Aluminum Fuel Tank by Boyd Welding

[D Clary]

That would reduce the usable fuel to around 7 gallons.

[JeromeS13]

That would reduce the usable fuel to around 7 gallons.

Perhaps on track, yes. Around town, it's fine. I think I've had it all the way down to like 2 gallons or so? Even then, I didn't notice any sputtering with normal driving.

[07FIREBLADE]

Would love to have them just make a full size tank instead of having to move the firewall back.

[Ethan818]

Would love to have them just make a full size tank instead of having to move the firewall back.

I am also interested in this. Will take some measurements tonight and see how much more a larger tank would be for those of us that don't need the extra inches of leg room.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I am also interested in this. Will take some measurements tonight and see how much more a larger tank would be for those of us that don't need the extra inches of leg room.

Boyd will make any custom tank you want.
My 13 gallon tank is stuffed with foam to the top. I have had it down to 2 gallons and have had no starvation on an autocross course.

[philly15]

i have a question for those running the boyd tank, on the website, it says not intended for racing use, additional baffling maybe be required. Has anyone had any issues with their tank in a racing environment? also has anyone looked into the installation of baffling? does boyd offer it? i want to switch away from the factory five one, i hate not knowing how much fuel i actually have :/

[Pearldrummer7]

i have a question for those running the boyd tank, on the website, it says not intended for racing use, additional baffling maybe be required. Has anyone had any issues with their tank in a racing environment? also has anyone looked into the installation of baffling? does boyd offer it? i want to switch away from the factory five one, i hate not knowing how much fuel i actually have :/

I agree with this sentiment^ I also am looking to switch from the hotrod tank I got from FFR. Anyone have experience on track with this tank?

[FFRSpec72]

Need a collector box for the pump(s) that will hold enough fuel for 5 or so seconds with check valves to not let fuel out

[Loring]

Need a collector box for the pump(s) that will hold enough fuel for 5 or so seconds with check valves to not let fuel out

I just drew up something roughly that will work, and be adaptable to just about any fuel tank. Once I get my 818 (should be here Monday at the latest), I'll get some final measurements and get a prototype going.

Do we have anyone on the board that does injection molding?

[FFRSpec72]

I just drew up something roughly that will work, and be adaptable to just about any fuel tank. Once I get my 818 (should be here Monday at the latest), I'll get some final measurements and get a prototype going.

Do we have anyone on the board that does injection molding?

There are a number of these out there for around $200 http://www.polyperformance.com/Fuel-...Tank-Collector

[Loring]

There are a number of these out there for around $200 http://www.polyperformance.com/Fuel-...Tank-Collector

Thanks for posting that. My design is slightly smaller than the ID of the fuel pump opening, so you should be able to drop it in.

As far as a check valve goes, use a flapper for lower profile. You should be able to get fill at less than 1/4". You can add a jet pickup directly below the pump opening for extra fill action if needed. For pumps with a level sender, its easy to make provisions for it externally.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Need a collector box for the pump(s) that will hold enough fuel for 5 or so seconds with check valves to not let fuel out

Hi Tony
Don (DMC7492) built a surge tank using the jet pump.
wrx 08+ uses this assembly:

DSC_4302.jpg

I believe it does the surge tank feature.
Bob

[JeromeS13]

Just fill it up after each session, you'll be fine.

[Aero STI]

After 500 miles of use, 400 miles on E85 my Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump that came with the boyd tank has failed. If you have any intention of running E85 I would strongly advise against running the aeromotive pump that comes with the tank.

Reading the FAQ for the pump they say it's not designed for e85, but Walbro says the same thing about their tried and true 255 pump and everyone has years of success on high ethanol fuel. I even followed the filtering instructions and haven't reached 10 hours of run time. I'm switching to a Walbro 450.

9.) Q: Can the 340 Stealth Pump be used safely in e85 and how much HP will it support?

A: E85 fuel has become a viable option for street performance enthusiasts in recent years. It has some very significant pros, and equally significant cons, to consider. It does provide higher octane, and lower charge air temperatures, and is especially popular in forced induction applications, permitting more aggressive combinations of boost, compression ratios and tuning. It is also less costly per-gallon than high-octane racing gasoline. That said, fuel usage increases 30-35% to support equal HP, somewhat offsetting the lower cost and requiring the HP rating of all fuel system components, including and especially the HP ratings of the fuel pump and fuel injectors, be reduced by 30-35%.

A crucial consideration regarding whether or not to run E85 is its tendency to rapidly and frequently contaminate and clog/block fuel filters, resulting in significant flow restrictions, which in turn may damage the engine and/or cause premature fuel pump failure. The reasons for filter contamination problems with E85 include:

E85 is an alcohol based fuel, and alcohols are hygroscopic (attract and absorb water from the atmosphere), which can accumulate in and clog fine filter elements.
E85 is an agriculturally produced fuel and, being a byproduct of plant material, there have been indications some of this “bio-mass” can accumulate in, and clog fuel filters.
E85 has very strong solvent properties, like many alcohol based liquids, which will act to strip accumulated debris and residues from transport and storage containers, and the inside of fuel tanks and fuel lines, which in turn accumulate in, and clog fuel filters.
Aeromotive has conducted extensive testing of the 340 Stealth Pump in E85 fuel, achieving 1,000 plus run hours of service life operating at 60 PSI and 13.5 Volts. In testing, it was found a filter service interval that gave good fuel pump service life required a new, down-stream filter be installed every 10 run-hours. It is vital to understand that a blocked filter creates severe flow restriction of pump output, building excessively high operating pressure between the pump and the contaminated element. If the Stealth 340 is allowed to run in this environment, operating pressures between pump and filter can exceed 90 PSI, creating extreme current draw and reduced cooling flow, resulting in rapid failure of the fuel pump motor assembly.

WARNING: If you plan to run E85 fuel you must be prepared to install proper filtration, and maintain it as frequently as every 10 run-hours. If not, Aeromotive does NOT recommend you the use of E85 with the 340 Stealth Fuel Pump. Aeromotive’s new product warranty assures the purchaser their 340 Stealth Pump will be free from defects in material and workmanship for one year from the date of purchase. Fuel pump failure caused by clogged/blocked fuel filters is not the result of any defect in the pump itself, and is not covered under this warranty.

For a detailed look at post-pump filter options and what a good one should be like, please see Aeromotive Tech Bulletin: Post-Pump Fuel Filtration TB-102 here:

http://dev.aeromotiveinc.com/post-pump-fuel-filtration/

For a specific example of the issues related to a clogged post-pump filter, please take a moment to see the Case History File embedded in TB-102 here:

http://dev.aeromotiveinc.com/wp-cont...-Case-File.pdf

- See more at: http://aeromotiveinc.com/frequently-....H8fhs8r7.dpuf

[JeromeS13]

After 500 miles of use, 400 miles on E85 my Aeromotive Stealth 340 pump that came with the boyd tank has failed. If you have any intention of running E85 I would strongly advise against running the aeromotive pump that comes with the tank.

Reading the FAQ for the pump they say it's not designed for e85, but Walbro says the same thing about their tried and true 255 pump and everyone has years of success on high ethanol fuel. I even followed the filtering instructions and haven't reached 10 hours of run time. I'm switching to a Walbro 450.

9.) Q: Can the 340 Stealth Pump be used safely in e85 and how much HP will it support?

A: E85 fuel has become a viable option for street performance enthusiasts in recent years. It has some very significant pros, and equally significant cons, to consider. It does provide higher octane, and lower charge air temperatures, and is especially popular in forced induction applications, permitting more aggressive combinations of boost, compression ratios and tuning. It is also less costly per-gallon than high-octane racing gasoline. That said, fuel usage increases 30-35% to support equal HP, somewhat offsetting the lower cost and requiring the HP rating of all fuel system components, including and especially the HP ratings of the fuel pump and fuel injectors, be reduced by 30-35%.

A crucial consideration regarding whether or not to run E85 is its tendency to rapidly and frequently contaminate and clog/block fuel filters, resulting in significant flow restrictions, which in turn may damage the engine and/or cause premature fuel pump failure. The reasons for filter contamination problems with E85 include:

E85 is an alcohol based fuel, and alcohols are hygroscopic (attract and absorb water from the atmosphere), which can accumulate in and clog fine filter elements.
E85 is an agriculturally produced fuel and, being a byproduct of plant material, there have been indications some of this “bio-mass” can accumulate in, and clog fuel filters.
E85 has very strong solvent properties, like many alcohol based liquids, which will act to strip accumulated debris and residues from transport and storage containers, and the inside of fuel tanks and fuel lines, which in turn accumulate in, and clog fuel filters.
Aeromotive has conducted extensive testing of the 340 Stealth Pump in E85 fuel, achieving 1,000 plus run hours of service life operating at 60 PSI and 13.5 Volts. In testing, it was found a filter service interval that gave good fuel pump service life required a new, down-stream filter be installed every 10 run-hours. It is vital to understand that a blocked filter creates severe flow restriction of pump output, building excessively high operating pressure between the pump and the contaminated element. If the Stealth 340 is allowed to run in this environment, operating pressures between pump and filter can exceed 90 PSI, creating extreme current draw and reduced cooling flow, resulting in rapid failure of the fuel pump motor assembly.

WARNING: If you plan to run E85 fuel you must be prepared to install proper filtration, and maintain it as frequently as every 10 run-hours. If not, Aeromotive does NOT recommend you the use of E85 with the 340 Stealth Fuel Pump. Aeromotive’s new product warranty assures the purchaser their 340 Stealth Pump will be free from defects in material and workmanship for one year from the date of purchase. Fuel pump failure caused by clogged/blocked fuel filters is not the result of any defect in the pump itself, and is not covered under this warranty.

For a detailed look at post-pump filter options and what a good one should be like, please see Aeromotive Tech Bulletin: Post-Pump Fuel Filtration TB-102 here:

http://dev.aeromotiveinc.com/post-pump-fuel-filtration/

For a specific example of the issues related to a clogged post-pump filter, please take a moment to see the Case History File embedded in TB-102 here:

http://dev.aeromotiveinc.com/wp-cont...-Case-File.pdf

- See more at: http://aeromotiveinc.com/frequently-....H8fhs8r7.dpuf

I must be super lucky then... I have nearly 3,000 miles on my setup with 90% of that being e85...

[longislandwrx]

I mentioned this a while back.. Run the DW300 pump, they are the only company that will stand behind their product when it comes to e85... the service life on the others is laughable.

I will try and find my post, but yeah I posted the same thing... 10hrs lol.


here it is...

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post145013

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post145335

[Aero STI]

Boyd should not include the aeromotive pump with the tank because there are numerous better options.

Walbro 450 is the pump for me. Fully E85 compatible, OEM quality, and outperforms all other in-tank pumps.

http://walbrofuelpumps.com/walbro-f9...-fuel-pump-e85

[wallace18]

I am sure they would delete the pump if you asked them to.

[Mechie3]

Any pics of the filler neck attached? Removed my pump to add a vent on the tank and the inside is rusty. Awesome. Considering the Boyd tank now.

[longislandwrx]

Any pics of the filler neck attached? Removed my pump to add a vent on the tank and the inside is rusty. Awesome. Considering the Boyd tank now.

well this is fun to hear. scared to check now.

If it is, I will probably pull it and do a POR coating.

[Mechie3]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...l=1#post224321

Found that. Is everyone else doing the same? Wiring the same as well minus needing to mod the level sender potentially?

[Mechie3]

I should've gone this route a long time ago really.

1: FFR tank didn't even fit in the car. FFR suggested to "just pound it in with a hammer". I did this and the tank folded, creased, and cracked. I had to cut off the corner and reweld it.
2: Fuel pump barely fit inside
3: Lots of stories of leaky seals
4: Fuel fill port is right in the way of the coolant lines coming off the motor
5: Now the inside is rusty

Awesome. :unamused:

[Frank818]

1: FFR tank didn't even fit in the car. FFR suggested to "just pound it in with a hammer". I did this and the tank folded, creased, and cracked. I had to cut off the corner and reweld it.
2: Fuel pump barely fit inside
3: Lots of stories of leaky seals
4: Fuel fill port is right in the way of the coolant lines coming off the motor
5: Now the inside is rusty

I have none/fixed all these issues but I am interested in #5. Is it cuz you did #1 so the consequence was a rusty tank in #5?

[DMC7492]

Yes I have a cup in my tank, I tryed to have a check valve in the bottom. First was a stainless ball about 3/16" but it weighed too much. To get fuel in the cup I had over 2.5 inches in the tank that's about 2.5 gallons. Then I tryed a Vito's ball. It wanted to float and not seal the cup. I settled for a 1/8" hole in the bottom. With the SARDS jet pump. It takes fuel from outside of the cup and dumps into the cup,along with the return fuel from the pump. In about thirty seconds the cup which is nine inches tall is full totally submerging the pump even when the tank has 1 inch of fuel. The gas gauge warning light is on.
I have ran it but not on the street or track yet. That's next month in cart form!
image.jpg
image.jpg

[Mechie3]

No idea. Indy tends to have humid summers (though last summer was great). The welding could have done something but was on the far side of the tank. The walbro fuel pump rusted as well and looks like a barnacle covered cylinder. All I know is that given the odds I'd rather not roll.

[THE FURNACE]

You've got me thinking...

[07FIREBLADE]

Nvm found it its 15* according to metros thread that mechie linked too

[07FIREBLADE]

Question for those that did the Boyd tank swap with the original firewall what degree did you have to bend the firewall to to get the extra few inches of clearance. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

[Wayne Presley]

Question for those that did the Boyd tank swap with the original firewall what degree did you have to bend the firewall to to get the extra few inches of clearance. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

Just cut the horizontal step to 1"on each side then stack the top overlapping and bolt or weld together

[idf]

Question for those that did the Boyd tank swap with the original firewall what degree did you have to bend the firewall to to get the extra few inches of clearance. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

I bent the top section of mine 15 degrees and the bottom section so it was straight. In retrospect a few more degrees of bend would have been better, but 15 degrees worked. I cut about 1 1/4 inches off the bottom edge of the top section.

As have others, I had to reverse the float on the sending unit then turn the unit 180 degrees to make it read correctly and not contact the tank wall.

For the filler I used an RV filler elbow (Gates 24717) off the tank and cut the FFR filler tube for the top section.Fuel filler.jpg

[wleehendrick]

I bent the top section of mine 15 degrees and the bottom section so it was straight. In retrospect a few more degrees of bend would have been better, but 15 degrees worked. I cut about 1 1/4 inches off the bottom edge of the top section.

So glad I decided to go for the Boyd tank when I started my build (a long time ago)! 15deg will still leave a bit of a gap from the tank to firewall; I brought my firewall to a friend-of-a-friend's shop that has a nice big press brake and bent it closer to 20deg; 18-19deg, IIRC.

[FFR-ADV]

Question for those that did the Boyd tank swap with the original firewall what degree did you have to bend the firewall to to get the extra few inches of clearance. I can't seem to find it anywhere.

I left the original shelf in the same place and was able to re-bend it to 13 degrees with the kind help of some generous friends with a large sheet metal brake. The Boyd tank is very nice. Sorry for your gas tank woes Mechie3.

[longislandwrx]

I wish the boyd tank wasn't so small... I don't think anyone ever confirmed or not if the std 33 tank fit the 818.

Mechie you up for it?

[Mechie3]

I wish the boyd tank wasn't so small... I don't think anyone ever confirmed or not if the std 33 tank fit the 818.

Mechie you up for it?

I'm pretty sure that RM1Sepex got a 33 tank by acccident to begin with from FFR and it didn't fit because the filler was on the wrong side and flipping it made it hit the firewall? He (and I) have the original slanted firewall as well, not FFR's new thinner firewall with the horizontal step in it.

I'll email Boyd and see if he'll give me dimensions so I can make a cardboard mockup to test fit. I was planning to ask for a 33 tank with the filler moved to the same location as their existing 818 tank.

edit: I'd also like to see what it costs to add an internal baffle to make it a two compartment tank with a small tank on one side with fittings to work like a surge tank.

[longislandwrx]

I'd also like to see what it costs to add an internal baffle to make it a two compartment tank with a small tank on one side with fittings to work like a surge tank.

I thought about this myself, you could use your lift pump to fill up the smaller compartment, and the return to the larger portion of the tank tank could just be a small hole at the top, remarkably simple.

2016_03_16_15_26_280001.jpg

[Loring]

I thought about this myself, you could use your lift pump to fill up the smaller compartment, and the return to the larger portion of the tank tank could just be a small hole at the top, remarkably simple.

2016_03_16_15_26_280001.jpg

That's how OEM fuel pump assemblies do it, effectively. The entire 'basket' that houses the pump has a check valve in the bottom for the pump to pull from. The return line fills the basket, or in the case of a returnless setup, the regulator is in the basket, which effectively keeps it full (and overflowing, really) at any time. As an aside, I don't have the front dimensions yet, but I was looking around at fuel tank suppliers and found something that might fit.

EDIT: Found it. http://www.ineedparts.com/heavy-duty...jeep-3829.html

[RM1SepEx]

The 33 tank fit in place however the fill wasn't in the right location, it came out of the top of the tank IIRC, I sent it to someone for shipping cost, don't remember who

My new tank "fit" because Tony Z pre hammered the corners. Craig's newest findings have me very concerned. I'm sick and tired of having to redo stuff on this car! I may just bite the bullet and go to a front mounted tank with baffling. Maybe even do two tanks with one in my now empty due to iWire harness center console area.

I'm working on detailing the interior and might need to pull out a rusting fuel tank? Really? BTW the fuel gauge is pretty much useless due to the tank design too.

[billjr212]

I'm working on detailing the interior and might need to pull out a rusting fuel tank? Really? BTW the fuel gauge is pretty much useless due to the tank design too.

I feel weird posting this in Boyd's thread, but here goes anyway.

I think the rusting may *partially* be a one-off issue given Craig's build timeline. I recently opened my tank up after a year on the road to replace the o-rings and there was no sign of rusting inside. Perhaps the extent of rusting is related to the fact that his car isn't on the road, meaning those walls haven't had any consistent film of fuel covering them from sloshing/emptying/refilling the tank.

Also, on the fuel guage, if you bend the arm a bit, it keeps the float from dragging on the front of the tank. The bend that is already in the arm actually makes it fairly accurate once you keep it from dragging.

All that said, if I ever had to pull the interior apart again, I would most likely go ahead and swap to a Boyd tank. I almost pulled the trigger this winter, but decided to give the new o-rings a chance instead. I would consider pulling it apart just to do the Boyd tank if they come out with a design that is full size instead of narrow. I have no need to push the firewall back and hesitate to give up a portion of the already limited fuel capacity.

[RM1SepEx]

I feel weird posting this in Boyd's thread, but here goes anyway.

I think the rusting may *partially* be a one-off issue given Craig's build timeline. I recently opened my tank up after a year on the road to replace the o-rings and there was no sign of rusting inside. Perhaps the extent of rusting is related to the fact that his car isn't on the road, meaning those walls haven't had any consistent film of fuel covering them from sloshing/emptying/refilling the tank.

Also, on the fuel guage, if you bend the arm a bit, it keeps the float from dragging on the front of the tank. The bend that is already in the arm actually makes it fairly accurate once you keep it from dragging.

All that said, if I ever had to pull the interior apart again, I would most likely go ahead and swap to a Boyd tank. I almost pulled the trigger this winter, but decided to give the new o-rings a chance instead. I would consider pulling it apart just to do the Boyd tank if they come out with a design that is full size instead of narrow. I have no need to push the firewall back and hesitate to give up a portion of the already limited fuel capacity.

Bill, the float is mounted in a section of the tank that is about 1/2 as tall as the center portion of the tank, it has no physical way of indicating a level above that upper surface.... how can it be reasonably accurate? I'm guessing there is 3-4 gallons of capacity above that level

[billjr212]

Bill, the float is mounted in a section of the tank that is about 1/2 as tall as the center portion of the tank, it has no physical way of indicating a level above that upper surface.... how can it be reasonably accurate? I'm guessing there is 3-4 gallons of capacity above that level

There is a 90 degree bend in the float arm that is lined up with the step up in the tank. This allows the float to go (at least partially) up into the upper area of the tank to read full. I'm guessing it probably still leaves 1-2 gallons of space past "full" but so do some production cars, so I'm not going to knock them for that. It's more important for it to be accurate at or near empty anyway.