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Thread: Gen 3 FFR#48 Type 65 Coupe R Build

  1. #1
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Gen 3 FFR#48 Type 65 Coupe R Build

    Gen 3 Type 65 Coupe R Kit ordered, now its time to get to the details.

    I have been racing the old FFR#48 Challenge Car for the past 11 years, and decided its time to switch it up and try my hand at racing a Type 65 Coupe. The aero advantages and frame stiffness the Type 65 Coupe offers sold me on the switch-o-rooney. So, I sold FFR#48 Challenge Car as a rolling chassis, kept all of the important stuff like engine, dry sump, trans, ecu, data logger, wing, and fuel cell which will go into the new build.

    Mark Dougherty, Brendan Dougherty and I are building up the Gen3 Type 65 Coupe R starting in December near Hershey, PA, and will be race ready for the start of the 2017 NASA North East racing season (March/April timeframe.) We will also compete at the Grassroots Magazine’s Ultimate Track Car Challenge @ Virginia International Raceway May 2017.

    The car will be classed in NASA ST2, Hoosier A7 DOT tires, and will have aero, front splitter, and rear wing.

    Stay tuned for a ton of build pictures, and updates! Cant wait to get started! so excited! cant you tell!

    Grassroots Motorsports Forum Build and Project Cars page

    NASA ST2 (8.00:1 weight/power) rules calculations based on ST2 rules: https://nasaproracing.com/rules/Supe...ited_Rules.pdf

    Adds/Deductions with Aero and 245 tires (front splitter, rear wing, diffuser, flat bottom):
    Min weight of 2800lb = -.1
    Use of 245 DOT tires = +.7
    Non-Production vehicle = -.4
    Total=+.2
    Adjusted Wt/HP ratio formula is (8.00 - .2) = 7.8, to get MAX RWHP for NASA ST2, take weight divided by calculated Adjusted Wt/HP ratio. 2800lb/7.8 = 359RWHP

    -------------------------------

    Adds/Deductions with Aero and 275 tires (front splitter, rear wing, diffuser, flat bottom):
    Min weight of 2800lb = -.1
    Use of 275 DOT tires = +.3
    Non-Production vehicle = -.4
    Total=-.2
    Adjusted Wt/HP ratio formula is (8.00 - (-.2)) = 8.2, to get MAX RWHP for NASA ST2, take weight divided by calculated Adjusted Wt/HP ratio. 2800lb/8.2 = 341RWHP

    -------------------------------

    Adds/Deductions with Aero and bigger then 275 tires (315 front/335 rear) (front splitter, rear wing, diffuser, flat bottom):
    Min weight of 2800lb = -.1
    Non-Production vehicle = -.4
    Total=-.5
    Adjusted Wt/HP ratio formula is (8.00 - (-.5)) = 8.5, to get MAX RWHP for NASA ST2, take weight divided by calculated Adjusted Wt/HP ratio. 2800lb/8.5 = 329RWHP

    -------------------------------
    If you do want to run NASA ST1 (6.00:1 weight/power) here is the math:

    Adds/Deductions with Aero (front splitter, rear wing, diffuser, flat bottom) and Michelin Slicks (30/65-18 front, 31/71-18 rear, 18"x12" wheels):
    Min weight of 2800lb = -.1
    Use of Racing Slicks = -.5
    Non-Production vehicle = -.4
    Total=-1.0
    Adjusted Wt/HP ratio formula is (6.00 - (-1.0)) = 7.0, to get MAX RWHP for NASA ST1, take weight divided by calculated Adjusted Wt/HP ratio. 2800lb/7.0 = 400RWHP
    Last edited by johngeorge; 04-14-2017 at 10:26 AM.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  2. #2
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Parts List

    Parts list can also be found here: http://www.johngeorgeracing.com/word.../part-numbers/


    FFR#48 Gen3 Type 65 Coupe R


    Last edited by johngeorge; 05-01-2017 at 06:57 AM.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  3. #3
    Administrator 65 Cobra Dude's Avatar
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    Looking forward to watching your build John and your racing in it next year!

    Henry

  4. #4
    Senior Member Carlos C's Avatar
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    I echo Henry's enthusiasm.

    Carlos
    FFR Coupe #0635; Ford 347ci, Tremec TKO500, 8.8 rear end w/ 3.27:1 gears, Cobra/SVO brakes

  5. #5
    Mark Dougherty's Avatar
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    I cant wait to get started on this build
    it will be a blast.
    We have already prepped the parts and now just waiting for the kit.
    The traveling Builder
    717-773-5624

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    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    This is going to be my new favorite thread. Subscribing.


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  7. #7

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    I'm also looking forward to this; welcome to coupe building John!

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    Subbed!

  9. #9
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    I'm in. Three Gen 3 Coupes being built at the same time. Wow!

  10. #10
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    Looking forward to seeing how this performs compared to the roadster.

  11. #11
    Senior Member KDubU's Avatar
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    This should be a very cool build.
    Kyle

    Complete Kit pickup 09/05/2015, 351w, QF680, 3.55, 3-Link, 15" Halibrands with MT's, Painted Viking blue with Wimbledon white stripes on 03/15/2017. Sold in 08/2018 and totally regret it.

  12. #12
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    Oh Man!! I Love this! I'm fascinated with this Gen3 model. I may need to drop in to the Hershey area soon. I will be following this build

    I'm also going to be using your shopping list for some items. thanks for posting it.
    Last edited by DadofThree; 11-17-2016 at 04:00 PM.
    Dave
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  13. #13

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    This thread is going to be lots of fun to follow! Good luck on the build, John & Mark!

    Garry
    I sure miss my coupe!

    F5R1004503SP 2004 Challenge Car, 331 Stroker

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  14. #14
    Senior Member mjazzka's Avatar
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    Detailed plan and an aggressive timeline, I like it. This will be a good one, can't wait!
    Michael
    Coupe #675 "Eloise"


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  15. #15
    Sgt.Gator's Avatar
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    Subscribed. I'm looking forward to the details on the R frame.

    A couple of comments/questions:

    Fuel Tank/Cell? Size? Fuel Pump(s)? Swirl Pot?

    Single seater or two seats? I'm not sure how a second seat will work with the R frame mods.

    Do you really need power steering in this race car?

    This will be a great build to watch!
    "Good Judgement comes from Experience. Experience comes from Bad Judgement"
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  16. #16
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt.Gator View Post
    Subscribed. I'm looking forward to the details on the R frame.

    A couple of comments/questions:

    Fuel Tank/Cell? Size? Fuel Pump(s)? Swirl Pot?

    Single seater or two seats? I'm not sure how a second seat will work with the R frame mods.

    Do you really need power steering in this race car?

    This will be a great build to watch!
    I am reusing the Fuel cell from my old challenge car, its a 22gal FuelSafe 34" x 18" x 9.5". Id like to put in a 32Gal cell but that will go in after 2019, when my current fuel cell bladder is set to expire. As for swirl pot, we figured out that if we run 2 sump boxes with 2 in-tank fuel pumps in each rear corner of the cell, T them together then out to the car there is no need for external swirl pot.

    It will definitely have 2 seats, R frame mods have no affect on passenger seat area! it is fully available.

    Yes YES YES to power steering in a race car. The speeds we are traveling requires the ability to make quick corrections to catch the car super fast, without power steering its almost impossible to do at the limit. I have race against non-power steering Challenge cars and its a clear advantage to have power steering, top drivers going at it, and power steering always wins.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  17. #17
    Senior Member R Thomas's Avatar
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    Do you anticipate any chassis mods or specific parts to satisfy NASA or other Racing requirements?
    Daily Driver 2011 Ford Mustang Convertible
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  18. #18
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R Thomas View Post
    Do you anticipate any chassis mods or specific parts to satisfy NASA or other Racing requirements?
    The FFR type65 R chassis will have the necessary frame modifications needed to be NASA/SCCA legal.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  19. #19
    Super Moderator vnmsss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johngeorge View Post
    The FFR type65 R chassis will have the necessary frame modifications needed to be NASA/SCCA legal.
    So glad you are joining the Coupe world, John! My Gen 3-R Coupe is on order as well, and looking forward to not only following your build, but running on track with you in the future! Karen
    #28 FFR Challenge Series
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    Drive it.....Like you stole it!

  20. #20
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Is the "R" chassis something that is a "hidden menu item" since I don't see it on the FFR website? Is there an extra cost?

  21. #21
    Super Moderator vnmsss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by q4stix View Post
    Is the "R" chassis something that is a "hidden menu item" since I don't see it on the FFR website? Is there an extra cost?
    Factory Five will be offering the Gen3 Coupe in a "R" configuration, much as they did with the Challenge Series roadsters, where the car was designed and built to a Club Code and Compliance Regulation (CCR) standard. John will likely have more details on when the "R" option will be available on the order form, as his R chassis will be the first off the jig. Not sure of additional cost.
    #28 FFR Challenge Series
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    2011 Western Endurance Racing Championship
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    Drive it.....Like you stole it!

  22. #22
    Senior Member FFRSpec72's Avatar
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    Should be a fun build, looking to see how these perform ! I'm not looking forward to having Karen lap me in her new R coupe once built !
    Tony Nadalin
    2018 SOVREN Big Bore Champion
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  23. #23

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    My brother and I went to Panama City to see if his 6'4" body, with the 36" inseam legs and attached size 15 gun-boat feet fit in the New Type 65 Coupe.

    Guess What Gang:

    Bubba Fit, Even Though It Was A Tad Tight!

    I can't wait to see this model evolve since I'm hoping to build one in a few years after my wallet heals and my last child makes his way through college.

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
    Last edited by GoDadGo; 11-23-2016 at 08:28 PM.

  24. #24
    Ol Skool
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    Lurking

  25. #25
    Senior Member jkrueger's Avatar
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    Yeah, I'd be interested in what the R frame mods from FFR will be. It would be awesome if we could get the frame mods done by FFR directly.

    Looking forward to following your build.

    JC
    Factory Five Type-65 Coupe:"Race Spec" coupe, Ordered 1/12, picked-up 5/12, roller 5/12, first start 10/12, finished 4/13
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  26. #26
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Type65 coupe r frame being born!!!


    I had the opportunity to visit Factory Five Racing to see my Gen3 type65 Coupe R frame number 5 being born! I am scheduled to pick up the kit December 30, 2016.

    Here are pictures of the frame being removed from the frame jig, and put on the rotisserie for final welding. The R (race) frame starts off as a street frame, then the addition of extra roll bars to make the R frame even stiffer, and most importantly legal for NASA/SCCA/etc racing.


    Jon Dean welding part of the independent rear suspension, still in the frame jig




    We rolled out the frame jig/frame from FFR R&D, its time now to separate the frame from the jig.


    little persuasion is used to pop the frame out of the jig


    slowly hoisting it off the jig

    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  27. #27
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    the frame jig


    finally bolting new frame to the rotisserie so Jon can spin the frame upside down to finish weld all the tubes.




    Jim worked with FFR body shaper John C. to make a type65 coupe splitter for the R coupes. It looks awesome and cant wait to see it fully assembled to the bottom splitter (same bottom splitter as the 818R uses.) This will be sold by Factory Five Racing!


    Jim also designed and laser cut brackets to mount the giant Wilwood 6-piston calipers to the 2015 IRS spindle. Minor alteration of the stock spindle are required to make this setup work. Stay tuned for detailed instructions on how to make this work.
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  28. #28
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    The wide body Wilwood 6 piston caliper (the pads are .8 inches thick!) while using the Mustang 2011-2014 Mustang 336mm or 13.22″ Bendix PRT6035 rotor.

    Im getting really excited about the new type65 coupe R build, picking up the kit December 30, 2016 and driving it down to Mark&Brendan and will start working on it right away. New Years in PA
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  29. #29
    Senior Member John Dol's Avatar
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    Very cool John!!
    Those brakes look huge

    John
    Finished the "My Coupe, my way" project.

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  30. #30
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    Thanks John! That is a really beefed up frame. Looks like great work. Will be watching your build with great interest.
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  31. #31
    Senior Member q4stix's Avatar
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    Looking good!
    Are you or someone from Factory Five able to mark which frame modifications are being done to the R chassis? Since the frame is already different from the Gen 2, it's hard for me to tell

  32. #32
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by q4stix View Post
    Looking good!
    Are you or someone from Factory Five able to mark which frame modifications are being done to the R chassis? Since the frame is already different from the Gen 2, it's hard for me to tell
    The R mods are not done yet and therefore not in the pictures... stay tuned
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  33. #33
    Senior Member Carlos C's Avatar
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    I love that front bumper extension. It looks really good in my opinion, and I hope they do put it into production. I wonder with the slight differences on the nose between the revisions, if this bumper extension will fit the Gen 2, even if with some modifications.

    Carlos
    FFR Coupe #0635; Ford 347ci, Tremec TKO500, 8.8 rear end w/ 3.27:1 gears, Cobra/SVO brakes

  34. #34
    Administrator David Hodgkins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos C View Post
    I love that front bumper extension. It looks really good in my opinion, and I hope they do put it into production. I wonder with the slight differences on the nose between the revisions, if this bumper extension will fit the Gen 2, even if with some modifications.

    Carlos
    That's a MKII Coupe that it is mocked up against...


    FFR 5369 Pin Drive, IRS, Trigos, Torsen, Wilwoods, FMS BOSS 302 "B" cam , Mass-flo. CA SB100 (SPCN) Registered
    Delivered 4/23/06. "Finished" 4/2012 (still not done!)


  35. #35
    Senior Member Carlos C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Hodgkins View Post
    That's a MKII Coupe that it is mocked up against...

    Now that you mention it, I see that you're right. Well, I may be getting one for my Gen 2.

    Carlos
    FFR Coupe #0635; Ford 347ci, Tremec TKO500, 8.8 rear end w/ 3.27:1 gears, Cobra/SVO brakes

  36. #36

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    Thanks, John. The pictures are great!

    Garry
    I sure miss my coupe!

    F5R1004503SP 2004 Challenge Car, 331 Stroker

    Coupe # 031, 422" Windsor stroker by Southern Automotive (Dash autographed by Peter Brock)***SOLD***
    Unique 427 Roadster, 482" Aluminum FE by Southern Automotive***SOLD***

  37. #37
    Senior Member CraigS's Avatar
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    Look at that frame. Not a 4 inch tube anywhere! FFR has come a long way w/ their design capabilities. A friend is building a 33 hot rod and each time I see it, I am very impressed by that frame design compared to my roadster. Looks like the new coupe is similar technology.
    FFR MkII, 408W, Tremec TKO 500, 2015 IRS, DA QA1s, Forte front bar, APE hardtop.

  38. #38
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Jim @ FFR sent me these pics of the R frame mods. Notice the door bars (it jets inboard to let the door hinge work,) rear diagonal bar, front hoop 'gusset' bars, middle of rear top hoop to shock tower, and front bars in front of the passenger. The frame is getting finish welded today, and off to get powder coated



    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

  39. #39

    Steve >> aka: GoDadGo
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    T_H_I_S___C_H_A_S_S_I_S___L_O_O_K_S___ F_A_N_T_A_S_T_I_C_!

    You've got to be so pumped up and ready to put this thing together!

  40. #40
    Senior Member johngeorge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoDadGo View Post
    T_H_I_S___C_H_A_S_S_I_S___L_O_O_K_S___ F_A_N_T_A_S_T_I_C_!

    You've got to be so pumped up and ready to put this thing together!
    dude.. you dont even know! best XMAS ever
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Gen3 Type65 Coupe R, Street legal.***
    ***SOLD!!! - NASA ST2 FFR#48 Challenge Car rolling chassis, Street legal.***
    http://johngeorgeracing.com

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