Observations, data, discussions from the Open house

[cmcintyre]

Jim Schenck -

Windshield wipers in 3-6 months
Heater - a vintage (?) setup
Top Tier Automotive press was there to do an article
“Wookie” changes (fuel tank, pedal placement0 “under discussion”
Carbon headrest covers also under discussion as options

Jesper-
-Intercooler venting at outboard shoulders. Ducting will be provided.Works as well as the WRX due to lower pressure and greater flow below the cooler.

Observations
- Shift throw tight and short (1-2 is maybe 4”)
-6’ 1”, normal torso, my legs are bent but comfortable. GTM seats.
-Broomstick check for helmet is OK
-Front license plate was tried at left corner. Brake “vents” can be cut or not.
-Dimensions (tape measure on the floor, eyballed).
69” wide, fender flare to fender flare
154” long, including splitter
43” tall at windshield
-Looks like trunk could be fabricated (and insulated) for rear over tranny/exhaust.
-Two very different diffusers, pics to follow.
-Tire and wheel size on the S:
Front - 215/45 17
Rear - 255/35 18

Video of roll in and more detail pics to follow.

[wleehendrick]

Great, thanks for all the info! By carbon 'headrest covers' I assume you mean the speedhumps?

I'm blown away by the exterior, but have to admit a touch disappointed by the interior. The red SEMA car had door panels, etc... and I was expecting more polish, not less (i.e. exposed rivets). This is by no means a nitpick or dealbreaker for me, and I'm not expecting OEM level of interior fit-n-finish. I'm sure some to the cottage industry aftermarket will address this, and with some time and money builders can do whatever they want. It just means a little extra work to get the inside sorted the way I want it, but this can always be done after she's on the road. I can't wait til my October delivery date!

[RelfF2]

Thanks! 6'1'' with gtm seats passes the broomstick test!? This would be the best news of the day if true. Hoping there's a pic...

[flytosail]

Thanks for the update, especially about the front plate and trunk area.

[bnr32jason]

Great, thanks for all the info! By carbon 'headrest covers' I assume you mean the speedhumps?

I'm blown away by the exterior, but have to admit a touch disappointed by the interior. The red SEMA car had door panels, etc... and I was expecting more polish, not less (i.e. exposed rivets). This is by no means a nitpick or dealbreaker for me, and I'm not expecting OEM level of interior fit-n-finish. I'm sure some to the cottage industry aftermarket will address this, and with some time and money builders can do whatever they want. It just means a little extra work to get the inside sorted the way I want it, but this can always be done after she's on the road. I can't wait til my October delivery date!

Interior fit and finish is pretty important to me as well, especially if I'm going to make this a semi-daily driver. So I'm going to sacrifice a little weight (15-20lbs) with strategically placed sound deadening in the floor. Also I will be covering anything that's bare aluminum with either leather, vinyl, or alcantara depending on what kind of a look I decide to go for.

[bnr32jason]

43” tall at windshield

That's makes it 6" shorter than a new MX-5!

[IMPREZvWRX]

OK, so my car is 6" narrower, 10" taller, and nearly 1300 lbs heavier. This should be a pretty good upgrade!

Any mention of fuel capacity? It's a 110 mile round trip to my autox site, (plus whatever I use during the event) and it doesn't look like I'll have a place to put my fuel cans. I'm gonna need a support vehicle!

[RM1SepEx]

13 gallons +/-

[cmcintyre]

Re: The Interior, it was obvious that there was a major thrash to get the car ready. I don't doubt that interior details like carpet were on the nice to have list. Heck, one of the door handles came adrift as people piled in and out of the car.

[Mechie3]

So the carpet comes with the kit and it was on their "nice to have ready in time" list or carpet is just on the "nice to have in general" list? Some of the square edged aluminum bits do look a little homegrown.

I'm wondering how that downpipe exhaust exit (the tail end) fits with aftermarket pipes. I have a shorty downpipe, but it looks longer than the short section of the 06 pipe. I think it was designed to work with 02-05 mid pipes, so maybe they have different length tail ends?

04 downpipe


06 downpipe (and what was shown in a picture, note where it bolts apart)


My aftermarket shorty downpipe:

[joshuo]

I think the car looks fantastic and matured a lot from the prototypes!
Is anyone else bothered by the strip of aluminum that folds over the top of the door? I feel it breaks up the beltline of the car.
I hope there's a way to tuck that panel under the skin rather than over it..

[Mechie3]

Almost forgot: the front brake cutouts. Are these an option from FFR, a DIY cut with provided template and backing mesh/plate, or a do it on your own custom piece?

[RM1SepEx]

Yes, need to do something about that strip, will be burning your arms on a hot sunny day...

It's obvious that we can all do a ton to improve interior fit and finish... The cutout for more arm room in the door just doesn't look right, too many exposed rivets and sharp edges etc... I can play with my little 30 inch brake/shear and do something "cleaner" It could also be made much better if I used a bead machine to inset the edge so it sits in the door panel vs on top of it...

A simple upholstery job could cover a ton of stuff up as well...

[Canadian818]

I think the car looks fantastic and matured a lot from the prototypes!
Is anyone else bothered by the strip of aluminum that folds over the top of the door? I feel it breaks up the beltline of the car.
I hope there's a way to tuck that panel under the skin rather than over it..

I agree it doesn't look right. But once there's some roll up windows you could cover it with leather or fabric and it would be on the inside of the window.

[Samiam1017]

I agree it doesn't look right. But once there's some roll up windows you could cover it with leather or fabric and it would be on the inside of the window.

Any talk of when roll up windows will be available?

[wallace18]

Did anyone find out when or if Red or Blue will be offered. No offense to those who like white but, I would have to paint mine. White just does not do it for me.

[longislandwrx]

Things I Picked up talking to FFR et al:

The R will come with a seat/harness/adjustable shocks

The R will not come with a carbon dash... too difficult to produce

The assembly manual is half complete

the front brake ducts had grills and aluminum trim piece, so they are def part of the kit and will most likely come with a template.



I did not care for the gtm seats as all... they felt way too reclined for my tastes

[C.Plavan]

Things I Picked up talking to FFR et al:

The R will come with a seat/harness/adjustable shocks

The R will not come with a carbon dash... too difficult to produce

The assembly manual is half complete

the front brake ducts had grills and aluminum trim piece, so they are def part of the kit and will most likely come with a template.



I did not care for the gtm seats as all... they felt way too reclined for my tastes

I do not want a seat/harness. I have my OWN preferences on my comfort/safety- So I do not really see that happening.

[joshuo]

I did not care for the gtm seats as all... they felt way too reclined for my tastes

Form the pictures, I'm starting to get worried if anyone over 6'2" will pass the broomstick test with helmet on the 818S, even with the reclined GTM seats...
Did anyone sit in it with a helmet and try it?

[cmcintyre]

Not with a helmet, but at 6'1", I had 1 1/2 to 2 inches of clearance. Dave said seats can be installed lower, don't know by how much.

[Racebrewer]

6' 2" with long legs. I came really close to fitting with the GTM seat.

A flatter steering wheel and the Kirkey seats would add another couple inches. Shift lever needs to move forward a tad for me.

Much better than the Fiat X19 I tried years ago that had the shifter behind my elbow............

I believe that the thermoplastic body panels will be a long way down the road, but the fiberglass was gorgeous. No "seamed" panels that I could see so just paint if needed,

John

[tks]

13 gallons +/-

That's not bad. Any idea of 818's MPG would be. How long can you go on a long Sunday drive before needing to fill up?

[bnr32jason]

All depends on your tune and how you drive. I know WRX owners pushing 30mpg out even with light mods. I also know guys averaging half that. But our 818's are going to be in the neighborhood of 1300lbs (~40%) lighter. I think even on a mild performance tune you could still achieve 30mpg depending how you drive it and your gearing.

[wleehendrick]

Any idea of 818's MPG would be.

Highway mileage won't be that much better than the donor, since I wouldn't expect the rolling resistance and aero drag of the 818 to be significantly less than a WRX. The lighter weight, however, will make mean much better mileage in stop and go conditions, so I expect better than 30mpg is achievable in either case. If you're hard on the throttle and brakes with a modded motor in the twisties or track, however, I'm sure it'll drop well under 20mpg.

[timmy318]

That's not bad. Any idea of 818's MPG would be. How long can you go on a long Sunday drive before needing to fill up?

I'd say that you would average about 20-25 MPG on average (that accounts for mostly street driving, and a little bit of highway). Also, that's also excluding "playing" with the throttle (it's going to be so hard to do with that car). Depends on how much the tank holds and the actually fuel economy of the vehicle. If it holds 13 gallons and does 25 mpg you'll get around 325 miles outa your tank, on the other hand, if you're car averages 30 mpg then you're in for an extra 65 miles of fun per tank!

[Benji]

I'm surprised that the main observation is not the fact that it isn't 818Kg but 829Kg instead, even with GTM seats. Nit picking I know but it does kinda make the name wrong and there is a sense that we'd (or at least I'd) got the impression that 818Kg was going to happen, perhaps even with the stock Impreza seats.

Unless of course this was a 'wet' weight (it must be if it drove to the scales!)? Full/half tank?

[flytosail]

I'm surprised that the main observation is not the fact that it isn't 818Kg but 829Kg instead, even with GTM seats. Nit picking I know but it does kinda make the name wrong and there is a sense that we'd (or at least I'd) got the impression that 818Kg was going to happen, perhaps even with the stock Impreza seats.

Unless of course this was a 'wet' weight (it must be if it drove to the scales!)? Full/half tank?

Swap out the stock flywheel for a lightweight one and you are good to go. Light wheel rims will also take you down a few more pounds.

Sarcasm mode on.

So by your thought, every build would have a different number? Or maybe it could be on a LED counter on the tail of the car so as fuel is burned it would reflect the correct weight?

Sarcasm mode off.

They met their goal.

[Benji]

No, I understand that everyone else's will be different and thus the number would be 'wrong' but the whole point is, there should be a standard reference build which meets the criteria of the name in which case, no they didn't meet their goal in regards to *weight*.

Again, they could quite easily suggest that it DOES meet their goal on dry weights which I think is perfectly acceptable.

[timmy318]

I'm surprised that the main observation is not the fact that it isn't 818Kg but 829Kg instead, even with GTM seats. Nit picking I know but it does kinda make the name wrong and there is a sense that we'd (or at least I'd) got the impression that 818Kg was going to happen, perhaps even with the stock Impreza seats.

Unless of course this was a 'wet' weight (it must be if it drove to the scales!)? Full/half tank?

Let it go man. I wouldn't nit-pic at this car because IMHO and probably a whole lot of other people's FFR met and exceeded the expectations! If you need to get the name right, just do what flytosail said and attach a little LED counter on the tail of the car so as fuel is burned it would reflect the correct weight ! But seriously, just swap out some parts for some light weight ones and you'll be good-to-go.

[Turboguy]

I look at that the 818kg target weight was just one one element of the original design "concept", the others being: safety, an under-$10K kit price that can be built for a $15K total, and a world market-capable car.


Given how big a chunk these car crazy guys bit off, I'd say they hit this one out of the park. An absolutely incredible job all around!

[JAubin]

Just for reference, that's a 1.3% difference. That's probably smaller than the error present in the scale.

[Benji]

That and everyone keeps missing my point promoting the fact that its dry weight is probably even better than 818Kg, but I'll let everyone keep trying to find other ways of trying to skew it instead of agreeing with the obvious

[blueafro]

What are the final wet curb weights for the S and R models? The Road and Track image someone posted shows 2,012 lbs. (912.5 kg) for the R, and I wondered if that was accurate.

Sorry if this is covered elsewhere, I've been trying to catch up with the 818 news after several months' absence.

[metalmaker12]

818kg was a target that become a name because it is catchy. I could care if they are only 28 lbs over, which if your math was right is 830.7kg total (the 830.7 is not so catchy), but here is some more pics of production 818s suspension and bare frame, I got way more on my Cannon, but that will take a bit, plus I get my own kit soon so i might just wait to post more.

photo-22.JPGphoto-23.JPGphoto-24.JPGphoto-25.JPGphoto-27.JPGphoto-28.JPGphoto-29.JPGphoto-30.JPGphoto-31.JPGphoto-32.JPG

[spaceywilly]

The weight at open house was 1828lbs/829kg. 818kg is 1803 lbs. I don't see the big deal, 818 is a cool name and it was just a design target. Missing the weight slightly doesn't take anything away from the car. The 328i no longer has a 2.8L engine, but I don't see anyone complaining about that.

[metalmaker12]

I would say they hit the target, that is very hard to be 100% on with. Spacewilly I did not meet you or did I, well anyway, you building one.

[spaceywilly]

Eventually I will. I have a 2002 WRX and a BRZ now. Right now I need to keep the WRX going as my winter car. Hopefully in a few years I'll be able to replace the BRZ with something I can use year round and then I'll start working on the 818 fund

[Mechie3]

How heavy is the frame? When stewart delivers it, will I need a dolly to get it up my driveway, or will two average people be able to carry it?

[bnr32jason]

Wow, I can't believe someone is actually focusing on the weight THAT much, regardless if it's wet or dry, it doesn't matter.

818 is the name, and a conversation starter, that's it, nothing more nothing less. It would be VERY difficult to achieve exactly 818kg without making some weird compromises or running an exact amount of fuel. People doing NA builds will likely be well below 1800lbs and some might even get into the 16xx range.

Someone is gonna ask you "what's 818 mean?" Are you gonna say, "well, it was supposed to be the exact weight of the car in kilograms but Factory Five are a bunch of freaking liars, this car weighs 839.3 kilograms, I'm thinking about asking for my money back for false advertising."

Gimme a break. It's a KIT CAR, you will customize it to meetvyour own personal requirements/desires therefore everyone's is going to weigh a little different. I suppose they could have named it the "Factory Five 818 Give Or Take 100"

[Mechie3]

Well, it was 818kg 5 mins ago, but then I dropped a duece so now it's only 817.5 kg.