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Thread: PlastiDip to replace powder coat on chassis?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    PlastiDip to replace powder coat on chassis?

    I found some paint that seems to be very good and lasting quite long on wheels and car paint, according to reviews I've seen. Unless my search on this forum was wrong, I didn't find anything about it yet (here).

    http://www.plastidip.com/
    http://www.dipit.ca/

    What do you think of using this instead of FFR's powder coat?
    You can spray it matte, gloss, any colors you want, basically. There are multiple videos on youtube.

    I was wondering about your opinions.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
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  2. #2
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    No. Unless you want to recoat it often. Powder coating is MUCH more durable and should last the life of the chassis.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Does it mean it may come off from wheels/car paint after some time?
    Or it's cuz the chassis is not the same material as wheels or car paint, so it doesn't stick on it as well?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
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  4. #4
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    ...becuase it can peel off

    It would also be a disaster to even try to silicon and rivit your panels to.

    Olli

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    How about after you rivit and just spray it on after your finished? Just in low traffic areas like the front side of the dash/fire wall??

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    Member RMB's Avatar
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    Go on YouTube and watch some videos of it being removed, it just peels right off. I can't see it lasting very long with road debree hitting it.

    Rob
    God is my cobrapilot!

  7. #7
    Senior Member 68GT500MAN's Avatar
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    When powder coat material is applied and baked properly it is VERY durable (that is why soda machine cabinets are powder coated). I would maybe use this material in the wheel wells in place of bedliner.
    Doug

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    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    A lot of people hate on PlastiDip as it's getting trendy. I'm actually thinking about 'dipping' (actually spraying) my body for a matte or satin finish in a bright color. Once it drys, it reasonable durable for a body coating... If I get tired of it, peel it off and try something new. That being said, it is simply not suitable for the frame, you want something permanent there.

  9. #9
    Member RMB's Avatar
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    I will add, that it is great for bodies. A guy in the Houston Cobra Club just had his body plastidipped. He has a BD, and it cost him $900 to have the body done with stripes, and all chrome to black. The company that did it will repair any fade/crack/tear for 2 years. I haven't seen it in person, but the pics of it looked great.

    Rob
    God is my cobrapilot!

  10. #10
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wleehendrick View Post
    That being said, it is simply not suitable for the frame, you want something permanent there.
    So would you on the wheels, no?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
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  11. #11
    Senior Member Kalstar's Avatar
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    Slightly off topic but might be of help to you....I am painting my 818 frame with roll on rustolum. I painted a rusted car carrier with it 3 years ago, no flaking, peeling, still looking great. I did zero prep, just painted it on. It dryed glossy with no brush marks. This stuff is great. A gallon of rustolum is about $30.00 and there will be plenty left over. Comes in about 10 colors too. Factory Five will powder coat your frame with any color you want so long as it is black.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Yeah I was about to say on that Henry Ford famous statement.
    I mean it's fine in black for me for the color matching I plan (currently!) on doing, but I like being aware of my options too.

    So you won't wrap your frame with your new wrap stuff you became a distributor for?
    Ultimate Premium Plus.

    http://www.rustoleum.ca/
    http://www.rustoleum.ca/CBGBrand.asp?bid=19

    That's the one?
    It's a Canadian co or what?
    Last edited by Frank818; 12-05-2013 at 01:17 PM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  13. #13
    Senior Member Kalstar's Avatar
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    Here is the black gallon....

    http://www.walmart.com/ip/Rust-Oleum...allon/20999047

    But comes in white, silver, couple colors of red, yellow, brown, black, couple colors of blue and green.

    No wraping the frame, way too much work. $30.00 worth of paint and two hours= done

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    Senior Member wleehendrick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    So would you on the wheels, no?
    Sure, that's probably the most popular application of plastidip. It protects the original wheel finish.

    For spraying the body, you would want to get a few gallons and use a sprayer for best results, but for the wheels, just get a rattle can or two.

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    Anybody know what is best paint to touch up FFR's black powder coat? I may add a harness bar etc. on my 818, requiring some grinding/welding.

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    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    So you won't wrap your frame with your new wrap stuff you became a distributor for?
    For the frame: I don't know that I'd feel confident wrap provided a sufficient enough seal to prevent corrosion. I think the only real options are some kind of metal sealer, paint, or powder coating.

    Quote Originally Posted by tmoretta View Post
    Anybody know what is best paint to touch up FFR's black powder coat? I may add a harness bar etc. on my 818, requiring some grinding/welding.
    Black Rustoleum!!!

  17. #17
    Senior Member flynntuna's Avatar
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    This is also a little of topic, but have anyone have any thoughts on Eastwood's internal frame coatings?
    Attached Images Attached Images

  18. #18
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    I have several spots where the FFR powder coat wasn't prepped properly

    My Plan: use my friend's Eastwood powder coat equipment

    http://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-delu...-coat-kit.html

    http://www.eastwood.com/infrared-pow...ng-system.html
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  19. #19
    Senior Member Kalstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    I have several spots where the FFR powder coat wasn't prepped properly

    My Plan: use my friend's Eastwood powder coat equipment

    http://www.eastwood.com/hotcoat-delu...-coat-kit.html

    http://www.eastwood.com/infrared-pow...ng-system.html
    How are you going to bake it? If you are doing the whole frame that is a big oven.

  20. #20
    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    you didn't click on the second link. IR lamps

    I have about a 4 inch by 2 inch area behind the passenger's head on the big tube angling from the roll bar back that wasn't prepped properly... I looked at the PC and it had a rough texture. I was able to scratch it off with a fingernail. I'll sand it down, ground the frame, apply powder using the gun, and use the IR lamp to flow and cure the area. He bought it so that his some could do a motorcycle frame.
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  21. #21
    Senior Member Kalstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    you didn't click on the second link. IR lamps

    I have about a 4 inch by 2 inch area behind the passenger's head on the big tube angling from the roll bar back that wasn't prepped properly... I looked at the PC and it had a rough texture. I was able to scratch it off with a fingernail. I'll sand it down, ground the frame, apply powder using the gun, and use the IR lamp to flow and cure the area. He bought it so that his some could do a motorcycle frame.
    That is awesome, thanx for posting that. I did not know the lamps even exsisted. Great problem solver for me I want to do wheels that are too big to fit in the garage oven.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by RM1SepEx View Post
    I have several spots where the FFR powder coat wasn't prepped properly
    Prepped properly, try zero prep.

    My frame was pc'd over scaly rust. I don't need to mention how pissed I am. The last car I built was featured in a magazine, my GTM will be of the same quality. I can't even put a piece of tape on my frame without the pc coming off with the tape leaveing a big rusty spot.

    FFR, why didn't you sandblast the damn frame????

    I don't know what to do, just go with it. If I would have known I would have had them send it to me in rust, and I would have had it pc'd myself. Live and learn.

  23. #23
    Senior Member StatGSR's Avatar
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    I would be all for using plastidip to paint the body of the 818 and have been meaning to bring dip to light to people here just for that reason, but it is a removable product and not truly intended to protect metal. Plastidip is best compared to a vinyl wrap, it provides a layer of protection (to the coating beneath it) but is intended to be removable. Check out http://www.dipyourcar.com/forums/forum.php to learn alot more about how people use it on cars.

    i would consider Rustbullet or Por15 products in lieu of powder coating though if i had to, lots of people use those products to restore and protect car frames.
    Last edited by StatGSR; 12-06-2013 at 10:04 AM.
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  24. #24
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    por 15 is tough as nails. $180 gallon @ eastwood in gloss black.
    Last edited by carbon fiber; 12-06-2013 at 03:58 PM.

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    Senior Member RM1SepEx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalstar View Post
    That is awesome, thanx for posting that. I did not know the lamps even exsisted. Great problem solver for me I want to do wheels that are too big to fit in the garage oven.
    Wheels are easy, we built a new oven door out of aluminum with insulation between two layers

    the oven door just pulls off, we used the drawer as the inside layer. I think 19s would fit easily

    I did my stock 16s with our extended oven door
    Dan

    818S #17 Picked up 8/1/13 First start 11/1/13 Go Kart 3/28/14

  26. #26
    Senior Member StatGSR's Avatar
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    I should also highly recommend not using any form of Rustoleum, it is all pretty much garbage in my experience regardless of how well you prep. So seriously look into Rustbullet and Por 15 products.

    http://www.rustbullet.com/
    http://www.por15.com/
    Last edited by StatGSR; 12-06-2013 at 11:04 AM.
    05 Outback XT - DD
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  27. #27
    Senior Member C.Plavan's Avatar
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    I have plastidipped a lot of things. I would never use it on the frame. Powdercoat that.
    As for....
    Wheels- Done it. Holds up well. Do a minimum of 5 very light coats. I mean light coats- watch youtube.
    Panels- Works good. I plan on using it on my splash panels- Its rubbery so it will help deflect the rocks my race tires pick up. Easy touch up also.
    Whole car- I have seen them in person. Can be streaky and uneven. I would not try it myself. I have blacked out all the chrome on a car before. Looked great and held up to automated car washes fine.
    Little parts- I use it all the time. You can always peel it off later if you don't like it.
    Thanks- Chad
    818R-SOLD!!!- Go Karted 7/20/14/ Officially raced NASA ST2- 2/28/15
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  28. #28
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Well you convinced me on PlastiDip for all but frame, I have a bunch of ideas now.

    For frame, so Rustoleum is risky? One says it's working, another says no, usually opposite comments mean it's risky, but I'll search around.

    I would want to protect my frame using any method but a pressurized system or industrial system. So by hand or spray cans is what I look for. If anything is good enough for that.

    Oh, Rustbullet uses a brush at the minimum.
    I think POR15 is brush and spray as well. Nice then. I may do it myself, anyway I will have to do something as I foresee frame modifications to fit that VR6 in.
    Last edited by Frank818; 12-06-2013 at 11:58 AM.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  29. #29
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by C.Plavan View Post
    I have plastidipped a lot of things. Its rubbery so it will help deflect the rocks my race tires pick up.
    What's your opinion as a sound deadener? Rustoleum says their product is sound deadening to some extent, but what about PlastiDip?
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  30. #30
    Member RMB's Avatar
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    This might answer some of your questions...

    https://www.dipyourcar.com/FAQ.html

    Rob
    God is my cobrapilot!

  31. #31
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    Yes it was interesting to read, I learned a few things.

    Nothing on sound deadening though, but that's a start.
    The forums may have some answers.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  32. #32
    Senior Member StatGSR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank818 View Post
    What's your opinion as a sound deadener? Rustoleum says their product is sound deadening to some extent, but what about PlastiDip?
    it can work, just google plastidip sound deadening

    that said, not sure its the best product out there and it would depend on what sounds your trying to deaden.
    Last edited by StatGSR; 12-06-2013 at 01:44 PM.
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  33. #33
    Senior Member Frank818's Avatar
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    True.
    I guess for me I have enough information now to know I don't want to get my frame powder coated by FFR.
    Main reason is that I will have some mods to do for sure, then I need something to touch that up. Since I would have something efficient in small quantities, why now increase that quantity, not powder coat and do it myself.
    Frank
    818 chassis #181 powered by a '93 VW VR6 Turbo GT3582R
    Go-karted Aug 5, 2016 - Then May 19+21, 2017
    Tracked May 27/July 26, 2017
    Build time before being driveable on Sep 27, 2019: over 6000h
    Build Completed Winter 2021

  34. #34
    818 builder metalmaker12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carbon fiber View Post
    por 15 is tough as nails. $180 gallon @ eastwood in gloss black.
    Second this, this stuff is great

  35. #35
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    Hey Frank,

    For the frame, I only recommended Rustoleum for touch ups. I would NOT do an entire frame in that. If you want to do it yourself, and want a powder coating alternative, see if there are any guys locally that paint industrial equipment (think garbage trucks, fleet semi-trailers, construction equipment, etc.). The paint they use is much cheaper than POR-15, can be sprayed on, is incredibly durable (just look at the expected use!), and is almost always available in black. Locally, I can get a gallon for around $100 and I swear it's even tougher than powder coating!

    For sound deadening, check out this alternative to Lizard Skin that I found, and plan to use: http://www.hytechsales.com/

  36. #36
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    Hi Xusia,

    Got a name for that paint? I need some.

    Thanks,
    John

  37. #37
    Senior Member Xusia's Avatar
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    I don't. My Father-in-law is the hook up. My suggestion is to find a local place that paints heavy equipment (they probably do [large/outdoor] sandblasting and powder coating too) and go talk to them. The paint is mixed with a hardener - NO thinner - immediately before application. It is only good for short time and cannot be saved or re-used (so only mix up what you need). Sprays on real nice, and sets up like an enamel. And like I said, it's very durable.

    Here's a couple pics of my hubs and dust shields.

    IMAG0459.jpgIMAG0460.jpg

  38. #38
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    Is Rustoleum risky? No worse than any other applied liquid product, prep is everything. Exactly the reason some have problems with powdercoating.

    Do you need an impervious hard coat on the frame that will last longer than other parts of the car? If so, then the expensive paints do the job, too, for more money.

    The "trick" with Rustoleum is prep and sanding between coats, to get a smooth flat finish. It was originally dreamed up in the '90s as an alternative to $8,000 paint jobs requiring $1,000 worth of equipment to spray on liquid paint - with a 60% loss of the paint as it drifted into the air. With paint running $400 a gallon for red in the cheaper grades, you are spraying over half of it away with no application.

    So, of course, the paint and body industry has a huge hate on over roll-on Rustoleum. They shouldn't - it still requires competent prep, bodywork, and sanding, and the results of poor work still telegraph the lack of professionalism. What micro thin layer of paint on top is really biased to the application technique more than being technically superior. It's mostly clear over just enough color these days anyway - another further complication.

    I've used it, it works, so have hundreds of others, Hot Rod Magazine did an article on it which I feel is a fair review: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/b...get_paint_job/

    Painting the frame means prep, and there's a lot of it. It has to be degreased, cleaned, the welds dressed as much as needed, then some kind of primer applied to help the color coat stick. That's no different than any other application, and that's two details the average DIY will make mistakes doing. It's labor intensive - which is most of the expense in a custom paint job.

    Paints that apply directly to bare steel have the primer adhesive ingredients already blended in, or use materials with that ability. I use rust prep spray on coatings, the ones that turn rust into a black inert layer. I've done bike frames, pool ladders, and the roof on my Cherokee, it works. The ladder was the most abusive situation, it soaked in a chlorinated pool six months of the year, and it only rusted where the tubing scraped the upper chine. Basically, it was scratched off - and any paint system will fail in that application.

    Once the rust converter is applied, you might still see where there was some rust, which would be minimal after all the cleaning and dressing with a 3M grit pad. Nonetheless, it tackles that part of the job that would otherwise never be detected by blowing an opaque primer on the tubes - where other paints will eventually fail.

    Mix the Rustoleum of your color choice - there's a choice, you don't have to live with black - 50/50 with mineral spirits. Fill a roller tray, with tubing, use a smooth foam roller about 2 inches wide sold at Big Box. Apply. It's the consistency of milk, go easy. If you choose to apply Rustoleum direct, that's ok, there would be no sanding or additional coats.

    The 50/50 mix dries extremely fast, less than a day and it's rock hard. Straight Rustoleum may take up to a month - the solvent has to vaporize out of the drying film and it takes longer. Heat lamps won't hurt at all, a summer day with temps in the 90's helps a lot.

    The result will be having a repairable coat of paint that is durable on the frame for less than $100. You be the judge.

  39. #39
    Senior Member Kalstar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tirod View Post
    Is Rustoleum risky? No worse than any other applied liquid product, prep is everything. Exactly the reason some have problems with powdercoating.

    Do you need an impervious hard coat on the frame that will last longer than other parts of the car? If so, then the expensive paints do the job, too, for more money.

    The "trick" with Rustoleum is prep and sanding between coats, to get a smooth flat finish. It was originally dreamed up in the '90s as an alternative to $8,000 paint jobs requiring $1,000 worth of equipment to spray on liquid paint - with a 60% loss of the paint as it drifted into the air. With paint running $400 a gallon for red in the cheaper grades, you are spraying over half of it away with no application.

    So, of course, the paint and body industry has a huge hate on over roll-on Rustoleum. They shouldn't - it still requires competent prep, bodywork, and sanding, and the results of poor work still telegraph the lack of professionalism. What micro thin layer of paint on top is really biased to the application technique more than being technically superior. It's mostly clear over just enough color these days anyway - another further complication.

    I've used it, it works, so have hundreds of others, Hot Rod Magazine did an article on it which I feel is a fair review: http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/b...get_paint_job/

    Painting the frame means prep, and there's a lot of it. It has to be degreased, cleaned, the welds dressed as much as needed, then some kind of primer applied to help the color coat stick. That's no different than any other application, and that's two details the average DIY will make mistakes doing. It's labor intensive - which is most of the expense in a custom paint job.

    Paints that apply directly to bare steel have the primer adhesive ingredients already blended in, or use materials with that ability. I use rust prep spray on coatings, the ones that turn rust into a black inert layer. I've done bike frames, pool ladders, and the roof on my Cherokee, it works. The ladder was the most abusive situation, it soaked in a chlorinated pool six months of the year, and it only rusted where the tubing scraped the upper chine. Basically, it was scratched off - and any paint system will fail in that application.

    Once the rust converter is applied, you might still see where there was some rust, which would be minimal after all the cleaning and dressing with a 3M grit pad. Nonetheless, it tackles that part of the job that would otherwise never be detected by blowing an opaque primer on the tubes - where other paints will eventually fail.

    Mix the Rustoleum of your color choice - there's a choice, you don't have to live with black - 50/50 with mineral spirits. Fill a roller tray, with tubing, use a smooth foam roller about 2 inches wide sold at Big Box. Apply. It's the consistency of milk, go easy. If you choose to apply Rustoleum direct, that's ok, there would be no sanding or additional coats.

    The 50/50 mix dries extremely fast, less than a day and it's rock hard. Straight Rustoleum may take up to a month - the solvent has to vaporize out of the drying film and it takes longer. Heat lamps won't hurt at all, a summer day with temps in the 90's helps a lot.

    The result will be having a repairable coat of paint that is durable on the frame for less than $100. You be the judge.
    My thoughts on Rustoleum mirror yours. I was going to sand blast, prime and roll. For well less then $100.00 (including the blast medium) I will have a coated frame that will be more then equal or better then the powder coated frames that are leaving F5R. Thx for posting Tirod, I was starting to rethink my position. Back on course.

  40. #40
    2bking's Avatar
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    Jul 2013
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    I read on these forums about POR 15 and gave it a try. I did the marine wash and metal ready treatment. Its a very brittle finish and tough but it comes off fairly easily when bruised so I have a lot of touch up to do. If I were to use it again, I wouldn't use the metal ready treatment as it rusted the frame and left white deposits which produced a rough finish in the POR 15. The metal ready made the frame look outstanding until I rinsed it off. I actually spent a whole day trying different techniques to eliminate the white deposits and minimize the flash rust.

    For the money spent on POR 15 I expected a much better result. The touch up is being done with Rustoleum and I'm thinking the cheaper way would have yielded a better finish. The next time I'll go with what I know.
    King
    Roadster #8127, ordered 7/12/13, received 9/11/13
    http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showt...4-Coyote-Build

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