were doing to the engine?
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  12. #612
    Senior Member Quiny's Avatar
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    I would pull the valve covers, cams and buckets to make sure you don't have a single keeper holding in some of your valves. They do make a small bolt on valve spring compressor that works really well on those recessed valve springs. The other thought is someone lost them trying to reinstall and got new ones but I cant imagine doing valve guide seals with the engine in the car. Sometime ignorance is bliss, if you didn't decide to change the pan you wouldn't be worried about this right now.

  13. #613
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Test fit my Accusump tonight.
    I'm starting off with manual valve (left)which I will just leave open for now.
    The pressure gauge (right) will get relocated to the dash.
    Mechie3 AWIC bracket will get a 1" spacer where it mounts to the intercooler.

    On a side note.

    I stopped buy the Ohio State trouper inspection station and had a long talk with the inspecting officer.
    I am scheduled for September 11 unless something opens up on his schedule.
    Bob


    There is a lot of heat soak potential there guys, wrap those lines and the accupump etc. You prob figured this already, and I like the effort your putting forward. I wrapped everything and have been testing the awic under heavy boost and have not got past 117 no matter what I did. I have the awic lines on separate sides now, which is much more effective because the coolant line on the pass gets very hot and affects the awic lines. I wrapped them also to cut down on this and put inlet awic on separate sides. It was 85-90 ambient. Looking good guys
    818S frame #13 Jdm version 8 ej207

  14. #614
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiny View Post
    I would pull the valve covers, cams and buckets to make sure you don't have a single keeper holding in some of your valves. They do make a small bolt on valve spring compressor that works really well on those recessed valve springs. The other thought is someone lost them trying to reinstall and got new ones but I cant imagine doing valve guide seals with the engine in the car. Sometime ignorance is bliss, if you didn't decide to change the pan you wouldn't be worried about this right now.
    Thanks Quiny, I've never seen or heard of keepers falling out in all my years. Now you have me a little worried.
    Maybe they were doing valve guide seals and they fell into the oil return holes.

    Quote Originally Posted by metalmaker12 View Post
    There is a lot of heat soak potential there guys, wrap those lines and the accupump etc. You prob figured this already, and I like the effort your putting forward. I wrapped everything and have been testing the awic under heavy boost and have not got past 117 no matter what I did. I have the awic lines on separate sides now, which is much more effective because the coolant line on the pass gets very hot and affects the awic lines. I wrapped them also to cut down on this and put inlet awic on separate sides. It was 85-90 ambient. Looking good guys
    Hi Metal
    My plan to is to use my 2 12" fans to blow heat out of the engine bay. It worked great for autocrossing. I'll let you know soon how it work driving it hard on the road.
    Bob
    P1050313s.jpg
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 08-10-2015 at 08:45 PM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  15. #615
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    My plan to is to use my 2 12" fans to blow heat out of the engine bay. It work great for autocrossing. I'll let you know soon how it work driving it hard on the road.
    Bob
    P1050313s.jpg
    That should work well, constant flow out of the engine bay. I have something similar in mind, but for the top of the engine bay (or inside the humps, using Craig's louvers).
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  16. #616
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Had a little surprise today.
    Decided to change my oil pan to an STI type.
    I thought I had a virgin motor. 90k previous and 100 autocross runs by Michael and I.
    Found 4 spring keepers in the bottom of the oil pan.
    I figure that some non-professional mechanic has done something in this motor.
    What do you think the were doing to the engine?
    Bob
    Well things have changed on the mystery valve spring keepers in the oil pan.
    They are not keepers.
    P1050554s.jpg

    After closer inspection I realized the were not keepers.
    I ran them over to TIC to find out it was one turbo bearing.

    Tony said my turbo was probably toast.
    It is possible these are from a previous turbo.
    When I got home I check the shaft play on the hot side.. There was some play, but didn't feel bad to my inexperienced fingers.
    Has anybody seen this before?

    While I was there I picked up a killer bee oil pick up.
    P1050555s.jpg

    This is the bottom of my engine.
    P1050553s.jpg
    Do you see anything out of the ordinary for a 90k motor?
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  17. #617
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    I can confirm that is definitely one of the turbo journal bearings, but there are supposed to be 2 of them in the turbo. If you plan on keeping the stock turbo, I'd remove it from the car and take it apart, I've done it and it's not that bad. Otherwise you can keep running it until it fails and will likely not be repairable.

  18. #618
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    I hope you figure it out and that no internal damage has been done! Would hate to see another blown 818 engine
    Tamra
    Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
    First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
    First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
    First autocross 3/29/15
    1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!

  19. #619
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    One srep forwand, ten steps back

    One step forward, ten steps back, this has been one of those challenging weeks.

    First we decided to install an Accusump to prevent oil starvation in high G corners.
    We went with the 3 quart high pressure version of the Accusump.
    Bigger is always better, RIGHT? Subaru has high pressure oiling system, RIGHT?
    WRONG, The Subaru does not have that much extra room in the oil pan.
    At 85 PSI 3 qts in accusump and 5 qts in engine, all is good.
    At 35 PSI 2 qts in accusump and 6 qts in engine, oil is up to windage tray. Acceptable but not recommend.
    At 20 PSI 1 qts in accusump and 7 qts in engine, oil is into the block. Not acceptable.
    Smaller Accusump on order.

    Next
    Many recommendations to use a STI style and a Killer Bee pickup.
    So I tried that.
    Turns out the STI pan is more than a quart smaller than my 2004 forester XT pan. (also know as a 2.0 Liter pan)
    So I'm sticking with my original pan.
    Now my KB pick up doesn't fit in my pan. Back to my original pickup.

    parts.jpg

    NextFound some parts of a turbo bearing in the oil pan.
    Removed up pipe and the exhaust.
    Remove the turbo from the car. Its was very tight but is possible to get the turbo out with the shock tower support bar in place.
    The shaft definitely has more play than it did last year when we clocked the turbo.
    There was a twist / kink in the turbo oil feed line which we think cause our problem.
    Repair parts on order.

    Next
    While remove the turbo some nuts fell on the floor.
    We pick them up and were on short. Looked for at least a half hour.
    The only place it could be is in the header.
    6 bolts later the header was off and it had a rattle, WOO HOO

    Bob

    Side note may interest some. The full mark on the STI pan dip stick is an inch higher than the 2.0 liter pan.
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 08-12-2015 at 09:29 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  20. #620
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    whoo hoo that sounds like good news for the most part!

    There are many reasons to use the STI pan and Killer B pickup, despite the fact that it is smaller. I would still recommend you use them.
    Tamra
    Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
    First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
    First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
    First autocross 3/29/15
    1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!

  21. #621
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    whoo hoo that sounds like good news for the most part!

    There are many reasons to use the STI pan and Killer B pickup, despite the fact that it is smaller. I would still recommend you use them.
    Thanks Tamra,
    The full mark in the STI pan is about an inch from the top.
    The full mark in the 2.0L pan is about 2 inch from the top.

    The main advantage I see to the STI pan is the narrow bottom. This is a big advantage if there is only a 1 quart left in the pan.
    With the 2.0L pan I can run an extra quart of oil. I that equates it to the STI pan as in the same situation I would have 2 quarts left in the 2.0L pan.
    The larger pan is more compatible with Accusump.

    I have a day or two before the pan goes back on. If I get a good reason for switching, I will.

    With either selection, I will be adding an level switch / temperature sensor about 2" above the pickup.

    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  22. #622
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    The main reason for switching would be the pickup. The OEM pickup is known for cracking, resulting in complete oil pressure loss and engine explosion. The Killer B pickup is the best replacement. The STI plan helps prevent sloshing side to side as well but like you said, just increasing the volume in your other pan would help. I guess the other option would be something like a Killer B or Moroso pan, but I think I ready on the forum somewhere that they hang below the 818 frame (and are $$).

    I haven't researched accusumps enough to know how they play into things. Have you contacted the company and asked what they recommend?
    Tamra
    Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
    First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
    First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
    First autocross 3/29/15
    1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!

  23. #623
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    The main reason for switching would be the pickup. The OEM pickup is known for cracking, resulting in complete oil pressure loss and engine explosion. The Killer B pickup is the best replacement. The STI plan helps prevent sloshing side to side as well but like you said, just increasing the volume in your other pan would help. I guess the other option would be something like a Killer B or Moroso pan, but I think I ready on the forum somewhere that they hang below the 818 frame (and are $$).

    I haven't researched accusumps enough to know how they play into things. Have you contacted the company and asked what they recommend?
    Yes, I had a long conversation with Bob at Canton Racing. He is very knowledgeable and the Acusump expert.
    I have the 22" tank (3qrt HP).
    He recommended the 12 or 16" tank for my size engine.
    He also recommended a pressure switch of 37psi opens the dump valve if pressure drops below this point.
    The valve will let the tank fill anytime.
    He also recommended a switch to turn off the Accusump during non spirited driving.

    I agree with everything he is saying, but I want better. So still working on my oiling strategy.
    Bob

    PS: I might mod my 2.0 pan so the KB pickup will fit.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

  24. #624
    Senior Member matteo92065's Avatar
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    This oil pan/Accusump discussion is great. It's one of the next steps for me. Please continue with the details.
    I have the 16" tank, 2 quart, ready to install. I have just read the last 5-6 posts here and watched a video about the Accusump... What about the precharging pressure of the accusump? According to the video, you can put a higher air pressure into your 3 quart tank and it would accept less oil, but with more pressure (a good thing). I would think that this would be a good way of controlling how much oil is stored.
    Where are you going to pick up your oil for the accusump? Do you have a reason for choosing one location over the others?

    Why not have a valve that is always open as long as the key is on? Wouldn't pre-oiling the engine on start up be good?
    Why the 37psi switch? W/O the pressure switch, if it gets to 38, the accusump will be feeding. If it goes to 36 the accusump will be feeding. If accusump runs out before the high g-turn ends, then you probably need a dry sump.
    And why turn the accusump off? When the car is being driven non-spirited oil will move around in the system and keep it all the same temperature, age, and condition.

    If you don't want to type all these answers out, I understand. I'm just thinking about all this stuff.

  25. #625
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matteo92065 View Post
    This oil pan/Accusump discussion is great. It's one of the next steps for me. Please continue with the details.
    I have the 16" tank, 2 quart, ready to install. I have just read the last 5-6 posts here and watched a video about the Accusump... What about the precharging pressure of the accusump? According to the video, you can put a higher air pressure into your 3 quart tank and it would accept less oil, but with more pressure (a good thing). I would think that this would be a good way of controlling how much oil is stored.
    Where are you going to pick up your oil for the accusump? Do you have a reason for choosing one location over the others?

    Why not have a valve that is always open as long as the key is on? Wouldn't pre-oiling the engine on start up be good?
    Why the 37psi switch? W/O the pressure switch, if it gets to 38, the accusump will be feeding. If it goes to 36 the accusump will be feeding. If accusump runs out before the high g-turn ends, then you probably need a dry sump.
    And why turn the accusump off? When the car is being driven non-spirited oil will move around in the system and keep it all the same temperature, age, and condition.

    If you don't want to type all these answers out, I understand. I'm just thinking about all this stuff.
    He recommended 10psi pre-charge. Which means the accusunp will not accept oil until the engine is greater than 10 psi.
    If you set the precharge at 40psi and you were cruising at 30psi, there would be no oil in the tank to protect you.

    I connected it to the oil galley plug of the front of the engine hidden behind the alternator bracket. It is close to the output of the pump.

    There is a plethora of strategies with pro and cons for each. You have to decide which is best for you.

    Right now I'm leaning toward a manual ball valve only with it always turned on.
    Con, no pre-oiling
    Pro, No forgetting to turn it on or off
    Con, will over fill the pan at hot idling.
    Pro, will protect bearings at any speed and pressure for about 5 seconds if no oil is coming from the pump.
    Pro, Lowest cost most reliable system. Canton's electric valves are $200.

    A second strategy I am considering is an oil level switch in the pan with an electric valve.


    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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  26. #626
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    The main reason for switching would be the pickup. The OEM pickup is known for cracking, resulting in complete oil pressure loss and engine explosion. The Killer B pickup is the best replacement. The STI plan helps prevent sloshing side to side as well but like you said, just increasing the volume in your other pan would help. I guess the other option would be something like a Killer B or Moroso pan, but I think I ready on the forum somewhere that they hang below the 818 frame (and are $$).

    I haven't researched accusumps enough to know how they play into things. Have you contacted the company and asked what they recommend?
    Hey Tamra,
    My killer b pickup won't fit in my 2.0L pan without a lot of cutting.
    My STI pan does hold enough oil.
    I decided to go the whole killer b route. Pan, pick up, and tray.
    Thanks for your recommendation.
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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  27. #627
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Is doctor turbo in the house?

    Is doctor turbo in the house.

    A few days ago we found a broken turbo bearing in our oil pan.
    P1050554s.jpg

    My son Michael decided to tackle the turbo.
    As he took the turbo apart, I had him lay out the parts as they came out.



    To our surprise and relief, the turbo still had both of it's bearing.
    They must of had a previous failure in this engine.
    Michael (Dr. TURBO) wants to replace it with a DOM 1.5? I told him to just rebuild it and put it back into the car.
    Bob
    Attached Images Attached Images
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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  28. #628
    Sgt.Gator's Avatar
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    I know a guy who as a sideline rebuilds Subaru Turbos, and does a a GREAT job. He upgrades the oem turbo to better than oem. If you want to contact him I will PM you his info. He has rebuilt two for me.
    Example:

    "I have 2 styles that I am building currently-the OE style replacement that has all upgraded and modified internals as listed below and I also do a Custom that includes all of the same upgraded and modified internals plus all of the additional things listed below.

    Both the Custom and the OE style have upgraded and modified journal bearings that virtually eliminate the IHI oiling issues, upgraded and modified thrust plates, upgraded piston rings, assembled with teflon impregnated synthetic grease to insure that there is no dry startup, and complete turbine/shaft/compressor wheel assembly dual plane dynamic balancing. I have a graphite material that I put on the cast iron parts (exhaust housing and center bearing support housing) to help keep rust at bay.

    The stock OE style uses a stock turbine/shaft assembly and a cast aluminum stock style compressor wheel and it's inspected carefully to make sure it's perfect or I use new if necessary. I make sure that the OE style is back to OE specs on both the compressor and exhaust turbine ends and ready to go.

    The Custom also includes a new inconel turbine/shaft assembly and an aggressive extended tip custom billet compressor wheel that weighs about half of the stock cast wheel and is capable of 20+ psi. The entire assembly is then dual plane balanced to .00005 grams to make sure that there is no chance of shake. I do internal polished compressor backing plate and also internally polished compressor housing. I paint the compressor housing and also coolant pipes and drain pipe with heat resistant paint to help stave off corrosion and help it look nicer longer. I use a graphite coating on the CHRA housing and the exhaust housing to help with future rusting issues. "

    Many folks on the LGT Forum have bought his rebuilt turbos, no complaints that I've seen yet.

    My Rebuilt VF46:

    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
    Owner: Colonel Red Racing
    eBAy Store: http://stores.ebay.com/colonelredracing
    818R ICSCC SPM
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  29. #629
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.Gator View Post
    I know a guy who as a sideline rebuilds Subaru Turbos, and does a a GREAT job. He upgrades the oem turbo to better than oem. If you want to contact him I will PM you his info. He has rebuilt two for me.
    Example:

    "I have 2 styles that I am building currently-the OE style replacement that has all upgraded and modified internals as listed below and I also do a Custom that includes all of the same upgraded and modified internals plus all of the additional things listed below.

    Both the Custom and the OE style have upgraded and modified journal bearings that virtually eliminate the IHI oiling issues, upgraded and modified thrust plates, upgraded piston rings, assembled with teflon impregnated synthetic grease to insure that there is no dry startup, and complete turbine/shaft/compressor wheel assembly dual plane dynamic balancing. I have a graphite material that I put on the cast iron parts (exhaust housing and center bearing support housing) to help keep rust at bay.

    The stock OE style uses a stock turbine/shaft assembly and a cast aluminum stock style compressor wheel and it's inspected carefully to make sure it's perfect or I use new if necessary. I make sure that the OE style is back to OE specs on both the compressor and exhaust turbine ends and ready to go.

    The Custom also includes a new inconel turbine/shaft assembly and an aggressive extended tip custom billet compressor wheel that weighs about half of the stock cast wheel and is capable of 20+ psi. The entire assembly is then dual plane balanced to .00005 grams to make sure that there is no chance of shake. I do internal polished compressor backing plate and also internally polished compressor housing. I paint the compressor housing and also coolant pipes and drain pipe with heat resistant paint to help stave off corrosion and help it look nicer longer. I use a graphite coating on the CHRA housing and the exhaust housing to help with future rusting issues. "

    Many folks on the LGT Forum have bought his rebuilt turbos, no complaints that I've seen yet.

    My Rebuilt VF46:

    Thanks Gator,
    My son Michael knew nothing about cars 2 years ago.
    I knew nothing about Subaru's or turbo's 2 year ago.
    Both of us learn by doing, so we will rebuild our turbo this time. Mike thinks he will out grow the 230 HP in this car by next summer. We will look you up then for a rebuilt turbo.

    On another note, Mike wants to come up your way and do a rally school before heading off to college in the fall of 2016.
    Bpb
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
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  30. #630
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Thanks Gator,
    My son Michael knew nothing about cars 2 years ago.
    I knew nothing about Subaru's or turbo's 2 year ago.
    Both of us learn by doing, so we will rebuild our turbo this time. Mike thinks he will out grow the 230 HP in this car by next summer. We will look you up then for a rebuilt turbo.

    On another note, Mike wants to come up your way and do a rally school before heading off to college in the fall of 2016.
    Bpb
    Maybe we can meet up next summer and you guys can see what 350-400whp feels like while autocrossing an 818 You might change your mind!!

    2 years ago I had never even done an oil change. Does that count? ;p
    Tamra
    Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
    First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
    First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
    First autocross 3/29/15
    1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!

  31. #631
    Senior Member STiPWRD's Avatar
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    Bob, before you rebuild the turbo, consider buying a rebuild kit. They are fairly cheap (~$40) on ebay and come with new bearings and seals. Also, I hope you paid attention to the clocking of the compressor wheel relative to the turbine shaft when you took it apart. The whole rotating assembly is usually balanced together. Tim Scott's Turbos in Falls Church VA rebalanced my turbo after I replaced the bearings - I'd highly recommend him as well.

  32. #632
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    hey gator i have stock turbo that needs seals how much does he charge thanks brian

  33. #633
    Sgt.Gator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian b 36 View Post
    hey gator i have stock turbo that needs seals how much does he charge thanks brian
    I sent you a PM.
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
    Owner: Colonel Red Racing
    eBAy Store: http://stores.ebay.com/colonelredracing
    818R ICSCC SPM
    2005 Subaru STI Race Car ICSCC ST and SPM
    Palatov DP4 - ICSCC Sports Racer

  34. #634
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Oil pan dilemma

    Oil pan dilemma continues.

    Today my wife and I took Michael to a college visit at Kettering University in Flint Michigan. (top of Mike's list)

    On the way home we stopped to see dougkirkbride's build. It looks great, he has made most of the donor parts look like new. Any cut or trim he did with precision. Doug is much better paying attention to details thin we are.

    Doug had a Killer B oil pan installed.
    Using a straight edge the pan was 1/4" bellow the cockpit.
    Using a straight edge from the bar in front of the engine to the bar with the engine mounts the killer b pan is 1" below.

    I will not use this pan without some kind if skid plat to protect it.
    So tomorrow Michael and I will measure the clearance on the STI pan and 2.0L pan to decide which one we will use.
    Bob
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 08-15-2015 at 04:35 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
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  35. #635
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Pretty sure our STI pan is above the frame panels or about flush, but I'll double check tomorrow (unless you beat me to it). I remember we were pretty excited when our headers and pan fit well. I wouldn't want the oil pan to be the first point of contact over a speed bump or a rock...
    Tamra
    Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
    First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
    First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
    First autocross 3/29/15
    1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!

  36. #636
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_n_Cincy View Post
    Oil pan dilemma continues.

    Today my wife and I took Michael to a college visit at Kettering University in Flint Michigan. (top of Mike's list)

    On the way home we stopped to see dougkirkbride's build. It looks great, he has made most of the donor parts look like new. Any cut or trim he did with precision. Doug is much better paying attention to details thin we are.

    Doug had a Killer B oil pan installed.
    Using a straight edge the pan was 1/4" bellow the cockpit.
    Using a straight edge from the bar in front of the engine to the bar with the engine mounts the killer b pan is 1" below.

    I will not use this pan without some kind if skid plat to protect it.
    So tomorrow Michael and I will measure the clearance on the STI pan and 2.0L pan to decide which one we will use.
    Bob
    If you recall, I had the whole killer b setup before the dry sump. There was no way I would race with the killer b pan. Hoping curbs would of sucked. It sat way too low, especially on a R height car.
    Thanks- Chad
    818R-SOLD!!!- Go Karted 7/20/14/ Officially raced NASA ST2- 2/28/15
    2016 Elan NP01 Prototype Racecar Chassis #20
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  37. #637
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Plavan View Post
    If you recall, I had the whole killer b setup before the dry sump. There was no way I would race with the killer b pan. Hoping curbs would of sucked. It sat way too low, especially on a R height car.
    Chad,
    I totally agree. Running a 4" the car would drop to 3.5 with Michael and I in the car. We have scraped the bottom of the car a dozen times. Mostly getting it on and off trailers.

    The 6 quart 2.0L pan is about 1/4" shorter than the 5 quart STI pan which is shorter than the KB pan.
    Even though the STI pan works with EL headers and has a better funnel shape to the pick-up. I think the 6 quarts trumps the 5 quart STI pan. I also need the 6 quart pan for my accusump.

    This will be my oil split. (now using a 2 QT 12" accusump)
    At hot idle 20 PSI, 6.0 QT in the pan and 0.5 Qt. in the accusump
    At mid range 40-50 PSI, 5.5 QT in the pan and 1.0 Qt. in the accusump.
    At high range 85 PSI, 5.0 QT in the pan and 1.5 Qt. in the accusump.
    I could not do this with limited free space in the STI pan.

    So the 2.0L pan is my plan for now. I the future I may (design, build, race) a custom pan.
    Bob

    Status update: Michael rebuilt the turbo and it is back in the car. Oil pan is re-installed. My heat wrap job on my exhaust got soaked with oil during pan removal. Going to remove the wrap, then wash, and reinstall. So we should be back running Sunday.
    Last edited by Bob_n_Cincy; 08-16-2015 at 12:37 AM.
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
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  38. #638
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    By running your 6qt 2.0 pan at 5 qts, are you not worried about your pickup sucking up air and oil starving the engine during high G corners? I would think running the STI pan a little overfull at idle would be better than running the 2.0 pan low when high revving and cornering. The little bit of reading I've done on the accusump makes it sound normal for the pan to be overfilled at idle - is it not?

    I haven't done a ton of research yet, but we are considering getting one as well.
    Tamra
    Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
    First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
    First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
    First autocross 3/29/15
    1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!

  39. #639
    Senior Member Tamra's Avatar
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    Also, if you really want to use your 2.0 pan, it looks like Killer B sells a pickup for it: http://www.killerbmotorsport.net/oil...m-oil-pan.html
    Tamra
    Building 818SR #297 picked up 10/25/14 with Andrew (xxguitarist)
    First start 12/21/14, First "drive" 1/17/15
    First Dyno at EFI Logics 3/7/15- 310whp at 15psi for break in, full spool by ~3500rpm!
    First autocross 3/29/15
    1st Registered 818 in Connecticut 7/24/2015. 9 months - 1 day from kit pickup!

  40. #640
    Senior Member Bob_n_Cincy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    By running your 6qt 2.0 pan at 5 qts, are you not worried about your pickup sucking up air and oil starving the engine during high G corners? I would think running the STI pan a little overfull at idle would be better than running the 2.0 pan low when high revving and cornering. The little bit of reading I've done on the accusump makes it sound normal for the pan to be overfilled at idle - is it not?

    I haven't done a ton of research yet, but we are considering getting one as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tamra View Post
    Also, if you really want to use your 2.0 pan, it looks like Killer B sells a pickup for it: http://www.killerbmotorsport.net/oil...m-oil-pan.html
    Hi Tamra,
    The 2.0L pan holds 6qts, but the designed level is 5 qts with 1.5" of free space in the top.
    The STI pan holds 5qts, with the designed level is 5 qts with 0.5" of free space in the top.

    I will not be running the 2.0 pan low at any time. At idle the pan will be filled to 1/2" below the block. At max pressure the pan will be filled to 1.5" below the block. Witch is the design level for that pan. At steady state 2G's the pick up is covered. With the sloshing taking place, the accusmp will fill the intermittent times when the pick up is uncovered.

    If 4 quarts gets stuck in the outside head and only 1 quart in the pan, then I will suck air. But then the accusump will shove another 1.5 quarts into the oil galley and give me another 5-10 seconds of runtime.

    I would not run the STI pan over full. One extra quart and the oil would be 1/2" into the block. Add 1.5 quarts (total of 6.5) the oil would be into the crank.

    That is why I feel that the STI pan is not compatible with the Accusump.
    Bob
    818S #22 Candy Blue Frame, Front Gas Tank, 2.5L Turbo, Rear radiator, Shortened Transmission, Wookiee Compatible, Console mounted MR2 Shifter, Custom ECU panel, AWIC soon
    My Son Michael's Turbo ICE Build X22 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...rts-818S-Build
    My Electric Supercar Build X21 (on hold until winter) http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...e-Build-Thread

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