Three Bolts: Mk 4 Roadster Build

[Hondros]

Really enjoy your writing style and attention to detail. Keep up the good work!

[MPTech]

Ken,
Thanks! I feel honored that you recognized my suggestions in your post and found them helpful.

Thanks to MPTech on the Factory Five Forum for the advice.

I can tell you that they worked well for me.

I look forward to following your build progress, it's going to be a cool build, I can tell.
I regret that I didn't do a better job of documenting my build, I had a good Build Plan and started a Blog here, but just lost track of documenting it (got too busy building!). I've got TONs of pictures though.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. This forum has been invaluable for great information and they are even better at spending your money.

[carbon-12]

Ken,
Thanks! I feel honored that you recognized my suggestions in your post and found them helpful.

I can tell you that they worked well for me.

I look forward to following your build progress, it's going to be a cool build, I can tell.
I regret that I didn't do a better job of documenting my build, I had a good Build Plan and started a Blog here, but just lost track of documenting it (got too busy building!). I've got TONs of pictures though.

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. This forum has been invaluable for great information and they are even better at spending your money.

Your detailed advice to me was well worth mentioning! Thanks again!

[carbon-12]

This was a frustrating weekend. I started assembling my front suspension, and I made some decent progress, but nothing went smoothly. Some parts were hard to find, others needed to be fitted, others were missing, and I discovered there were more parts yet to buy. I figured there will be down moments like this—and I was right. That's OK. I have a few problems to solve, and starting tomorrow, I'll tackle them one at a time.

Read the whole story on threebolts.com.

[David Hodgkins]

Read this:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/announcement.php?f=2


Advertising

We want to avoid spam generated by promotion teams, public-relations campaigns or any other traffic-hungry webmasters. So please note that our forums aren’t the place to advertise your own site or forums or sites with similar content to ours. TheFactoryFiveForum staff don’t visit your site and spam it with adverts, so we expect the same courtesy in return. You are welcome to link your site in your signature without a slogan.

If you are part of an automobile type site and you want to link it as a relevant part of a discussion, please contact a moderator first and be honest if it’s your own site.

If you wish to advertise at TheFactoryFiveForum, please contact [email protected].

Any forum member who seems to have created their account solely to promote another site will be permanently banned.

[carbon-12]

Read this:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/announcement.php?f=2


Advertising

We want to avoid spam generated by promotion teams, public-relations campaigns or any other traffic-hungry webmasters. So please note that our forums aren’t the place to advertise your own site or forums or sites with similar content to ours. TheFactoryFiveForum staff don’t visit your site and spam it with adverts, so we expect the same courtesy in return. You are welcome to link your site in your signature without a slogan.

If you are part of an automobile type site and you want to link it as a relevant part of a discussion, please contact a moderator first and be honest if it’s your own site.

If you wish to advertise at TheFactoryFiveForum, please contact [email protected].

Any forum member who seems to have created their account solely to promote another site will be permanently banned.

I'm sorry you feel this way. I'm not advertising my external site, since I have nothing to sell. I tried to contribute to this community in my way, but I see that you're not interested.

That's fine. Goodbye.

[MPTech]

David,
Asking, not starting an argument.
What did Ken do wrong?? I read the COCA and didn't see any violation.
He's linking to his build page like I've seen many others roadster builds do and see a few of the 818 guys doing as well.


Ken,
Don't get discouraged with your weekend progress, yes it will go like that, parts missing, mis-labeled, wrong size, needing adjustments, or not as the manual describes / illustrates. Take a deep breath, walk away, grab a beer, move on to another project, whatever it takes, but don't get discouraged, give-up, or quit (and don't throw things (been there too!). You'll figure it out and it will be forgotten as you move on to the next step.
It's ALL fixable and part of the challenge / process. Do a search or post questions here or the other forum. SOMEBODY has probably encountered it before and has a solution. Very few problems are new.

Keep up the good work.

[carbon-12]

David,
Asking, not starting an argument.
What did Ken do wrong?? I read the COCA and didn't see any violation.
He's linking to his build page like I've seen many others roadster builds do and see a few of the 818 guys doing as well.

Honestly, I don't know what I'm doing wrong either, but perhaps I was hasty in just saying goodbye.

OK, I maintain an external site where I'm documenting my work, and I mention this fact, and I link to my site from my posts. But I'm not a vendor of any sort. I have no products to sell or advocate. All I have is my enthusiasm for my kit and the willingness to share it through my writing.

I also realize that I'm joining this community with an already-established culture, and I can imagine that others may attempt to hijack attention away from this forum for their own benefit. I'm not trying to do that. I'm trying to contribute to this community, and I absolutely do not want to start arguments or make waves.

Here's a suggestion. I added a link to my build site in my signature, and I won't link to it again from the body of my posts. This seems a bit odd to me—the web is all about links—but if those are the rules, I'm willing to give it a try.

[carbon-12]

Ken,
Don't get discouraged with your weekend progress, yes it will go like that, parts missing, mis-labeled, wrong size, needing adjustments, or not as the manual describes / illustrates. Take a deep breath, walk away, grab a beer, move on to another project, whatever it takes, but don't get discouraged, give-up, or quit (and don't throw things (been there too!). You'll figure it out and it will be forgotten as you move on to the next step.
It's ALL fixable and part of the challenge / process. Do a search or post questions here or the other forum. SOMEBODY has probably encountered it before and has a solution. Very few problems are new.

Keep up the good work.

Thanks very much for the encouragement. I plan to make some phone calls right now to start solving these problems. Nothing is broken. I just have a few issues which are going to take a little effort to solve. I'll get it done.

Thanks again!

[ehansen007]

Looks all good! Thanks for putting your URL in your sig line.

e

[carbon-12]

I came out of the weekend of work with a couple problems to solve.

I had to get a replacement for the castle nut which goes on the ball joint for the lower control arm on the front suspension. Factory Five sent me the wrong size. After a phone call to their tech support, and I now have a proper bolt on its way.

During the same call, I asked for some information about the remaining parts I'll need to complete the my pin drive IRS (independent rear suspension). Their best advice was to go to a junk yard and pick the parts off an old car—a 1990-97 Ford Thunderbird is a suitable donor.

However, I'm not going to do this. I have no confidence in my ability to evaluate the differential, mounting hardware, and fasteners hanging off the back of a twenty-year-old car. I need expert help.

I called Mike Forte. As many of you know, he has a lot of experience providing these parts to kit builders, and I asked him to put together a package with all the parts I'll need. He and his workers will do the sourcing and reconditioning of the old parts, and I'm sure they'll do a much better job of it than I would.

So, I'm somewhat back on track. I'll be held up on the front and rear suspension work for a couple of weeks while these parts make their way to me, but in the big picture, it won't make a difference. I'll certainly find other tasks to fill the time.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...I'll certainly find other tasks to fill the time.

You can always start fitting, marking and drilling the cockpit and trunk aluminum panels. Just like eating an elephant; it won't seem as daunting if you just take small bites, one at a time.

Jeff

[chopthebass]

Hey Ken,

I have been following this thread and also a little confused! Anyways, I will be keenly following your build and hope to pick up useful tips along the way.

Ian

[FormulaGod]

You can always start fitting, marking and drilling the cockpit and trunk aluminum panels.
Jeff

I almost wish I wasn't so quick with riveting in my "F" panels on day one of my build. In hindsight, I should have waited until more parts and components started coming together. That silicone is going to be a nightmare to remove. Everything else is gonna head off to powder coat after I mock fit everything. That was step one at the build school right after removing the body. There is plenty of great tips learned at the FF build school, and some things that made me scratch my head. For instance, I would surmise that over half of the builds are going to go with the 302 w/basic components. We installed a Roush equipped bad-boy with an intricate electronic and fuel system. I get that they are a sponsor, but it's always best to go with the majority. Not many people are installing a $15k+ engine.

[carbon-12]

You can always start fitting, marking and drilling the cockpit and trunk aluminum panels. Just like eating an elephant; it won't seem as daunting if you just take small bites, one at a time.

Jeff

Heh. “Eating an elephant.” Yes, putting together this kit is just like that.

I plan to take your advice and move on to aluminum work. Last night, I scanned ahead in the assembly manual past the front and rear end work. Next comes “Firewall & Driver Front Footbox Aluminum”. I'll get started on that work tomorrow night.

Tonight, I have the sandblaster and powder coating oven reserved at the TechShop in San Jose, CA. I'm going to work on my technique with some test pieces of aluminum.

[carbon-12]

I almost wish I wasn't so quick with riveting in my "F" panels on day one of my build. In hindsight, I should have waited until more parts and components started coming together. That silicone is going to be a nightmare to remove. Everything else is gonna head off to powder coat after I mock fit everything. That was step one at the build school right after removing the body. There is plenty of great tips learned at the FF build school, and some things that made me scratch my head.

Yep, back in reply #38 on this thread, MPTech said:

My advice is to fit and temporarily affix all of the panels (cleco while initially fitting, then put a couple metal screws to hold it until later).
Build the entire car to gel-coat / go-kart, then you know exactly where all of the panels go, any cutting required and any additional holes for wires, cables, hoses etc.
Don't rivet or finish anything this early in the build. If you have to remove it, it will be a PITA, you might damage / destroy it, and cutting larger holes or trimming can be damn near impossible while still on the car.
Take it from all of the Reality TV car / chopper build shows, there's a very good reason why they do a full build mock-up, then send everything out for paint & powder-coat.

I caught this advice just in time. I only marked and drilled the "F" panels last night, and this was after I had the control arms and shocks mounted up. OK, I needed to remove one bolt from each upper control arm to get my drill in everywhere, but the advice from MPTech implies that we should expect to take things apart and put them back together several times.

Once I had all my drill holes in on the "F" panels, I set a couple clecos, and then attached the panels with screws. It will be easy to take them back off when needed.

I think this is a good way to work with the panels. Leave everything provisional until the last minute, then commit to silicone and rivets.

For instance, I would surmise that over half of the builds are going to go with the 302 w/basic components. We installed a Roush equipped bad-boy with an intricate electronic and fuel system. I get that they are a sponsor, but it's always best to go with the majority. Not many people are installing a $15k+ engine.

I don't know what most people do for engines. I'm going with a 302 myself. I ordered it from The Engine Factory. I got their 302/350 HP Atomic EFI Clutch Package. It was about $13k.

[David Hodgkins]

This was a frustrating weekend. I started assembling my front suspension, and I made some decent progress, but nothing went smoothly. Some parts were hard to find, others needed to be fitted, others were missing, and I discovered there were more parts yet to buy. I figured there will be down moments like this—and I was right. That's OK. I have a few problems to solve, and starting tomorrow, I'll tackle them one at a time.

Read the whole story on threebolts.com.

Choosing Custom Parts

When I attended the Factory Five Racing Build School this past December, the teachers offered suggestions about parts from third-party vendors which augment or replace kit parts. Since I took the class, I've made some buying decisions, and in this post on threebolts.com, I talk about the custom parts I've chosen.

Attachment 25891

I wrote a post on threebolts.com about this wonderfully-detailed advice, and how I intend to change my plans for dealing with my aluminum panels.

Emphasis added.

I've been asked in a PM to explain my reasoning why I've given so much "attention" to this thread so I'll try to explain it further.

I have a problem with people who are attempting to drive people another site. Not just mentioning it, but posting so that I can't understand the thread unless I read the other site. It destroys the flow of the thread. I shouldn't have to read another site in order to understand a thread on this one.

Now the next post is not technically against the rules, but the poster did a great job of getting under my skin with his passive aggression, in one of his very first posts. I let this go before, but now I'll let you know what I was thinking when I read these "points" one by one:

I have my reasons for doing things the way I do.

1. While I think this forum is a wonderful resource, we all know this isn't the only game in town. I know I'm getting into a touchy area, but the facts are as they are. As it stands today, I link to my posts from more than one forum.
Like I'm supposed to back off because we're not "the only game in town"? Really??

2. The content on my site is mine. If I want to mention a vendor who does not support this forum, I am free to do so.
People are welcome to mention non-supporting vendors, there's no rule against that, unless it is deemed to be a repeated way to circumvent rules we have regarding posting examples of non-supporting vendors.

3. In my opinion, the design of information can't be separated from its content. I have full control of how my posts look on my site, including formatting, pictures, typography, etc. That's important to me.
And we want to make sure the threads on this forum make sense, and are not designed to make the reader click out of our site in order to understand it. We're pretty proud of the content here too, especially since an entire community creates it.

4. I write my site for my enjoyment, and I hope other people enjoy it, too. However, if you don't think my content is worth a click on a link, then don't click. Your time is your own, and you're free to spend it as you like. That goes for everyone here, too. I assure you that my feelings won't be hurt if you don't read my site.
I have no problem with this. But AGAIN, if I can't understand a BUILD THREAD because of all the linking to another site, then we have a problem. Read the Code Of Conduct Agreement, where we spell it out.

In summary, I would like to continue posting here, and I have no intention to "drive users to another site" for purposes other than those I've just mentioned, i.e. I don't sell ads on my site, or intend to make a business out of my build or my writing. My Roadster is just a hobby. I hope your community is flexible enough to allow me to do things my way, but if not, please say so, and I'll leave you all as you are with no hard feelings.
So in fact you DO want users to go to your site, but not for the purpose of driving ad revenue. That's fine. Build sites are a great thing, and a great way to document your build. We have forums here for that, and blogs too. But hey, if you're a web guy and want to maintain your own site, great. But don't destroy threads here attempting to get folks to get folks to check out the site or follow you on twitter. This is explained ad nauseum above.

One last point. I don't allow comments on my site in any form, since I want control over every word and pixel which appears there. So, conversations about my posts can only take place outside of my site. I've already had a couple months of wonderful give-and-take with my friends on Facebook, but those conversations are different, since those people know me personally. For the more technical, kit-focused sharing of ideas, this forum could be a place where such information gathers up.
You have your rules, we have ours. This is not a strictly technical forum, and I can assure you many of us have a lot of friends here. There's a lot of humor and sharing of life's events here. Check out Brando's build thread, Mike and Julie's build thread and any of the countless "show n go" threads as great examples of why we self-proclaim ourselves to be one of the best online communities on the 'net.

I still hope that can happen, but I realize this forum is not mine, and I don't make the rules. For now, I intend to continue linking to the posts I write on threebolts.com unless you forbid that, in which case, I'd just stop posting here.
Well, you did change the way you were posting, and are still posting. I appreciate that, and I thank you.

Honestly, I don't know what I'm doing wrong either, but perhaps I was hasty in just saying goodbye.

OK, I maintain an external site where I'm documenting my work, and I mention this fact, and I link to my site from my posts. But I'm not a vendor of any sort. I have no products to sell or advocate. All I have is my enthusiasm for my kit and the willingness to share it through my writing.

I also realize that I'm joining this community with an already-established culture, and I can imagine that others may attempt to hijack attention away from this forum for their own benefit. I'm not trying to do that. I'm trying to contribute to this community, and I absolutely do not want to start arguments or make waves.

Here's a suggestion. I added a link to my build site in my signature, and I won't link to it again from the body of my posts. This seems a bit odd to me—the web is all about links—but if those are the rules, I'm willing to give it a try.

Now, when this was written, and based on feedback I got from other moderators in the Mod forum about you personally, I decided to "let it go". I actually posted a question for you in this thread in an attempt to turn the page (I deleted it temporarily and will re-post it). But I was reminded in a PM that I was admonishing you in one post, and then appeared to completely switch my tone without explanation, so this is my attempt to explain my initial reasoning, and why I decided to drop the issue.

So in short, I see that you have the link in your signature, and that you have been posting in a way that makes it easy to follow along. And I'm good with that.

AND, I'm hoping that this explanation will serve it's purpose for others as to what my reasoning was for my initial intervention and why I now consider the matter closed.

Hopefully this thread can get back on track moving forward and we can all enjoy sharing in your build adventure.

Believe me, and it's been said many, many times before: All the trials, tribulations, drama, blood, sweat and tears will go away the first time you twist the key and hear your monster roar.

[David Hodgkins]

This is the question I posted earlier, and referenced above:

Ken, quick question for you. Are you aware of the difference between standard and pin drive width? I only ask because it will impact your wheel choices. Are you going with pin drive wheels? 15" or 17"? If you are going with pin drive wheels, check out Vintage wheels, a new vendor on the forum.

Good luck with the rest of your build, and keep up the good work.



PS looks like our builds are very much alike. And you're a web guy. We actually have a lot in common!

[carbon-12]

So in short, I see that you have the link in your signature, and that you have been posting in a way that makes it easy to follow along. And I'm good with that.

AND, I'm hoping that this explanation will serve it's purpose for others as to what my reasoning was for my initial intervention and why I now consider the matter closed.

Hopefully this thread can get back on track moving forward and we can all enjoy sharing in your build adventure.

Believe me, and it's been said many, many times before: All the trials, tribulations, drama, blood, sweat and tears will go away the first time you twist the key and hear your monster roar.

I appreciate all your feedback, including the parts I'm not quoting in this reply. I understand that it's a difficult job to administer a forum like this one. As for me, I know I make mistakes, but I'm willing to learn, and I have tried to adapt how I use this forum to fit in better with your accepted norms. I guess I got off to a rocky start, but since you now consider the matter closed, so do I.

Back to the kit talk…

[David Hodgkins]

[carbon-12]

This is the question I posted earlier, and referenced above:

Ken, quick question for you. Are you aware of the difference between standard and pin drive width? I only ask because it will impact your wheel choices. Are you going with pin drive wheels? 15" or 17"? If you are going with pin drive wheels, check out Vintage wheels, a new vendor on the forum.

Good luck with the rest of your build, and keep up the good work.



PS looks like our builds are very much alike. And you're a web guy. We actually have a lot in common!

I know enough about the difference between standard and pin drive width to get out my credit card, but whether that's been to good effect or not remains to be seen.

As for wheels, I have an FIA Pin Drive Wheel Set. I ordered them from Factory Five at the same time as my kit. I had them powder coated black, and I mounted them up with some 15-inch Avon CR6ZZ tires. They're sitting in my garage right now.

I'd be happy to hear feedback on these choices.

wheels.jpg

[MPTech]

My experience (and I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far):
2 years to get my car to gel-coat and registered / licensed. (I lost about 6 months of my build traveling to the Philippines for work).
Before gel-coat I fitted, drilled, clecoed, then used a couple sheet metal screws per row, to temporarily hold all of the aluminum panels in place. I pretty much assembled the whole car without rivets, then licensed it on 4/24/13 and drove it all summer (almost 4k miles!!). It wasn't as pretty as a finished car, but just as fun!
Then at the end of October, I began dis-assembly and re-finishing all of my panels, adding Damplifier, making carpet templates, THEN final assembly: silicon and rivets!
This way I could enjoy the roadster all summer and work out the bugs / make any final adjustments, tweaks, mods during the winter.
It adds a little more time to the build duration, but I did get to drive it for months and it's not going anywhere now (with single digit temps and snow on the ground! just warm up the garage and jump in!)
YES, like eating an elephant, one bite at a time!
Don't get in a hurry, it is over-whelming at times, but stick with it, IT WILL BE WORTH IT!


Here's my final panel assembly post to help motivate you:

I'm finishing up final riveting of my footboxes this week. Pulled them completely apart, sanded them with 200, 400, 800, then gave them a brushed finish with scotch-brite and coated them with Shark-hide. Kind of a pain, but really happy with the results. Also picked up some polished stainless-steel from Shaprios and fabricated some cool heat shields.
I also undercoated the exterior aluminum panels (F-Panels, front & rear splash panels, and footbox floors) with Dupli-color truckbed liner. Really gives it a nice finished look in the fender wells. Make sure you mask it well and cover all holes (rivet holes too!). Sprays on easy, but do yourself a favor and buy a pistol-grip that snaps on the spray can, before your hand and fingers cramp up badly. I also recommend heating up the spray in a bath of hot water for consistent texture spraying.


My newly finished panels:






And the completed footboxes, I coated the exterior panel and the splash guards with the truckbed liner.


with the Stainless Steel heatshields

[SnowCobra]

Ken, I thank you so much for you honest portrayal of your work thus for on your build. It is entertaining and immensely informative. Acknowledging and discussing you're mistakes and troubles takes guts and I commend you for that. I hope that you keep the blog going thought out your entire build. I know it must take a lot of time to maintain but well worth it if it helps as many people with their build as I think it will, including myself.

Thank you,

Ryan

[carbon-12]

My experience (and I've thoroughly enjoyed it so far):
2 years to get my car to gel-coat and registered / licensed. (I lost about 6 months of my build traveling to the Philippines for work).
Before gel-coat I fitted, drilled, clecoed, then used a couple sheet metal screws per row, to temporarily hold all of the aluminum panels in place. I pretty much assembled the whole car without rivets, then licensed it on 4/24/13 and drove it all summer (almost 4k miles!!). It wasn't as pretty as a finished car, but just as fun!
Then at the end of October, I began dis-assembly and re-finishing all of my panels, adding Damplifier, making carpet templates, THEN final assembly: silicon and rivets!
This way I could enjoy the roadster all summer and work out the bugs / make any final adjustments, tweaks, mods during the winter.
It adds a little more time to the build duration, but I did get to drive it for months and it's not going anywhere now (with single digit temps and snow on the ground! just warm up the garage and jump in!)
YES, like eating an elephant, one bite at a time!
Don't get in a hurry, it is over-whelming at times, but stick with it, IT WILL BE WORTH IT!


Here's my final panel assembly post to help motivate you:

Thanks very much for sharing this breakdown of your work. It's very interesting to hear how much you stretched out your final aluminum work. To me, the best part is that you gave yourself a big window to make changes, live on the changes, and then make more changes—all based on your experience in real-world driving situations. This is excellent.

Thanks again for this great information. It really helps me to visualize how to organize the aluminum panel work.

[carbon-12]

Ken, I thank you so much for you honest portrayal of your work thus for on your build. It is entertaining and immensely informative. Acknowledging and discussing you're mistakes and troubles takes guts and I commend you for that. I hope that you keep the blog going thought out your entire build. I know it must take a lot of time to maintain but well worth it if it helps as many people with their build as I think it will, including myself.

Thank you,

Ryan

“Mistakes and troubles.” Yes, I acknowledge those. There are too many to ignore.

In my day job, I write computer programs. Making a correct program involves many, many iterations of finding and fixing problems. After many years in the field, I've realized that I care more about the final result of a project than I do about all the fumbling, failed experiments, and flat-out errors which happen along the way. So it is in my job, so it is on my kit car hobby.

I have every intention of continuing my blog. In my mind, my project is about two things: making the car and telling the story about making the car. I hope you enjoy the reading half as much as I enjoy the writing.

[MPTech]

I hope you enjoy the reading half as much as I enjoy the writing.

YES WE DO!

hope you don't mind me cluttering up your post with all of my lessons learned.
I'm just trying to help a guy out, so you can avoid some of the mistakes I made, because the guys before me shared their experiences so I could avoid some of their mistakes!

You WILL make mistakes. A project this big, they are almost unavoidable! The key to success is how you deal with them and progress forward:
throw in the towel and give up
or
darn, didn't mean to do that, let's see how we can fix it now (and btw, don't forget, ASK US HERE!!! We're here to help and probably been there, done that)

now go drill some holes and cleco some panels together while you wait for your missing parts (I used the panel assembly as filler work while I was working on more fun projects and was stalled)

[carbon-12]

YES WE DO!

Thank you.

hope you don't mind me cluttering up your post with all of my lessons learned.
I'm just trying to help a guy out, so you can avoid some of the mistakes I made, because the guys before me shared their experiences so I could avoid some of their mistakes!

You WILL make mistakes. A project this big, they are almost unavoidable! The key to success is how you deal with them and progress forward:
throw in the towel and give up
or
darn, didn't mean to do that, let's see how we can fix it now (and btw, don't forget, ASK US HERE!!! We're here to help and probably been there, done that)

now go drill some holes and cleco some panels together while you wait for your missing parts (I used the panel assembly as filler work while I was working on more fun projects and was stalled)

All good. I welcome your help. Tonight, I plan to do some powder coating practice tonight on some extra aluminum I bought for testing. Tomorrow night, I'll drill some holes and cleco some kit panels, just as you suggest.

Thanks again!

[bansheekev]

This sounds familiar - I also do software for a living and I have my own company. My alter ego is living in the country, having a small farm (goats, chickens, orchard, etc) and building/modifying cars. I have had the car bug since I was a teenager and have never kicked it. I love my job but away from work don't even think about a computer - give me a wrench, nail gun, shovel, whatever and I am happy. Anything other than sitting on my butt.

With that said, one of the things I have closely kept my eye on during my MKIV build is the law of unintended consequences. Having a firm plan and making every attempt to stick to it. Where I have deviated I consulted quite a few people before committing $ to it to makes sure it wouldn't bite me in the long run or stick me with a bunch of pricey parts that I cannot use. I took the approach of not blazing new ground (take for instance some people doing tilt front ends - NOT) but sticking to qualified and understood setups that would end up in with a known outcome.

Kevin

“Mistakes and troubles.” Yes, I acknowledge those. There are too many to ignore.

In my day job, I write computer programs. Making a correct program involves many, many iterations of finding and fixing problems. After many years in the field, I've realized that I care more about the final result of a project than I do about all the fumbling, failed experiments, and flat-out errors which happen along the way. So it is in my job, so it is on my kit car hobby.

I have every intention of continuing my blog. In my mind, my project is about two things: making the car and telling the story about making the car. I hope you enjoy the reading half as much as I enjoy the writing.

[carbon-12]

This sounds familiar - I also do software for a living and I have my own company. My alter ego is living in the country, having a small farm (goats, chickens, orchard, etc) and building/modifying cars. I have had the car bug since I was a teenager and have never kicked it. I love my job but away from work don't even think about a computer - give me a wrench, nail gun, shovel, whatever and I am happy. Anything other than sitting on my butt.

With that said, one of the things I have closely kept my eye on during my MKIV build is the law of unintended consequences. Having a firm plan and making every attempt to stick to it. Where I have deviated I consulted quite a few people before committing $ to it to makes sure it wouldn't bite me in the long run or stick me with a bunch of pricey parts that I cannot use. I took the approach of not blazing new ground (take for instance some people doing tilt front ends - NOT) but sticking to qualified and understood setups that would end up in with a known outcome.

Kevin

Like you, I'm trying to keep things reasonably simple with my build. Given my skill level and overall mechanical knowledge, I think that “coloring inside the lines” will help me to arrive at a good overall result. I do have some customizations planned (e.g. I plan to add a glovebox to my dash), but I'm trying to keep my dreams from getting out too far in front of my ability.

I am installing an IRS, and my crate engine is configured for EFI—but from what I can tell, rear suspension and fuel delivery are complicated no matter what you do. So those don't count. Heh.

[chopthebass]

and my crate engine is configured for EFI—but from what I can tell, rear suspension and fuel delivery are complicated no matter what you do. So those don't count. Heh.

What EFI system are you planning? I have just started looking into this, and the MSD Atomic is looking favorite.

[bansheekev]

Believe me, knowing how to use software can save you a ton of money. I did my comp dash and under dash filler layout in AutoCad myself and took it to a laser/waterjet place off Central and Lafayette and had them put it on their CNC laser table. One of those hidden talents I picked up early in my career when writing software in a manufacturing environment. Since the CAD work was done (which is way more expensive for them to do than table time) they laser cut everything for something like $150.

I have also done a fair amount of custom sheet metal work. I did a custom computer enclosure for the Coyote, modified the drivers side footbox wall on the accelerator pedal side to give more room, and a number of other custom brackets. A friend of mine works at a fab shop and would bend them on the press brake for me after I had it all transferred to aluminum, cut out, added bending reliefs, and marked bends.

You are always welcome to come look at a mechanically finished IRS car to visually see things that may spur thoughts (routing issues for electrical, brakes, fuel for instance).

Kevin

[chopthebass]

Believe me, knowing how to use software can save you a ton of money. I did my comp dash and under dash filler layout in AutoCad myself

That interesting! I am an Autocad expert so I could probably do the same if I can find a CNC equipped shop in Calgary.

[bansheekev]

Very simple - two layers:

1) Outline of the dash (I had FFR send me a blank dash when I ordered my kit so this was basically just showing what the perimter already looked like.
2) Cutouts - simple shapes including circles, and key'ed circles (i.e. circle with a flat side). I didn't bother trying to do the opening for the glove box in AutoCad - I did that with a jig saw. Wasn't worth the effort to try and digitize the provided template that is by no means symetrical.

Set your 0,0 to a location that the shop can physically zero on while on the table. I had it in the center of the steering wheel opening and they had to move to to a mechanical edge. They converted layer 2 to the CNC program.

Kevin

That interesting! I am an Autocad expert so I could probably do the same if I can find a CNC equipped shop in Calgary.

[chopthebass]

Very simple - two layers:

1) Outline of the dash (I had FFR send me a blank dash when I ordered my kit so this was basically just showing what the perimter already looked like.
2) Cutouts - simple shapes including circles, and key'ed circles (i.e. circle with a flat side). I didn't bother trying to do the opening for the glove box in AutoCad - I did that with a jig saw. Wasn't worth the effort to try and digitize the provided template that is by no means symetrical.

Set your 0,0 to a location that the shop can physically zero on while on the table. I had it in the center of the steering wheel opening and they had to move to to a mechanical edge. They converted layer 2 to the CNC program.

Kevin

Thats really simple. Got me thinking about designing my own dash now...!

[bansheekev]

If you don't have a blank dash already, they an cut a new one out based on layer 1... I'm sure you figured that out already though

Kevin

Very simple - two layers:

1) Outline of the dash (I had FFR send me a blank dash when I ordered my kit so this was basically just showing what the perimter already looked like.
2) Cutouts - simple shapes including circles, and key'ed circles (i.e. circle with a flat side). I didn't bother trying to do the opening for the glove box in AutoCad - I did that with a jig saw. Wasn't worth the effort to try and digitize the provided template that is by no means symetrical.

Set your 0,0 to a location that the shop can physically zero on while on the table. I had it in the center of the steering wheel opening and they had to move to to a mechanical edge. They converted layer 2 to the CNC program.

Kevin

[carbon-12]

What EFI system are you planning? I have just started looking into this, and the MSD Atomic is looking favorite.

MSD Atomic. I got a 302/350 HP Atomic EFI Clutch Package from The Engine Factory.

[carbon-12]

Believe me, knowing how to use software can save you a ton of money. I did my comp dash and under dash filler layout in AutoCad myself and took it to a laser/waterjet place off Central and Lafayette and had them put it on their CNC laser table. One of those hidden talents I picked up early in my career when writing software in a manufacturing environment. Since the CAD work was done (which is way more expensive for them to do than table time) they laser cut everything for something like $150.

I have also done a fair amount of custom sheet metal work. I did a custom computer enclosure for the Coyote, modified the drivers side footbox wall on the accelerator pedal side to give more room, and a number of other custom brackets. A friend of mine works at a fab shop and would bend them on the press brake for me after I had it all transferred to aluminum, cut out, added bending reliefs, and marked bends.

You are always welcome to come look at a mechanically finished IRS car to visually see things that may spur thoughts (routing issues for electrical, brakes, fuel for instance).

Kevin

I am much more comfortable with computers and software than I am with wrenches. In a way, that's what makes this kit a good hobby. Even so, I would like to put my computer skills to some good during this project, and one specific idea is to cut my own competition dash.

As a member of the TechShop in San Jose, CA, I have access to their waterjet cutter. The bed is plenty large enough to cut a dash for a Roadster.

Of course, you need a CAD file to give to the waterjet. I poked around on the net, and I found this link to a collection of files to get me started. Thank you Edward Duncan, wherever you are. I took his competition dash file and made my own. His file didn't include a glovebox. Since I want one, I looked around at some photos, and I drew one in.

I'm happy to share these files. I used Adobe Illustrator to create them, and exported them as DXF, the AutoCAD interchange format. I'll probably change it around some more before I cut it out. I'll post updates if and when I make them.

[carbon-12]

I want the Russ Thompson Turn Signal System on my kit, so I called up Russ and placed my order about ten days ago. I needed to mail him the steering wheel boss from my kit (part #11008), so that, among other things, he could machine in the tabs for the self-canceling system. I also added in a special request. Since I'm planning to use Synergy Series switches from Ron Francis Wiring on my dash (this is the same company which supplies the wiring harness for the Roadster kit), I wanted the turn signal stalk to match. Russ took a look at the web pages for the switches I want, and he said he could turn me a custom piece.

Here's a photo with a close-up of the stalk. I think he did a great job.

turn-signal-detail.jpg

[bansheekev]

Things to think about when doing layout:

1) watch for how much clearance you need at the top for the body and the top hoop. The MKIV bodies are rolled and drop down over the dash.
2) watch for clearances to obstructions behind the dash (such as the vertical support tube for the hoop)
3) give thought to making the dash easily removable for future servicability - the MKIV body is rolled over the dash hoop so screwing the dash to the hoop makes it impossible to remove the dash without removing the body (search the ffcars.com site - there are a number of good designs)

Kevin

I am much more comfortable with computers and software than I am with wrenches. In a way, that's what makes this kit a good hobby. Even so, I would like to put my computer skills to some good during this project, and one specific idea is to cut my own competition dash.

As a member of the TechShop in San Jose, CA, I have access to their waterjet cutter. The bed is plenty large enough to cut a dash for a Roadster.

Of course, you need a CAD file to give to the waterjet. I poked around on the net, and I found this link to a collection of files to get me started. Thank you Edward Duncan, wherever you are. I took his competition dash file and made my own. His file didn't include a glovebox. Since I want one, I looked around at some photos, and I drew one in.

I'm happy to share these files. I used Adobe Illustrator to create them, and exported them as DXF, the AutoCAD interchange format. I'll probably change it around some more before I cut it out. I'll post updates if and when I make them.

[carbon-12]

Things to think about when doing layout:

1) watch for how much clearance you need at the top for the body and the top hoop. The MKIV bodies are rolled and drop down over the dash.
2) watch for clearances to obstructions behind the dash (such as the vertical support tube for the hoop)
3) give thought to making the dash easily removable for future servicability - the MKIV body is rolled over the dash hoop so screwing the dash to the hoop makes it impossible to remove the dash without removing the body (search the ffcars.com site - there are a number of good designs)

Kevin

Excellent advice. Thanks.

When I attended the Factory Five Build School, the teachers suggested we consider attaching the dash with “industrial-strength” velcro. I think it's an interesting idea, but as yet, I haven't looked into it further.