818R At Watkins Glen

[bstuke]

John George driving

[longislandwrx]

Pulling 1.5 Gs at 120. Classic!

[bstuke]

I received a lot of feedback from Jim and John, and it is very exciting to see.

[David Hodgkins]

Bob, awesome footage!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Wow, This is going to be fun. 1.5G+ sustained in corners.
They are going to need a G meter that goes higher.
Will we get setup details like tire size, type, pressures, sway bar and camber settings, for us to use as starting points?

[WIS89]

WOW!

He sure knows his way around that track... Awesome video! This car has a crazy amount of potential.

Thanks for sharing the video. Great driving John; seriously impressive!

Regards,

Steve

[D Clary]

Is the car low on horsepower or did it run out of gear. seemed to stop accelerating at 120mphith a lot more straightaway.

[C.Plavan]

I received a lot of feedback from Jim and John, and it is very exciting to see.

I hope they share with us
I ordered the double adjustable shocks for my 818R- I wonder if they are running those now?

[ehansen007]

Is it me or did he run the exact same lap time on lap 1 and 2? Down to the thousandths of a second? Crazy!

[Mark Dougherty]

yes the car had power issues and did not pull much past 5500
they are running single adjustable shocks
Yes he can run laps that close to each other.
The car seamed to heat sink and the RPM's would drop lower every lap that's for another day.

[Mechie3]

The car seamed to heat sink and the RPM's would drop lower every lap that's for another day.

Do you mean heat soak? As in the intercooler wasn't getting enough air?

[Jim Schenck]

The heat soak was from the bigger turbo being so close to the bigger intercooler, we need to insulate between the two for next time. The slow top speeds are a gearing thing with the 6 speed, 6th is a big jump from 5th and the car doesn't pick up speed very quickly after the 5-6 shift. Some tracks this wouldn't be an issue but Watkins Glen is faster than most. We still were ironing out some things set-up wise but any tuning info is being collected to be shared. Our main goal for this test was to verify the transmission conversion and see if the 6speed would hold this power level, setting the fastest possible lap wasn't the priority so there is still more time that can be shaved off with a little more tweaking.

The shocks are the monotubes that come with the R.

The G2X data lists the fastest lap from the session the entire time when it is added to the video after the fact, so the reason it looks like the first two are the same is because lap one was fastest and it matched what was already on the screen.

[EricScottZehnder]

I'll just leave this here: http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Watkins_Glen

Typical Lap Times (Long Track)
Car / Class Lap Time Sanction / race / Notes
C6 Corvette 2:03 NASA ST2 (Class Record)
993 cup 2:06
996 stock 2:13
GT3 model on DOT's B stock 2:10
GTC3 996 Cups 2:01/2:02 was the norm but 5 car were 1:57 to 1:59
GTC4 (997GT3Cup) 1:54 to 1:56
BMW E36 IP Class racer 2:14.081
Dodge Viper SRT-10 2:05.7 SCCA T1 Class
1969 camaro ls6,6spd,r888 2:10.9
Spec Miata 2:19.988 SCCA record
Nissan 350Z 2:20
1993 Mazda RX7 2:11 on R compound
Volvo V70R Station Wagon 2:30 on R compound
Volvo 142 SCCA/ITB 2:24.5 class record
VW A2 SCCA/ITB 2:26-28 typical race time
FB (SCCA) 1:54.621 class record
DSR (SCCA) 1:53 class record
FA (fastest SCCA) 1:44.771 Qualifying record - Paul LeCain Ralt RT-41
355 Challenge 2:00 - 2:06
Daytona Prototype 1:43 - 1:49
IRL 1:33
Skip Barber R/T2000 2:08 approx. record
Porsche 944 PCA SP2 2:21.8 record
Porsche 944 SP1 2:23+ 2007 Clash
Mazda RX7 SCCA/ITS 2:14 class record
Nissan NX2000 SCCA/ITA 2:17 class record
SRF (SCCA) 2:13.94 class record

[Mechie3]

Well clearly we need to get down to 1:43.

[Santiago]

Too cool.

1.5G is just what's common...he's pulling that all over the place. He pulled 1.6-1.7G from 3:18-3:21 in the video (entering at 100mph and scrubbing down to 95 or so). And all that not looking like he was really pushing a hairy ragged edge. This car already has serious speed and only more yet to tap. Really impressive.

That heat soak problem may be a buzz-kill. Aren't some guys routing their intercooler to the front? Seems promising, since there's tons of space up front.

Best,
-j

[longislandwrx]

The heat soak was from the bigger turbo being so close to the bigger intercooler, we need to insulate between the two for next time.

A Perrin turbo blanket, a thermal dispersant coated intercooler and perhaps some gold tape should/will fix this... ask me how I know.

[BrandonDrums]

Yeah, I've still yet to see enough pics of the engine bay of a fully assembled 818 but I was worried heat soak would be an issue.

Depending on how the intercooler ducting is, it's possible that a turbo heat shield with a ducted chimney could work as well. For the 818S, heat soak will be an issue for when the car is standing still if there's not as easy of an escape through the hoodscoop which is where this thing comes in. It's Subtle Solution's turbo 'chimney' which directs all of the rising hot air around the chimney and out of the hoodscoop when standing still and also ducts air to the turbo helping to keep it cool while driving. A turbo blanket or stationary shield just gets hotter.





As for the 818R, you might need a full-on turbo/ic duct as seen on 2nd Gen MR2's all the time. Moving the intercooler all the way up front unless it's a water to air setup is just going to introduce an insane amount of turbolag. That's far too long of an intake tract by any measure. You're better off moving the intercooler all the way to the back of the car next to the mesh for reverse-induction or introducing more ducting to get air to the intercooler.

Where the engine sits on an 818 is similar to the old MR2's (although not as bad) where the cockpit glass/seats is creating a horrible low-pressure zone. The intercooler on an 818 is going to probably get more reverse flow from behind and below the car up through the top vent above the engine than forwards and down. Being that the IC and turbo sit essentially above the engine, you need a LOT of fresh airflow forwards and down through the intercooler to counter the radiant heat and hot ambient air in the engine bay and that's on WRX/STI.

It's absolutely astounding what the 818 is doing around these tracks but I kinda feel that there's still some more development to be done to address the airflow issues for the intercooler. Anyone have any input or detail about the 818's current engine bay airflow situation?

[C.Plavan]

After seeing this video, I changed my mind and went with the standard 818R shocks instead of the double adjustable. I'm paid in full for my 818R now!!!

I did not want to be a "Pioneer" just yet trying to find the right adjustments on the double adjustable (Plus the $1699 price tag). The current shocks look to be a great baseline. Cant wait!

[David Hodgkins]

This conversation about air flow reminds me; did anyone see RUSH this weekend? (It's a rhetorical question) There are lots of ways to get air, if your willing to start talking about scoops.

[DARKPT]

Wow, 85-125mph is just spooky fast!

[Mark Dougherty]

jim


SSSSHHHHH

he always runs that close

[skullandbones]

Wow, that guy can drive! Would love to hear a first hand report on the handling. I heard a high pitch squealing noise. Is that normal or are the brakes fading and thus the noise? It seemed to be in sequence with the braking.

Also, it looks like there wouldn't be a lot to add as the shocks used came with the kit. The splitter and wing would be add ons and that's about it!

Again, Wow! WEK.

[RM1SepEx]

After seeing this video, I changed my mind and went with the standard 818R shocks instead of the double adjustable. I'm paid in full for my 818R now!!!

I did not want to be a "Pioneer" just yet trying to find the right adjustments on the double adjustable (Plus the $1699 price tag). The current shocks look to be a great baseline. Cant wait!

same reason that I chose to stay with the standard "S" shocks, not willing to put in the autocross development with the double adjustables

[Frank818]

Not much heat soak problems with an AWIC having the radiator in a place where there's a fan, usually just up front the engine's radiator.

Just saying AWIC is also an option for heat soak. Also, water keeps heat dissipation more consistent.

[metros]

^^^I'd like to see comparison of wayne's AWIC.

We're going to get full details of the modifications to use the 6 speed, right?

[FFR-ADV]

Great Driving! Very Great Car!!

Congratulations Jim & John and the whole 818 development team!

[Xusia]

This car just keeps getting better! I'm glad i ordered one. I'm not so glad it's not here yet.

[FFRSpec72]

John,

Challenge car fun factor = 9
818 fun factor = ?

Challenge car factor pucker factor = 10
818 pucker factor = ?

[longislandwrx]

John,

Challenge car fun factor = 9
818 fun factor = ?

Challenge car factor pucker factor = 10
818 pucker factor = ?

SpinalTap-11.jpg

This one goes to 11

[johngeorge]

Tony, My neck is still sore from all of the G-forces, that is 3 days later

818 fun factor = 11 (grip is ridiculous)
818 pucker factor = 8 (how late you can brake is insane)

Here is another video from Saturday. Ive filled my 5GB vimeo limit for this week, more video will upload on Monday.

[Mechie3]

I was thinking for the TMIC instead of the baffles and such FFR provides, making a cover with two round ports on each side to connect to hoses that lead to the wide intakes. The sealed cover would increase pressure on the top side of the IC as air can't simply blow to the side and you can duct air directly to it with hoses.

[C.Plavan]

Looking good!

Which tires are you running now? (widths) (R6's or Yoko's)?

I notice mirrors keep disappearing and reappearing- (center and right side) Any reason? Is the passenger mirror not needed with the center convex mirror on?

[Mark Dougherty]

lol
funny thing about the mirror

[FFRSpec72]

lol
funny thing about the mirror

If anything like the challenge car side mirrors I will take the center mirror any day.

I have mixed feelings about the 818R, I have one on order this year for my daughter track car, just not sure it will have the appeal the challenge car has today. I'm sure it out handles/performs the challenge car, but its like moving into the E30 space where cars are civilized and life goes on.

[Jim Schenck]

The tires on the R are Yokohama Advan slicks, 210/610/R17 front and 240/640/R18 rear. The center mirror John was trying both on and off and probably would have been best mounted either higher or lower as I set it for me and it was just at the exact wrong height for him, the passenger side mirror we broke the stem off during the weekend so it isn't there in the Sunday video, also why we put the center one back on.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Sounds like smoke and mirrors to me.
Great job Jim.

[longislandwrx]

You guys need to mic the exhaust on the next one to really get pulses going.

[C.Plavan]

That's $1600 of race tires! It better be fast!

I guess we will see how long they will last on that light car. Hopefully LONG.

[Jim Schenck]

3 days at the Glen and one at VIR so far and they still look pretty good. We got them cheap since the fronts were old stock (2008) so they ended up almost the same price as the hoosiers we used at NCCAR. We took those hoosiers as backups but never needed them so didn't get a direct comparo but the radial slicks compared to Kumho 710s (a similar comparison) at the Glenn were about 1.2 seconds different on a modded challenge car turning nearly identical times.

[DARKPT]

130+ mph on 5 year old tires, you guys are much braver than I am!

Awesome drive, though!